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From #1reasonwhy to #1reasontobe, and 1,600 Comments In-Between

Some thoughts on the fiery discussion prompted at Giant Bomb and elsewhere by a Twitter hashtag meant to raise awareness of sexism in the video game industry.

As with Mirror's Edge, the upcoming Tomb Raider revival was penned by Rhianna Pratchett, and tells the story of how Lara Croft came to be.

A tweet alone cannot change anything, but enough tweets can become a movement, a movement can raise awareness, and awareness can lead to action. That’s the potential power behind #1reasonwhy, a hashtag from this weekend encouraging women members of the games industry to speak up with stories of their own difficulties, and raise needed awareness about industry sexism.

#1reasonwhy is, by design, full of upsetting, troubling, and negative stories about what it’s like to be a woman that’s making video games in 2012, and games writer Rhianna Pratchett (the upcoming Tomb Raider reboot, Mirror’s Edge, Heavenly Sword) figured something more positive would be of use. Thus, the creation of #1reasontobe, a hashtag with reasons why women are part of the industry at this very moment, should continue to be part of the industry, and call attention to the many stories of strong, independent women succeeding in games--or trying.

Here are a few of their stories:

#1reasonwhy is important, but I’m creating #1reasontobe because I’d like female devs to share why they're in games & what they get from it.

— Rhianna Pratchett (@rhipratchett) November 27, 2012

So our children can see women succeeding in tech and games, and not know why it would ever be any different. #1reasontobe

— strange language (@neuralwiles) November 27, 2012

#1reasontobe Because of the jobs I've had in the past ~7 years, the ones where I create game-related things make me the most happy.

— Eve Walter (@MidnightRem) November 27, 2012

Because my daughter plays video games, she loves video games, and she needs role models who have come before her to be strong. #1reasontobe

— CK Burch (@ckburch) November 27, 2012

#1reasontobe Because when you find a game company who values everyone's opinion, you can just concentrate on making phenomenal games.

— Lindz (@lindzart) November 27, 2012

#1reasontobe - After years of work & careers which left me unfulfilled and outcast from so much, I've found a welcome & passionate home.

— Donna Prior (@_Danicia_) November 27, 2012

There is a growing diverse, queer culture that needs more voice, and games can give it to them. Now let us have it #1ReasonToBe

— Mattie Brice (@xMattieBrice) November 27, 2012

#1reasontobe Despite the bullshit, I am able to work constantly with amazing men and women who care about telling great stories

— Lillian Cohen-Moore (@lilyorit) November 27, 2012

#1reasontobe Because most men in the industry are accepting/inclusive/supportive. Don't let the bad apples dissuade you from going for it.

— LM Lockhart (@missdoomcookie) November 27, 2012

And #1reasontobe is that the only way to change things is to be part of the change. #wecandobetter

— Kathleen (@ninjaharlot) November 27, 2012

#1reasontobe When you get feedback from players that your game changed their life in some way, let them be the hero for once

— Tara J. Brannigan (@kindofstrange) November 27, 2012

#1reasontobe Cuz at their best, games push new boundaries in experience, and we're like 0.5% of the way to getting good at that. Define it!

— AngelosLH (@AngelosLH) November 27, 2012

#1ReasonToBe Because my presence here is changing the industry.

— Ceri Young (@Toughlovemuse) November 27, 2012

It’s good #1reasontobe exists. A problem isn’t solved without a solution, and #1reasontobe provides the disenchanted with glimmers of hope we can work towards a better environment. The next step is creating accessible avenues for people to make connections beyond Twitter, which #1reasonmentor aspires towards.

I haven’t done the math, but yesterday’s article about #1reasonwhy probably broke a comments record on Giant Bomb. I stopped reading the thread after it passed 500 or so comments, both because it’s pretty unwieldy in our current system, and I was roundly discouraged by some of the discussion.

Much of the response felt driven by a feeling that talking about #1reasonwhy, and thereby discussing problems women having in the games industry, suddenly means there are zero problems for men. Elevating the discussion of misogyny implies there is no misandry, or so the argument goes. I don’t buy that, and have trouble reasoning with people who continue to peddle it. Bringing up one very real problem does not invalidate other very real problems, but being so dismissive of the argument suggests you aren’t taking the original argument seriously, and instead want to discredit it because you don’t believe it has any merit in the first place. At least be honest.

I do not consider myself a feminist or particularly aligned with the feminist movement. I just know bullshit when I see it, and I'm tired of bullshit that involves the vapid, shallow arguments that crawl out of the comments section of every single website whenever this subject comes out. It feels like the same 50 people are just making dupe accounts across the Internet, and making sure to drown out any real conversation. Those people deserve a chance to be heard, and that includes the larger-than-you'd-think audience of women right here on Giant Bomb.

Maybe I’m just wading into an unwinnable argument, but I wanted to paste a comment that seemed emblematic of so much of the 1,600 comment (and still growing) thread.

I actually don’t have much of a problem with this comment, except for the fact that it was made at all. Video games, like any entertainment medium, are just a hobby to a vast majority of the audience, and their daily lives are filled with concerns vastly more important than the dynamics between men and women in the games industry. That is 100% okay, as there are plenty of things that I enjoy where I’ve done little-to-no research about whether I’m comfortable with all that’s happening behind-the-scenes. Still, you took the time to scroll to the bottom of this article, long after the achievement for a first post was possible, and post a comment that amounts to little more than trolling. There is no opinion here, and we’d all be better off if the discussion, positive or negative, didn’t include pointless derailment.

This isn’t all of you, obviously, and many of you made substantive arguments, even if I disagreed. I suppose the biggest problem I have is with the tone, the dismissiveness, the idea that none of this matters, and that if people only just spoke up at their jobs, engaged with sexual harassment laws (which is hardly the most pervasive issue), changed their attitude, this would just go away. “I have a solution, just grow some fucking balls,” was one comment that stuck out on page 20-something of the comments. There is a reason why it’s not easy to just “grow some fucking balls,” and it’s because of the response these subjects generate, and the seemingly futile nature of having this debate in a public forum. Not to mention that if you’re looking at the current layoff happy climate of the games industry, speaking up about this issue and possibly risking your job if it backfires doesn’t sound like the greatest idea ever.

If you were a woman at a game developer, would you want to speak up after reading that thread, or the countless others that sprouted up yesterday? Twitter is, at least, a place where you can do filtering and hear voices you regard.

“I’ve been watching the #1reasonwhy hashtag on Twitter with an anxious kind of understanding,” said games writer Katie Williams in a blog not long after #1reasonwhy started catching fire. “Like, part of me wants to jump right in and post a dozen of my own experiences, but I’ve also learned what happens if you say that shit publicly: you’re berated, blamed, dismissed. I’ve been there.”

She is not alone, and I don’t blame her for it.

I suspect there's an underlying fear involved in all of this, as well. "What does this mean for the games we love? What if we're okay with how games are made already? Don't ruin them!" Change, while painful, is often healthy, but I'm also realistic. I don't expect drastic change due to market realities--what sells well will continue to sell well, and that includes plenty of dudebro that, hey, I also enjoy playing! You know, even if the Entertainment Software Association does report that 47% of all game players are women. If there's better women representation in development, those people given a bigger voice, it's not going to make the video games you already enjoy go away. But maybe it means video game companies will be more willing to create games for a growing audience who play games because they love games but do not have characters that speak to them. It might not change publishers who release games with women protagonists but don't support them with marketing, but change happens slowly.

Again, it’s weird. I’m a guy, I’ve never had to deal with any of these problems. But I’m willing to admit where there’s smoke, there’s probably fire, and listening is helpful, informative. If you don’t want to listen, you don’t have to. No one is forcing you. Just stop shouting down others who want to.

As with last time, I'll leave you with my own contribution, this time for #1reasontobe.

#1reasontobe Because we need strong female role models, and more of them. It won't solve everything, but it's a start.

— Patrick Klepek (@patrickklepek) November 28, 2012
Patrick Klepek on Google+
1698 Comments
Posted by BD_Mr_Bubbles

@dr_mantas said:

@Jumbs said:

MRAs will once again come out of the woodwork, claim women receive better treatment than men, and thus the cycle continues.

I wish you could install a privilege filter on here.

I wish you would stop mentioning Men's Rights Activists and "privilege" when you really don't understand either. And NEITHER is really relevant to the conversation.

Just fucking stop. Let's just support these women in the game development industry. After all, this is about them.

No need to be negative, dismissive and insulting.

Posted by AlexanderSheen

There's no winning situation in posting here or on the other article, so I'm not gonna touch any of this poison from now on.

Fuck all video games!

Posted by TDot

What about the men!? Won't somebody please think of the men! #misandry2012

Edited by thealexray

@EnduranceFun: You don't know what feminism is at all; you're just parroting a right-wing strawman version of it which barely exists in the real world if at all.

Posted by depecheload

@Deusx said:

#1reasontobe is something I can actually get behind, it's positive and it doesn't generalize men as sexist pigs all over the world. I say good on that.

Neither did the other hashtag, but hey, have fun missing the point. You're good at it.

Posted by Alorithin

I woke up this morning after making 25+ comments in the last thread.

I had spent 4+ hours yesterday reading through the developing stories in the thread.

Here I am again, posting something that matters so little.

Patrick Klepek won't change. The giantbomb community won't change. Twitter wont change.

What's the use.

Posted by JasonR86

Oh boy. I'm going to re-post a response I had in the 'other' "news" article about the hastag nonsense:

"@the_OFFICIAL_jAPanese_teaBAG said:

Jesus Christ at the number of comments here......... why..........

Sexism sells? The ironic thing about this is that all the comments, all the views, all the attention is just going to inform Giantbomb, other websites, and those on twitter to do more of this stuff because page views are pretty great. I know that sounds cynical but...really, over 1K comments don't lie."

Who fucking called it? ME!!!

Posted by biosfear

while I am very grateful you're keeping up the discussion on this and calling out some comments for what they are - ignorant. I take issue with the fact that you make sure to distance yourself from the term "feminist". Like someone else said, all it means is you're for equality for women which is what most people should be. If you care about human rights, surprise! You're a feminist!

Posted by fallen_rock2

@Grimluck343 said:

@fallen_rock2 said:

Wow, create controversy and then report on yourself. That some fucking quality ass journalism right there.

Don't forget to be really disappointed at all the internet trolls you fed in the previous article!

I even missed the fact that he quoted himself on my first read through. Where does this guy get off?

Posted by dr_mantas

@iAmJohn said:

@Brodehouse said:

I long for the day when 'entitled' and 'privileged' used as insults against men are viewed as disgusting as 'emotional' and 'hysterical' are for women. What an incredibly disingenuous way of labeling a human being completely irrelevant. If you call someone 'privileged' on account of their gender, you label their thoughts and feelings completely worthless because of how they were born. I wonder how you would feel if the same happened to you.

Acting like it's not a problem because it doesn't personally affect you, as many people in these comments and the comments from the last story have done and continue to do, is pretty much the definition of being "privileged." Or, to put it another way, an out-of-touch asshole.

Well they are ignorant, then, not privileged. Also, they are so because of who they are, not because they're men, women or monkeys. If simply having an opinion that is different than yours and being a man is what qualifies for asshole, maybe you are a bit out of touch.

Posted by CornBREDX
@pbhawks45: I realize that.  
 
I think you misunderstood my point when I said "women should stand up for themselves..." 
 
What I mean by that is that I am not against them discussing this issue on twitter, creating a hash tag, or Patrick raising awareness for it in an article trying to promote discussion on it. It was a statement of agreement with what Patrick was saying and a mild "for the record I'm on the side of equality." 
 
I suffer from social anxiety, PTSD, and other what not, which have stigmas attached with society at large. Even if it's not the same (it's not), I can sympathize with not wanting to lose a job by raising a fuss over something mild but distasteful that someone just wanted to raise awareness of.
 
So, hopefully that clears things up.
Posted by Turambar

@iAmJohn said:

@Turambar said:

@Milkman said:

@xMrSunshine said:

@iAmJohn:

2. NO victimization of others or use of discriminatory language: Includes but not limited to hateful personal attacks against other users, sexism, or any racist or homophobic slurs or statements. Similarly, you may not release the personal information of another user without their consent.

I'll bet my ass that if a regular user would do something like this it would result in a ban, warning or some other method of punishment.

Patrick did none of those things. He simply presented his comment and presented his rebuttal. He didn't personally attack the user. He didn't release any personal information. It's no different than me quoting your post right now.

I'd say making a focal point within the OP makes a bit different from simply quoting. Identifying the user within the OP also has something to do with it. Mods have deleted threads whose OPs have included such targeted criticisms before, even if they did not include personal insults.

And if they did exactly what Patrick did, then they followed the rules to a T and the mods were wrong to close those threads.

What now?

Then tell that to the mods, and tell the staff to have that rule redefined to prevent mods from carrying out action against similar threads in the future.

Posted by sissylion

@WilltheMagicAsian said:

Yes, more sensationalist articles please. That's what I come to GB for.

Yeah man, nothing's more sensational than acknowledging that women have a place in video games. I'm sick of this thoughtful discussion on sexism in the video game industry and how it's obviously just an attempt at page views.

Next thing you know, Klepek is going to say that racism is bad. The gall of that man.

Posted by Orange_Pork

Damn. AmericanNinja on ultimate blast.

Posted by Milkman

@Enigma777 said:

I don't come to Giant Bomb for articles like these. It's the wrong place for such a discussion in my opinion. Just because you have a soapbox doesn't mean that you have to use it for every little thing Patrick. On the other hand, when there's no news to write about, you gotta take what you can get... even if you gotta scrape the bottom of the barrel. It's a tough line to balance.

If you don't come to Giant Bomb for articles like these, don't click it. I don't come for Giant Bomb for trailers so most of the time, I don't watch them. Some people enjoy the articles and just because you don't doesn't mean they shouldn't exist.

Posted by EnduranceFun

@SharkMan said:

raising awareness is something dumbass. raises your awareness so that when you recognize it happening you do something. derp.

MUH AWARENESS

Everyone must know who already knows so that we can all do something!

Posted by MasturbatingestBear

What I don't get is that the people that are complaining about this article being here are the same people who were arguing in the other story.

These are the kinds of stories that make me glad that Patrick is on staff.

Posted by Dagbiker

@xMrSunshine said:

@iAmJohn:

2. NO victimization of others or use of discriminatory language: Includes but not limited to hateful personal attacks against other users, sexism, or any racist or homophobic slurs or statements. Similarly, you may not release the personal information of another user without their consent.

I'll bet my ass that if a regular user would do something like this it would result in a ban, warning or some other method of punishment.

First, your probably right, if a member wrote a blog and got 1000 posts all arguing with each other, half using derogatory terms, and a third just trolling. Then It would be locked pretty fast.

But Patrick is not a User. He is a Staff member, as much as you may feel that is unfair, he gets privileges members do not. And, although I think it is kind of a bullshit thing to do. Patrick has never been actively mean, in fact he has been nothing but nice to the community, while others, **COUGH** RYAN **COUGH**, have their up days and their down days, Im sure he just wasn't thinking, perhaps, if it bothers you, you could write a nicely worded PM to as to why you think he should remove it.

Posted by Kinapuff

You can kind of start to see why the actual issue at hand isn't being resolved or progressing in any way or form when the main topic of discussion here seems to be 'desperately trying to convince others that patrick is breaking x or y rule'.

I realize the slight hypocritical nature of this post in that I'm not contributing much to the discussion myself, but seriously guys? Fucking pathetic.

Keep up the good work P.

Posted by polymorph

Here here Patrick great read, keep up the good work. I won't wade in at the moment too much beer in me, but this is the sort of stuff I love to read.

Posted by stryker1121

@WilltheMagicAsian said:

Yes, more sensationalist articles please. That's what I come to GB for.

Hardly sensationalist. This was a very positive article, as was the previous one.

Posted by sirdesmond

Although I sort of enjoyed reading the first piece, I'm not really sure Giant Bomb needed another article regarding this topic (especially so soon).

Also, I hate when people use the phrase "strong, independent women" for women with jobs, as if the word "women" doesn't already contain either of those qualities. It's the "you're a real testament to your race" of sexism. An insulting compliment.

Posted by EnduranceFun

@thealexray: Men just can't understand. What, did you take a feminist class in college? Stop berating.

Posted by depecheload

This has made The Guardian, Huff Post, Forbes and NBCNews. So all you misogynist creeps who don't want "sensationalist" stories like this (also, read what that actually means), shut the hell up. This is actual, real news now. So grow up a bit and listen, you're sexist little brains might learn something.

Posted by Jaytow

these.... articles... have... to

... stop.. so ...... ann..oying.......

Talk.... about..... vid....eo ...

Games.....

Posted by Patman99

I hate the term "First World Problems". There is nothing more infuriating when someone just shouts that crap out. Have some damn relativism and actually think what the statement "First World Problems" actually does. Essentially, it categorizes a list of problems that the "Third World" cannot have. In other words, "First World Problems" are generally mundane and have little, if anything, to do with the core pillars of survival (Food, water, shelter). I would argue that even the poorest of people have their version of mundane problems. So not only are you trying to shit on something someone cares about, but you are essentially doing so in a very elitist manner.

Furthermore, attaching "First World Problems" to anything automatically tries to remove that problem of any sort of relevance. This #1reasonwhy and #1reasontobe movements are not really about video games. Rather, they are about sexism. Video games are a passive backdrop. I guarantee the same type of sexism in video games occurs in other facets of life. Sexism is not a First World Problem, it is a Whole World Problem and it is something that some people cannot come to terms with. Now I'm neither female nor a feminist, but I do believe that racism, sexism, and bigotry still exists. While certain feminist movements take the message a little too far, this gaming related movement does not. Read those tweets, and you will see that if nothing else. Some of those tweets (assuming they are not totally exaggerated) state some dark ass shit, something I was too naive to think even existed. The reality is that there will always be scumbags, male and female, but if this movement does nothing else, it should get people to think about how they treat other human beings in general. This self-reflection could potentially stop some sexist acts from occurring.

My point is, do not attempt to diminish this movement, and especially do not slap stupid labels like "First World Problems" onto the cause. It does not make people rethink their stance, if anything it makes them think less of the person who said it.

Posted by Flacracker

@McGhee said:

Perfect. Comment of the Year.

Posted by Dark_Lord_Spam

I truly appreciate the effort, Patrick. As someone who almost never uses his Twitter account, there's no chance I could have heard about this and contributed without your article. It's thought-provoking, yes, and that's something we too rarely get in coverage of entertainment mediums.

At the very least, I'm sure some horizons were expanded, which as far as I'm concerned means you were successful.

Posted by xMrSunshine

@Dagbiker: But if I don't write something nice then maybe I'll get featured in the next article. It could be my first step to being a celebrity!

Or I could make a hashtag on Twitter. Seems to work about as well.

Posted by thealexray

@EnduranceFun: I don't care about what you think, your mind is clearly already made up. I'm just letting you know that everyone is laughing at you.

Posted by Trainer_Red

@Turambar said:

If this was a forum thread made by a user, the mods would lock this thread and direct all discussion to the original one, if it wasn't already locked due to the comments getting out of hand.

EXACTLY.

I'm flagging this because it should be flagged.

Posted by IUMogg

I would think Patrick is a feminist. Feminism is just wanting equal rights for women. I suppose the word has been taken over by extreme wings of the movement, but in general I would think he was.

Posted by marbleCmoney

Thanks for writing these, Patrick. I found the first article particularly enlightening about what some people consider acceptable behavior in a professional environment such as "our lead designer used to yell about there being 'a vagina in the room.'" The fact someone would read that and then say the person should just "grow a pair" is mind boggling to me. That is simply unacceptable.

I agree with some people that instances like that may not have to do with the culture surrounding games, and might exist with similar frequency in other industries. That doesn't mean we, people who consider ourselves part of the gaming community, shouldn't try to take some kind of stand against it. Even if that is simply making it a conversation and making people think about it.

I don't think it's something we should just strive for on the industry side of things either. I'd love to see the broader gaming community decide that throwing slurs around (whatever their nature) is not acceptable behavior online instead of just brushing it off and saying "lol it's the internet, get used to it." But who knows if that will happen anytime soon?

Posted by Xeirus

@Jaytow said:

these.... articles... have... to

... stop.. so ...... ann..oying.......

Talk.... about..... vid....eo ...

Games.....

This IS about video games you dumbass, do you realize that some ladies have jobs and some of those jobs are to make video games?

If you're bored get off the damn article, fucks sake.

Posted by pbhawks45

@biosfear said:

while I am very grateful you're keeping up the discussion on this and calling out some comments for what they are - ignorant. I take issue with the fact that you make sure to distance yourself from the term "feminist". Like someone else said, all it means is you're for equality for women which is what most people should be. If you care about human rights, surprise! You're a feminist!

LIAR! You want to PUT MEN DOWN...or something. Sigh. It makes me sad seeing that you had to explain this point.

Posted by Sharpless

Props to Patrick for being infinitely more civil towards GB commenters than I would've wanted to be.

No matter how many difficulties white males face in the gaming industry, those difficulties will always be relatively minor compared to the difficulties faced by anyone who isn't white or male. (I know race hasn't been a factor in this argument, but it's worth mentioning in the same breath as sexism.) And, I say that as a white male. Louis CK has a great bit about how being a white male is pretty much the best thing in the world, and it's true. We are the dominant force in the western world. We are not persecuted or harassed, generally speaking. Does that mean we don't have valid problems? No, of course not. Everyone has problems. But, let's try to be a little more sensitive to those who get dicked over by society more often than we do. "Privilege" is a profoundly annoying social justice buzzword, but the concept is not without truth. We've got it pretty good. Let's not be a dick about it. It's not about us.

Posted by TDot

@biosfear:

Well there's different types of feminism. Some are really just studying gender in culture and hold up a mirror to why we treat some people differently than others. Hopefully that leads to a better understanding and equal treatment.

Posted by heatDrive88

@pbhawks45 said:

@Bishop113 said:

I know it's a mistake commenting on this crap more because it's just going to go to shit as these discussions always do.

Patrick, I agree with you that it would be nice to have more strong female roles in games, there are a lot out there IMO, but it's pretty clear not as many as there are male protagonists. The problem I have with this and with -most- feminist movements is that it's not about change, it's not about getting the word out and fighting for improvement in respect for women. It's about shock and awe, it's about acting like a victim and blatantly focusing on only a few negative examples whilst ignoring literally thousands of positive examples. This happens in all media and quite frankly, the fact that you are dragging it onto giantbomb instead of giving me actual news on the industry and more insider stuff like you usually do, it just pisses me off. I don't want this melodramatic bullshit on the one gaming site I still visit and if it continues, I'll just stop coming here just like I unfollowed you on twitter. I know that means nothing in the grand scheme of things given you probably have several hundred thousand visits monthly/bi-monthly, but it disappoints me that the site I've been coming to for years is becoming a place I want nothing to do with when you guys talk about this type of shit.

Someone on the last article said this is like a gawker article, just made for click-bait and I agree. Keep this on your twitter and out of this website please.

Peace out, then.

I guess i'll just leave this here for the OP then, but happy trails regardless:

ig·nor·ance

(ˈɪɡnərəns)
n lack of knowledge, information, or education; the state of being ignorant
early 13c., from Fr. ignorance (12c.), from L. ignorantia (see ignorant).

ig·no·rant

[ig-ner-uh nt] Show IPA

adjective

1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.

2. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject orfact: ignorant of quantum physics.

3. uninformed; unaware.

4.due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.

Origin:

1325–75; Middle English ignora ( u ) nt < Latin ignōrant- (stem ofignōrāns ), present participle of ignōrāre to ignore; see -ant

Posted by EnduranceFun

@thealexray: You sure are delusional. Everyone laughing at me for not 'knowing about feminism?' This is one of the most obnoxious things I've read in these articles - truly an accomplishment.

Posted by Shaanyboi

I'm amazed that people are actually using the "white knighting" argument against Patrick or any other male editor pointing out something as blatant as sexism in this industry.

"Hey, we hired a female editor, so now we can discuss sexism in the games industry! Oh, and just to be safe, she's also half-black, half-korean, AND a muslim! So now if we ever need to discuss race issues or religious depiction, we got that covered too."

Posted by Milkman

@EnduranceFun said:

@SharkMan said:

raising awareness is something dumbass. raises your awareness so that when you recognize it happening you do something. derp.

MUH AWARENESS

Everyone must know who already knows so that we can all do something!

Sigh, I really shouldn't bother but out of curiosity....

Do you have a problem with this? Or this? Or this?

Posted by jbuchan76

Sexism = Bad

Twitter = Bad

News story based on tweet = Bad

2nd News story based on tweet = Even more - Bad

Not talking about video games on a video game site = oh so Bad

My 5 comments above = stupid just like twitter and news stories based on twitter. Sexism has been around since man and woman stood upright and took our first steps. It exists in every job, religion, school, politics, relationships, everything. It's not like a virus or a cancer. There is no cure. All we can do is try to avoid it and do the right thing. Treat others as you would like to be treated.

Now i'm going back to shooting dudes in the face .. (CodBlops II) How would people feel if we shot women in the face? (I know i wouldn't like it).

Posted by Cianyx

@BlastProcessing said:

You're sort of right, I'll give you that. But at the same time, there are way more serious things to care about. Are women being lynched by angry mobs of men, whilst they burn a huge male symbol? Anyone's life at stake? No, not really. Maybe if someone came out and said that Cliffy B fondled them in a very wrong way, then I'd take arms against the male oppressor. Until then, I'm gonna play Halo 4.

The same thing could have been said for the African-American civil rights movement: "Well, at least they aren't in slavery anymore, what more could they want?" I'm in no way saying that the two are comparable but there is a reason why the relativist argument is a cop out and unhelpful in discussion.

Not directed at you btw. For a bunch of dudes who'd support gender equality and whatnot, you guys are getting pretty defensive when people talk about gender discrimination.

@Bishop113 said:

Someone on the last article said this is like a gawker article, just made for click-bait and I agree. Keep this on your twitter and out of this website please.

This is really only a click-bait article if you have some vested interest in the topic at hand. It's only as big as you make it out to be

Posted by pbhawks45

@CornBREDX said:

@pbhawks45: I realize that. I think you misunderstood my point when I said "women should stand up for themselves..." What I mean by that is that I am not against them discussing this issue on twitter, creating a hash tag, or Patrick raising awareness for it in an article trying to promote discussion on it. It was a statement of agreement with what Patrick was saying and a mild "for the record I'm on the side of equality." I suffer from social anxiety, PTSD, and other what not, which have stigmas attached with society at large. Even if it's not the same (it's not), I can sympathize with not wanting to lose a job by raising a fuss over something mild but distasteful that someone just wanted to raise awareness of. So, hopefully that clears things up.

Totally! I've dealt with similar issues in the past as well. Apologies if it seemed I lashed out at you, did not mean that at all.

Posted by Terramagi

Oh boy, I see we're in the "somebody disagrees with me on the internet, better shame them publically" phase of this clusterfuck.

Should I get out my pipe and deerskin coat and start boxing people after I deliver their address, Patrick? Will that get you the views and validation you so desperately want? Will that stop these fucking Kotaku articles from appearing in huge letters on the front page?

Posted by Fat_Magnum

I'd say my disinterest in the issue stems not from a perceived invalidity in the original argument but from the fact there's very little I can/would do to "oppose" the apparent prevalence of misogyny in gaming culture, after reading an awareness article such as this that I already don't. Which is to simply be fine with the knowledge that I do my part when involved in gaming communities to demonstrate appropriate civility to anyone I come across, regardless of their status. Inflammatory remarks and proclamations about the perceived wrongness of others would, I think, accomplish significantly less. Besides, as Klepek mentioned, as a male I am in a position that carries with it an inherent disconnect to the issue at hand.

Posted by Sordel

This topic is a classic example of no lose for one side of the argument and no win for the other. Of course sexism is bad, and it's in every gamer's interest that the people who have successful careers in games development be the most talented people rather than the most talented people of a particular gender.

The problem is: the games industry as a whole is in thrall to women. Out of a gaming population that is overwhelmingly male, women are disproportionately represented in games media. Of course no one's saying that women on the development side should pay a price for the simpering "girl gamers" in low-cut tops on the media side. But a woman entering for a career in the games industry should surely have her eyes open about entering a grossly sexist industry, where being a woman is likely to be both a help and a hindrance.

Historically, women entered the games industry later than men, because it was overwhelmingly boys who were playing games back in the eighties and nineties. They will definitely catch up: remember, J. K. Rowling took a gender-neutral name because she was told that boys wouldn't buy fantasy from a female author; as women developers become more successful, no orthodoxy that devalues them can stand.

Posted by thealexray

@EnduranceFun: No, they're laughing at you for running around like a chicken with your head cut off and generally posting dumb panicked things.

Posted by dr_mantas

@depecheload: Stop insulting people.

@EnduranceFun: Keep fighting the good fight.

And for everyone else, they keyword is egalitarian. Feminism is for equal rights with a certain emphasis on women, whichever doctrine you follow, even moderate feminism.

Posted by allworkandlowpay

@depecheload said:

This has made The Guardian, Huff Post, Forbes and NBCNews. So all you misogynist creeps who don't want "sensationalist" stories like this (also, read what that actually means), shut the hell up. This is actual, real news now. So grow up a bit and listen, you're sexist little brains might learn something.

Without taking a side on the matter, I have to point out that this line of thinking is completely falling into the trap of logical fallacies. Your statement is both an argument of authority and argument of the majority. A bunch of news outlet, even popular or prestigious ones, airing time on a story does not instantly invalidate ones criticism about said story's validity or sensationalist tone.