Dragon Age II
Game » consists of 16 releases. Released Mar 08, 2011
This sequel to Dragon Age: Origins features faster combat, a new art style, and a brand new, fully voiced main character named Hawke.
Dragon Age 2: What went wrong?
I played through ME1 3 times, ME2 6 times, and Origins 3 times, the last of which I was literally rushing to finish all the DLC for right before DA2 came out. Actually the only reason I didn't throw a big fit over the fact that Amazon accidentally delayed shipping my order is because I needed that extra day to get to the end of Awakening for that final playthrough. It may look different but at the core, the dialog system across all these games is exactly the same. Maybe you just have a deep subconscious hatred for icons.
You say why give you the special option at all? Why give you the Paragon/Renegade options at all? It's because you have a choice. There was never a situation where you had to use a Paragon/Renegade option to move on. That wouldn't make sense because if you didn't have enough points in either one, you'd never be able to progress. You're talking about the standard good response (feather icon) and the helpful response (halo icon) as if they were two options to choose between. They aren't, it's always one or the other and they're always considered to be the "diplomatic" response. Seriously just ignore the icon. And I have no idea what you're trying to say about taking bribes. I played as diplomatic my entire way through the first time and it certainly never replaced the diplomatic option.
Basically it sounds like you're arguing for less choice. You're saying that after being diplomatic X amount of times you want the game to only give you diplomatic options because it should know that you're always going to be diplomatic. But just because I was playing a diplomatic character did not mean I felt a diplomatic response suited my Hawke in every situation. First you say DA2 is too complicated with too many options. Then you compare it negatively to DA:O because DA:O had 7 options (which it almost never did). Writing that out right now I'm realizing that you're probably just trolling and I guess I took the bait. Either that or you're simply out of your mind.
Lol you guise. Here's the facts:
Dialogue wheel is fine, I don't care. However, what I DO CARE ABOUT IS THE RETARDED PARAPHRASING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The paraphrasing is shitty and dosen't always convey what Hawke will say, which Bioware realized otherwise we woulden't have these retarded icons. Mass Effect didn't need them, so obviously a retarded monkey was hired to develop DA2's dialogue.
Short development time. Still a really good game though, it blows my mind that there is such a ridiculous backlash to it. People must be looking back on Origins with some serious rose-tinted glasses, because that game was not that much better, namely because it was tedious as hell in many ways and the story wasn't much more than generic high fantasy "you're the one hero, now go unite everyone under one banner to fight the big bad guy."
" Short development time. Still a really good game though, it blows my mind that there is such a ridiculous backlash to it. People must be looking back on Origins with some serious rose-tinted glasses, because that game was not that much better, namely because it was tedious as hell in many ways and the story wasn't much more than generic high fantasy "you're the one hero, now go unite everyone under one banner to fight the big bad guy." "As someone who has actually gone back and played a fair amount of Origins after beating DA2 a couple of times I do agree that there are lot of things in DA2 that I liked better than Origins. Story wise, I didn't really care for the either game to be honest but I felt that overall, DA2 seems to have more shades of gray in terms of how they handled morality of the characters/factions, despite the fact that a lot of the player's choices ultimately don't change much of what actually happens.
For me, it's quite amazing to see how they made such a good quality game in such a short space of time, if it only took them one year! Props to them. It shows that the formula works well and you can slap together a half decent game if you try really hard.
But the real problem is that they reused all environments and weren't trying to diversify enough. I am about 30 hours in and I can not stand going back to the same places over and over and over and over again, doing different 'quests' - it feels monotonous and i certainly as hell DON'T want to replay, I can't wait till I'm finished. Maybe I might want to play as another class, but the fact that I was stuck with nearly the same combination of companions all the way through, will discourage me because it'll be the same when I play it again, I'll want MORE companions. I think the 3 companion limit is a bit old, should have the ability to use 2 more, which would be totally awesome. They barely managed to wrap around some sort of idea as to -why- you can only have three companions!
The quest system wasn't as good as in ME2 for example, because I would FINISH a quest, then I'd speak to the same dude in a second, and it would be like a =huge= space of time went by since the last time I spoke with him/her and they'd be like "ooh heeeey so good to see you i've been looking everywhere!" and I'm thinking to myself "Sir, i just spoke to you a minute ago, idiot!". Bits like that tick me off.
things better than DA1
. sarcastic lady Hawke. best. thing. ever. better than space bitch femShep.
. the character quest (especially Aveline) are awesome.
. inventory management
. hot mid-40s lady antagonist (Meredith) / Hawke's mom
. finally broke the Bioware's cliche RPG "Go to ZONE#1,2,3,4 IN ANY ORDER"
. crafting/speech/tactic slots skills are gone. this time of 'dumbing down" i welcome!
. a lot of BG2 reference
. party character aesthetics. Sure you can't change their armor, at least their looks are consistent. no more convervative robe morrigan and stripper robes wynn
. instant sex-able Zevran
things worse than DA1
. length. granted most of DA1 time was wasted on inventory management/recovery from combat and going reaaally long tedious quests (Deep Road....)
. no Alistair. all the male characters sucks.
Can't wait for the DLC after the end game..
or bioware completely wrote themself into a corner like DA1....
I am so very sure you just went back on your own arguement, and focused on just one thing I said, followed by writing some crap I simply never needed to know about you, or how many times you've played mass effect 2...
I'm going to put it like this....you're basically saying that you don't want your default setting to be diplomatic, for special choices, even though you played through the game like that, and want it to be something else? And I'm simply saying, if you were paying attention to this conversation instead of trolling, that there are too many choices in this game that are non-consequential to the situation you're in. Why have a system that reacts to what your previous choices have been, and then void it, giving you a choice that is completely inappropriate for that situation, I want to be diplotmatic...the special option is...insult character and t-bag their children...really? By all means, make an option tree, give us choices, hell use a damn dialogue wheel, but don't start chopping and changing it in some misguided attempt to seem like you know what you're doing...how about instead, we use the whole dialogue wheel, instead of 3 constantly changing options...*gasp* could that solve this issue? Yes! Excellent.
How about we just leave it here, you can't argue because in order to do that, you'd have to read what I'm saying, in the context of how I'm saying it, and not come up with rash accusations just because you cannot answer me in any other way. Sorry dude.
We're not arguing for less choice, we're arguing for meaningful choice, or at least the illusion of it. It's pointless to have a conversation wheel and 14 different types of responses if a particular scenario is going to play out in the exact same fashion no matter what option you pick. If the end result is gives us fewer "types'" of choices, then I'm fine with that, so long as each option is substantially different from one another.
In order to be meaningful, a dialogue choice needs to proceed in one of two ways:
1) Different dialogue choices --> The scenario plays out in a different way. (Mass Effect Example: The Zaeed loyalty mission. You can save the refinery and the workers or let the workers die and and go after Santigao. You can't do both. Mutually exclusive dialogue options=mutually exclusive outcomes)
2) Different dialogue choices --> Scenario result is the same, but your character takes demonstrably different action. (Mass Effect Exampe: End of Mass Effect 1, you can persuade Saren to kill himself and avoid the first part of the boss fight, or you can attack him. He dies either way, but your choice affects the manner in which the scenario plays out, which is important if you are actually role-playing the character)
Dragon Age 2 gives you a third (inferior) option: Different dialogue choices--> Same scenario result, you character takes the same type of action with each. This hurts role-playing immersion because the way the writers want your character to act in the situation may not be consistent with the way your character has acted up to that point.
For example:
The devs easily could have provided an illusion of choice by allowing the option to start a fight and then scripting it so she would escape no matter what. That way I get to take the action I want, and the story can still proceed with her alive. The options I was given were insufficient to cover the multiple ways a person might approach the situation.
But you're hotter, so its all good...also that could be a bit of Varric's influence in the storytelling...I love that little, hairy, over-exaggerating bastard.
What I think would've made the time-skips better would be if your character and your companions aged. Nothing aggressive like Benjamin Button, but say by the time Act 3 rolls around maybe your hair starts getting a lighter colour, or more wrinkles start appearing on your face. It would've done much to give the player a sense of time passing. That, and of course actually having the city change in some instances. A city doesn't change drastically over 10 years, but there are subtle changes such as one neighbourhood deteriorates and another gets a fresh coat of paint. Honestly more little touches like that would've went a long way to making you feel like time was marching on.
@sabrestrike: What you're accusing DA2 of doing is something that ME1 and 2 have also done. You just cherry picked two specific situations where that wasn't the case. I have been able to avoid confrontations entirely in DA2 which I had to fight my way through on different playthroughs because of different dialog choices, just nothing as epic as the Saren encounter.
99% of all choices you make in ME1 and 2 end up with the same result, just an extra potential line or 2 of dialog to make it seem like the character is reacting to you being an asshole or a great guy. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have more "true" decisions in my RPGs but it's an unrealistic expectation. The example you gave would be an interesting tweak but I can't help but feel there would still be people coming here complaining that they were given a false choice since no matter what they did they couldn't kill her like they wanted to.
But mainly the point I'm trying to get across is that it seems like the icons have inflated your expectations for dialog in this game. If you really read what the icons are meant to mean you'd understand that it's just a clearer definition of the dialog system seen in ME1/2 and obscurely in DA:O. If you stripped away the icons entirely and just left the text prompts, the dialog in DA2 would be exactly the same as what we get in ME1 and 2. If you're not happy with it that's fine, but comparing it unfavorably to other games that use exactly the same system seems incredibly unfair.
As a standalone game, actually quite good. As a sequel to Origins, deeply flawed and disappointing.
Also, why can't I choose that my male Hawke isn't gay? I don't mean gay as fag, but gay as homosexual, like Will from Will and Grace, strong homosexual man. I tried everything, played him tough, sarcastic, even nice, romanced Merril even, but he was still gay.
....wow...did your sense of humour die with your ability to read? Or make valid points. Hell if you never learn to laugh, you'll never learn how to love, and you'll never grow up to realise this fun little fact-> Fun fact: People who say "I'm done wtih you" are usually broken down into one of two types. They're unable to make an arguement when they realise they've shot themselves in the foot and fucked up their argument, like you, or there are weary individuals, unable to muster enough of a measurable crap to argue with people over the internet, like myself, because clearly, some people just don't understand how to...you know...read, write, or make a logical arguement without acting like a petulant ten year old who didn't get what they wanted, or have a sense of humour.
You've just proven that you're some sort of fanatic, that kind of defence, without even a hint of understanding that I just over-exaggerated in a fun way, because thats what I do. Don't be so literal, and until you learn to get your panties unbunched, grow up and learn how to A) make an arguement that has multiple, fully supported points, B) Take a joke and C) stop trolling, get a life and realize that people do this for fun, just to see other people's reactions, and then laugh at the lunatics who come along and rant about how "nobody likes the game I love....they must die a painful death and I must troll them because the outside world rejected me" because, and lets face it, its so good, it has to be fattening. Live a little dude, if you do you might live longer :D
Really? How does that actually happen? I've a few friends who have had the same issue...sometimes we think Anders can be a bit...rapey...he doesn't take no for an answer....
" Also, why can't I choose that my male Hawke isn't gay? I don't mean gay as fag, but gay as homosexual, like Will from Will and Grace, strong homosexual man. I tried everything, played him tough, sarcastic, even nice, romanced Merril even, but he was still gay. "? My male Hawke wasn't gay. Like... what?
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