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Miyamoto Says Wii U Hardware Unlikely to 'Dramatically' Outperform Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3

Don't expect something wildly beyond what's already out there.

Many of the Wii U games shown at E3 were in HD, but sported art styles very much in-line with Wii.
Many of the Wii U games shown at E3 were in HD, but sported art styles very much in-line with Wii.

Nintendo is never specific about the guts of its hardware. Same with Wii U. But as Wii U ushers the company into the high-definition era, right around the time during a typical hardware cycle where we'd be purchasing new machines, many are curious how much of a leap Wii U will be over the competition.

GameSpot recently spoke with the man who oversees all of Nintendo, Shigeru Miyamoto, about the thought process behind the graphical hardware for Wii U. His response isn't surprising.

"Nintendo is an entertainment company," he said. "We're very sensitive to pricing because people have generally only a certain amount of their spending that they'll devote to entertainment. And if you're talking about parents buying something for kids, there are certain price points where parents may be willing to or not willing to purchase a certain product."

This is called Miyamoto setting gamers up with tempered expectations for advanced fidelity.

"So I don't know that we would be able to sit here and say that it's going to necessarily dramatically outperform the systems that are out now," he continued. "It's part of the balance that we strike in terms of trying to find entertainment that is new and unique."

The new controller can't be cheap. One would imagine that's driving much of his price sensitivity, especially since Nintendo's cautioning it may not support more than one controller at once.

Patrick Klepek on Google+

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Majkiboy

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Edited By Majkiboy

Give me F-Zero in HD, kthx

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FireBurger

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Edited By FireBurger
@joku2002 said:

hmm i smell a dreamcast

This generation the Wii launched simultaneously with the 360 and PS3 with inferior graphics and still outsold them by a mile. Now, they are launching the next generation with inferior graphics, but they're also getting a head start on the other two manufacturers. 
 
So, same technological situation, but with the addition of a headstart and a market probably to themselves for 2-3 years. They're going to sell a shitload. 
 
EDIT: Oh, and they're Nintendo.
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EverydayOdyssey

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Edited By EverydayOdyssey

From seeing the Wii U at E3 (albeit they were only demos) the hardware did not look as powerful as either the PS3 or the Xbox 360. If the Wii U can run BiosShock Infinite at parity with either system then I'll eat my hat (made of nachos).

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denimdanger

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Edited By denimdanger

I'm fine with Nintendo's choices of horsepower for this machine. I'll buy it, because I want to see nintendo's IP's in HD.  So these news stories don't have me too on-hinge.  
 
What I am anticipating highly is what Sony and Microsoft will do. They don't at all want to launch new consoles any time soon, but they may just because of pressure from Nintendo. So there's a question of time.  
Furthermore, how much horsepower will THEY put in their consoles when they launch? PC games certainly look very good now compared to consoles, but the gap isn't extreme; consoles are still keeping up somewhat admirably. I think a console could be launched today for 300-400 dollars and be able to run the latest games maxed out at 1080p.  
So exactly how powerful will their consoles be when they're released?  
 
This next generation is going to be highly interesting. 

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Siphillis

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Edited By Siphillis

Miyamoto's been rather mouthy as of late, hasn't he?

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Advancedcaveman

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Edited By Advancedcaveman

I don't care, just as long as there are Nintendo games in HD. All "more advanced graphics" means anymore is more ugly ass gritty realism. It means more brown, more smeary filtering effects, more bald men, more dirt particles, more post apocalyptic warehouses and sewage treatment facilities. " "Outperforming" just means a further lack of variety and colour.

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shinali

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Edited By shinali

@Marokai said:

*snip*

I didn't say that out of ignorance about the current tech in consoles today and the newer stuff out there, or to stifle any such advancements just because I want to hold on to my consoles a little longer. I keep up with technology and have an interest in the field of real-time graphics. No doubt games would look stunning if we took the latest nVidia or AMD GPUs and stuck it on a console; they would look most likely at least a little better than that last Unreal Engine tech demo that was recently shown.

The tech industry, however, is still in this weird transition with multiple core processors and the GPU's potential. It is still really difficult to create parallel code in which there seems to be not a lot of cases for, and the fact that how AMD and nVidia don't really know how to push GPGPU programming forward beyond CUDA or OpenCL. These are new paradigms that hardware vendors and developers still need to figure out; find out what the next generation would or should look like beyond just pushing more polygons or having a higher fillrate.

To provide a technological example, people at id Software like John Carmack, Jon Olick and etc. are currently looking into a solution for MegaGeometry, meaning having geometry as detailed as the artist would want. They're checking out voxels to accomplish this (more specifically, sparse voxel octrees), which each voxel would be as big as a pixel in your monitor. This would allow artists to do away with normal maps, textures, etc and just shape geometry however they please. All this in computational cost is the number of pixels in your screen, multiplied by a tree traversal. Unfortunately, this has a humongous memory requirement, well over beyond of whatever is in desktops today.

Current tech today mostly limits visual clarity. You can still make whatever game you're thinking of in some decent representation. I'd much rather see something more significant than just a faster GPU in the next generation. Not a revolution, mind you, but something that's more concrete on how developers make games now and days.

Aside from that, if Nintendo released something that is significantly more powerful than PS360 today, I would guarantee you that developers would not put much effort into making games look so much better. That would be just wasted cost for Nintendo. The core market has been lead by Microsoft and Sony for a while; it's not going to budge unless everyone wants it to.

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sins_of_mosin

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Edited By sins_of_mosin

I really wish some people would stop comparing the Wii with the 360/PS3.  They had completely different consumers and game styles.  Yes, the Wii did push more hardware for a few years but that is long over with and the software consists of 90% shovelware.

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Oginam

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Edited By Oginam

Nintendo - same old games with a new peripheral.

You want to pull some people away from Xbox and PS3? Gotta compete on specs not on "innovative gimmicks" and get the 3rd party support you severely lack.

You want 3rd party support? You have to give them a reason to design the games on YOUR system and not just port Xbox/PC/PS3 games over - otherwise you just get ports w/ lame touch functionality, not real innovation.

Make the 3rd parties come to you on tech and they will innovate for you on the controller. And then you're not just up-rezzing the Wii and taping an iPad to the Wii remote (well, you still are but it won't suck as much).

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Lobster_Ear

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Edited By Lobster_Ear
@Set said:
@Lobster_Ear: So Edgy.
I wasn't trying to be edgy. I just hope they fail and become a 3rd party console developer like Sega. When we have to rely on first party developers for decent games then why not put all your focus on creating said games for Sony and Microsoft? Because face it, the majority of 3rd party Wii games suck or are inferior to their PC/console counterparts and I don't see that changing with the Wii U, so I'm hoping that the Wii U fails and they go the way of Sega.  
 
They should stick to handhelds and developing games. And I honestly don't care about their gimmicky hardware. If they're so hell bent on forcing us to use their controllers then they could just release a Nintendo controller for the PlayStation and Xbox. Much cheaper than buying a whole new console that offers nothing but a different controller.
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lockload

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Edited By lockload

I dont think it will be as powerful from what i am hearing, once you take into account resources available for the game 
 
An more than one screen controller, dream on it cant handle it

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jellysnake

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Edited By jellysnake

Nintendo games in HD are all I'm looking for from the Wii U, not some graphical beast.

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Bruce

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Edited By Bruce

Nintendo's not going to do a damn thing to push a new standard of graphical hardware? What a fucking shocker.

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Edited By noremnants

Honestly if the rumor about it having a R770 GPU in it is true, it does have quite a bit more horsepower than what the Xbox 360 or PS3 have.

Just a quick comparison between the GPU in the 360 and the rumored one in the Wii-U.

Xenos(Xbox 360): 48 SPUs at 240 GFLOPS.

R770(Wii-U): 800 SPUs at1200 GFLOPS.

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chickdigger802

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Edited By chickdigger802

Curious how much of an improvement the next 360 and ps4. I doubt MS and Sony can get away with charging more than $400 at launch. And games are expensive to develop as it is. I can guess that the difference between the difference between visuals of ps3 to ps4 won't be as obvious as ps2 to ps3.

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haoshiro

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Edited By haoshiro

Not sure why anyone thinks this will ever be a problem for Nintendo.

They just dominated the market for, what, five years? Clearly they have proven they can be successful with hardware that is technically behind the competition.

If anything is going to be threatening to Wii-U I don't think it will be technical specifications, but something like Kinect which they have no direct answer to.

Still, they are the most "Family Friendly" company and have the largest and most iconic family brands. Zelda, Mario, Kirby, Pokémon, Smash Bros, Nintendogs, Animal Crossing... those will remain strong to new (and old) players and continue to drive parental sales.

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TEAMHOLT

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Edited By TEAMHOLT

@Mr402 said:

People buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games. It's a simple idea that has kept me playing on a Nintendo console for 25 years. The addition of HD to Nintendos existing IP's is all I need to warrant a purchase.

The visual style of their games holds up really well in the face of games with more sophisticated graphics. Now that they're putting out a system that can do 1080p and has capabilities similar to the 360 and PS3, I don't think graphics will be nearly as much of an issue as they have been for the Wii.

The only thing I'm really concerned about is whether or not they can consistently put out good games for the Wii U. They can't have another generation of consumers looking at their dusty Nintendo consoles and wondering why they even bought it.

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PillClinton

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Edited By PillClinton

@Marokai said:

@ShinAli said:

@Dany said:

Then what is the fucking point?

The point is that there isn't enough tech to justify a new generation jump, keep costs down to be competitive with 360 and PS3 at launch and not drive developers into more R&D/upscale asset creation costs after being assured by both Microsoft and Sony that there is plenty of life in this generation to go on.

I hate you, I really do. I hate everyone who continues to say it's "too early!" or "the tech isn't there!" because that's stupid and wrong. No, we're not going to see a huge generational leap in new hardware when we move forward again the next time like we have seen in the past, but that doesn't mean there isn't substantially more advanced graphics tech out there that we're straight-up ignoring. The tech in the 360 and Ps3 are about four generations of graphics cards old and consist of tech mostly from 2002/2003. In the closed platform of a home console they're able to stretch and milk that old hardware for all they can with any trick they have up their sleeve but there is far more advanced tech out there we could definitely have at our disposal.

The real point is twofold. For one thing, companies are too terrified to put together a strong technical machine because of cold business calculations after seeing the Ps3 initially stumble out of the gate and seeing the success of the Wii. Of course, the Wii wasn't really great for gaming in the grand scheme of things, but it was super for business. This generation has been defined more by the incredible business-ification of the videogame industry more than anything else. It makes developers and hardware companies stop doing what they could do and start focusing more one what's better for the bottom line. Which also, by the way, sucks for us. And secondly, this generation has expanded more than any other generation that we've accumulated so many goddamn whiners who are quick to say "but I'm not READY to move on yet! i just got a 360 last year, i'm fine with the way things are, who cares if it's old tech!" Which, A, only encourages the video game companies to continue acting like amoral businesses, and B, who the fuck cares if Joe Blow on the street corner isn't "ready" to move on? The tech is old, the performance of games is starting to crash, graphics have hit a wall for a long time now, and it's starting to get extremely depressing seeing ambitious projects like LA Noire be handcuffed by the limitations of systems running on graphics tech that is the better part of a decade old. We need someone to show leadership and show us what we could have, but no one wants to show that leadership because the businesses are doing just fine with the current state of affairs, all because of people like you enabling them and others that won't hold their feet to the fire as consumers.

I'm definitely not as fired-up as you are about it, but yeah, I'm pretty much on the same page. It's pretty deflating to see these unique, inventive new games come out and be hampered by visuals that pretty much look downright bad at this point. So, yeah, I'm ready for new hardware. I also should really build myself an awesome gaming PC to bridge the gap, and of course expose myself to the wealth of games to be had (and only be had) on PC.

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deactivated-6050ef4074a17

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@ShinAli said:

@Dany said:

Then what is the fucking point?

The point is that there isn't enough tech to justify a new generation jump, keep costs down to be competitive with 360 and PS3 at launch and not drive developers into more R&D/upscale asset creation costs after being assured by both Microsoft and Sony that there is plenty of life in this generation to go on.

I hate you, I really do. I hate everyone who continues to say it's "too early!" or "the tech isn't there!" because that's stupid and wrong. No, we're not going to see a huge generational leap in new hardware when we move forward again the next time like we have seen in the past, but that doesn't mean there isn't substantially more advanced graphics tech out there that we're straight-up ignoring. The tech in the 360 and Ps3 are about four generations of graphics cards old and consist of tech mostly from 2002/2003. In the closed platform of a home console they're able to stretch and milk that old hardware for all they can with any trick they have up their sleeve but there is far more advanced tech out there we could definitely have at our disposal.
 
The real point is twofold. For one thing, companies are too terrified to put together a strong technical machine because of cold business calculations after seeing the Ps3 initially stumble out of the gate and seeing the success of the Wii. Of course, the Wii wasn't really great for gaming in the grand scheme of things, but it was super for business. This generation has been defined more by the incredible business-ification of the videogame industry more than anything else. It makes developers and hardware companies stop doing what they could do and start focusing more one what's better for the bottom line. Which also, by the way, sucks for us.
 
And secondly, this generation has expanded more than any other generation that we've accumulated so many goddamn whiners who are quick to say "but I'm not READY to move on yet! i just got a 360 last year, i'm fine with the way things are, who cares if it's old tech!" Which, A, only encourages the video game companies to continue acting like amoral businesses, and B, who the fuck cares if Joe Blow on the street corner isn't "ready" to move on? The tech is old, the performance of games is starting to crash, graphics have hit a wall for a long time now, and it's starting to get extremely depressing seeing ambitious projects like LA Noire be handcuffed by the limitations of systems running on graphics tech that is the better part of a decade old. We need someone to show leadership and show us what we could have, but no one wants to show that leadership because the businesses are doing just fine with the current state of affairs, all because of people like you enabling them and others that won't hold their feet to the fire as consumers.
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Set

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Edited By Set
@Lobster_Ear: So Edgy.
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Coldplay619

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Edited By Coldplay619

Jumping to conclusions as usual. I thought Giantbomb was better than this ):

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raikoh05

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Edited By raikoh05

why cant the controller be cheap? from the slide pad to the low res resistive touch screen, everything is cheaper than it could be.

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Kjellm87

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Edited By Kjellm87
@Lobster_Ear said:
I hope this is the end of Nintendo. I really do.
Oh joy, now that would be a happy day for gamers now wouldn't it-.
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gogobomb

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Edited By gogobomb
@Max_Hydrogen: wow. you just made absolutely no sense, plus they said that the wii u wouldnt be "dramatically more powerful" meaning that it will be more powerful than the ps3 or 360 but not by much, honestly i have my doubts about the wii u, but im sure nintendo will make it work
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Lobster_Ear

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Edited By Lobster_Ear

I hope this is the end of Nintendo. I really do.

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Donkey_Kong

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Edited By Donkey_Kong

The PS2 was weaker than the GCN and Xbox, didnt seem to make a dent in sales. A balance is always necessary.

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Revenant86

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Edited By Revenant86
@TooWalrus said:

@joku2002 said:

hmm i smell a dreamcast

How so? Dreamcast outperformed N64 and PS1 by a long shot.

it also bombed out the floor 
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PrivateIronTFU

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Edited By PrivateIronTFU

I have no problem with that.

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Sooty

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Edited By Sooty
@EchoForge said:

@joku2002 said:

hmm i smell a dreamcast

Right down to the controller with a screen...

I like some of the functionality of the controller, and I'm sure Nintendo will know HOW to use it...I just can't see why I'd want a Wii U over what I have now, and what Sony/MS will have in the not-so-distant future (doesn't help that Nintendo games don't appeal to me).

Would be more surprised if it does tank sales-wise, though.

Except technically the controller did not have a screen, it was part of the memory card that had little impact on gameplay. One of the coolest things the screen did was show your health condition in Resident Evil: Code Veronica.
 
So what other comparisons can you make? Don't mention graphics because only a cretin would say the Dreamcast DIDN'T completely obliterate the N64 and PS1 when it came to visuals.
 
Such a ridiculous argument to make. It is nothing like the Dreamcast at all.
 
@jams said:

@Rolyatkcinmai said:

@TooWalrus said:

@joku2002 said:

hmm i smell a dreamcast

How so? Dreamcast outperformed N64 and PS1 by a long shot.

The Dreamcast sold 10 million units compared to the PS1's 100 million and the N64's 32 million.

So no, it didn't.

I think he was talking about performance. Dreamcast had about 25-50% more power than the PSX and the N64


Yeah this. I would say more like 100% more, the PS1 and N64 couldn't get anywhere near the levels of detail in Dreamcast games. 
 
Code Veronica through VGA still looks better than any PS2 game I've played on my TV through component.
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James_ex_machina

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Edited By James_ex_machina

So Nintendo is releasing a next gen console that is only slightly more powerful then the current generation PS3 and Xbox360. The console will only have one next gen controller(not including Wii controllers). Then Nintendo will pump out Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon then plan for the next generation.

yawn.

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Mr402

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Edited By Mr402

People buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games.   It's a simple idea that has kept me playing on a Nintendo console for 25 years.    The addition of HD to Nintendos existing IP's is all I need to warrant a purchase. 

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TyrellOCP

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Edited By TyrellOCP

Miyamoto; keeping it real.

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williamhenry

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Edited By williamhenry

@Max_Hydrogen said:

Now I'm not an expert in marketing or anything.... I mean, I haven't been to business school or studied advertising but even I think Nintendo's presentation of the Wii U is pretty STUPID. "Hey, guess what? Our new console won't be as powerful as the current competition..." So let's see... You're telling me that this thing is basically a Wii with a screen in its controller and I can only use one controller and I have to wait a whole year before I can play? GREAT! Can I give you my money now?!

That is... As long as third party game developers find interesting ways to use said controller (Nintendo hopes...) This is starting to look like the worst ad campaign in gaming history. It just seems like a shameless money grab: Nintendo has made money on the Wii right out of the gate since day one because they charged double what it cost to make while Sony lost money on the PS3 estimating that it could make that money back on game sales. Nintendo figured that if worked last time, why not just repeat the system; especially now that the Wii is bringing in diminishing returns. You see, this is what greed does: an inferior system. Does Nintendo take for a market of suckers? This might seriously bite them in the ass and I hope that's the wake up call they need.

At this time, it seems that you can only use of the Wii U controllers with the system and any other participants must use the Wii controller. So I see: Nintendo wants to appeal to the "core" gamers who were repelled by the Wii by making them use the Wii controller that repelled in the first place.

BRILLIANT!

The article doesn't say its less powerful than the 360/PS3, it says it won't be dramatically more powerful. So at the very least, its just as powerful as the 360/PS3.

The WiiU is a half step generation wise, at best. Nintendo is releasing this to stay competitive until they figure out what to do next.

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Jams

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Edited By Jams

@Rolyatkcinmai said:

@TooWalrus said:

@joku2002 said:

hmm i smell a dreamcast

How so? Dreamcast outperformed N64 and PS1 by a long shot.

The Dreamcast sold 10 million units compared to the PS1's 100 million and the N64's 32 million.

So no, it didn't.

I think he was talking about performance. Dreamcast had about 25-50% more power than the PSX and the N64

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Kjellm87

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Edited By Kjellm87
@Dany said:

Well they fucked up with third parties when the wii was launched and will most likely have ports of ps360 but what about in 2-3 years, they are going to be behind.

Simple enough by the sound of it, but I dunno. PS2 and Wii sold most. Tech getting expensive ( 599 dollars anyone), game developing is getting expensive compared to amount of hardcores out there, PC always ahead, yadadada. 
 
You tell me where we go from here. 

 
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shinali

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Edited By shinali

@Dany said:

Well they fucked up with third parties when the wii was launched and will most likely have ports of ps360 but what about in 2-3 years, they are going to be behind.

Agreed. Hopefully they've been researching/planning for the next-gen because I'm pretty sure Sony and Microsoft already started.

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winsord

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Edited By winsord

Who thought it would?

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CrossTheAtlantic

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Edited By CrossTheAtlantic
@Aeterna said:

Topic title is too different from the actual quote.

Though this is more click-able, this is disappointing Patrick.

I dunno. It seems pretty spot on to me. Miyamoto says:   
 
"So I don't know that we would be able to sit here and say that it's going to necessarily dramatically outperform the systems that are out now,"  
 
which is pretty much the headline.
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Deeveeus

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Edited By Deeveeus
@TooWalrus said:

@joku2002 said:

hmm i smell a dreamcast

How so? Dreamcast outperformed N64 and PS1 by a long shot.

Yes...but then couldn't quite keep up with the PS2 or Xbox later...I think he's getting at the timeline more than anything...that system people may root for, but may not buy. (BTW, Dreamcast was amazing :P)
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rmanthorp

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Edited By rmanthorp  Moderator

Nice...

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Rolyatkcinmai

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Edited By Rolyatkcinmai

@TooWalrus said:

@joku2002 said:

hmm i smell a dreamcast

How so? Dreamcast outperformed N64 and PS1 by a long shot.

The Dreamcast sold 10 million units compared to the PS1's 100 million and the N64's 32 million.

So no, it didn't.

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Jayross

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gasp.

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zityz

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Oh you guys. This is not a bad thing. I know the world is compromised of mainly graphic whores but let's think for one sec shall we?

Nintendo is in the business of making money. So they're not going to put out something so powerful that it will cost them cash. Not only that you know how long it takes developers now a days to crank out games? the man hours? the amount of money per game? Do you really think someone is going to make a console right now that's going to push Battlefiled 3 PC looks for every game?

I'm set right now with what they're doing. Make a console that can be a bit better than the competition as well as make an interesting direction forward. You can still play your HD games as well as Nintendo games, and still be happy.

Besides. If you guys really need some kind of machine that will outperform the ps3 and 360 a Gaming PC seams likely in your future.

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mnzy

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@liako21 said:
ive always believed its been about games. really good games will make people want to buy a system.
Games? Stop living in the past, man.
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liako21

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ive always believed its been about games. really good games will make people want to buy a system.

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Nomin

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How about Sony release a 'special wireless controller' with a touchscreen on it to coincide with the release of Wii-U? 
 
And Nintendo, price sensitive as they are, is currently pricing the 3DS at $250.
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DonPixel

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BOOOOOORINGGGGG

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JoeRosa

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All I can do is laugh and snicker. They are pushing this console hard because the Wii is almost over. All we really have left is Kirby Wii and Zelda.

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JohnPaulVann

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I have no interest in developing for this system. And I'm not alone, either.

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Sayishere

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Surprise surprise..