Is it still a good idea to lock this in at 30FPS? I have seen a lot of talk about both durability problems and enemy speed weirdness caused by running at 60, but no mention of whether that's still an issue with this new release.

Those are still issues, but to be honest, Dark Souls wouldn't be Dark Souls without jank. Crank the jank as far as you can, IMO.

I knew about this before finishing DS2 and just never had an issue.

My dex weapons can break in 2 enemies if I'm not careful. One extra swipe on a already dead corpse and I have to restart my run

Its a problem on PS4, I hope it gets patched soon. I went through five weapons in the first area. I made it to the bonfire with the merchant. And had 5 broken weapons. I was using my fist for the last few enemies.

@sterling: It's been an issue since the game was released on the PC more than a year ago. I don't think it's possible for them to fix it or they would have by now. Or if it is fixable, there must be some other conflicting issue that is stopping them from patching it.

I mean... the simple fix would be that if it is breaking twice as fast due to the framerate being doubled, then just double the durability stat on all weapons to account for the problem.

@neocalypso: Ya, but on PC you can lock the frame rate though lower can't you. You can't do that on PS4. And they can fix it, its just a matter if they will.

Stay at 60. It has basically been confirmed that they left the faster weapon degradation in SotFS on purpose. It apparently degrades the same way at 30fps now.

@hassun: Really?

I've got the base game on PS3 as well. Must check to see if that's the case, or do they mean just Scholar?

@dave_tacitus: What I think happened is that it was indeed a bug in the original game (vanilla DSII for consoles would be unaffected) but instead of fixing it for Scholar they canonised it. Early testing seems to indicate the system is now in place across all versions of Scholar no matter the framerate.

@hassun: Heh, that's one way to get around a bug.

I end up having two, sometimes three weapons in rotation on PC. Beat The Lost Sinner last night without too much grief but some of those enemy placement changes really are bullshit. Probably my fault for trying to rush, but still...

So what you're saying is that we should all just punch the shit out of everything? Yes sir!

E: Although I will say, if it is a 'feature' now like the above post said, that sounds sad for whenever I get to playing this 'cause I used the same weapon for pretty much 75% of DS1.

This thread explains a lot. Only finished DS2 on 360 once the week it released, bought Scholar Edition last weekend on PS4 and couldn't figure out if I totally mis-remembered DS2 or if they actually changed that stuff.

I played through the original version on PC at 60 and I didn't have too much trouble, you just have to be more careful with your swings because the durability bug is for specific things like hitting a corpse or a wall or something. I played a dex build so had low durability weapons mainly, managed fine (didn't use the whip though, I heard that's a pain with the bug.)

Definitely must be the latter rather than the former, because the only reason I could see this happening is 100% fixable and something everyone who has ever made a game in their spare time should know about and could fix.

It is silly how fast your weapon durability drained in Dark Souls 2 on PC, but I never thought it was a bug. I figured it was to balanced weapons with limits on spell charges. Then it turns out to be a bug and then they gave divine casters the nerf of a life time. Something like 30 casts to 6 for spells and reduced their damage. I managed to beat the game without even knowing it was weird to need two weapons to get between bonfires.

So considering the shiftyness with this game and it's old is new E3 2013 graphics for $30 plus the DLC we said this game wouldn't have, I think I'll hold off and spend my dosh on killing some new floors.

"Buy the package and you’ll get the full experience," says Dark Souls 2 producer.

@hassun: Hmm, I'll have to check my PS3 version now that the big patch for that is out. Or did you mean only in the new SotFS, and not in the patched old versions?

I would say the 30fps double durability is the bug, not the degradation at 60fps. They want durability to be relevant, it's intended. If they wanted it different I'm sure it would be an easy fix.

Its not a bug, its a feature.

There is a fix out for it now. Check reddits ds2 section.

I played the ps3 version for like 300 hours and am now playing the ps4 version. The quicker weapon degradation was jarring initially but you get used to it and I actually think I prefer it now. Unless you missed a bonfire or you were trying a no bonfire run, weapon durability on the ps3 version was essentially irrelevant before with the exception of a couple areas (no mans wharf, dragon shrine). Now you need to consider it when developing your build. For example, I now carry two weapons in my right hand to combat the issue but that adds to my equip load. The only real drawback is that it now makes no bonfire runs significantly harder. I remember having to think about weapon durability constantly on my ps3 ng no bonfire run as it was. You'd need to use the small white soapstone and/or intentionally kill yourself much more often now, or simply wait until Ng+ when you have a ton of repair powder.

@sterling: SotFS afaik.

@neocalypso: My understanding is the devs don't consider this a bug, but intentional. It might be intentional that durability depleted based on the amount of frames your weapon was inside an enemy hit-box, but I don't think it's intentional that it should be depleting so much. There have been people in the DS2 sub-reddit with thoughts on how to fix it, and one player even created a formula to throttle the durability drain so that it always works as though you're playing at 30 FPS, despite actually going beyond 60 FPS. It's nothing new though, as this type of thing was done for a while before this IP was created.

I'm still waiting for this to be patched before I spend a dime on this game. If it never gets fixed I guess I'll never play this game.

I dont see what is so hard about fixing this. If it's hard to fix the bug, then why not just increase durability on the items that suffer from this?

Agreed. I'm about to buy a PS4 and wanted to pick this up with Bloodborne, because I never played DS2. Although, after hearing about all of these changes to the difficulty and this durability crap - I think I may just buy the original release on PC or wait for them to actually do something about it on the PS4. The 'remix' stuff I've heard about seems like it is intended for veterans of the original DS2, not really meant for newcomers. That's turning me off as well. I don't want the 'hard mode' before I've played 'normal mode'. :/

@hemmelight: I'm playing on PC for the first time, with Scholar (I played DS2 on PS3 previously) and I never knew about this issue. It's not ruining my game. Also, if you know how to play Souls, you'll be fine with this version. Its rough at the very beginning but I haven't had much issue after getting past the second boss.

The durability is only an issue early game, when you have week weapons with low durability. And you have low stats so you have to swing them more. Once you level up a bit and find new weapons its not an issue.

But I keep trying to recover my health by attacking. That is an issue. Also I'm now really good at shield parrying, which I never used to be. Thanks to Bloodborne.

I'll probably counter it just by carrying spares. That was actually my intention when I started Dark Souls because I always wondered about having a plan B.

copy and pasting relevant info

Fellow Hollows:

There has been a lot of discussion about the durability "bug" or "feature" of Scholar of the First Sin.

Now, a disclaimer: I am a PC player. I have been for Dark Souls, Dark Souls II, and now SotFS. With the exception of this testing, I have always played at 60 FPS; I think the game IS very playable this way. I just switch weapons regularly.

Six months ago, I tested the durability issue in Dark Souls II (DX9) on the PC version and found that it is indeed tied to framerate[1] . For the curious: the split between "normal" and "double" durability loss happens between 40 and 41 FPS.

I have seen a lot of discussion about the durability issue of SotFS, namely, whether not it is "fixed" -- meaning "no longer tied to framerate". The way I see it: If durability loss is NOT tied to FPS, then what we thought was "double" durability loss is in fact FROM wanted. If is IS tied to FPS, then it's fair to say it is a BUG.

That said, I just tested Scholar of the First Sin, the DX11.

The test was conducted as follows:

• Cardinal Tower Bonfire
• Soldier Hollow outside the door (can kill in one hit)
• Puzzling Stone Sword - 60 durability and 1H-R1 can easily hit corpses
• Kill hollow (1 hit), and then slash the corpse 15 times, correcting my positioning each hit compensate for the forward step
• Record durability of Puzzling Stone Sword, rest at bonfire
• Repeat 3 more times for repeatability

Here's what I found:

And to verify my previous findings, I tested it AGAIN at 60 FPS after doing the 30 FPS, and got 26/60.

And lastly, I tested the "breakpoint" -- it seems to be a more linear relationship between FPS and durability. At 40 and 41 FPS, I got a 38/60 and 35/60, respectively. So there wasn't a clear "double durability loss threshold" like there was on the DX9 version.

tl;dr -- durability loss (at least while hitting corpses) is still tied to FPS. It is still a bug. The game is still playable; just learn to keep an eye on your durability and swap weapons from time to time.

EDIT: I previously tested pre-SotFS Dark Souls 2 riposte damage and how it was tied to framerate; at 30 FPS a riposte would do 2/3 the damage of a 60 FPS riposte. When I get a little farther in SotFS (Drakeblood Knights; lots of health and easy to parry), I'll do a similar test. Assuming the results are similar, then it shows that damage, as well as durability, is tied to framerate. That could explain why it's not a straightforward fix.

UPDATE: Just tested riposte damage and framerate.

Method:

• Rapier
• Drakeblood Knights (high HP, easy to parry)
• Parry, riposte, record damage, repeat until dead

source: http://www.reddit.com/r/DarkSouls2/comments/326ugc/psa_the_durability_bug_in_sotfs_pc_tested_with/

Now my opinion, it doesn't matter. I've only had 1 sword break and it was the crappy one you start with. I've been using a Mace and now the Bastard Sword for hours and its come close to breaking but a trip to a bonfire stores it. It's been a very fun game so far.

@rincewind: That's some good detective work right there. Science bitch.

That said, my main weapon is the Heide Sword and I can't really say it breaks that easily, although that's probably because it's a durable weapon and not that I'm not also experiencing this weird bug. I just carry around a Repair spell with me at all times anyway.

I'm playing a sorcerer so I haven't had much issue with durability. But I did encounter some odd enemy movement just in one area. Their animations were normal but when they would run it looked like they were going double the speed. So their actual movement was faster than the animation appeared... they looked like they were sliding. I assume it has to do with this bug? Regardless, 60 FPS > anything lower. I popped back into Bloodborne for a second and the game looks downright atrocious by comparison.

@rincewind: Awesome post man. Really enlightening. I never knew that damage numbers were tied to framerate as well.

Any idea why so many framerate related bugs show up in games nowadays? I remember the latest Need for Speed had speed tied to framerate, and that there's a weapon in COD:AW that is tied to framerate as well. The Crew apparently has framerate issues as well.

I always thought that tieing systems to framerate was just a sign of bad porting by a company / developer, but when you see this happening to big AAA studios like Ubisoft and Infinity Ward, i wonder why suddenly these framerate problems show up again. I don't remember it being a huge problem in the xbox 360/ ps3 era.

I was afraid of this issue, but having played the first version and now this version, I can't say I am really bummed out by it. I've only had one sword fully break. Just equip two swords or whatever, it's really super manageable and I DON'T consider it a hindrance to enjoying the game.

Right, except that you could potentially just lock your game at 30 to double even the doubled durability. Not that I think anyone would really want to do that, because... who cares? My weapon now sometimes breaks before I can reach the next bonfire, I would make it easily if they doubled durability so no reason to stick it to 30 for even more durability if my weapon is going to be repaired at the next bonfire anyways. But they might want to avoid that for some reason. Perhaps PvP. Even though almost no one uses it, it would make equipment breaking arrows and spells obsolete.

The patch that (supposedly) fixes the durability issue is out on Steam if anyone was waiting on that.

I'm assuming this has long been fixed on the PS4 version. Am I right? I haven't spotted news about it beyond old stories of the patch 'coming soon.' I'll be delving in for the first time soon.

Yeah they patched it, its all good.

Awesome, good to know. Thanks, man!