The (Inevitable) Hate/Complain Thread

#1 Edited by ShalashaskaUK666 (531 posts) -

Obviously with such a nigh-perfect previous game, there were gonna be changes or other features in part 2 that just don't sit right with everyone.

I personally can't for the life of me figure out why they make you constantly go into the menu to 're-equip' life gems after you run out and pick more back up. If you're in combat and in need of munching one you just picked up, it's impossible to do so without getting skewered.

I also think the fact that even GETTING an Estus hinges on you spotting the maiden on the cliff-edge next to the first bonfire in Majula is bizarrely ridiculous, as it's something I didn't see at all. As well as this their whole 'hey you can go wherever you want!' shtick that kicked me in the balls, as I ended up in that Flame area that looks like a disused Anor Londo and proceeded Estus-less with no healing gems for a good 2 hours, assuming that was where I was supposed to go.

Lastly (and yeah this is in some other posts I've made in the last couple hours) they've introduced some system governing when you can and can't do a forward+attack move, yet they don't explain it whatsoever. I've died a good 20 times from needing to guard break or jump forward, only for the standard animation to play out and I get gutted.

For a game with a combat system built from the ground-up on split-second timing, they sure fucked the whole thing RIGHT up with this garbage.

I'm currently hating DS II, and having come straight from part 1 only half an hour before playing, I genuinely think they've broken what made DS so sublime, by introducing too many tiny changes.

Anyway, over to you!

#2 Posted by Veektarius (4920 posts) -

Funny, I'm not interested in the game because it looks like they didn't improve on the original. But I've never drunk the Kool-aid on this one. I'll grant you, though, watching it played, the combat looks more unnatural than before somehow.

#3 Posted by slyspider (1285 posts) -

Game is awesome, but the estus heal over time and slow to a walk to drink it is fucking me up. Also more co-op forced fights are the absolute worst as i wanted to beat the game solo but 2 bosses, so far, have forced me to do co-op instead of me out thinking the game

#4 Posted by shinjin977 (786 posts) -

Sad to see you disappointed dude. As for myself, cracked under the pressure and got it for the ps3, will double dip for pc. Got it yesterday, took the week off and I am already 20hr in. I guess that is all that need to be said about what I think of this game so far. My favorite thing about this game The Crystal Lizards are NOT helpless.

#5 Posted by Tobako (75 posts) -

I ended up not cancelling my order so maybe friday if I'm lucky or monday I'll get first hand experience, I heard you can no longer do a sudden change to the position of your attack by turning the stick into the opposite direction right after pressing attack, is that true?

#6 Posted by handlas (2699 posts) -

I also think the fact that even GETTING an Estus hinges on you spotting the maiden on the cliff-edge next to the first bonfire in Majula is bizarrely ridiculous, as it's something I didn't see at all. As well as this their whole 'hey you can go wherever you want!' shtick that kicked me in the balls, as I ended up in that Flame area that looks like a disused Anor Londo and proceeded Estus-less with no healing gems for a good 2 hours, assuming that was where I was supposed to go.

Yeeeeep. I think you are describing the place I went first as well. 3 hours later I had a broken sword, no blacksmith to repair it and could not beat the boss there. Thus I thought the game was essentially over for that character. Until I sought help here. Turns out the most obvious path is the wrong path... you need to go to the small little trail tucked away at the edge of a cliff. Woops.

To be fair, this is one of the criticisms I had for Dark Souls as well. You can say your game is open like that and you have the freedom to go where ever. Sure. But not really when you first start the game because you will just get your ass kicked until you find the right path for beginners. Hence (I say it all the time) Demon Souls > Dark Souls.

Oh, but I love the game regardless ;)

#7 Posted by ArbitraryWater (11909 posts) -

I hate that I have to wait until April 25th and these forums are going to be clogged up with nothing but Dark Souls talk until then.

#8 Edited by Quid_Pro_Bono (303 posts) -

On the second boss fight, The Pursuer, I had the most infuriating death. I summoned assistance (I'm all about that jolly co-operation) and we were wrecking him, but then one of the dudes runs over to the ballista and fires, hitting me and one-shotting me. So, PSA if you're helping with Pursuer - ballistas may not be the best when three dudes are running around with the boss. I raged at first but now that I took him out it's just Dark Souls being Dark Souls. That was the first time I've actually set the controller down and gotten really angry at the game, though.

#9 Posted by SoldierG654342 (1786 posts) -

Animations aren't super great, especially the Hollow Soldiers in the starting areas. I also absolutely hate that enemies stop spawning.

#10 Posted by csl316 (8954 posts) -

This is my first time playing a Souls game, despite watching a whole bunch on GB over the years. I hate that I never played one before this.

#11 Posted by HerbieBug (4212 posts) -

nigh-perfect previous game

I haven't had a chance to play the new one yet but I will say with authority that you are looking at Dark 1 with some especially rosey lenses with that statement.

#12 Edited by horseman6 (405 posts) -

Just started playing it after spending hundreds of hours in Dark Souls and Demons Souls. I have some major, major complaints. First of all, the technical issues are really frustrating. I'm used to playing DS on the PC with DSFix which works fine. I have both the 360 version and the PS3 version. Both of them have problems. The 360 tearing is headache inducing while the framerate on the PS3 is horrific.

Aside from technical problems, I absolutely hate the changes they made to animations and the controls in general. Everything feels sluggish, and after being a fast parrying/dodging machine in DS1, I'm having a hard time doing anything in DS2. I can deal with changes to the way a game plays, and the changes definitely make the game harder which is fine. If only the changes made the game fun.

I'm selling both copies and waiting for the PC version.

#13 Edited by Reisz (1517 posts) -

While the framerate on the PS3 is horrific.

I've heard this complaint a lot, Vinny even mentioned it, which is weird because I would swear that I am getting >40fps the majority of the time. It's so smooth in some places I almost feel like it's too fast. I've had a couple of little drops but it runs smoother and faster than Demon's Souls ever did. and don't even get me started on the PS3 version of Dark Souls, what a fiasco Blighttown was. I'm almost tempted to try and get capture footage, it's like I'm the only one having this experience. Which is weird because I felt the same way about GTA V. Maybe my launch day rotund PS3 is special. The load times however, yeah, ouch. I got Five tooltips travelling back to Majula last night.

As far as things I don't like about the game I am CRUSHED that they removed Scabbards and Quivers, CRUSHED! It's the worst most pointless change ever, I hate everything about it, Souls games up to this point have been one of the few titles that hadn't contracted floating weapon syndrome. Especially having two both Bolts and arrows equipped. It was phenomenal but now? floating weapons everywhere.

Why can't every game be the Witcher 2?

#14 Posted by bnutz2k (90 posts) -

@quid_pro_bono: Ohhhhhhh... I thought my lightning spell bounced off his shield (The Pursuer). That jerk phantom!

Complaints:

  • I don't like having to talk to someone to level up. I gotta hear the same shpiel every time... ugh.
  • The frequency at which you turn back to human form after helping people is a bit too high.
  • How quickly weapons degrade. Although, I suppose one could aspire to get the repair spell.
  • People who don't pay attention to their health and die because they don't run away for a second to pop a flask/gem.

Um... that's it, really.

#15 Edited by Fredchuckdave (5714 posts) -

@reisz: There definitely are quivers; pretty sure some weapons have scabbards as well.

I have had 0 framerate issues on PS3; the game has pop-in now instead of occasional framerate hiccups; I guess I'd prefer a slightly worse framerate over that given how one of the later areas works (though it might actually be intentionally designed to fuck you because of the pop-in).

#16 Edited by Yummylee (22041 posts) -

Framerate is consistently garbage on PS3; it's almost reaching Far Cry 3 console levels of choppiness.

#17 Posted by Steadying (1336 posts) -

- Frame rate is annoying
- Comparing items is still not as good as it should be in the year 2014
- Not really a huge deal at all, but come on, why don't the NPC's mouths move?

That's about all my complains so far. I really like it, but those two things are really disappointing.

#18 Posted by ttocs (765 posts) -

Framerate has been perfect so far for me on PS3.

Only complaint I have is the diminishing health. I really wish it would have been like souls 1 but I'm sure I'll get used it over time.

#19 Edited by Daneian (1245 posts) -

Don't care for DoSouls level design flow. Go down a path, get to a dead end and warp back out. Done that in three or four places and it's a bummer.

Also not into the new enemy respawn system. On one hand, it's increased my anxiety about losing out on those finite souls, but it's also an accessibility mode for new players, essentially subtracting enemies to make boss runs easier. By making it easier, the onus isn't on the player to improve their skill set and lessens the overall souls they might need to begin with. Also at odds with the consumable healing items.

#20 Edited by kishinfoulux (2394 posts) -

Frame rate can be pretty bad on PS3.

I don't care for returning to the lady to level up either.

Weapon durability is nonsense. Shit breaks down way too easily.

Not being able to compare items in shops (seriously?).

Also maybe it's just me, but are any of you having this weird issue where you'll just unequip your weapon or shield in battle? It happens constantly to me. I refuse to believe my finger is slipping from the joystick to the d-pad that often. It's cost me more then I would like. Could also be my controller on the fritz.

#21 Posted by LawGamer (237 posts) -

I'm really starting to hate the enemy respawn limit. Although I understand why its there, I think it was poorly thought out. I couldn't put my finger on why I didn't like it at first, but after thinking about it, I came up with three primary reasons:

  1. The potential to "clear" an area has uncaged the min-max demon that lives inside me. I am now obsessed with killing everything until the spawn limit to get the maximum number of potential souls. This makes me more likely to grind, not less, which would seem to defeat the purpose of the system.
  2. I think it discourages experimentation. I know they were worried about players grinding for stats, but for me, the bigger reason for grinding was always to experiment with new items and playstyles. If I had trouble against a particular boss, I might try upgrading a new kind of weapon. Your ability to do this is now limited. Since there are a finite number of souls, I can't be spending a ton on upgrading new equipment all the time.
  3. It has fundamentally altered the way I play, and not in a good way. I am much more worried about dying in succession and thus permanently losing not just my souls, but the potential to regain those souls. This has led to me carrying around fewer souls than I was in DSI. I am instead spending them almost as soon as I have enough to afford something. This means that I am making a ton of trips back to Majula to level, which is obnoxious after a while. It also makes me much more timid about going into a new area, since I am worried about dying and my souls being left in an inaccessible place. This reduces the sense of "forging ahead" that I found really enjoyable in DSI.

I've heard rumors that there is a way to reset the spawn limit at a bonfire, which would make a lot of these complaints moot. Does anyone know if that's true, or the particular item that would let you do that?

#22 Posted by bnutz2k (90 posts) -

@lawgamer: I think you can use a Bonfire Ascetic, which you can get as one of the starter gifts, to increase the strength of the mobs around a bonfire, but I'm unsure if it will make mobs start to respawn there again after disappearing.

I was concerned about them despawning, too, because in previous games I would grind for souls near a bonfire or starting point (in Demon's). However, judging by the lack of souls needed to level compared to Dark Souls 1 and also the apparent size of this game, I don't think it's going to be much of a problem for me in that regard. I've now defeated four bosses and along with the fact you can fast travel right out of the gate, you really don't need to revisit certain areas.

I think the only time this is truly going to be a major problem is when it comes to farming certain items. Hopefully, certain enemies won't despawn.

#23 Edited by Fredchuckdave (5714 posts) -

@lawgamer: The "finite" number of souls you describe is in the millions for one clear.

#24 Posted by EXTomar (4841 posts) -

Can I hate about threads like this? And was the previous game "nigh-perfect"? Really?

#25 Posted by LawGamer (237 posts) -

@fredchuckdave: And that's a very valid point. From a purely logical standpoint, I know this to be the case. However, when I'm playing, I still feel the psychological pressure of knowing they are a limited resource, even if the limit is higher than I would ever need.

#26 Posted by jclane (337 posts) -

Whoo-boy, this thread sure seems impulsive and preemptive.

#27 Edited by Demoskinos (15011 posts) -

@quid_pro_bono: Second? I haven't even seen him yet and I've got 3 bosses down.

#28 Posted by Fredchuckdave (5714 posts) -

@lawgamer: Actually it's in the tens of millions; soul income gets real crazy near the end; experimenting is fine but perhaps a bit chancy early on. Just use a base weapon, if you like the attack pattern after using it for about a half hour then upgrade it

#29 Edited by Matiaz_Tapia (285 posts) -

@lawgamer: A potential work around is to go into someone else's world as a blue phantom. You are always free to do that and farm for not only souls, but items as well ( only enemy drops). The only catch is that the guy who summoned you needs to survive in order for you to keep the profits.

Otherwise it's repeatable and risk free. I think your humanity goes up each time?....but I'm not sure? Sometimes i get summoned, the guy dies and I still get my humanity back. Sometimes I help the guy defeat the boss and stay hollow.

#30 Posted by SoldierG654342 (1786 posts) -

I really want to know how to become human reliably because I'm fucking sick of fighting the Bastile boss. I've been there since yesterday because every time I try to fight the boss in my game, the phantoms either die, or leave me for dead.

#31 Posted by Deathpooky (1420 posts) -

@lawgamer: The thing I think is weirdest about the anti-grinding is that leveling isn't the same as it was in DS1. There, if you pumped up levels, any soul level increase would give you a bonus to armor, regardless of which stat you leveled. So grinding out 10-20 extra levels could make a big difference not only in doing extra damage or having more health, but also making you significantly more survivable, regardless of your character. Here, leveling alone only gives you a negligible amount of HP. It doesn't seem like DS1 where being overleveled alone can let you roll a boss. When I got stuck on a boss and left to explore and gain some levels, the marginal damage and health I gained didn't seem that helpful in eventually overcoming the boss.

That said, I haven't found the despawning that big a deal if you just ignore it. I've never killed something more than 10 times on purpose. The only time it's kicked in is to help make runs to a terrible boss a little easier, which I think is mainly what they were going for. I still play carefully to avoid losing souls, but I always did that.

Having to go back to Majula every time you come to a bonfire with enough souls to level definitely sucks though. Have fun waiting through minutes of dialogue and load times to get one stat increase! Having a reason to go back to the hub makes sense, but constantly interrupting exploration to spend souls is terrible, especially since the load times are no joke.

#32 Posted by Clonedzero (4200 posts) -

I actually have very few complaints, i'm LOVING the game honestly.

However to play by the rules of the thread. What the fuck is with the super low weapon durability? I can barely make it through a zone without my weapon nearly breaking, and im using a long sword. I'm fairly certain theres a ring that reduces durability loss, and if anyone knows where that is, let me know. I'd give you a great big internet hug.

#33 Posted by hippocrit (252 posts) -

@extomar: I'm with you. Praise the sun, don't hate!!

#34 Posted by bnutz2k (90 posts) -

The three sentinels are vulnerable to lightning and magic. You want to summon the NPC phantom who uses Soul Arrows and cast Lightning Spear yourself or find a cleric type. I haven't beaten them yet, but I'm going to tonight damnit.

#35 Posted by MiniPato (2742 posts) -

I had a pretty bad framerate in the beginning of the game, but I feel like the more I play, the better the framerate got. Now it almost seems too fast at points, like in Majula. It's surprisingly smooth now. But that whole beginning part was noticeably bad.

The things are hate are largely technical. That character creator is garbage for many reasons. The biggest destroyer of character creators is how long it takes for the changes to load in. I have not seen a character creator as slow as Dark Souls 2. It takes at least 10 seconds for individual changes to kick in. If you accidentally make someone hideous as fuck, it takes ages to reverse it.

Not only in the character creator, but menus seems to take a while to load in images as well. For example, going into the inventory, it'll only show the items I have equipped and then it'll load in the images for the other items later. A lot of things seem not as snappy as Dark Souls. Takes a while to the menu to come up when sitting at a bonfire. Skipping dialogue needs to be much faster. Having to wait through those dialogue windows before leveling up and then after sucks. From might have put some kind of buffer between lines or something that makes skipping through it slower.

Also been having audio issues with audio cutting in and out, specifically sword slash sounds.

Other than those technical issues, I've been enjoying the game's new changes in mechanics.

#36 Edited by Paco (113 posts) -

@clonedzero: Bracing Knuckle Ring, found in Lost Bastille, It's through 2 hidden walls on the way to Sinner's Rise.

#37 Posted by ShalashaskaUK666 (531 posts) -

@jclane said:

Whoo-boy, this thread sure seems impulsive and preemptive.

Pre-emptive? Nope! Impulsive? Oh hell yes.

@extomar said:

Can I hate about threads like this? And was the previous game "nigh-perfect"? Really?

Haha of course you can! :) I'd say it was nigh-perfect yeah, that 'nigh' part being an amalgamation of Blighttown's frame rate and Ornstein and Smough.

Cheers for all the replies guys, I'm still battling my way through, and still getting incredibly annoyed at the lack of being able to do a jumping attack when I'd like to! But hey, "that's my Dark Souls!"

#38 Edited by Reisz (1517 posts) -

@reisz: There definitely are quivers; pretty sure some weapons have scabbards as well.

No kidding, I will keep my eyes open thanks, I definitely equipped Bolts when I picked them up early on, couldn't see a quiver but i'll double check now. It was pretty late.

#39 Posted by Generic_username (627 posts) -

@shalashaskauk666: I don't understand why everyone thinks O&S is so bad. I beat them second try. The Gaping Dragon, however, that thing fucked me up. I was stuck there for hours and hours, not wanting to go grind because of the damn basilisks in the sewers that could curse you.

#40 Edited by Aetheldod (3627 posts) -

@shalashaskauk666: The foward attack can be done all the time ... I dunno either you are terrible at controls or your controller is effed up duder.

Edit: did some testing... if you attack with a normal attack then try to do the foward + attack it wont come out , you can only do the foward attack without using a normal attack prior. Never try this on other Souls games so I dunno if it changed or not.

#41 Edited by Solh0und (1797 posts) -

Framerate on the PS3 seems to be on a "YMMV" basis right now. Game has yet to show any choppy framerate for me.

Be glad that there isn't another "Blighttown" in this one.

#42 Edited by Fredchuckdave (5714 posts) -

The (intended) penultimate boss fight is just trolls on layers of trolls; it's the trolliest boss fight I've ever seen. I had virtually beaten it on the first attempt after discovering the inherent troll, then out of a bit of "meh that boss was easy, let's speed it up" I unwittingly activated troll power number 2 and proceeded to die to the boss a few times before figuring out that one. If that's not enough the arena you fight in over the very prolonged battle is surrounded by a bottomless pit on 3 sides so you'll probably randomly walk off the edge at some point. I'm glad I died though, that shit is hilarious especially troll power 2 (which might be a bug but I doubt it, guide doesn't mention it but man). It's even tied into the trolltastic trophies that you have to get for the platinum.

#43 Edited by jkz (4040 posts) -

That god damn Smelter Demon >_<

Apparently you can skip him and return later (he's the only boss to give me any trouble thus far) but I've yet to figure out how =/

#44 Edited by ShalashaskaUK666 (531 posts) -

@shalashaskauk666: The foward attack can be done all the time ... I dunno either you are terrible at controls or your controller is effed up duder.

Edit: did some testing... if you attack with a normal attack then try to do the foward + attack it wont come out , you can only do the foward attack without using a normal attack prior. Never try this on other Souls games so I dunno if it changed or not.

It TOTALLY changed, and what's the timing on this? Like do a normal attack, wait for X time, and then the game will 'allow' you to do a heavy? In Dark Souls one of my favourite tactics was I'd back away from a dude and leap back in, especially if there was a group of them.

I actually just went and bought another controller (needed one anyway!) and it still ain't working all the time. Sometimes when I'm just standing and try forward+RT it still often does the standard attack.

The game feels pretty broken in comparison tbh, and I'm also hating how when in any merchant screen there are no comparison stats to what you have equipped. That's just DUMB.

Thanks for all the replies again everyone!! :D

#45 Edited by OneKillWonder_ (1788 posts) -

Well, I'm getting my ass kicked over and over again in the beginning of the game, so I can't really say I'm having a good time. I hate how your life bar gets smaller the more you die. Totally ass-backwards mechanic. Still haven't figured out how to restore it. Certain enemies have way too brief of tells for their attacks making the timing of when to strike or block unnecessarily tight. It's very easy to get stun-locked into an attack without being able to block out of it. It feels more cheap than challenging. The hitbox for some enemy attacks is off, too. The first boss straight up cheats by being able to step on you without his foot being anywhere near you. The fact that all his attacks are one-hit kills (or they were for me, I was playing with half a lifebar) makes it even worse. Still haven't been able to beat this asshole yet.

I've started over in hopes of getting through the first area with more ease and not losing all of my health, but I'm having a much harder time with this game than I ever did with DS1, and a lot of it is due to changes I don't like. I'm sure I'll get used to some of it in time, but at the same time, some of it also seems like total garbage. I want to love this game the way I loved the last one, but it's not happening yet

*phew* Feels good to bitch about this game after the time I've had with it so far, even if I am "wrong" about some of this stuff.

#46 Posted by ShalashaskaUK666 (531 posts) -

@onekillwonder_: Haha man I gotta sympathise thoroughly, I'm hating every second so far. I feel like the developers took the whole 'well you know what you're getting in for!' thing and decided to make a game that is so much more egregiously hard and I do think it's unfair.

DS was so perfect because the controls were SO tight, with animation that was spot on, with the broken hit-boxes here and the weird timing on some moves, I don't feel like I'm playing something where I stand a fair chance, it feels like they just want to see how much people will put up with.

#47 Posted by Aetheldod (3627 posts) -

@shalashaskauk666: I found that you attcak and wait around the time you could do a roll to be the time when you can do the foward heavy attack.
It is sad that you arent enjoying the game as much as I am , I think Im being able to do the foward attack more often than in DS 1 :D

#48 Posted by Zevvion (2082 posts) -

A lot of small changes that need getting used to, but I'm managing. I do think the life gems are more or less useless though. They seem to take longer than Estus to complete the animation and then they also take much longer to regain health. You can still move while using them, contrary to estus, but the movement is slowed and I haven't encountered an enemy that easily caught up with me in that movement anyway.

There is only one thing I hate and that is more boss fights that obviously are designed for co-op. I'm not having fun on those.

Other than that, enjoying the game.

#49 Edited by Fredchuckdave (5714 posts) -

@jkz: Yeah just skip him; or equip a shitload of fire resistance. There's a lever that dampens the fire in the building, just follow that route and you're on your way to a much more enjoyable boss fight.

#50 Posted by Random45 (1233 posts) -

I hate that I have to wait until April 25th and these forums are going to be clogged up with nothing but Dark Souls talk until then.

Hahaha, isn't this the god damn truth.

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