Okay, so I don't want to get flamed for being "that guy" but I dislike the PvP in souls games. I also don't have much interest in co-op. That said, I don't want to disconnect because I do like the other network features (notes, bloodstains, and health bonuses from message likes).

I noticed the item Way of White Circlet which seems to reestablish PvP/Co-op abilities if you have been disconnected during multiplayer sessions. So, I know it's considered dickish to disconnect when being invaded, but if I do this enough it seems like it will prevent future invasions (and also not allow me to summon or invade). I'm okay with being not allowed to summon, especially if I can reverse that with this item should I change my mind.

My main question is if doing this puts me completely offline, as in I also won't see bloodstains, messages, and phantoms. If so, I'll just deal with the PvP or just go offline. The other question is how many times would I have to disconnect before it would ban me from multiplayer? I hate doing it that way, there should just be a toggle considering I know I'm not alone in wanting to play solo. I wouldn't want to have to disconnect on more than a few invaders to get what I want here, but I can't imagine it kicks you on the first or second offence.

If you don't want to be invaded, don't be embered.

I don't know how many disconnects it takes to get yourself banned, but anecdotally it seems to take more than just one or two. It's my understanding that once you are banned, you're effectively forced into offline mode, meaning you miss out on ALL online features, including PvP, Co-op, bloodstains, messages, etc. The ban appears to be character-based, so you can either lift the ban by using the Way of White circlet (which may be a limited availability item that you cannot keep reacquiring indefinitely) or abandoning that character and creating a new one.

I think the two best options that you have to choose from if you want to avoid PvP are:

1. play as normal but never use Embers and always suicide after having your ember automatically restored after killing a boss (this is like playing only while Hollowed in Dark Souls 1: you can't summon for co-op and you can't be invaded, but you do get messages and other online interactions)
2. simply play the game in offline mode from the main menu

This is what I've been doing. In a couple of the past Souls games I just played offline entirely but I do enjoy messages and bloodstains and those aspects. I just take the health hit all game long.

play offline

also you are wrong =p

@r3beld0gg said:

You lose out on all online features for that character, yes.

If it's anything like Dark Souls 2, it's about 20 times, and your number of disconnects can reset or go down after a bunch of hours of play time without a disconnect. I'm not sure if it's the exact same system, but you can check if you are beyond that threshold by trying to use the Way of White item, as "use" will be grayed out if you are still connected. As far as I can tell, it's one item per character.

I don't think "stay unembered" is a good answer, as you have less total health in that state. I like these games a lot and PVP has never been much of a problem, but I'll still hold that there really needs to be a way to avoid invasions without going completely offline and without other disadvantages.

Invasions are part of the game. If someone is so against the PVP, they can play offline. If they want online functionality, invasions are part of that. I think allowing a consequence free way to remove the threat of invasions without losing any other online features would be against the spirit of the series.

I've been playing offline because I'm not subscribed to PS+ at the moment and honestly I keep forgetting that I am offline. I never really worry about summons, although I do miss PvP.

I honestly forget that there should be bloodstains and notes. So by all means try playing offline and see how it goes.

You need to choose between missing out on bloodstains and notes or choosing to not use embers.

Not using embers is probably the thing you want to do here. The extra health isn't too much and you'll lose it if you die anyway.

I've killed over 70 people in PvP so far. I am your worst nightmare. Don't DC when I invade, that's rude. It's my time as well as yours, and the game will crash (on pc) more often than not if the other person just dc's. You don't want to be invaded, well then, don't go human, or take part in one of the many covenants that help you prevent it.

Or play offline. You got options that don't involve being a spoilsport, my friend. Folks invading are at a serious disadvantage in terms of stats and healing items as is.

- From the other side of the mirror.

That's how I feel about it. I just don't enjoy the PvP gameplay at all and I'm willing to take the hit (plus I want to beat every possible thing without summoning if I can). I probably grind out HP more than those who don't play this way but whatever, that's the cost.

Not too mention that, at least in my experience, the matchmaking tends to heavily favor invaders getting matched against people that already have co-op partners in their games. Almost all my invasion attempts have been 2v1 or 3v1 in favor of the player I was invading. Occasionally there'd be multiple invaders, but every time I've seen that happen it ended up as a 3v2 in favor of the host player.

Just want to also offer some extra info: simply getting invaded directly (forcibly via red invaders) almost never happens in your first playthrough. Especially at launch, there are far too many people just playing the game normally and only a few PVPers in relative numbers. Most people will go a whole game without ever being invaded this way. It was the same in Darksouls 2. You got opened up to PvP mostly at NG+. I'm yet to be invaded in the normal way for example despite playing online and always being embered up, in 35 hours now.

The only real threat of constant invasions in your first playthrough comes from "guardian" type covenants that operate in a specified area. Like the belltowers in DS2. In said specific areas you will get invaded all the time if you are embered. But only if you are embered. So imo play online and embered up all you want, and if you die in a certain place to a non red player invader just don't re-ember during that place (or go offline for that part). If you don't mind slight spoilers here the name of the place in the early game where it happens: Road of Sacrifices if you want to just avoid PvP in it straight away.

@ll_exile_ll: Yep. One the rare occurrences I get to outnumber a host, it's been after going through at least 2 phantoms, if not considerably more. I really enjoy the challenge of it, even at best it's a matter of going up against a fella who has double the amount of healing items you do, but it does make the arguments against invasions fall kind of flat for me, what with me having to win an uphill battle each and every time.

I like invasions, they are pretty decent side content, but can there be some kind of fuckin' timeout when I enter an area I've never even set foot in? Two times now I've just been invaded while having just set foot in a new zone, we're talking seconds here. I haven't found a bonfire yet, barely know what the zone even is, am just taking in the beautiful art for the first time, can I not have Mr. xXx420blazeitxXx coming in to crash the party? Like jesus man, give it a couple fuckin' minutes at least, christ. They are spawning in areas of the zone I've never seen or don't even know exist.

@tennmuerti: I have been invaded multiple times in every area so far during my first playthrough. Where are you getting your data that most people will never get invaded?

@mike: In DS2 and Bloodborne this got borne out and was apparent with time and peoples feedback and experiences. In this game my own experience, anecdotal on forums, streamers, the general trend has been very similar to past entries.

But I know what you mean and yea I don't have any concrete data to back me up, just anecdotal information and past way it was handled. So hey I might be totally wrong indeed.

I'm actually surprised to hear you've been invaded so much outset of designated covenant areas. Have you invaded anyone yourself at any point? Or go through areas co-op?

Play offline is the best advice I can offer. You don't see messages and bloodstains but to me those have never made a difference anyways. You can still summon NPCs during boss battles and for the most part they still are just as tanky as they were in the previous two games. If you absolutely must play online, then try having your covenant be the Way of Blue. When the system works, a Blue Sentinel player will be summoned in with the purpose of repelling the invader. Granted this never worked well in Dark Souls 2 with the Blue Sentinels player bound to being summoned into the area they were in currently, but with the change that they can be summoned into other areas so long as they are part of the covenant, it should be easier to get a blue phantom fighting for the player now. This still retains inherent flaws to the system, as players have to have the Blue Sentinels as their active covenant and be within the soul level range of the player in trouble to be summoned, creating a scenario where players wanting PvP are likely to be hostile phantoms for instant action and easy prey over being a blue phantom and waiting to be summoned.

I'm also going to say that players in the camp of "not wanting to be part of the PvP experience but wants to remain online" are a vital part of the PvP ecosystem. As I see it, the point of the Blue Sentinels is to help out less PvP-savvy players by acting as an invader who works for them. For those actively wanting to participate in PvP, there are plenty of other covenants to facilitate this, and for them the Way of Blue would be a poor choice. Therefore, I think the Way of Blue covenant only matters to whose who wish to participate in PvP and instead act as a catalyst for those who do by way of facilitating blue/red phantom engagements under ideal circumstances.

I also don't particularly like being invaded mostly because I hate being diverted from what I'm trying to do but I've just been playing dead and having a fine time, When I beat a boss I just keep going embered until I die and just don't re-ember. Only thing I've used embers for is once or twice before boss fights for extra health or sell them for souls when i need a little bit more to get a level. playing this way I've barely been invaded, maybe once or twice, I would definitely recommend playing dead over playing offline as the other online features are some of the most fun parts of the game, not to mention the number of times I've been healed by a message at opportune moments. Somewhat unrelated but it's also super fun to go back near bosses I've already beat and leave coop signs and go and lay waste to them with other people.

Don't agree with this at all. The creators of this game require you to be in the PvP ecosystem in order to take advantage of the benefits of online play. That is how they designed the game, and it is very much intentional. There certainly doesn't "need" to be a way to circumvent the intentional design of the developers. That is ridiculous.

As someone who has tried his hand at invading this game, it seems like the deck is stacked in such a way that I mostly matched up with players who already have a phantom or three to help them out... which usually leads to me immediately getting surrounded and murdered. I've had a few fun experiences playing as a mad phantom (Some fun 1v1v1 stuff where I got my invasion item by killing the red phantom and left the player alone), but for the most part it's been a lot of me getting murdered in a 2v1 or even 3v1 situation. Hell, I'm pretty sure some of those players quickly changed their covenant to Way of the Blue as soon as I invaded and then had a sentinel show up a minute or two later.

In other words, invasions aren't actually that scary and I think the players who are afraid of that stuff are more afraid of the idea than the reality, which is a dude with half as many estus flasks and an un-embered amount of health who can quickly be dispatched if you gang up on them.

@mike: Speak of the devil, right after I post this and go back to playing I get invaded by a straight up red phantom all of a sudden. Me and my big mouth :/

The only time I stayed Embered for more than just popping one right before a boss I was invaded in a new area I was first entering (part of Undead Settlement) probably after only like 5-10 minutes of being Embered. So that's all I can say about that from my game. I stopped using the item pretty much all together after that.

I've played for over 30 hours while playing almost exclusively embered and I have never - not once - been invaded beyond the NPC invaders, so I don't think its that much of a problem.

There's always a ton of complicated matchmaking stuff going on beyond the scenes in these games. Moreso in this one since there seems to be about a billion PvP factions the differences between which seem kinda fuzzy. That said, I read somewhere that if you've invaded, you're also more likely to be invaded. That tends to keep the PvP nuts together while letting mostly solo folks not have to engage with it.

@lawgamer: Where did you read that? I've been reading everything I can get my hands on regarding the multiplayer matchmaking in this game, and that hasn't come up once yet.

First off, I'm just going to say that my choice will be to go offline if invasions become too annoying for me. I'm not trying to ruin anyone else's fun, but it is my choice if I decide to jump off of a cliff or disconnect rather than deal with the PvP. The developers may have made the choice to design the game this way, but it is bad for everyone involved when someone like myself who doesn't want to engage with it at that moment just decides to quit out. That's the reality of it. I have that choice, however dicky it might be. It's my game. It seems like the best solution would be to allow players to opt out of invasions if they want without losing out on the other basic online functions. Don't punish players for not wanting to engage with something. Give us a reason to engage with it. Maybe a reward after repelling X number of invaders. At least take the sting out of losing by not making me drop my souls. Maybe a good solution is to let players who invade be more likely to be invaded. That way, the PvP crowd will kind of gravitate together some. That's better for them, as well. You WANT to PvP with someone who is into it, right?

It's not so much a fear of invasions. I dealt with invaders in Bloodborne and it was fine. It's more the annoyance of being invaded when I have 45 minutes to play and just want to explore an area or farm, etc... It sucks to get into a new area and get invaded and killed right after you've cleared a tough enemy. I'm more likely to just turn the game off at that point rather than redo an area.

I don't have that much of an issue with the invasion mechanic. I just would prefer to play alone. If that means I have to go offline, then that's what I'll choose to do, but not everyone will make that choice. That leaves a bad situation for everyone engaging in PvP. My original question was just aimed at the possibility of being banned from PvP/Co-Op without losing other network functions. If I had to drop out on three to five people, so be it. But if it's more than that or it completely kills online functionality, then going offline is the solution if invasions start to piss me off.

I would assume you use a lot of the embers to get your health higher? I don't use them myself. Just when I beat a boss, and then when I die I don't use them. This is how I always do my first play through. I save PVP for after I've experienced the game. I assume, and this is just speculation based on comments I've read around the net, this is how most people play their first time also. They only use the embers when they want to be able to summon for co-op. Most people seem to have a big fear of being invaded. So they don't use the item that allows for it.

The PVP crowd already does gravitate together by summoning invaders through signs.

@sterling: No, I use embers because I like doing co-op and PVP mixed in with my normal progression. Definitely no shortage of Embers since you pick up so many from the ground and get them as rewards for defeating bosses in co-op. I have about 40 right now.

@mike: Right. My point was you are using them. So you are embered. Which means you are more likely to be invaded than most people in their first play through. Which is why you have been twice, and most people on here have not been invaded once. And yeah there are a ton of them. Since I don't use them I have a bunch saved up for NG+. I think I currently have 61 or something close to that.

But its o' so fun. I like being with the Blue Sentinels and coming to the rescue of people who get invaded. In other words, ganging up on the invader and kicking his ass.

@handlas: I haven't had a chance to get very far into the game, but I've heard something about the Blue Sentinels thing before. I'll need to look into that and see what's up with it. If I can just call in a hero to save my candy ass, that'd be great. :)

Hoping to be able to get in an hour or two here soon.

They have been in past games but it never did anything for me. I guess people weren't being invaded as much.

But, it seems to automatically summon me to games of people that are invaded. Im not sure if the person that is invaded is also in the Blue Sentinels as well. You find them fairly early on... something you can't miss if I remember correctly.

@handlas: So Blue Sentinels is actually working in this game? It only worked once for me in DS2. In like 200 hours of game play, lol. If its working I'm going to put that patch on. I always loved the concept of that covenant. And the ones you get summoned to are those in The Way of the Blue. That is the "meek" covenant that the Sentinels protect. I've also read that there is another convent like the BS but they are rivals with the BS, and you can have special pvp with them.

Same... it never did anything in DS2 for me. I've been summoned in DS3 a good 5-6 times and I've only been in the covenant for an hour or so. Might be because I'm in the area that you find them so maybe it's more prominent there.

@sterling: That isn't what Tennmuerti was getting at at all.

See. If I was playing offline I would miss out on important, game changing messages like this one. It really helps to immerse me in the world finding poetry such as this.

@r3beld0gg: A classic for the ages.

Meanwhile, the multiplayer for the PC version of DS1 is down for some inexplicable reason.

@mike: No, but its what I was.

I really fail to see how people hate the invasion system so much. Is it that hard just to see an invading player as a very hard enemy? It also makes no sense to me how people like @r3beld0gg say they choose to jump off a cliff instead of engaging the invading player. You're getting the same result as if the player killed you, why not try and fight them? you might actually kill them. You're going to lose your progress by jumping off the cliff anyway.

Like others have said, there's so many systems in place to go against an invading player what is it about yet another death in a Souls game that's so bad? You've already died numerous times and you will die a bunch more as you continue you play. How is this any different? What is it about the fact that it's another person that's killing you compared to just a normal monster? Is it a pride thing? Is there some perceived shame for losing to another person compared to the AI?

use the way of the blue covenant, darkmoon folks like me are looking for people to protect!

@baronsamedi: Personally, I don't hate the invasion system. It's more a matter of being forced to participate in PvP when I don't want to. My only real experience with a Souls game is Bloodborne. I only played a little DS1 and didn't get far enough for invasions to be an issue. I haven't been invaded yet in DS3, so I base my feelings really just off of my experience with BB. I think I killed most of the invaders I met in Bloodborne. It's not a matter of being beaten or beating them. I simply don't like it in my game.

I'm not particularly good at these games, but what I enjoy is learning an area and the enemies in it and getting better at clearing through it over time. Enemies always respawn in the same place and follow the same behaviors. Like clockwork, almost. I may just be trying to farm for souls, half dead after a 14 hour work day. I'm just killing an hour before bed. Or I may be exploring a new area and have a ton of souls on me, I'm searching for the next bonfire. Here comes xXBLaYZe420Xx and I'm out of estus. It's just a bummer when you don't want to deal with it. I don't find PvP fun.

All that said, I'll repeat that I will face the invader head on. I'm not going to disconnect from every PvP encounter. The original post was because I was wondering if there was a way to get banned from PvP without losing other online functionality. If there was, I would have opted to do that because it suits the way I want to play MY game. Turns out it doesn't work the way I'd like, so it's a moot point.

To address the comment about the cliff... I did that ONCE in Bloodborne. I was right by a bonfire and the fight was taking FOREVER. We were just back and forth, healing, fighting, wasting ammo... I got tired of it and jumped so I could get on with my game, since I knew my souls would be right outside the cave. I was just making the point that some people (besides myself) don't want PvP and will disconnect, etc. to avoid it. That's bad for the invader and the host, and I wish From had a better solution for all involved. Incentivize PvP for both sides, but allow players to opt out of invasions. The down side to opting out could be that you can't get whatever prizes you can obtain through invading. Or don't allow co-op, either, if you opt out of invasions. And you can't change your mind until you kindle another bonfire or beat an area boss or obtain an expensive item. So you'd better be sure about your choice.

Short answer, I don't hate the invasion system. I could just do without it because I don't like playing with other people in general. But I do like the notes, phantoms, etc...

Blue Sentinels work. I joined when the opportunity came up and I've been summoned into 4 worlds to help out. Only had it for a couple of hours, but it might happen more if I wasn't getting invaded so often. I'm always in Ember form so I'm always a target for invasions. I have not invaded yet, but I still get invaded quite a bit.

@golguin: I had it active for 2.5 hours tonight while playing. It was flashing. But I wasn't once summoned. Maybe I'm too high level now for people who actually use way of the blue? I'm level 55. But I'm pretty far into the game now.

Is there no guild that limits invasions? I think it was the first guild you get in DS1 that limited invasions, the one you get from Petrus(can't think of the name of it). I don't think it's cool to force pvp if people don't want it, also going hollow worked in the first game not sure about this one. I'm playing the second game now, and i love the red summon signs so if you want to pvp you can dual.

I'm 30 hours in and have yet to be invaded. You probably shouldn't worry about it.

If you don't enjoy pvp but want online benefits you should join the way of the blue. I play as a blue sentinel because I enjoy pvp combat but don't like the idea of invading people and ruining their day. The biggest issue I have is that there aren't enough way of blue members for me to help on a regular basis. I've almost beaten the game and have only been summoned for aide maybe 20 times.

@r3beld0gg: Perhaps this is what you're looking for?

I do agree that being invaded sucks and I'd like to have the advantage of seeing messages and bloodstains and ghosts (or whatever you call those invisible outlines of other players) without also having to worry about being invaded, but I'll take an offline option.

@justin258: I realize that there is the option to play offline, as I've stated here already. For now I'm still playing online. If invasions become too much of an issue, then I'd just go offline and lose the other features. My question was regarding getting banned from co-op and invasions if you regularly disconnected. It looked like I could get myself banned from any matchmaking without losing access to notes, etc., but now I think you just lose all network connectivity, which I don't want. I can deal with invasions, and if they come too often I will just go offline. I just wish there was another option.