@aterons: Trust me, having played on impossible, Thin men with 6 hp is a world of difference from Thin men with 4 hp, even in vanilla. It's huge when you're on those starting weapons. A sniper rifle, heavy weapon, or shotgun can all kill a 4 hp thin man with a decent roll. With 6 hp, no dice, and with 6 hp it means you can't even 100% grantee their death with 2 hits or a grenade and a hit. It's way way nastier.

Mutons are easier to handle then thin men mostly because you have laser weapons by that point as well as a larger squad. But yea, I agree with you on the point that for the time you meet them thin men are probably the nastiest enemy in the game. Firaxis basically gave them light plasma rifles, instead of the pistols they had before, making them way more lethal.

I find that having grenades for most of my squad is a must against them. Also they reduced the number of enemies you normally get from a spawn point where before you would always get 3 enemies, now there are frequently just 1 or 2 at the start. So that helps at least.

Another thing I recommend is having a MEC, the very first one can be gotten relatively early on and isn't all that expensive. But their main weapon will always kill a thin man if it hits, they can destroy their cover, leaving them open for the rest of your squad, are immune to poison, and both their secondary weapons the fist and a flamethrower are 100% guaranteed to hit and guaranteed to kill a thin man in 1 shot. Granted a basic MEC will get torn the fuck up if you let thin men just shoot at him, so it's preferable to keep him out of their line of sight until he can get to them in 1 turn.

The only thing worse then thin men are crysalids if you meet then while still with conventional weapons. :(

Oh I think they're aware, they were just as horrible back in Enemy Unknown and were the cause of one of my early classic ironman runs in that game when I got surrounded by them and they instantly killed half my troops with flanking criticals. And that was in the first month of the game.

The real problem is they have a huge percentage chance to dodge overwatch fire, they can kill your troops in 1-2 hits, can poison you and if they do ever flank you, it's almost a guaranteed critical hit.

My only advice is they like to bunch up a whole lot in both games, so I usually save a rocket for them, or dump two grenades on a pack of them. The MEC trooper, as suggested would probably help a lot as well, though you'd have to keep him safe as they usually prime targets for them.

Gotta say my major disappointment with the expansion so far is the endgame. This has been a problem with a lot of Firaxis games, where you just snowball and roll over everything with little challenge. It's like they are afraid of people not finishing the game or something, when the entire first 2/3rds of it is all about the challenge anyway. Especially considering how much easier it would be to increase the endgame difficulty in something like Xcom compared to a more dynamic experience like Civ.

They have not changed the last 2 story missions one bit. The final mission was already kind of a disappointment and now when you know exactly what and where the enemies are it's just a snooze. This is exactly what I feared when they started showing the details before release.

I want an epic fight at the end dammit! How hard is that? Make that ship swarm with aliens, make them throw everything and the space kitchen sink at you, at this point all your soldiers are big boys, they can handle it. You should be always outnumbered there, not the other way around. What's 2 lone sectopods at that point? A joke. You can kill them in 1 turn with shots to spare, even in their current buffed state. Why are you getting attacked by 3 crysalids, when this is what you fight in month 2 with conventional weapons, now 12-16 at a time would have been at least fun to see (if they came from all sides and weren't bunched up for a rocket). 2 muton elites, dude, come on!

Shit they did the base defense just like that! That mission was fun. Why not overhaul the final one too.

As it is all the good fights are still front loaded in the early to midgame, and it's just, disheartening, fuck man, it's the kind of shit that puts me off multiple playthroughts :(

I'm having a lot of fun. Got destroyed on an Ironman Classic run on the first EXALT mission. So I fell back to Normal. I'm past the early-game hump, so I think it'll be relatively smooth sailing until the not-Wolverine Mutons and Sectopods show up.

I still think there should be some sort of difficulty level between Normal and Classic. I'd love to play with Classic's supposedly "unshackled" AI, and the bonuses present in Normal. But turning on some of the Second Wave options spiced things up a bit.

Also, it's damn fun to punch a Chryssalid in the face with a MEC.

Yeah I wish there was like a normal + difficulty as well!

I said this when Enemy Unknown came out. The jump from Normal to Classic is significant enough that they probably could've shoved another difficulty between them.

Yeah, there needs to be an intermediary difficulty between Normal and Classic, to ease players into Classic. Like, give the alien units all the buffs they have in Classic, but don't hobble the player in all the ways that Classic hobbles the player's resources and base. Or vice versa, with the same weaksauce aliens as Normal but all the resource restrictions that Classic imposes on you.

And then remove Easy difficulty, because what are you doing with your life if you played the game on that difficulty level. It doesn't really have many differences from Normal anyways, aside from giving you even sillier amounts of money than Normal, and having even fewer enemies in each mission than Normal.

Yeah, having finished my first normal campaign last night, I was a bit bummed out when I realised that the final mission's enemy spawns are exactly the same. With all the new toys and the fact they literally throw psionic soldiers at you if you complete operation Progeny meant I completely steamrolled through the first 3 rooms without any problem, far easier then I ever did in Enemy Unknown. Only the Sectopods gave me a bit of trouble, but they only lasted 3 turns.

The only change I see is they appear to have changed the AI a little on the enemies in the final room, as my strategy in the original game was to mind control a Muton elite, draw them out and have them walk into a barrage of overwatch fire. It appears they won't leave that room now, and the Ethereal leader will hang out at the back . But even then once I had decided to go all in and storm that room, The unique soldier you get from Progeny has one of the highest Will stats in the game, which can be buffed further with psi armor and psi inspiration, to the point that I could mind control an Ethereal with an 86% chance of success which is insane. Even when things got slightly dangerous when mind control ran out, one blaster launcher and a particle cannon shot was enough to finish the job.

I'm going to attempt a classic run with only 4 soldiers next, which I can already feel could go bad pretty quickly once Exhalt shows up, but at least the game will feel a little more challenging.

Oops, somehow missed this.

Well actually what I meant was how the Outsiders used in XCOM:Enemy Unknown were "fleshed" out in The Bureau. Introduced to be a link between the games, likely when the Bureau was supposed to come out first. It's all like a snake eating itself.

I thought it was an alright game, but a few seams where it's troubled development clearly hampered things. Personally a horror survival game like Outlast makes a lot more sense as an XCOM precursor set in the 60's than what we got. I've said it elsewhere, if near future elite German special forces (arguably premier near as I can find regarding the RL unit) can only manage to die off screen, and your team of GI JOEs (albeit rookies) in full gear are almost TPK'd in their first mission, a few sharply dressed G-men of the 60's better be running most of the time rather than gunning down hordes as most 3rd person shooters demand. It would also play into the psychic powers and the panic game system of XCOM. I would have settled for the X-files vibe that it initially looked like it was going. If you love the universe give it a try, it's a competent game, and you get to kill classic enemies without the dread (it's a bit cathartic), but just know it's OK not great going in.

Started my classic iron man run, had a bunch of full squad wipe missions but still got up to building a mec lady had fun in the one mission she lasted as another squad of rookies died around her, bloody thin men! called it quits after that. I think I may drop down to normal but play with crazy squads or something. still super fun and a huge factor in me probably not bothering with next gen.

Although I haven't finished my first playthrough yet, I gotta say that the game feels a tad too busy now with all the different threads going on. I really wish they would've revamped or completely dropped the main thread and just made Enemy Within it's own campaign. Doesn't really help much that I've played those same missions a ton of times before and they were probably already my least favorite parts of the game. I guess with the mucn more frequent missions at least it forces you to have an even broader stable of soldiers.

Other than that I wasn't expecting to love the MECs as much as I do. They're just awesome, and the fact that you now have the option to make "useless" soldiers into something else is just great. Not too impressed with the mutations though, they should've really taken them just as far as the MECs and not just some minor bonuses. The medals were a nice little surprise, but lacked some explanation. I guess overall I'm a tad torn on the package. Just really wish it was a tad more of an expansion rather than substantial DLC.

Finished my playthrough on Classic. Just in case you guys needed to know, the last mission is exactly the same and still terrible.

I'm really enjoying the new content. Can't wait to start fighting EXALT. I made a point of risking my ass to punch a zombie... totally worth it, even though I have to undo it now, as I got overrun by Chrysalids two turns later. (yeah, I'm a savescummer... but I did turn on the "reseed on reload" option)

The tension with trying to grab the Meld while not alerting every alien on the map at once is fun, too.

But most of all, I love the under-the-hood stuff. So many longstanding bugs have finally been squashed. There are new bugs, of course, but so far nothing as frustrating as alien turns sometimes not ending for minutes after the last movement.

@ares42: The thing is, your soldiers are already pretty powerful as they were, adding mutations, medals, and a second inventory slot as well as new gear already increases their strengths by a lot. If mutations were any more powerful it would be kinda nuts. Plus some of the more expensive ones are still really useful like the stealth skin one and the jumping legs one. Then there are those that are more useful in their utility role or for certain classes, like the bioelectric skin is not only nice to see invisible enemies but also lets you detect any other normal enemy through walls, where you normally wouldn't have vision, +10 aim after a missed shot is great for heavies or assaults that shoot 2-3 times per round, the secondary heart is great to have when playing something like classic+ironman, and +5 aim +5 crit is great for snipers that should be on high ground anyway, etc

MECs are a whole new separate thing. But the meld is an addition to your existing dudes, amongst several other additions to them and it really shouldn't be looked at as a direct counterpart to MECs just by itself.

@arbitrarywater: Yep.

(good fucking god replying to multiple people in 1 posts has been so fucking broken since site redesign)

@tennmuerti: I'm not saying they're not useful, but they sorta lack the awesome-factor. At the moment it isn't much more than glorified medals, while MECs aren't just really cool but they also add a full new class with a different playstyle (and as mentioned, the whole transformation mechanic). It doesn't necessarily need be stronger, just have more impact.

I'm really liking it. I really like the MEC troopers because I like mechs and because punching cyberdisks into cars is awesome. I'm a little worried though, because it has been kinda easy for me so far (on classic.) I took 3 MEC troopers, a shiv and a support on a mission and I pretty much steam rolled everything with no fear. I gotta beat pretty base on my first try at base defense But besides that, it hasn't been too hard. I think i'm ready for my first classic ironman game.

I like it. So many more options on how to customize my dudes.

I'm past the mid-game and just got into MECs. Probably should've done that earlier, but my metagame's been fucked so I only recently have the wherewithal to try it out. Looking forward to punching stuff into stuff.

man, classic ironman is a whole new level of intense, and it's kicking my ass, just had a heartbreaker mission last night, the first Exalt run-in, wasn't prepared for those rockets, I may be looking at another restart, i'll see how the next mission goes, but jesus this game is great. again.

I just had my first run in with Exhalt on classic and I barely scrapped through it.

I then forgot to save and lost my best sniper on an abduction mission after I got swarmed by a barrage of floaters and one got a lucky flanking critical on him.

Really bummed my enthusiasm, so I'll pick it back up tomorrow.

Insofar as Normal+ is concerned, turning on Aiming Angles significantly notches the difficulty higher, I've found. It's not as huge as the jump between Normal and Classic, and it won't stop you from snowballing, but it will make your chances of losing soldiers after snowballing much higher. Or, maybe I just need to GET GOOD.

I've found Aiming Angles to be a pretty even trade-off, honestly, since you get the benefits as well. I think it definitely enhances the game overall either way.

Let's see... little disappointed with mutations, but I suppose they couldn't really make them *too* powerful since they're addons. MEC troopers are amazing though. Rocket punching a chryssalid into a car that then explodes and kills two of his friends never gets old. I probably relied on the "hit things with your rocket fist" strategy too much, as it started going real bad for me when cyberdiscs showed up.

The medals are a nice addition. Thin Men are now pure evil. Site Recon is the best mission ever. I wish covert operatives had some more interesting abilities. All they can really do is hack EXALT comms which, while really useful, is still boring.

LOVIN' IT

I kind of hope they port this to PS4. My reasons for getting it on PC are pretty dumb. I dont want to redownload enemy unknown + this, and I want to play it on my TV, but have no desire to go through that hassle with my PC. Like I said my reasons are dumb, but I would totally give them my money again.

For those having issues with Exalt. When are you guys encountering them? What level of tech do you have?

During my classic/ironman game I first met them in middle of the third month, by which time most of my dudes had laser tech, while Exalt came in with conventional weapons. Combine that with the ability of your operative to completely shutdown Exalt for 1 turn, several times, and they were kind of pushovers. Sure they come in large numbers, but that just makes all your area of effect abilities even more effective, rockets, grenades, flamethrowers, cars (which should be part of an efficient arsenal anyway). I was frequently able to hit 3-4 enemies with a single rocket and those that didn't die were left without cover. Secondly since exalt give you no corpses for research/sale/crafting and no weapon fragments you are free to explode the shit out of them with impunity (their weapons have an insignificant sale profit). As long as you wipe out the first wave in 1 or 2 turns, you can then overwatch for the second wave all around your objective, making it even easier to deal with reinforcements.

PS: Anyone else like the second MEC suit and weapon much more visually, then the last 3rd weapon and MEC suit?

Also I love how badass the German MEC voices sound (female English MEC voices are also up there). And Russian VO for your normal dudes is likewise great, especially with the psychic stuff.

I was ill-prepared to be fair. i can't remember what month it was, i had lasers but i hadn't built the officer training school yet, and i had a few vets out wounded, so i went in with 2 mecs and 2 low rank normal dudes, corporals i think, with nothing but default armor.

the 2 normal dudes were in high cover and hunkered down, and i found out Exalt could use rockets when one shot took them both out. the two mecs managed to take out all the exalt on the map, but it was arduous, and i felt like i had overcome the biggest challenge yet by the skin of my teeth. BUT my agent had been playing it safe and hadn't zapped the pylon things, so then came another wave, and then came the third brutal wave, my agent got out, but my mecs got swarmed and battered.

next time - spacing, armor, and bring more dudes

@hh: Yeah, i guess having lots of rookies/corporals on the first time would do that. I had the same experience on the first terror mission :(

Got an tips for Ironman Classic? I was able to beat it before the expansion but I keep getting whooped the first couple of missions. Should I just push through after losing 10-15 guys in the first month or am I just doing something monstrously wrong?

@twigger89: No, if you are losing that many first month it's better to just restart. You generally want to have a good veteran core going into month 2,3. Soldier abilities and levels make a huge difference.

It's hard to give specific advice, since I don't know what (if anything) you are doing wrong. The general strategies that worked for classic before the expansion should still apply. Maybe you are just being a bit overconfident/aggressive with your moves at the start (as that is the tendency I have after the end of classic games, where you are so much more powerful)? The first few missions should be relatively easy until Thin men start appearing. Before then i usually try to kill the sectoids with normal attacks by flanking if possible, if things miss, then it's grenade/rocket time, to guarantee kills before the end of my turn. A few lost corpses and weapon fragments are totally acceptable to risking your squad dying. Thin men are more dangerous then they were in vanilla for sure and where a lot of the difficulty spike came from for me personally due to them coming in while you are likely still using conventional weapons, a basic MEC fills this niche between tiers nicely, and can guarantee kills with the secondary weapons: a fist or a flamethrower, both are instant kills that can't miss, flamethrower is aoe but the fist makes you able to move farther, just make sure not to just tank everything with the MEC as it will die, and to have a medkit ready because it will take damage almost certainly. I recommend the heavy class for MEC advancement at the start as he has a good defensive bonus and enemies like to concentrate their firepower on MECs anyway (and a heavy doesn't loose stats by being converted to a MEC trooper right at the start). Problem with that is that you also want to have at least one normal heavy soldier remaining for the rockets, so it will not always be possible to convert a heavy.

I have not tested it, but the needle grenade should do 1 more dame then the standard one, so that also may be a good way to fight thin men early on.

Just knocked this back up to classic after trying all the new stuff on normal, and yes the thin mens 4 hp is complete overkill.

@tennmuerti: The first few normal missions are fine, it's when those early council missions start hitting that things get fucked. I've lost a campaign on the first exalt mission (where you capture that dude) and on the zombie mission. I find that getting mec troopers slows down my ability to get the officer training school (as so much cash goes to satellites) that I'm running around with 4 dudes for much longer than normal. I also feel like research is much slower now, so getting out carapace armor or laser weapons can take forever.

@twigger89: Well research times on classic have been increased by 40% for all technologies except the starting ones. Which makes labs actually useful now.

As far as MECs vs. officer school training goes that's a choice you'll have to make yourself, but the MEC facility is only $50 and the first MEC isn't all that expensive. I definitely don't suggest going for meld mutations and a biogenetic lab first, as the upgrades are too marginal/expensive at the start, they are better cost:benefit ratio in mid game and past. Sell corpses, if you have to sell alien power cells (all but 2 that you need for research and generator), sell the nav computers, if necessary sell crafting components (elierium, alloys) but that last one is the extreme option. A money boost early on is more important then having to wait a bit for firestorms later on. And a satellite Nexus can come out on month 4 anyway.

For research, I recommend getting the South America bonus as fast as possible (month 2), it's easy to cover with satellites, and instant autopsies and interrogations help a lot (i also save them for that time on purpose). Personally I start as Europe, always, this way it's easier to rush satellites with a lower budget.

That first exalt campaign extraction mission can be a bitch because of the number of thin men indeed. But it should really help going into it the second time and generally knowing how it's going to go and where/when the enemies will come.

Zombie mission, where did you die, before or after the ship? If it is after the ship, i recommend just setting up shop inside the ship all around the whale and farming the crysalids as they spawn (they spawn 1-2 at a time so a full squad or even a non full one with 1 fist MEC should have no issues handling them). Eventually they stop spawning. At that point you can position your dudes to get out of there with the fastest one on the button (a MEC with a fist again is good for this due to move bonus, or a support). If it's before you even get to the ship, then you need to gear up your squad. A MEC with a fist seriously helps against crysalids, it can take a hit and not die, and it can punch 1 every turn for a 100% kill. A rocket and a grenade wipes a crysalid group a day. (well a turn but I wanted to rhyme). You also don't get corpses from them on that one mission (i think it's to stop people getting so many of them :P) so frag away.

Always go for laser weaponry before carapace armor. With longer research times this is a must imo. Laser weapons increase your killing potential by a shitload and killing the enemy faster means you don't need to take hits at all. Carapace armor is nice but it's not as important. An offensive assault with a laser shotgun can kill anything up to a mutton in 1 turn, a sniper does as much with a head shot. So precise lasers straight after normal lasers, this way you can gear up all but your heaves (who can tough it out for a bit with explosives and a heavy weapon anyway)

That's all I can think of right now.

I had my first encounter with them in the third month. I was in the middle of the transition to laser tech, so I had the rifles and heavy lasers, but not a laser sniper rifle. I did have carapace armour and had a decently leveled MEC with a railgun. The issue I ran into was, as I'm going for Army of Four, it means I don't have the numbers I usually have, and there were two big problems in that made the situation worse.

First it was a hold the encoder mission on the autoshop map and I spawned on the far side of the map away from the garage entrance, with the encoder area directly next to a car with the ring extended round it stopping just before the raised car. This caused some problems as it took 2-3 turns sprinting to get into range of the damn thing. It also meant I was restricted on how many explosives I could use in the ring, as while it certainly would have killed most of them, it also would blow up the encoder, forcing me back and making my potential rewards minimal.

The other big problem was the Exhalt guys spawned directly in that room and outside the garage, meaning that they were in the circle by the second turn, which forced me to rush them, which left my guys dangerously exposed.

I could usually kill any enemies that decided to hang out outside with my Sniper and MEC, but the encoder area had about 4-5 dudes in it that I couldn't do much against at the start. Had to use my run and gun on my assault and operative to get in close, but the first wave of reinforcements usually cause them to get surrounded. I chipped away at their numbers using my heavy's shots and the odd grenade I could, as well as with my MEC and Sniper. Had to push my operative into the circle to stop the hack, but she was still pretty vulnerable to the remaining guys. Fortunately they all focused on my MEC, who thankfully has the aim penalty from the heavy, so none of them could hit him. I also got a good close combat reaction shot as the next wave rolled in.

I got super lucky as I manged to eventually clean them out, with my operative nearly being killed in a grenade blast. The MEC's flamethrower is great at getting some splash damage on them as well as making them run out of cover without blowing stuff up. Managed to finally nail it, after several attempts (Yeah I'm reloading saves, I'm know I'm a monster).

My second run in with them was very different, as I went in with two MEC's with railguns and completely dominated them. Also ran into a weird glitch where one of my guys couldn't get out of a blown up Van.

I also wanted to ask if you had any recommendations on how to beat classic with only four soldiers in a squad, as I can feel it getting pretty rough later on when I run into bigger enemies. I'm thinking having two MEC's with restorative mist with a heavy and either an assault or support in the last slot might be the best plan, but I think that leaves me pretty vulnerable to mind control and the MECS have a high tendency to get badly damaged pretty easily and their aim and ammunition is terrible. Any ideas?

yeh, i've yet to get a handle on that capture mission, it's wiped me out twice, and i've just reached it on my latest game, it's sitting on pause on my tv, the only thing i can think of to try differently now is bring 2 snipers and... back up more?

that zombie mission wiped me out too the one time i played it. farming the cryssalid spawns makes sense, i hope i have the mecs ready in time, if not i might try to... um, back up... more.

Having the benefit of reloading that capture mission several times trying to work out how to beat it, as thin men don't seem to give a fuck about full cover I can tell you if you can survive getting up to the dude, I discovered that all the subsequent alien reinforcements drop at the same place and time when you move him up a certain degree, so I essentially camped their spawn points and overwatched before I moved him up. I'll tell you where they spawn if it helps.

After touching him one thin man will spawn on the roof of the building he's next two, and one will spawn on the bunch of APC's to the left.

After moving him to the edge of the building he's next too a thin man will spawn on the ledge of the next building, and the other will spawn on the truck behind the building you just went through.

Once you move him out of that building, a sectoid and a Thin man will spawn on the roof of the building closest to the evac point. Once you move him into that building it will spawn another sectoid and thin man on that roof.

Hope that helps a bit.

@eternalvigil: Hmmm, I don't quite know, as I have not tried to go for that achievement myself yet. Definitely wouldn't do it on ironman :P

If I had to go for the 4 man squad thing (which now I think i might try at some point) i might go the direction of trying to make most or all of them into MECs. It's a min/max type of situation. If you are limited on squad slots, you spend less on gearing them up. You can then also completely forgo biogenetics, saving money and meld for mechs. It also means that your entire squad will have more HP per person. If your entire squad is MECs instead of 1 or 2 then the concentrated damge to them becomes less of an issue, as they all don't use cover. You can then also combo their upgrades nicely. For example, give everyone fists, this will give you supreme mobility (especially in mid-late game with servo upgrade) as well as having 4 MECs with fists means 4 x guaranteed 12 point damage strikes, which becomes 18 with a later upgrade that can one shot Muton Elites on classic (that's 72 points of 100% hitting damage potential). Then 2 of them have restorative mist like you mentioned, the other 2 have grenade upgrades, that is 4 total long range aoe damage abilities per mission with cover stripping, which for a 4 man squad is super nice and helps with their shit aim. For the last upgrade give everyone of them the electric pulse, with fists and upgraded servos this can be deployed reliably where you want it and having 4 of them means you can completely shutdown all enemy mechanical enemies. You can then also min/max their classes and rank skills, all of them get the repair ability (or extra storage on grenade/medkit dudes if you want), the make a MEC into heavy cover becomes useless so all get jetboots. I would have to think more about the first and last MEC class ability choice in this situation.

You can also lookup the post i made earlier on how they upgrade. Keeping that post in mind, I would upgrade a heavy first, then try to upgrade assaults, and finally corporal snipers (for the massive aim boost) into MECs, you can forget supports as the defense to cover would be wasted.

The only 2 issues I see with this setup are: you need a dude to carry an Arc to capture aliens, but you will convert dudes gradually to MECs anyway so, by the time you get a full MEC squad most of the interrogations except the late game ones can be done, then substitute 1 squishy into the squad each time a new type shows up. Secondly you need a psionic meatbag, this can be solved by making any of the 4 DLC characters into one, just leveling them up and then only using 1 on the final mission.

Finally you can cheese an all MEC squad with second wave options a bit. Aiming Angles would affect the aliens negatively but not you since MECs don't use cover, Absolutely Critical would likewise only really affect enemies that use cover, not MECs (well +10%, but that's peanuts).

Anyway this is how I would do it, as it seems an interesting way to try. This is all theory however and might fail horribly. :D

In your case, since you are already in progress of a game, maybe try converting 1 more dude into a MEC to have 3 in a squad and 1 psionic. Also if you are going to use 2 with restorative mists you can ditch the meat bag support and take something that can destroy offensively like assault/heavy/sniper, you can really go with any combination of them. MEC suit abilities i recommend to take is always fist first, flamethrower is nice at the start of the game but later on it doesn't do enough damage and a lot of enemies become immune to panic, a fist is not only a shitload of single target damage it is a mobility boost, which is super fucking nice. Second tier it's a tossup, I recommend having both restorative mist on one and a grenade launcher on the second, if you plan to include a 3rd MEC either go restorative mist, to then not need a support, or another grenade launcher and you an then not take a heavy. Final ability should always be electric pulse, imo it's no contest, you fight a shitload of mechanical enemies in the second half of the game, and an AoE disable on all of your MECs is sic!, mines can be nice but they have RNG and are situational, electric pulse is not. With electric pulse + upgraded rocket fist on 2-3 MECs you can handle almost any enemy: one shot anything up to muton elites in hp and shutdown cyberdiscs/sectoid MECs/sectopods and have an insane movement range. -> Mindcontrol is not a big deal with fist + upgraded servos, you can be an asshole and punch those psionic nerds to death in one move. For any dude on your squad that isn't a MEC have ghost armor, it still remains an objectively better defensive choice then titan and you can stealth the most squishy dude in the squad if needed. (psionic armor when needed obv.)

@eternalvigil: thanks, that surely will help next time, it would've helped this time if the very first thin man i ran into hadn't critted my ace sniper at max range while she was hunkered down behind high cover. so much for my plan of backing up, the heavy who uncovered him backed out of sight, inviting him to walk into range of the sniper, completely undermining her squad sight protection. Gah!

one more lesson learned.

I might even be ready to turn off ironman, but damn I loved the ironman aspect of my normal playthrough of unknown, those two missions where things went tragically bad are soldered into my memory, and it'd be a shame to remove that element that adds so much to the game.

Now this is hilarious. I've managed to locate the Exhalt base already.

I lost France last month and it was curious what would happen if you accused a country that left the council already, turns out I found their base!

Thanks a lot for the advice. So far I've primarily focused on meld for MECs though I have used a little for genetics, just to buff the fleshbags to make them more viable. Unfortunately, I got flamethrower on my first guy, just to help in the earlier missions when it's pretty useful in clearing out Exhalt/ early alien swarms. My second has a kinetic module and when I build another I'll probably give them the fist as well. I've managed to get Servos and the structured armour as well as the MEC close quarters upgrade as I very early managed to get satellites over Asia getting the cheap foundry upgrades. I gave the two I have restorative mist and I agree the long range 5 damage grenades would be very valuable to have in any future MECs. I've got repair servos in the two I have and I always tech into jetboots as having the added mobility is much more useful. Yeah, on my normal game I played with proximity mines and they didn't seem to be very useful in comparison to the ability to disabling Mech-type enemies.

My first MEC was originally a heavy and he's proven to be a godsend, as most enemies have a really hard time hitting him. My second was a sniper an while she's a little more accurate, she's been taking a massive amount of damage per mission, to the point where she barely survived the Exalt base assault. Do you think I should make another sniper a MEC or do it to a Heavy or Assault? I think two targets that are harder to hit would make my sniper MEC a little safer honestly.

I'm having issues with capturing, I haven't even got one yet, and I'm worried I'm going to hit the point soon when they'll start ramping up enemy strength and numbers. It's what almost killed me on my normal run on the XCOM base defense and I want to hit that mission before it gets flooded by a ton of end game units. The problem the MECs rarely leave any enemies alive after the first shot which means I have to rely on my meatbags, and as it's classic they either manage to miss spectacularly or not do enough to make them stun-able. I'll have to try and use pistol shots some more. Yeah I think the Operation Progeny recruits are my best bet for my psionic.

Huh, didn't think about using the second wave stuff, thanks for the idea.

Yeah, as I went two mists, I've been rolling with a Colonel Heavy and Assault which has been working pretty well. Having 3 rockets (shredder+ rocketer with danger zone) has made crowd control slightly easier. I tend tot use the assault to bait overwatch shots so I can move my MECs up. Yeah I kinda regret getting flamethrower, even with the upgrade, but it's still somewhat useful at clean-up after a rocket impact on a group. I'm probably going to go grenade launcher next, though having 3 restorative mists would make the MECs pretty hard to kill, and I could keep the heavy in to do the AoE duties. Totally agree with you about electric pulse. Yeah, I forgot that 2 MECs with the fist would take out an Ethereal no problem, and their long movement range could mean I could get it in it's movement turn.

Huh, I didn't think Ghost armor was superior to titan, I know it has +10 defense and +6 health but they still seemed a little vulnerable out of cloak. Do you think I could get Mimetic skin with Titan and still be viable (I do lose the grapple, and the skin's cloak only works on certain enemies). Probably going to need Psi armor for the Gollop device, though the unique soldier from Progeny has over 100 will, so she could potentially do it without it.

Again thanks a bunch for the ideas.

As I'm about to hit the endgame on Normal once again, I realized that I never, ever, ever, used a SHIV. Again. Besides the hilarity of making a full squad of those to look like floating toasters to terrorize sectoids in their own ship, does anyone recommend using them on Classic? It feels like a branch of the tech tree that could be useful, if Normal didn't throw so many resources (compared to Classic) my way.

@eternalvigil: For capturing yea you need to use pistols at the end not not kill the aliens. Or explosive damage, which is a number you know. Like a basic grenade will leave a thin man with 1 hp and ripe for capture for example. I also have a support with a rifle suppression usually (but that's in a 6 man squad), which helps shutdown lone aliens at the end, and makes them much less likely to hit anything (i take it over revive). If you want to go even further then bring a flashbang :P

Also shit I just realized I did not post the MEC leveling up tips, or the forum ate that post:

• MEC stat progression with levels is equivalent to a heavy, which means they only get +10 aim over all their levels (minus the first one which they skip as that's when you can convert)
• While MEC troopers loose their abilities on conversion, they keep all their other stats like will/aim/hp
• MEC troopers only get 50% of XP from kills

With that in mind you want ot promote soldiers with a better aim progression later on in their career, promoting a corporal sniper into a MEC trooper will give the MEC a total of +40% aim for example. As opposed to a squaddie sniper who as a corporal MEC trooper will only have +20% aim (10 from sniper squaddie level, 10 from MEC progress).

Ghost armor has +20% defense. Which is much much better then just 4 extra hp of Titan armor at later levels when you soldiers already have their own increased HP. Especially now that all soldiers can have 2 slots and you are free to give chitin plating to anyone you want to make up for hp. But in addition Ghost armor also gives +3 movement, grapple, and stealth is not only defensive but can be used for scouting or for the extra crit% when you shoot out of stealth. A soldier in ghost armor and in heavy cover has 60% defense by default, not counting all the other buffs/abilities/modifiers you can potentially give them.

Mimetic skin and Titan armor is definitely viable, i've used it. But remember it's the most expensive gene mod, meld wise too (which really is the only limitation in later levels). You also have to be much more careful with your positioning as mimetic skin has restrictions on when it works and unlike ghost armor can't be popped as a saving tool after the soldier moved into enemy vision.

You need the armor for the Gollop chamber regardless of soldier stats, it's required. (which is also why i gave my main psionic a mimetic skin)

@ubersmake: Not really. Their supposed use is to sub for soldiers if your good dudes are recuperating or dead. But the resource costs to research them and make them are frankly better spent elsewhere on making your dudes not suck in the first place. If the first SHIV tech was free, ie came by default with the foundry, I could see myself buying one or two in a bad situation and then as a result of already having some getting the later research. You are just so super strapped for cash in the first months on classic, and later your soldiers just surpass them by miles.

Had some better luck now, and got 4 interrogations done, including an outsider.

Thanks for the info on the MEC stat progression, I have a few squaddie snipers lying around, so I'll try to rank them up when I can so I can get that aim buff. I also just got a major assault for a council mission, who had pretty decent stats, do you think having an Assault MEC is worth it, or should I hold out for a heavy MEC to remove the fear of Criticals?

Ok, good to know, I haven't had a chance to get the research for it done yet, so I'm stuck on Titan at the moment, I'll get it when I can. Cash isn't an issue, as I chose Africa first, and I've had real luck getting continent bonuses (I have all of them save one) so I have over 1000 coming in every month, and no Exhalt to steal any of it, so my only restriction is Meld, I think Ghost armor would be the better choice for now.

Ah okay, well that's not a problem.

@eternalvigil: An assault MEC trooper isn't bad especially if he has nice stats. I'd prefer heavies or snipers, but it's no biggie. Remember you can just stop using him later and give his MEC suit to someone else if you want. You are only spending irrecoverable resources on the conversion, the resources spent on the suit are by far the bulk of the cost and can be reused with any other MEC trooper later. So if you want another MEC now and can afford it, i don't see a reason to wait.

flashbang grenade. description says... This grenade-style weapon emits a disorienting flash of light accompanying sounds. Any enemy that can see the blast will be disoriented, suffering severe penalties to Aim and movement. Robotic and psionic enemies are immune.

but the wiki says they have to be caught in the blast.

indeed the thin man who saw it then hit me behind high cover a good distance away for four damage, so what is up with that desciption? my ironman game is about to go south because of this shit.

So I finished up my classic run with only four soldiers last night. Having 3 MECs at the end is more than enough to deal out the damage needed later on. The only unit that gave me real problems turned out to be Sectopods, because they have two shots per turn, rarely miss, and always have a reaction shot in your turn which makes it tricky to get close to use Electropulse. One is manageable with 3 because you can keep him constantly stunned, but on one of my very last UFO crash site missions, I had two sectopods guarding the front entrance of the UFO, and they spread out so I got caught in a crossfire, and then they spawned in 4 Muton elites, which pretty much ended me. In the end I had to reload and completely bypass them by going around the side to deal with them solo.

The final mission was pretty easy, only had trouble with the sectopods, but with the addition of Rift I managed to kill them pretty quickly. The final room was a joke. One rift killed the mutons, and even on classic, Psi armor+ Mind Shield+ Psi Inspiration meant I had nearly an 80% chance to mind control an Ethereal, which was successful. I then just rushed the Ethereal leader and kinetic striked him. Overall, it was much easier than I thought it would be.

@eternalvigil: Good to hear.

I on the other hand just got royally fucked (also started my own 4 man run yesterday) and now have to decide to redo like 3 missions including base defense and Gangplank, or miss out on +4 satellites this month. Apparently as I just discovered to my chagrin the "flight time" of your squad when they are going on a mission, does not count towards the research/build times in the base. Normally it's too small a time to make any difference. But I was cutting it close with my satellites building on the same day but just before the Council report. After I do Gangplank, the satellite manufacture time is suddenly just past the Council monthly report, tho still on the same day >.>

At least leveling a sniper to colonel first and then converting to a MEC trooper worked perfectly. Now I got a damage focused MEC with 110 base aim +medals and sniper MEC ability :P (with 4 possible shots per turn)

I freely admit the early game is the hardest part, even with the MECs. I also sacrificed a lot at the start by selling everything I could afford to lose to get at least 2-3 satellites up a month, and getting the continent bonuses really helped (especially getting Asia pretty early). I also tried my best to get them up about 4 days before the council report. I also left the Alien base assualt pretty late all things considered (about 20-30 days above the average), and it seemed to work out well, as the enemy composition didn't contain any of the later game stuff.

Gangplank is pretty tough at that stage, especially as it's crawling with thin men, but you can cheese it a little with explosives. I saved my medals until the end, just for the added boost for the last mission. Sounds really useful, how do you get 4 shots per turn? Overdrive gets you two, I can see reactive sensors getting you another but I can't think how you'd get a fourth one, unless they shot you again.

@eternalvigil: Yeah, my bad, I meant 3 shots.

It just pisses me off, since even after playing through the game for over 150 total now, this is the first time i get fucked by such an undocumented mechanic. And now have to redo quite a few missions i already did, wasting real time. Because the min/maxer in me just can't accept not deploying any satellites at all in a month instead of deploying 4 and getting more income. Gha , im fucked up!

I'm actually rushing the plot and satellites. Did alien base at the end of 2nd month. Base defense and Gankplank straight after in month 3. Going for a personal record now (since i'm not going to procrastinate like usual waiting and leveling up multiple squads)

@eternalvigil: So I kind of realized that unless one grinds missions for meld, that fielding 4 fully upgraded MEC suits is impossible. And considering you need 1 soldier to be a psionic (and might as well carry around an arc thrower for captures) that i'll just go for 3 MECs.

Chillong is a superb heavy MEC trooper, he has more base hp then anyone and higher aim then a normal heavy of that level too. By piling on as many aim medals as possible on him he can even shoot straight now. I just run him into overwatch shots all the time, with his base defence, heavy mec skill and medals plus overwatch penalty most of the shots miss and those that don't he can just tank and regen.

A sniper MEC with extra storage for ammo combos really nicely with the restorative mist and the overall capacity upgrade, since you are usually shooting a lot with them and are more toward the back so they aren't primary targets. So I went with two of these. With sniper MECs having quite high aim and all the melee options, having just 2 grenades on the heavy MEC is more then enough.

For some reason my rocket punch bugged out and it was 18 dmg unupgraded. With the upgrade it's now 27 dmg, sic! :P