Microsoft Points Are Dead

Microsoft god dammit.

So yeah, I just redeemed a 4200MSP card worth 343 SEK (~$52), and got 583 SEK (~$88) added to my account.

Which means that I've always had roughly 40% off on every purchase on XBL.

How is it better without MSP again?

I never had a problem with the system....80 points equaled a dollar, that was it. It was a needless system, sure, but hardly confusing.

Yup, I was just about buying some new MS points--but better so, at least one can properly judge the price of a game, and there won't be never used leftover points, either...

I live in Upstate New York, to give you an idea.

Tax laws on these cards depend where you live. Some areas do. Since the U.S. has no federal sales tax, it's up to the states. Canada charges federal tax, but most provinces don't, unless their taxes are harmonised, or possibly Quebec.

For Games on Demand titles, when purchasing with cash they add applicable tax, when purchasing with points they do not, as it is assumed that any applicable tax was covered during the points purchase. This is exactly the issue that you've encountered with your Rock Band track.

This really is a "your mileage may vary" issue. Blanket statements where people aren't sharing their geography is not very useful.

Reminds me of the time we had a load of 800 point cards to giveaway at work, and I stole like 3 of them every time I went in. Good, rule-breaking times.

Nope. If it was a 1600 point card, it would be 19.99 or less.

Horrible move.

There's kind of always been a tax though? I mean, they charge you applicable tax on those cards and points purchases too, do they not?

Before now, the points AND the games went on sale. Now only the games go on sale, and that's rarely the case they go on sale. I don't know how I've been screwed. I buy a $20 points card, I pay $20 (or less). Please explain to me how I'm getting screwed.

Fixed in relation to US Dollars. Also fixed the grammar a little.

It's basic math.

[Note: $30 up from $20 is a 50% increase.]

Where are you buying your cards? As far as I've ever seen, standard Canadian Microsoft Point cards are 1,400MSP for $20, or 2,800MSP for $40. That's 70MSP/$1CAD (vs. 80MSP/$1USD). A 1,200MSP ($15USD) game goes up to $17.14CAD. That's a 14% premium for Canadians.

For a currency conversion comparison, it's as though the CAD has been worth $0.875 vs. USD. If you check out this chart, it's been higher than that for most of the Xbox 360 cycle.

If you bought points direct from Xbox.com, it was somehow less efficient (I never understood that), being... I wanna say increments of 500MSP for $7.25CAD, which is about 68.97MSP/$1CAD. You might have gotten a slightly better deal for something like 5,000MSP, but it was still under the 70MSP/$1 point card rate.

I believe I was almost always charged tax on point cards. If you use current Ontario HST (13%), that would be 1,400MSP for $22.60CAD, or 61.95MSP/$1CAD. A total of $19.37CAD for a 1,200MSP game.

I didn't like the disparity either—especially since the CAD and USD were at par for much of this generation—so I usually bought point cards on sale. Even 15% off at occasional Best Buy/Future Shop events would bridge the gap, though I often got better deals than that.

I'm not sure where you saw 1,600-point Canadian cards, or why one would pay $30 for it over the $20 cards. Unless you really, really hate leftover points.

Exactly. At least in the US, people who complained about MS Points are ridiculous. The math is taught to second graders. It's basic math.

The money doesnt go on sale but the games do just the same and you have been screwed all the time by M$ please wake up.

Oh SHIT! Can we have the Microsoft points back!? I want to call them Balmer bucks, I kinda really liked that.

I guess it is better this way. I can't wait to see how much real money I have on the system when I get home, lol.

It's a little worth mentioning that points could have protected them from the vagaries of fluctuations in currency, though it doesn't seem like they took advantage of that.

I used to be anti-points, until a few months ago when Microsoft sold 15 dollar point cards for 5 dollars on sale at their store, and I got 4800 points for the cost of what one 1600 point card would be (20 dollars). No way this real money will do that. People should really understand that the customers are getting screwed by this change. Point cards went on sale regularly, real money will never go on sale.

Considering that the PSN Wallet still makes you spend 5 dollars minimum, I am not so hopeful that Microsoft won't put that arbitrary limit in there, basically making it points without any sort of sales possibility.

Yeah it was clunky, confusing at times, and weird, but as i said, I had about 10000 MS Points and didn't come close to spending what the retail translation cost would have been.

@cybexx: Indeed, that's a relief. Not only were Canadians paying more points per item on the marketplace, but the points themselves were more expensive per dollar even when factoring in the exchange rate.

I'm still not completely sold on this, but that's from my eShop experience. From what I'm hearing this will be more like how Steam handles their currency? I can get behind that.

I also need to download the update and check it out... but that would cut into getting excited for PAX time.

@keres: i assume they dont want to store money for you.. so once you use it up you wont be adding money to a cart, rather paying for things in full.. at least you wont have random scraps of points laying around that youd use for avatar trash cos it was too little for anything else

@keres: i assume they dont want to store money for you.. so once you use it up you wont be adding money to a cart, rather paying for things in full.. at least you wont have random scraps of points laying around that youd use for avatar trash cos it was too little for anything else

@ll_exile_ll: actually they do, in new zealand we have on several occasions now sold 20 dollar itunes cards for 15 dollars.

this may not happen often or be a common world wide thing, but it can happen

Canada sounds like Sweden, only you don't have a UK to buy codes from. And now we won't either. And we have been/will be paying $1.72 per 100 points. Hurray.

Now instead of getting two dollar's worth of points left over, it'll just straight up be two dollars. Hurray.

People save more than two dollars by purchasing a single 1200p game using discounted points cards. For me it's $7.

I predict being less inclined to buy stuff on Xbox Live.

But until then I'll snag some codes while they still exist. Will try to have them last for the remainder of the 360's lifespan I suppose. Probably around the time the Xbox One launches, summer 2014 maybe?

You mean like there are never deals on iTunes gift cards? Oh wait, there totally are..

You mean like there are never deals on iTunes gift cards? Oh wait, there totally are..

I expect us Europeans getting fucked over in the currency exchange even more now.

With points, I could order cards and codes online instead of paying the ridiculous prices in my home country. On Amazon (US), 800 points costs $9.99, on Amazon (UK), it costs £6.87 (~$10.70), while the cheapest I could find where I live equals to $13.50 (the average price is about $15.50). Now, I have to pay using local currency, so I expect double the price on all DLC and other XBLA content from now on.

Real example of this fuckover: Payday 2 costs $34.99 on US Xbox Live, and ~$58 here. Meanwhile, retail price is ~$40.

I hope MS ships lube and knee pads with the new Xbox.

Judging from the beta they do not have a wallet like Steam and PSN.

Yes

Guys, I just want to point at that before the change, an item on the marketplace would cost a flat dollar if it was 80 points. I tried to buy a Rock Band track today that was a dollar before the change, and I only had a dollar in my account. Guess what? That shit now has fucking tax applied to it. So I can't just spend my dollar on a RB track without adding more funds. That is all kinds of fucked.

Yes. On June 1, 2015.

I doubt the "normal consumer" is the kind of person to hold out for those point bargain opportunities. More likely, they see a game they want, and want to play it right way; they pay the standard price for points and potentially end up with points left in Microsoft's system - which is what MS wants of course. For the sort of person that might only buy a few download titles a year, it doesn't make much sense for them to buy points in bulk when a deal comes around if they don't know whether anything will come out for which they can use those points.

Second, in place of getting discounts on points, MS will likely just adopt Steam style frequent sales and price drops. Meaning, for those patient enough to wait for deals, they'll still be paying less for games regardless, except now in a non-obfuscated manner and without worry of having money tied up in store specific currency

"But I get discounts on points" isn't much of an argument for a points system; it's like you guys think discounts will cease to exist in a world without points.

In regards to the people who claim this is bad news, because stores will not not sale cards for less than their face are not paying attention. iTunes gift cards go on sale all of the time for less than their face value. In particular, $50 iTunes gift card will often go on sale for $40-45.

@brackynews said:

@rhythm said:

@ll_exile_ll said:

Why are people so quick to celebrate this? The days of buying a 1600 point card for less than $20 are gone, no retailer will sell something that says $20 right on it for less than $20.

This. Points were brilliant, I *never* paid full price for an XBLA game thanks to constant heavy discounting across the board.

I'm sorry, you're both either sheltered or insane for thinking that retailers don't discount cash-value cards. They do. I buy them. It's called a loss-leader and large retailers have no problem with it. iTunes (Safeway, Best Buy), Nintendo (Amazon, Target), Sony (BestBuy, Wal-mart)...

Google "____ card sale" if you can't believe it. They're not always nationwide or international, but you're simply not observing what retailers actually do, and perpetuating FUD on what is an excellent change of policy.

Canada has always paid more money for less MS points, a cost of $1.43 per 100 points instead of $1.25, even when our dollar was stronger. Sony has never had different pricing for Canada in the PSN store. For 7 years Canadians have paid a 14% premium for achievements instead of trophies. And because most game journos are U.S. based, Microsoft almost never gets called out on it. (lookin' at you @patrickklepek ;) And before the obvious question comes, no, Canucks cannot redeem 1600 point cards even if they shop cross-border. Canadian denominations were region locked and price fixed, whether on a card or in the dashboard. Again, even when our dollar was stronger. Points are how they get you. :P

Here in the Pacific Northwest, I see gift cards for sale for less than their prescribed value only one day every year: the Friday after American Thanksgiving.

Exactly, that was one of the reasons I bought most my arcade games on the Xbox. I guess now I have no reason to.

Will me unredeemed points card eventually be nonredeemable?

I'm sure the converted points to money is still under the same restrictions as the points.

Lets be honest though - If you don't spend the money by 2015 you never intended to in the first place.

@tehpickle said:

I've been in the beta - It lets you just make the purchase for any item directly to the card. Even lets you apply any cash in your 'wallet' or whatever they call it to the purchase. No more buying more than needed from what I can tell.

I'm sorry, you're both either sheltered or insane for thinking that retailers don't discount cash-value cards. They do. I buy them. It's called a loss-leader and large retailers have no problem with it. iTunes (Safeway, Best Buy), Nintendo (Amazon, Target), Sony (BestBuy, Wal-mart)...

Google "____ card sale" if you can't believe it. They're not always nationwide or international, but you're simply not observing what retailers actually do, and perpetuating FUD on what is an excellent change of policy.

Canada has always paid more money for less MS points, a cost of $1.43 per 100 points instead of $1.25, even when our dollar was stronger. Sony has never had different pricing for Canada in the PSN store. For 7 years Canadians have paid a 14% premium for achievements instead of trophies. And because most game journos are U.S. based, Microsoft almost never gets called out on it. (lookin' at you @patrickklepek ;) And before the obvious question comes, no, Canucks cannot redeem 1600 point cards even if they shop cross-border. Canadian denominations were region locked and price fixed, whether on a card or in the dashboard. Again, even when our dollar was stronger. Points are how they get you. :P

This. Points were brilliant, I *never* paid full price for an XBLA game thanks to constant heavy discounting across the board. Like the changes to the One, it's another case of Microsoft being ahead of their customers who, it seems, just want "faster horses".

I'm just glad I can spend my left-over points now.

Make sure you live in California, then. Stuff like that can't legally expire.

Great, all the people who didn't use them anyway can rejoice!

I will miss buying nothing but discounted points.

I'd rather use real-world currency than an arbitrary points system, but we'll never again buy our money on sale.

Two months ago I bought 4800 points for fifteen dollars. Farewell, inexpensive money.

Hurrah!

@msavo said:

I feel like it wasn't quite "day one", but the way Microsoft skewed the card prices as our currencies fluctuated really messed it up bad over time.

Or simply "Credits".