@ahaisthisourchance said:

I bet this "outrage" mostly comes from new players on the 360 platform.

Don't know if you're serious, but the thread and petition the OP linked to in another thread blamed the developers for "making the game multiplatform" as the main reason to why it sucks so much compared to Demon's Souls. So no, I don't think you can blame "new players on the 360 platform" this time at least.

@MetalMoog: Actually, Demon's souls was separated regionally, where as this is not. So there's the same amount of separation, just inverted. Now the regions aren't separated, but you could be separated from other players in the region. (Also, Demon's Souls originally had 2 US servers that split the region anyway. They were merged sometime near the first "we're going to shut down the Demon's Souls servers" Thing, so this isn't new. At all.)

I guess I can understand people wanting to play with their friends only. That is not what this game is, however.

If they add it later, great. If they don't, that is their decision.

I'm of the opinion that you're entitled to like or dislike a game as you see fit, however, I feel you are not entitled to complain to the developer for something that is part of their design, rather than a bug or glitch.

Just because the way the dev's made the game systems doesn't match what you want, doesn't mean they need to change it, if it's not broken.

@ModerateViolence: Snobbery is one way to go, I suppose. All I really want is for people to realize that games are not meant to be all things to all people, nor should they try to be.

The no chat rage was lame. This is not so lame. It doesn't come from a bunch of people who want the game to be a different game - it comes from a bunch of people who were passionate about the first game and had their expectations set by that game. Most of the people who are upset are from the hardcore Demon's Soul audience - this means it's going to be a small group relative to the sells of Dark Souls, but also an extremely vocal group and in large part the same group that was so vocal that Demon's Souls became a hit and generated this sequel. Then they have new players joining the chorus just because they are used to lobby systems so they don't get it.

So no, it's not like somebody who watches a comedy movie and gets pissed that it wasn't an action film. It's more like a hardcore Star Wars fan who doesn't like Jar Jar Binks...or something. But I guess I have to admit that what they are trying to do really is consistent with what they intended with Demon's Souls...it's just that you could easily get around it in Demon's Souls and now you can't.

It's not meant to be a co-op game, give it up.

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Hailinel said:

@SeriouslyNow: That doesn't even work as a retort. The context is completely wrong.

Substitute zippers with Androgyny, Shitty Gameplay, Poor story telling, awful fans. Take your pick.

Still doesn't work as a retort.

Don't really see much difference between the way it works here and the way it worked in Demon's Souls. Demon's Souls you had to not be in soul form, once the boss was defeated you were taken out of the other person's game, etc.

A few of those things are even told to you in the menu if you click on the info about the white soap stone.

It was never easy to be summoned in Demon's Souls either... I put down soul signs several times and would never be summoned. There were a couple of places, it seemed, where people would always summon you tho...or you could wait awhile and a couple of soul signs would appear. Genearally at the beginning of levels. So, perhaps the structure of this game just makes it a bit more difficult (having no hub world)

To be honest, the only reason I wanted to buy Dark Souls was because a group of my friends wanted to play it together. I'm glad I saw stuff like this before I bought it.

@zoner said:

@ModerateViolence said:

Like somebody else said, why do all games have to be accessible to everyone, not every film is made with every audience in mind, this has always bothered me about games, people say they're a gamer and assume all games are for them, I'm very much into movies but I wouldn't assume all movies are made for me and I really wouldn't go online and complain that they should be. I find it really odd.

Because Joe Schmoe wants to get in on the action but he wants his hand held. Demon's Souls 2 will have CTF.

24/7 CTF_CapraDemon !!!INSTANT RESPAWN!!!

@Mordukai: Uhh.. how is this any different then Demons Souls? It looks exactly the same with very minor changes.

The whole point of the multiplayer is the souls games I feel is to create a sense of anonymity between the players. The ghosts, bloodstains, messages and even summoning have this feel to them that anyone and everyone might be in the game with you. I like that feeling. I dont like the constant invasions that happened once people started making PvP characters in Demon's Souls. I'm glad they seem to have tried to limit this, but they have also limited the coop aspect of the game as well. I dont really like that, but they should go as far as allowing multiple people play in the same world whenever and wherever they want (just not directly choosing who those players are and keeping it random). Just scale the game up accordingly.

I wish they added a separate game mode that just dropped you into a game world with 1-3 other players in it. A quick match if you will. Separate character, leaderboard, etc.

@CL60 said:

@Mordukai: Uhh.. how is this any different then Demons Souls? It looks exactly the same with very minor changes.

it looks very similar but if you read further you realize it's not. The main change to formula is that -/+ 10% of host level which limits the number of player you can interact with. The formula in Demon's Souls was Host Level x 0.1 +10. The result would indicate the level range of people you can interact with.

For Example: A level 40 character in Demon's Souls can summon/invade 26-54 players. In Dark Souls a level 40 character can interact with a 36-44 players.

This topped with the way the new online system works severely limits the online play. They just introduced too many variables to the system that not only limits online play with friends but limits any online play. Why even bother putting an online system if your going to limit it to the point where it's almost useless? I understand they were going for the loneliness, depressing blah blah blah, but people who want to PvP are not looking for that.

Now don't me wrong mate. I like this game very much. From Software created something very unique but it amazes me on how they essentially tuned their back on an entire community. I know they did not mean for that in Demon's Souls but don't they realize it succeeded the way it because of that community?

There's a reason I played Demon's Souls for over 500 hours, and there's a reason I got excited every time I logged in. I don't know if you ever a part of it but the community torments were the most fun I had in any online game I have ever played. So now there's really no reason for me to play the game once I'm done with the single play. I am not one of those who has to have every freaking item in them game for the sake of heaving it. I fear this game will not have the longevity demon's has (that is until they close the servers).

The Solution:

• Raise the ping cap so people with less then idle internet can also enjoy the online components.
• Add a "Free Roam" mode where you can invite specific people to your world but have a restriction to your item drops and your level progression.
• Add an Arena somewhere in the world, undead Burg seems the most idle, where people can come for the sole purpose of PvP.

I only ever used the co-op feature once myself in Demon's Souls to beat a Boss. I joined a couple of times. I believe it was the second to last boss in the main dungeon.

As far as I can tell, online is handled much like in Demon's Souls. It's not a multiplayer game. The multiplayer aspect is merely the special sauce. That magic that makes it more than just a hard and unforgiving 3rd hack 'n slash RPG.

I guess I'll 'kindle' for the first time now and open myself up to invasions. But after 8 hours of play, I need a some passive entertainment first. So bloody exciting (and stressful). Never hollowed thus far though. Always banking my souls conservatively.

@Seppli said:

I only ever used the co-op feature once myself in Demon's Souls to beat a Boss. I joined a couple of times. I believe it was the second to last boss in the main dungeon.

As far as I can tell, online is handled much like in Demon's Souls. It's not a multiplayer game. The multiplayer aspect is merely the special sauce. That magic that makes it more than just a hard and unforgiving 3rd hack 'n slash RPG.

I guess I'll 'kindle' for the first time now and open myself up to invasions. But after 8 hours of play, I need a some passive entertainment first. So bloody exciting (and stressful). Never hollowed thus far though. Always banking my souls conservatively.

Yeah I agree with this sentiment that a lot of people are having.

For the vast majority multiplayer has remained unchanged. Trading on forums is probably done for though.

The only spot this hurts people is if they were hellbent on setting PvP tournaments and the like. That's done for more or less, but I never joined one and I can still fight random dudes just like in Demons Souls

@Louise_Cypher said:

The Solution:

• Raise the ping cap so people with less then idle internet can only enjoy the online components.
• Add a "Free Roam" mode where you can invite specific people to your world but have a restriction to your item drops and your level progression.
• Add an Arena somewhere in the world, undead Burg seems the most idle, where people can come for the sole purpose of PvP.

Only the arena makes sense....

But honestly they didn't want to make that type of game.

i really like the idea of the multiplayer, however my own inability to find and hold onto my humanity points and to keep human form really limits what i can do with it, anyone got any handy hints about how to gather humanity better? iv tried leaving my summoning mark around the church area, but it either dissapears or i die before anyone tries to summon me, would the best idea just be to wait by it until im summoned? also im about level 24 at the minute so judging by the calculations posted earlier i have characters between levels 22 and 26 that can summon me, that may be a little high for the bell tower fight, any ideas where i might wanna try instead? thanks for any input in advance, really wanna play a bit of coop, even if it is just helping others do the bosses, when i summoned the NPC to the bell tower fight seemed hella fun, unfortunatly i died, so couldnt resummon him, managed to win the fight alone though (eventually, haha)

People complain about multiplayer for such a game is just silly to me. I rather time be used to make the best single player experiance you can get than waste resources on a half baked co-op or pvp.

I am pretty much experiencing the same awesome multiplayer of demons souls. Not sure why everyone is bitching

if namco's answer is anything other than a middle finger, the messed up.

@StingerMK2 said:

i really like the idea of the multiplayer, however my own inability to find and hold onto my humanity points and to keep human form really limits what i can do with it, anyone got any handy hints about how to gather humanity better? iv tried leaving my summoning mark around the church area, but it either dissapears or i die before anyone tries to summon me, would the best idea just be to wait by it until im summoned? also im about level 24 at the minute so judging by the calculations posted earlier i have characters between levels 22 and 26 that can summon me, that may be a little high for the bell tower fight, any ideas where i might wanna try instead? thanks for any input in advance, really wanna play a bit of coop, even if it is just helping others do the bosses, when i summoned the NPC to the bell tower fight seemed hella fun, unfortunatly i died, so couldnt resummon him, managed to win the fight alone though (eventually, haha)

I started several new builds and both in Undead Burg and Undead Parish (after you get your summon soapstone) you can throw down your sign and assist others in beating those 2 bosses, you don't have to be human) Others Just wanna get through those two bosses quickly and summoning seems quick and in undead burg 3 can take on the knight guarding the tearstone ring and HAVEL before going to the boss (of course we usually get invaded because of the time to defeat all b4 traversing the fog). For each successful ASSIST in beating the boss you get a humanity and souls. I built up about 12 souls upper left circle in an hour. See,ms to be a lot of invasions in both places now that I try to stay human and the summoners are trying to get through quickly and need help cause sometimes invaders are better equiped . I summoned for both early bosses with these new builds so HAVEL's ring and tearstone would be mine early.

I just want to co-op with a friend can't figure this stuff out, we are the same levels we both put down soap stones but can't see each others, wish I could just "join session in progress" like any other game on the xbox.

Dark souls should not be played in CO-OP it will lose 95% of its appeal. If you want to play with people play some COD^^

Play some COD? All games are more fun with friends I'm already like 15 hours in so just want to try out some co-op with a mate who is in the same part of the game. We managed to figure it out anyway, so much more fun wish they built the option in more easily like "join session in progress" it takes nothing away from people that want to play single player anyway. I Hope Dark Souls 2 has in built in, really reminds me of a Monster Hunter with better combat in co-op.

@commandergermanshepard:

Dark Souls is a very weird beast when it comes to multiplayer. This guide was built for PC players but everything still applies to people on consoles: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=121233892

#1 is the most common issue I had summoning/getting summoned:

1. The host must be human (The client can be human or undead) and WITHIN 15% + 10 Whole Number Soul Levels above or below the client. (i.e. SL 65 could summon SL 83, but not SL 84(9.75+10=19.75+65=84.75)) The area boss must still be alive.

I've stupidly tried for hours trying to get a summon after forgetting to make myself human. Being overlevelled for an area is also really detrimental to summoning. Good luck, duder!

If you don't have anything useful to add, kindly say nothing at all.

While darji said it in an unfortunate way, he is right. Dark Souls is not about co-op. Dark Souls is about the thrill of the unknown. Meaning- you shouldn't know the person you summon, and most of the time it should be a single player experience. You could play it co-op, and there are mods to do so, but you'll sadly lose an interesting and unique part of the game.

Yup, Dark Souls just isn't really a game for playing co-op with your buddies, Darji said it like an asshole, but truth is - even as someone who doesn't play much Dark Souls (I will get back to it someday) - it feels like people who complain about having trouble hooking up with a friend through the game are kind of missing the point.

Also, this was a weird bump.

I should really play my copy before online dies....

I just don't know where/how to start and/or should I just say fuck it and go blind. I don't know if that'll work.

If you play it on the PC online will not die do not worry.

Also IU said it that harsh because I am fed up with people wanting Co-op in every fucking game. Dark Souls is a game you need to experience as it was intended. Being able to hook up with a friend is destroying the whole concept of the game. It is like cheating.

Ugh, xbox gamers. It was totally fine when Demon's souls was on Playstation 3...leave it to xbox crybabies to complain.

Playing Dark Souls with friends is fun, you dorks are missing out by playing the game "THE RIGHT WAY".

I seriously hope you are joking.

All I want for the multiplayer is to make it easier for the other factions to PVP. Dark Wraith is the only faction I use, cause of this.

It's easy enough to get friends into your game, but sometimes it can be a massive pain in he ass with connection issues. I totally understand why there wasn't an outright option to invite friends, but at a certain point I just want to play the game with people I know. Maybe make it so that in Dark Souls 2 that you can invite friends in New Game+ or something.

Except in Demons Souls you could just put your sign down in an out of the way location and 9/10 times your friend would see it. Playing Demons Souls with a friend was pretty easy if you wanted to, and a lot of Demons Souls players were pretty upset at how horribly broken the summoning system was at the launch of Dark Souls.

Also anyone saying that playing with your buddy completely defeats the purpose didn't seem to understand the whole summoning mechanic. The whole concept of summon signs is that you can get someone else to come help you out in the game. Dark Souls isn't meant to be experienced exclusively as a solitary journey. If that is how you want to play it you can, but if you want to summon others into your world that is also perfectly acceptable. Whether they are your friends or complete strangers seems to be splitting hairs, as you'll still be receiving aid from another human being as part of the entire co-op game mechanic.

You do not seem to understand that this is supposed to anonymously. It is the same with Journey. Having a a normal co-op mode would defeat the whole purpose of the game and the world. But despite this the worst thing you can do is using voice chat. If you really do that you do not deserve to play another Dark Souls.

The biggest shortcoming of the Souls games, and this only really started with the mainstream success of Dark Souls, are the strange and arbitrary "rules" that dedicated players have started to impose on themselves and others in order to define how to "properly" play the game.

This is why I cannot wait for Xbonerland to become a reality.

shortcoming??? It's a forte. If you want to play Dark souls the casual xbox way, go ahead but don't litter the Dks community with those garbage statements.

Darji Is correct. This game is meant to be similar to Demon's Souls. There was never a co-op feature for friends on the console. It was a "summon" someone and hope they dont just suck. To have multiple people you know & can speak with will destroy the multiplayer part of the game which is to be invaded randomly. Now if you and your friends are sitting around waiting to gank the "ganker" then this destroys the view of the game and what makes it fun / challenging. Co-op is to be left with other games. Souls games done need shit like "invite" a friend.

Im in the anonymity camp. I dont think playing with friends should really be a thing in Dark Souls. Sorry,but its not designed like that.

This is one of the most cringeworthy things I have seen posted on these forums, along with darji "you don't deserve to play dark souls". holy shit hahaha

Yes, this. I'm really sick of people trying to tell me how to play Dark Souls. They can play it how they want, adding a real coop option takes nothing from their experience if they opt not to use it. Personally I like my games to make advances in functionality, not the opposite.

Yes it does. Just because you can does not mean you should. You are not the game designer. You are breaking the game just because you think its more fun without but sometimes games mechanics should not be fun sometimes believe it or not games should feel isolated and dangerous. Playing dark souls is like playing a game like Amnesia with co op and lights on.

Just like The journey this isolated experience is what makes dark souls special. What will you do next? Play it offline without getting be able to invaded while using a FAQ while listening to custom Dubsteb music?

It would seem that the PC version can be modded so that it's easier to summon friends into your game. If you're willing to drop the cash and able to play the PC version I'd recommend it. Once you implement fixes it really is quite a decent PC port.

Also, @darji: ^^;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

Opinions: everybody has them and none of them are right.

No actually it is totally different. You could easily set up co op sessions with buddies or pvp matches with others in Demon's Souls with some, but not much, hassle. There are times where conditions can make it literally impossible for you to play with a specific friend in Dark Souls, and good luck finding a specific phantom to summon for pvp. You can follow all the rules you want, thanks to how they do servers and the convoluted rules around the factions it is a total crap shoot.

The PC version is generally the best version with the resolution fix and he 60 FPS enabled but with 60 FPS it is really fast so you need to adjust your style a bit. Also I think the PC version is the version you will find tons of people.

This is some seriously narrow-minded shit. If people weren't willing to push games and break them past their intended design, we'd never see improvements. The combo system used in literally every fighting game stems from players exploiting Street Fighter II bugs and playing it in ways that weren't intended. Game developers are not perfect and their vision is not absolute. It's sad to see that fans of a game with emergent gameplay being so critical of that very kind of gameplay.

And what does it matter if I use FAQs and listen to rap while playing games? Why does this bother you? There is no right way to play a game. It's an interactive medium and by that very nature the experience is dictated by the one playing, not necessarily the other way around.

You are not the game designer. You are not playing the game the way it was released, you are breaking it. You are obviously too casual to play Dark Souls, go back to COD.