The "I am new to Dota" Beginners Guide

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#1 Edited by IndieFinch (242 posts) -

More and more posts are popping up of new people trying out Dota 2 looking for assistance / want to learn the game. Rather then a ton of separate posts, why not have one topic.

To start off, Dota is an extremely high skill, competitive, and hard game. That being said, Dota is also one of the most strategic, exciting, and satisfying games to ever be created. It is also unique in that how much you enjoy the game will be based off how much you know / how skilled you are. If you dive right in, chances are you are going to have a bad time. So please please please, learn as much as you can, play some bot games, and ask a ton of questions before you begin to make a decision if you want to play the game or not. The first initial 100 hours will be rough, but everyone playing the game has been in the same point. But once you get over the initial hump, things will click and you will realize why people enjoy the game.

Rather then re-writing a guide, here is the best Dota guide ever written. Purge is one of the nicest and hardest working people in eSports, so please utilize his guide, his videos, and his stream to begin to learn the game. http://www.purgegamers.com/welcome-to-dota-you-suck#.UM4noG9E4ws

Some quick info that I would like to add on top of that. If you are new, here are the heros you want to start playing first. They are: Tidehunter, Venomancer, Sand King, Lion, Lich, Warlock, Vengeful Spirit, Crystal Maiden, Skeleton King, Centaur, Shadow Shaman, Windrunner, and Earthshaker. The reason being, all of these heros are generally easy to play but they each have a spell that is fantastic in helping your team win the game. In Dota, abilities will do the same set amount of damage as they say on the tool tip, they do not scale. So for example, a Tidehunter ultimate will be super effective all game long...no matter the items you get or kills you achieve. This is opposed to someone like Anti Mage, he is an agility based carry who is farm dependent. If Anti Mage starts off well and gets a bunch of items (Battlefury, Manta Style...etc) then he will absolutely crush his enemies. However if he does not achieve those items in a reasonable time, has a bad start, of doesn't get last hits...he will become an absolutely useless hero. As a new player you need time to learn the mechanics, the items, the heros, the map...etc thing that people are still learning a decade after Dota began. So start with the heros that allow you to be effect all game long without having the mechanics / knowledge required. You will have way more fun and will enjoy learning the game, rather then getting frustrated.

One last note, Dota is notoriously known as a game with a very hostile community. This is true, people can be very harsh on new players, but not everyone is. So do not let a few rotten apples ruin your time in the game. Please ask questions, utilize the guides out there, watch a ton of game...by doing all these you will have a way better time within Dota. It truly is one of the most beautifully crafted games out there.

If you are looking for more Dota info, check out the podcast I do called Dota Insight. We are working on creating guides for heros and catering questions / discussions towards newer players coming into the scene.

#2 Edited by Jimi (1126 posts) -

Here's a good albeit short overview of the game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akUNmFAzS98

While not for absolute beginners dota cinema has some good learn to play videos: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF50cvv4MhVrEdrQw2kGnJ7ag7eT1RfO2

They also do videos on every hero so you can see what skills they have and how they apply.

There's a great compilation of resources on reddit here: http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/qckss/new_players_reddits_compiled_guide_to_dota2/

#3 Posted by TheCrookedWarden (38 posts) -

Your heart's in the right place, but having new players use ES is a recipe for disaster. They can and will ruin teamfights with fissure, and their teammates will yell at them.

#4 Edited by gosukiller (2324 posts) -

A little bit of advice for new players:

1. Forget about winning your first 50 matches. Unless you are a veteran RTS/LoL/DotA player, alot of concepts in DotA2 will be alien to you.

2. Dont MIND losing. The reason the DotA community is sometimes known for having a vile playerbase is because alot of people are little shits about losing. It's about getting better every match, not winning each one (although that would be nice)

3. Someone being a little shit to you? IGNORE THEM! There is litterally an ignore button on the scoreboard, it's the 'sound icon' next to a persons name.

4. As a new player, try to pick ranged supports/gankers. Try to avoid farm-heavy carries untill you have last-hitting down 100%. My personal tips would be playing Windrunner, Jakiro, Lina and Lion.

These four heroes give you a basic idea of how to be an effective stunner, AoE damage dealer and a disabler. This is a quick way to learn how to be an effective team player.

5. Once you think you know the basiscs, try a new hero each game! Sure, you can 'stick with this one becaue he seems nice'. But then how will you get to know the rest of the line up if they are used against you? Know your enemy!

6. Read a guide to the hero that you want to pick. Preparation is half the work!

7. Find a friend. Got someone in your friendslist playing DotA? Give him a call! Most people in the DotA community are eager to teach, whatever reputation this game might have because of a few bad apples.

That's just some stuff from the top of my head. If you are European, add me at Renethetrue on steam.

#5 Posted by JackG100 (405 posts) -

Heroes for newbies are, from the top of my head: Dazzle, Warlock, Crystal Maiden, Lich, Lion, Lina, Twin-Head

If you are completely noob you should get one of those, go to a lane with an agility or strenght hero and babysit them. That means, protect them from the enemies, stop enemies from farming and help your friendly carry-hero to farm.

Get wards, put them up at the runes, or in places where enemies can get at you from.

Here is a good ward-guide.

Depending on the situation you might want to get a variety of things, what ability does your team need? Do you need some AoE-heal, then get a Meka. Does the enemy have a hero that is utterly horrible, get a guinsoo and turn him into a sheep. Expensive item though, if you let your friendly carry farm you probably wont be able to afford it early on.

Do not talk back to people whining at you, it will only make it worse. Pretend they are being constructive and try to learn from what they are actually upset about. Usually there is a reason you've pissed someone off by being a noob, it is ok though. Just learn from the experience, try and avoid making the same mistake. Sometimes people will whine on you even when you didnt do anything wrong, those people are dicks, you should ignore them completely.

There is a minimap, look at it often, is someone missing from a lane? Who is missing, is he coming to your lane? Perhaps you should back a little just to be sure. Also, is there an enemy who constantly pushes his lane so far that you could go in from the forest and stab him in the back? Try and organise some ganking-efforts to get the enemies to die. Excellent pasttime for after you planted those wards.

If you want to become a good player, trying to get good at one aspect of the game first is probably wisest. Id suggest supporting, it is a hard art to master, but once you do, everyone will love you. Also, if you know how to support well you can observe what the carries are doing and learn from that. Also, a bad support still supports and does good for the team. A bad carry-player is always going to be utterly useless.

Considering that there are 100 heroes or so in DotA, you will not know what all of them can do until until you spent at least 100 hours in the game or so. DotA is a hard game to get into, but it is a lot of fun once you do

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#6 Edited by Hungry (165 posts) -

I have to agree with , by telling people to play heroes like Earthshaker and Crystal Maiden you are asking for them to quit the game for being flamed to death. It isn't even about them fucking up their team but rather the proverbial lashing they will receive from their teammates for trapping them or keeping enemy heroes safe with Fissure. Earthshaker requires good farm (for blink) or good positioning and gamesense to play correctly, and new players won't be able to do either. If they play Crystal Maiden they have to deal with her lack of hit points, no escape, and abysmal movement speed.

The heroes I would suggest are (with accompanying Dota2Wiki links): Centaur DazzleJakiroLichKrobelusRubickTidehunterVenomancer

All of these heroes have a couple of things in common; They have pretty straight-forward abilities and lend themselves to letting you make a mistake or two before getting blown up. Venomancer, Jakiro, and Lich are a bit harder to keep alive but it is definitely easier than Crystal Maiden. All of these heroes are easy to pick up but have important skills they can teach you. Specifically in aggressiveness and a couple of important hero roles. Bonus points if you try and play heroes such as Leoric Sand Kingand if you really want to jump in Invoker (my personal favorite hero). Though I recommend not playing Invoker outside of a bot game.

Also I 100% agree and endorse Purge's Welcome To Dota: You Suck guide. It is really helpful for new players.

Maybe we should set up Giant Bomb in-house teaching games if people are interested?

#7 Posted by Cronus42 (275 posts) -

@Hungry said:

Maybe we should set up Giant Bomb in-house teaching games if people are interested?

This is a good idea. There's a GB chat Channel in game, if anyone is looking to learn a bit shout it out in there.

#8 Posted by Xeirus (1298 posts) -

I got into the beta the first day they started inviting people. I had played LoL for about 3ish years before that and I felt the game was so clunky and confusing.

Within the first 10 minutes, of the first game, of the FIRST DAY I already had someone completely flip out and tell me to go die and that I was the worst ever and to just leave the game and blah blah blah.

...this was the first day of beta mind you... first day. I uninstalled it and have no interest in ever going back. LoL serves me just fine when I need a MOBA :/

#9 Posted by aquamarin (555 posts) -

Just gonna jump out there and say it's too late for anyone new to get any fun out of MOBAs. Am I out of bounds with that statement?

#10 Posted by Mr_Skeleton (5144 posts) -

1) If you are new to the game, let your team know (I cannot stress this enough).

2) Join the ingame Giant Bomb chat room, there are a lot of great duders from GB playing the game.

3) don't forget to have fun. I know this game is very intimidating but in the end it's just a game and the most important thing you should do is have fun (also not dying is pretty important).

#11 Posted by JackG100 (405 posts) -

@aquamarin: Yes.

But there is certainly a learningcurve. And I think what pisses people off the most is that, unlike say Counter-Strike, when you play well and you have an utter noob in your team it kinda ruins the entire experience for you.

Matchmaking should take care of the worst troubles though, and match you against similarly skilled individuals, so it shouldnt be so bad.

Cant say that the LoL-community is any better than DotAs, I played both and LoL is a far inferior game to DotA, and I really mean FAR. It has way less depth, and the balance is way off. At least as far as public gaming goes.

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#12 Edited by Hungry (165 posts) -

@aquamarin:

Oh don't worry. Everyone talks about how much skill it takes to play Dota. But rest assured that 90+% of the people who play it are absolute garbage. Let me break it down for you.

Dota 2 sorts its matchmaking into three general tiers, of which have subsets within them. So we've got "Normal", "High", and "Very High." Normal represents ~86% of the playerbase. High represents ~12% and Very High the remaining 2%. I teeter on High/Very High and a lot of the people I see in the game are still not very good. When I play matchmaking with a couple of my friends who are new to the game (literally like 6 games played) I barely have to try to stomp a mudhole in the enemy team. Likewise, I just played 4 games and all of the people we played against were not very good at all. So I am within like 12-14% of the highest rated matchmaking players and I still commonly find people who aren't very good. You can come into this game new and not have to worry about getting stomped.

EDIT for forgetfulness: I would totally be down to lead a Dota in-house class or something for GB.

#13 Edited by EXTomar (4687 posts) -

A big thing that is never covered in videos and guides are the details which is where the devil lives:

- How the game interface works. How to setup a private practice match is not obvious.

- How the shop/upgrade works. This is particularly thorny to figure out for new players.

- General match dynamics. Most new players have no idea how long a "standard match" lasts and rush.

- How to delay attacks/time last hits.

- Which heroes are good to start with. Nothing crushes new player's spirits like trying Crystal Maiden or Invoker because they look neat and end up flailing about for the entire match.

#14 Edited by IndieFinch (242 posts) -

@aquamarin said:

Just gonna jump out there and say it's too late for anyone new to get any fun out of MOBAs. Am I out of bounds with that statement?

Nope, now is the time to jump into the ARTS genre (MOBA is a term coined by Riot so people would stop calling it a "dota type game.") Dota 2 does a pretty good job with the matchmaking, so you wont be getting crushed by people who are way better then you. Also there are tons and tons of people coming to Dota 2 who never touched Dota 1.

As far as ES as a starting hero, thats just my personal opinion. I don't think its that hard to realize that you make a wall with your fissure. But its just a personal thing, some people find initiation easy where as others finch support easy...just try each in a bot game and play your favorite.

#15 Posted by Acura_Max (59 posts) -

Great idea. I'm going to bookmark this for later.

One concern I have regarding the game is the community. Are they really nasty in every game or is this something you would encounter every now and then?

#16 Edited by Hungry (165 posts) -

@IndieFinch:

Well the problem doesn't lie with a new player not understanding how Fissure works. The problem is that does a new player really understand the mechanics of the game enough to know when he should be using a fissure and where. A new player could potentially ruin a lot of teamfights just because they decided a fissure would be good in a certain spot, and then unforseen circumstances arise. A hero like Sven or Lich are much less damaging to the team if you fuck up their abilities. You lose a strong teamfight nuke or disable, but you don't actively harm your team for making a poor judgement.

New players are going to make poor judgements, they don't have enough experience to make good judgements just yet. It is better if their poor decisions makes less of a negative impact on their team (it will also get them a little less flak from their hater teammates that they will inevitably have, as they are common in low skill brackets).

Also I have to agree. In the next couple of months the time to get into the genre has never been better. Every patch we get more and more stuff being loaded into the tutorial and quest system, which seems like a very in-depth way to teach new players how to get started. I am sure that tutorial will really help new players get on their feet.

#17 Posted by danmcn12 (86 posts) -

I think it should be pointed out there really are no newbie friendly hero, just some are less complex or do not require advanced understanding of game mechanics. Lich is still very hard and will take a very long time to play "right", as you start playing better players they will take advantage of you being slightly out position and make your ult very hard to land. Also, pulling, stacking, warding, and baby sitting are all very difficult skills. That said, a carry like AM requires a high ability to last hit, knowledge of items in specific situations, and prioritization of enemies in team fights, things that are hard to even do poorly.

#18 Posted by VisariLoyalist (2991 posts) -

I think you are exaggerating when you say you won't understand why people love the game for 100 hours

#19 Posted by IndieFinch (242 posts) -

@VisariLoyalist said:

I think you are exaggerating when you say you won't understand why people love the game for 100 hours

Maybe, but it is just my personal belief that it takes time to get over the initial hump. 100 hours is around 100 games in, generally after 100 games you get a taste of a handful of heros and begin to play tougher competition that is equal to your skill. Maybe to understand why people love the game is the wrong phase, maybe I should have said wrap your head around the complexity of the game and for things to click.

@Acura_Max: The community isn't as bad as people like to make it seem. Yes you will run into a lot of really bad people, but you also will run into a lot of really nice people. The usual problem lies in the fact that a single game can last anywhere from 20:00 to 60:00+ but all it takes is 1 person to make 1 mistake and your team loses. If you have 1 new person on your team, they tend to be the weakest link and can cause the loss. Rather then people giving the newer player tips or helping them, they resort to the typical internet conversations of "OMG NOOBS, GG WE LOSE." You just have to put those people on ignore and make friends with those who are fun to play with.

#20 Edited by Ben_H (3342 posts) -

I'm just starting this game and these guides are quite useful. I went down the non-standard route and am learning with someone that most people don't touch, which is the Lone Druid. He's the only character that I have liked so far. How he works makes sense to me and I actually have done quite well with him in the matches I have played (Once you get that bear powered up you just steamroll absolutely everything, especially after you put the Druid in his ultimate form, and use both damage/attack speed buff spells). It is very frustrating though that everyone I have played with has told me not to play Lone Druid because he is too hard or something like that yet I don't find him hard to play. I just looked up what to buy and when to buy it and have been doing fine, I went 6/2 one game with him which is good for only playing like 6 DOTA 2 games. 
 
It can be very frustrating playing at the low level like I am right now. There are so many players at this level that constantly give the rest of the team crap while doing absolutely nothing themselves. I had a guy giving me crap for jungling with Lone Druid, which is something you kinda have to do with him (as I read in a guide on him) since you need to beef up the bear a bit before you can take on other players since the Druid himself is so weak. I also had another guy give me crap for letting him die (he kept fighting too close to towers, what did he expect?). I have run into a few helpful people who have helped me learn the game a ton but for the most part, it almost seems like just muting your team at the low level and focusing on the game and being observant of what is going on is the better route until you have the basics down 100%. 
 
Edit: Is it weird that I find this game super relaxing to play? I usually play it after I am done playing SC2 for the day and it is so much lower stress and lower pressure than SC2 and it is kinda mesmerizing at times, like I go into a trance while playing it, especially when I am jungling.

#21 Posted by The_Drizzle (624 posts) -

@Ben_H said:

I'm just starting this game and these guides are quite useful. I went down the non-standard route and am learning with someone that most people don't touch, which is the Lone Druid. He's the only character that I have liked so far. How he works makes sense to me and I actually have done quite well with him in the matches I have played (Once you get that bear powered up you just steamroll absolutely everything, especially after you put the Druid in his ultimate form, and use both damage/attack speed buff spells). It is very frustrating though that everyone I have played with has told me not to play Lone Druid because he is too hard or something like that yet I don't find him hard to play. I just looked up what to buy and when to buy it and have been doing fine, I went 6/2 one game with him which is good for only playing like 6 DOTA 2 games. It can be very frustrating playing at the low level like I am right now. There are so many players at this level that constantly give the rest of the team crap while doing absolutely nothing themselves. I had a guy giving me crap for jungling with Lone Druid, which is something you kinda have to do with him (as I read in a guide on him) since you need to beef up the bear a bit before you can take on other players since the Druid himself is so weak. I also had another guy give me crap for letting him die (he kept fighting too close to towers, what did he expect?). I have run into a few helpful people who have helped me learn the game a ton but for the most part, it almost seems like just muting your team at the low level and focusing on the game and being observant of what is going on is the better route until you have the basics down 100%. Edit: Is it weird that I find this game super relaxing to play? I usually play it after I am done playing SC2 for the day and it is so much lower stress and lower pressure than SC2 and it is kinda mesmerizing at times, like I go into a trance while playing it, especially when I am jungling.

Jungle Druid is really inefficient/slow (comparatively to Engima,Chen, Enchant, Axe) but is doable if all other lanes are filled up. What builds are you currently using?

#22 Posted by Flabbergastrate (274 posts) -

Do we have an official GB group for Dota 2? Feels like we should have one.

#23 Posted by IndieFinch (242 posts) -

@Ben_H: He is a really fun hero, I love him. Most people are afraid of him because you need to effectively control both him and his bear. As far as jungling, you are better off with some of the others Drizzle mentioned. Lone Druid is one of the strongest laning heros in the game, I would even say top 5. So jungling him is a big waste of his potential. Just grab an Orb of Venom on the bear early on and no one will touch you. Can get free farm and a Radiance on the bear by 15-18 min then you just kite with druid and send your bear to kill everything.

Honestly, it is all about enjoying the game. If you are enjoying him, then dive right in. The reason I suggest people to start with easier heros is because I have had a few friends start with heros like Night Stalker, Drow, Anti Mage...then get 0 items and be useless all game. Then after a few games they say the game isn't fun and quit playing.

#24 Posted by Rattle618 (1463 posts) -

@Flabbergastrate said:

Do we have an official GB group for Dota 2? Feels like we should have one.

There is a steam group, yes. I have not found it very active or useful to new players, but maybe that´s just me.

#25 Posted by Mr_Skeleton (5144 posts) -

@Flabbergastrate: There is a Giant Bomb chat room ingame.

#26 Edited by Hungry (165 posts) -

@Ben_H:

Just because Lone Druid can jungle doesn't mean you should. He is pretty slow at it. He is way better off as a solo off-lane or safe-lane hero because his bear can do a lot of really fun tricks that people in your MMR have no clue how to stop (and honestly in mine too). For example, try and practice the creep spawn timings. When the creeps are going past the enemy T1 tower you should have your bear there to pull them out of the lane and all the way back to where you are safely at your tower. You can also use the bear to harass enemy heroes because the bear doesn't draw aggro from creeps. Basically, Lone Druid is a great suicide laner because he practically has a melee hero lanemate.

I would rack up Lone Druid among the "Can but shouldn't always" jungle heroes. Like Dark Seer, Ursa, and Lycan (though with the buffs to his INT and wolf armor he might actually be able to jungle again this patch).

#27 Posted by CatsAkimbo (618 posts) -

I get the feeling DOTA2 is just not the right MOBA to start with. It just seems really unfriendly to noobs (and I'm not talking about the community). Ideally, I would want to see a game (or maybe a different DOTA game mode) that:

  • Has a reduced number of characters. When people saying "these are good to start with, these are hard carries to avoid, these have magic damage, etc.," my eyes just glaze over because it's too much.
  • Has a very transparent way to show whatever the hell's going on in the jungle, i.e. this boss is big and you might need your team to kill, this item does this thing, these NPCs are small and good to farm. Experienced players know all this, but it's hard to know what's going on in the jungle as a noob.
  • No animation canceling (always fire the attack at the end of the anim). Animation cancelling is such a "meta" game kind of thing. You would never even think to do it unless you're thinking about the mechanics behind the game and how to exploit every tiny thing to your advantage. It really does feel like an exploit, and I know people have practiced it and are awesome at it, but it's such an unfriendly thing for noobs who don't think that way.
  • Automatic messages to teammates when critical things are happening, such as 4 players on one team being on the same screen (on a delay ofc so it doesn't spam). This way the 5th player gets a "the rest of your team is grouped up here *map ping*" notice and can decide to join them or not. This is like the Left 4 Dead thing where they automatically say "reloading" or "grenade out." The player could communicate this themselves, but just a sublte automatic notice would be easy for new players to recognize.
  • Other automatic messages could include something for when you stun an enemy, tp back to start, when you push your lane and see it's empty, etc.
  • Automatic team "slots." So once 2 carries are picked, the rest of the carries are greyed out and can't be picked. Yes, high level players would hate this restriction, but new players shouldn't worry about what character to pick at the start. This goes along with the reduced character count to make it easy to make the right decision at the start, and impossible to make a decision that screws the team before the match even starts.
  • Automatically choose a lane for you at the start and block off other lanes. Have a "tower" halfway through each lane that opens up the other lanes when destroyed. Again, this reduces options for hardcore players, but new players should stick to their lane, and this removes the "so uh, what lane should i go to?" problem at the start, while opening everything up later for when you should be pushing.
  • No last hits, just area XP: I'd think this would be obvious, new players have enough trouble looking at skill cooldowns and where they're going to worry about looking at creep HP on top of that. This also lets the player just attack creeps without worry about stopping attacking to get the last hit in.
  • Simplified item system. Instead of a unique lore name for each item, just make it straight up stat increases that you buy. Show bars with your current stats, and show what increases are available to you (can even make it sort of like "perks" where you choose from 4 things, each making it obvious how much it increases each stat by showing it on the bars). Learning the dumb names for each item sucks as a noob, but seeing a bar graph of your stats and mousing over to see how much it would increase would simplify it.

Again, I know almost all of these would piss off hardcore DOTA2 players, but I really think they'd help make the game appeal to more people and even the playing field so new players don't suck quite so much. I know Guardians of Middle Earth does some of the above, so maybe that's just the game people should start with.

#28 Posted by IndieFinch (242 posts) -

@CatsAkimbo: I think that would be fine in its own game. That is what League of Legends did and they are very successful at it. They removed things like denies, tree destruction, courier, no teleport scrolls, high ground sight, high ground miss chance, day / night cycle...etc. They they made things like here is a "Tank" a "AP Carry a "Jungler" then set specific roles for the meta game based on map layout. How you send 2 heros bot, Support + AD carry because it is close to Dragon which you want to control. But all of these things are a massive part of Dota, removing them is teaching players a fully different game.

A functional tutorial should be able to initiate those new to the game into how it works. The best way to learn all this stuff is trial by fire, dive right in and learn it as you play.

#29 Edited by Ben_H (3342 posts) -
@The_Drizzle@IndieFinch@Hungry: Thanks for the tips guys. Yeah I have little idea what I am doing (though I am starting to learn. I've been reading the guide linked in the OP). I'm a decent Starcraft player so controlling 2 things at once isn't exactly hard (I set the Druid to 1, Bear to 2, and both to 3, keep Druid behind Bear and let Bear tank damage until Druid gets his ultimate. Nice and simple). I just found jungling to be good but I again am playing with the bottom of the barrel for players so I don't really know what "normal play" is at this point and am trying to figure out everything. I have no issue with control at all, just learning the actual game itself and how everything works, I usually end up with significantly more creep kills than most at my level even with my jungling
 
I'll definitely try just laning and not jungling with the Druid for a bit and see how that goes. Once I actually get the basics down I will worry about the cutesy stuff with the bear (something that most people don't do. They worry about crazy tricks rather than solid play. That is something I see constantly in SC2). 

Honestly, it is all about enjoying the game. If you are enjoying him, then dive right in. The reason I suggest people to start with easier heros is because I have had a few friends start with heros like Night Stalker, Drow, Anti Mage...then get 0 items and be useless all game. Then after a few games they say the game isn't fun and quit playing.

Well I know to buy items from the bit I played League of Legends and the bit I watched this game, and I know enough to not be entirely useless so I guess that is a start. I see a lot of people that are like that though.
#30 Posted by DG991 (1344 posts) -

@Xeirus said:

I got into the beta the first day they started inviting people. I had played LoL for about 3ish years before that and I felt the game was so clunky and confusing.

Within the first 10 minutes, of the first game, of the FIRST DAY I already had someone completely flip out and tell me to go die and that I was the worst ever and to just leave the game and blah blah blah.

...this was the first day of beta mind you... first day. I uninstalled it and have no interest in ever going back. LoL serves me just fine when I need a MOBA :/

You sir have no balls. You have never experienced any pointless internet rage in a game before?

@aquamarin said:

Just gonna jump out there and say it's too late for anyone new to get any fun out of MOBAs. Am I out of bounds with that statement?

You sir are wrong. I never played a MOBA before, picked up DOTA 2 because a friend said it was good, and have been enjoying it over the past couple of months. Yea, I lose a lot of games... but I do not understand how people find this game hard to jump into.

Lets say you never played anything but FPS's your entire life:

If you pick up StarCraft 2 and just start playing online you will lose a lot and probably not have much fun.

If you pick up DOTA 2 and just start playing online you will probably be playing shit players and have shitty team mates. But you can be carried. It isn't like you really h ave to worry about an economy like in SC2. The game play is not THAT deep for scrubs like me and other new players.

YES, I understand it gets more complex when you are on the higher levels and all that shiz... but as a regular ass game it is EASY to pick up.

So imo everyone should play DOTA 2.

  • The people playing it are no worse than any other game community.
  • The game play is not even close to as hard as SC2 or even Counter Strike in my opinion.
  • You will learn just by playing.
  • If you want to learn more you can read guides and find friendly people to teach you
  • Man up
  • I'm a scrub and I have fun playing the game.
#31 Edited by Aegon (5496 posts) -

So I have Dota in my steam library and I don't know how that happened exactly. Does everyone have it?

I actually have two things..one called Dota 2 Test and the other just Dota 2.

#32 Edited by Terramagi (1159 posts) -

@Aegon said:

So I have Dota in my steam library and I don't know how that happened exactly. Does everyone have it?

I actually have two things..one called Dota 2 Test and the other just Dota 2.

DotA 2 Test is the beta client (for a game that is in beta itself... yeah). It's like the TF2 client. It's where more experimental changes are tested before they're pushed to the "real" client.

Assuming you actually have the game and aren't just confusing it with the spectator client (it's happened to people), the one you want to play is just called DotA 2.

#33 Posted by Aegon (5496 posts) -

@Terramagi said:

@Aegon said:

So I have Dota in my steam library and I don't know how that happened exactly. Does everyone have it?

I actually have two things..one called Dota 2 Test and the other just Dota 2.

DotA 2 Test is the beta client (for a game that is in beta itself... yeah). It's like the TF2 client. It's where more experimental changes are tested before they're pushed to the "real" client.

Assuming you actually have the game and aren't just confusing it with the spectator client (it's happened to people), the one you want to play is just called DotA 2.

Yeah I'm pretty sure it's the real game. Haven't installed it though. I wonder if I ran into a beta key somehow and forgot about it.

#34 Posted by TrafalgarLaw (1117 posts) -

Dota is the most boring game I've ever played. Last hits, wailing back and forth...is this what PC gaming has become? I don't see the appeal.

#35 Posted by Mr_Skeleton (5144 posts) -

@TrafalgarLaw:

1) The game is from 2003, Dota 2 is just a cleaner version of it so no it's not what PC gaming has become it is in that aspect more "PC game" the most PC games.

2) Don't like it don't play it.

3) Get off your high horse.

#36 Edited by Xeirus (1298 posts) -

@DG991 said:

@Xeirus said:

I got into the beta the first day they started inviting people. I had played LoL for about 3ish years before that and I felt the game was so clunky and confusing.

Within the first 10 minutes, of the first game, of the FIRST DAY I already had someone completely flip out and tell me to go die and that I was the worst ever and to just leave the game and blah blah blah.

...this was the first day of beta mind you... first day. I uninstalled it and have no interest in ever going back. LoL serves me just fine when I need a MOBA :/

You sir have no balls. You have never experienced any pointless internet rage in a game before?

I have no balls because I'd rather spend my time not being around crying stupid ass children? At least in LoL I know I'm good and I know how to play the game already.

There is nothing worse than trying to learn something and being yelled at the whole time. How does anyone expect a player to progress in they're being demeaned the whole time. Not to mention it was beta, day 1 of beta no less... the game isn't good enough to warrant putting up with that crap. (at least it wasn't when I played in beta)

EDIT: changed last sentence*

@TrafalgarLaw said:

Dota is the most boring game I've ever played. Last hits, wailing back and forth...is this what PC gaming has become? I don't see the appeal.

I can't speak for DOTA, per say, but I know in LoL the last hits and all of the waiting is only the first part of the game. Hell, sometimes people don't even wait. It's a lot like chess, you have to know what every other character does so that you know how to counter their skills.

For example, one of the champions has a grab that shoots across the screen and pulls you to them. It's a slow projectile, but the range is crazy long, so you have to know how far back to stand and you always have to be moving to change your pattern so they can't lead your path and grab you.

It's honestly pretty awesome and takes insane skills to be top tier in a game like that. I'm not top tier, but I'm pretty good, but it took years to know every character in and out. What I'm more shocked by is that I even care enough to still play after this long, it says a lot about the quality of the game.

#37 Posted by JackG100 (405 posts) -

@Ben_H: Lone Druid is powerful, if he is allowed to farm. In a higher level game people will ward your forestsspots and also come attacking you and ignoring the bear completely.

Online
#38 Edited by Ben_H (3342 posts) -
@Xeirus said:

@DG991 said:

@Xeirus said:

I got into the beta the first day they started inviting people. I had played LoL for about 3ish years before that and I felt the game was so clunky and confusing.

Within the first 10 minutes, of the first game, of the FIRST DAY I already had someone completely flip out and tell me to go die and that I was the worst ever and to just leave the game and blah blah blah.

...this was the first day of beta mind you... first day. I uninstalled it and have no interest in ever going back. LoL serves me just fine when I need a MOBA :/

You sir have no balls. You have never experienced any pointless internet rage in a game before?

I have no balls because I'd rather spend my time not being around crying stupid ass children? At least in LoL I know I'm good and I know how to play the game already.

There is nothing worse than trying to learn something and being yelled at the whole time. How does anyone expect a player to progress in they're being demeaned the whole time. Not to mention it was beta, day 1 of beta no less... the game isn't good enough to warrant putting up with that crap. (at least it wasn't when I played in beta)

EDIT: changed last sentence*

I had a guy flip out on me in my first public game of League of Legends, and it was even a co-op bot match. What is your point? From what I have played of LoL it is way worse in that category than DOTA 2, simply because you have to expend effort to get DOTA 2 (Either sign up for the beta and wait, or know someone who already has it, and you have to have a Steam account) while anyone can play LoL with minimal effort so by default DOTA 2 will have less "scum". One person flipping out at you shouldn't scare you away from a game, if anything you should just laugh at them for being so immature and then move on. 
 
My first placement match of Starcraft 2 I had the guy swear at me and call me terrible. Did that stop me from playing the game? No. I've been playing the game for over 2 years now. Don't let idiots get to you. You are better than that.
#39 Posted by DG991 (1344 posts) -

@Ben_H said:

@Xeirus said:

@DG991 said:

@Xeirus said:

I got into the beta the first day they started inviting people. I had played LoL for about 3ish years before that and I felt the game was so clunky and confusing.

Within the first 10 minutes, of the first game, of the FIRST DAY I already had someone completely flip out and tell me to go die and that I was the worst ever and to just leave the game and blah blah blah.

...this was the first day of beta mind you... first day. I uninstalled it and have no interest in ever going back. LoL serves me just fine when I need a MOBA :/

You sir have no balls. You have never experienced any pointless internet rage in a game before?

I have no balls because I'd rather spend my time not being around crying stupid ass children? At least in LoL I know I'm good and I know how to play the game already.

There is nothing worse than trying to learn something and being yelled at the whole time. How does anyone expect a player to progress in they're being demeaned the whole time. Not to mention it was beta, day 1 of beta no less... the game isn't good enough to warrant putting up with that crap. (at least it wasn't when I played in beta)

EDIT: changed last sentence*

I had a guy flip out on me in my first public game of League of Legends, and it was even a co-op bot match. What is your point? From what I have played of LoL it is way worse in that category than DOTA 2, simply because you have to expend effort to get DOTA 2 (Either sign up for the beta and wait, or know someone who already has it, and you have to have a Steam account) while anyone can play LoL with minimal effort so by default DOTA 2 will have less "scum". One person flipping out at you shouldn't scare you away from a game, if anything you should just laugh at them for being so immature and then move on. My first placement match of Starcraft 2 I had the guy swear at me and call me terrible. Did that stop me from playing the game? No. I've been playing the game for over 2 years now. Don't let idiots get to you. You are better than that.

or he isn't better than that. His choice.

#40 Posted by Xeirus (1298 posts) -

@Ben_H: Well I'm not making excuses for anyone on LoL, I'm very much aware there is tons of losers on there also. But MOBAs in general just attract that sort of anger, maybe because it's such a huge time commitment, who knows.

My point was more that I was already frustrated by dying and not knowing what was going on, only to then by hammered by some asshole instead of him trying to give me a tip. It just wasn't worth it. I just knew I could go back to LoL and demolish people, so it was an easy choice to make.

I'm actually not up on DOTA 2, is it free? Is it still in beta right now? I haven't heard anything about it in forever.

#41 Posted by JackG100 (405 posts) -

I think it is more or less a done game, but probably still considered a beta. Most heroes from Dota 1 have been added already, afaik only my favorite missing.

I also have 8 invites if anyone wants to try it, just gimme your steaminfo in a PM and Ill hook you up.

Online
#42 Posted by IndieFinch (242 posts) -

@Xeirus: It will be free and you will have access to every hero. They are still doing the "Early Access Bundle" where you can purchase some items and an invite. The hero pool is close to complete as well as most bugs are ironed out. The major things keeping it still in beta is server capacity and the tutorial. Tutorial text just started popping up about a month ago, so I doubt we will see it until Feb or March of 2013. Once the tutorial is released, I suspect that is when they will make it free to play proper. If they did it before then, a ton of people would download it and feel lost / confused.

#43 Posted by Xeirus (1298 posts) -

@IndieFinch said:

@Xeirus: It will be free and you will have access to every hero. They are still doing the "Early Access Bundle" where you can purchase some items and an invite. The hero pool is close to complete as well as most bugs are ironed out. The major things keeping it still in beta is server capacity and the tutorial. Tutorial text just started popping up about a month ago, so I doubt we will see it until Feb or March of 2013. Once the tutorial is released, I suspect that is when they will make it free to play proper. If they did it before then, a ton of people would download it and feel lost / confused.

So I re-downloaded it from my previous invite and played a while last night. Here are my thoughts and/or questions:

  1. Why does double-clicking not purchase an item but right-clicking does?
  2. How do you "deny"? I wasn't able to target my own creeps.
  3. It's really hard to tell champions apart from creeps sometimes
  4. How do you break through the forest? At one point I saw trees collapse and new paths opened.
  5. What's the deal with the secret shop, why does it exist? It seems incredibly pointless.
  6. Why does clicking on some items show you the purchase hierarchy and some it just makes you use the item, it's rather confusing and annoying.

I'm sure I have more, but that's what I came across on my first few play throughs

#44 Posted by IndieFinch (242 posts) -

@Xeirus said:

@IndieFinch said:

@Xeirus: It will be free and you will have access to every hero. They are still doing the "Early Access Bundle" where you can purchase some items and an invite. The hero pool is close to complete as well as most bugs are ironed out. The major things keeping it still in beta is server capacity and the tutorial. Tutorial text just started popping up about a month ago, so I doubt we will see it until Feb or March of 2013. Once the tutorial is released, I suspect that is when they will make it free to play proper. If they did it before then, a ton of people would download it and feel lost / confused.

So I re-downloaded it from my previous invite and played a while last night. Here are my thoughts and/or questions:

  1. Why does double-clicking not purchase an item but right-clicking does?
  2. How do you "deny"? I wasn't able to target my own creeps.
  3. It's really hard to tell champions apart from creeps sometimes
  4. How do you break through the forest? At one point I saw trees collapse and new paths opened.
  5. What's the deal with the secret shop, why does it exist? It seems incredibly pointless.
  6. Why does clicking on some items show you the purchase hierarchy and some it just makes you use the item, it's rather confusing and annoying.

I'm sure I have more, but that's what I came across on my first few play throughs

1. Just how the shop works, would have to ask Valve. Left click shows you what the item can be made into while right click purchases it.

2. You attack your own creeps by clicking A + click, as if you were giving an attack move command. Creep health needs to be below 50%, Tower health below 10%, and allied hero health below 10% and they are effected by a DoT (Venomancer gale, Doom..etc) By denying a creep or hero, you deny the enemy gold and a significant less portion of experience. If you deny a tower, the other team is awarded only 100 gold rather then the usual 200 gold.

3. You will learn the heros over time, just like when you first started League.

4. Tango's are a healing item that consumes a tree to get yourself a minor health regen (Similar to a health pot in LoL). If you get attacked, the healing still continues. If you use a Healing Potion or a Clarity and you get attacked, the regen effect ends. The item Quelling Blade allows you to cut down a tree every 5 seconds, in addition is gives you bonus attack damage vs creeps. (+31% melee, +12% ranged). You can use this to carve paths to gank behind their tower, break down trees in the jungle to double pull camps, or cut holes in trees to make places to hide with the line of sight. Hero abilities also destroy trees, such as Beastmaster Axes and Broodmother Web.

5. Secret shops are extremely important. Side shops contain items that you generally pick up early on in the game. Such as scroll of teleportation, boots, quelling blade / stout shield, orb of venom, ring of health..etc. The goal here is to promote in lane aggression / lane control. If you buy one of those items from the main shop, you have to send in the courier...if you can purchase it there you get it instantly. But then you get to a point where if you have more lane presence, you can zone out your opponent and prevent him from using the shop. The other secret shop in near the ancients contains components to some of the top tier items. Items such as Sacred Relic and Demons Edge are required for big end game items. It becomes a point of control to where if your team is applying pressure and has the appropriate amount of wards out, you can effectivly prevent your opponent from reaching the shop. Then on the flipside, if you are being pressured and need to get to that item...you have to take in risk vs reward. If you go for it, you could get picked off...or if you send the courier it could die. Each shop rewards teams with greater map awareness / control.

6. I am not quite sure what you mean. If you right click any item in your inventory, you can click "Show in Shop" and it opens it in the shop to see what it can be build / broken down into. Left click on an item in your inventory will activate it...things such as BKB, Armlet..etc. If you left click something in the shop, it will show the hierarchy in which it can be built into.

Hope this helps.

#45 Posted by EXTomar (4687 posts) -

Xeirus' point 6 is about the way upgrades work in the shop which is tangential to point 1 about the shop in general. I complain about this as well it took me a bit of time just tinkering with the shop and how to upgrade and I still probably don't work it as quickly or correctly as I should. I think the way purchasing and upgrades is an okay mechanism but it needs to be explained.

#46 Posted by FlipperDesert (2083 posts) -

I've reinstalled from a beta invite I got a while back and have played about 15 hours now, anyone up for stomping some bots? I'd love to have a couple people to play with. My steam name is FlipperDesert.

#47 Posted by Th3irdEye (256 posts) -

We should really get two duders that know what they are doing in Dota 2 and like 8 complete noobs, let the two veterans lead teams, get on the GB mumble server, and just go at it head on. I would be so down for some low pressure matches with someone leading and calling the shots.

#48 Posted by TheHT (11151 posts) -

I played a bit of LoL around when it first came out, and had a good time with that Alchemist character, but it couldn't hold my attention. DOTA 2 so far is pretty good at doing that, although I've only played 3 hours of it in co-op. Still, I'm having fun.

I've tried Bloodseeker and utterly failed with him. Did pretty good with Bane, and OK late game with Enigma. I want to try Faceless, Anti-Mage, Chaos Knight and Skeleton King next. I read the latter two are easy for beginners, so I'll try em out first.

Online
#49 Posted by mast3rmind (3 posts) -

thanks, great guide :D

#50 Posted by venessa2012 (9 posts) -

@Jimi: Tks so much, I am a noob, too. I just access here to find some infor so that I can play well and have lots fun. You are a nice guy

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