I have played Crusader Kings II and like it but found it lacking in combat...i like a game where i can conquer rather than just survive, which seemed to be all i tried to do in Crusader. A friend of mine told me that this is the game for me if i wanted some action and i was wondering if it's any good.

Honestly, I played through the "demo" before release (in quotes because you could almost play through an entire game if you wanted to), and I love it. What they have revamped and added to this game brings a lot of new and interesting options. Also if you're a Crusader Kings 2 player, you can import your dynasty into the game and continue the story of the empire you built.

The game is not easy, it will task you to think carefully about your choices. It will give you the ability to expand and conquer, but it will not be easy. The combat system still isn't incredibly deep. If you wanted deeper military strategy than you're really looking at Hearts of Iron 3, though combat is still more of a thing in this game than CK2.

I haven't played more than the demo, but I'd say combat in EU4 is improved over CK2. In CK2, you can't declare war if you've raised an army, which is a little rediculous. I hate disbanding my entire army after finishing one war, declare war, then immediately raise them again.

In EU4, you have to build your army instead of just raising from vassals, building an army takes time, money, and resources. This gives you a much different strategic feel and is more akin to Civilization.

Actual combat is still just throwing a stack of units against another stack of units, but terrain plays a more important role now. So the horde with their horseback army will annihilate any infantry army simply because they are in hilly terrain.

Haven't played much of EU4, but if combat is more of your thing I hear March of Eagles is pretty good.

I'm playing CK2 right now, I'll probably pick this up when it goes on sale

I missed the pre-order window by a few hours. I was waiting for some TF2 items to sell so that I could justify the purchase to the wife, but unlike every other steam game out there, it released on midnight. :(

I'll have to wait for the sale as well.

Love it so far, think im going to abandon this first game as i made a few big mistakes, but i learned alot already. Tons to take in but nothing seems overly complicated once you get the gist of it.

@chiablo: If you have The Legacy of Rome expansion you can maintain standing armies in CK2.

Thanks for all your answers guys. Sorry for the late thanks but i actually ended up buying the game and just fell into the EU hole. Just like CK2 there is A LOT to learn, mostly by trial and error for me, but the game is pretty cool. I don't think i'll ever conquer the world but it sure is fun trying :P

The save converter is so broken for me, and is really taking the challenge out of the game. At this point in CKII's life, I can create a massive empire without using cheats- you eventually get the hang of it 380 hours in. Old Gods playthroughs are even worse, because my Norse empire gets an added 200 years to expand! My save I have imported into EUIV is a Spanish empire which contains the Empires of Hispania, Francia, and HRE- I have 55 thousand gold in CKII, which converts to 7356 gold in EUIV- all this while making 53 gold per month. Basically I'm rolling fucking deep, and I'm worried this game will just be a breeze. Currently I'm still working on learning all the EUIV controls, which does add a bit of difficulty. Game seems fucking cool though, I've been really excited to play all week.

@sumbog: Start another game with a new country, sounds like that would be boring after awhile considering you own half of Europe already. I suppose its a neat idea but in practice it breaks the challenge of the game.

This is my first Paradox game. I took a picture of me playing EUIV last night. I think I'll need to watch a few more Youtube let's plays to get the idea of the game.

So, how brutal is this game on new players? I own Crusader Kings 2, but never actually got around to playing it. Seems like a really interesting game and I really like how the map is actually Earth, instead of the usual randomized one from Civilization.

@deathtrap: It's a lot more refined than other Paradox games, but the barrier of entry is still somewhat high. If you're willing to go the extra mile and check out some Let's Plays, or something along those lines, on Youtube, you can really quicken the process.

Yep, definitely still high. Just tried the single player demo and there's way too much going on.

Yeah but you rarely need to worry about everything at once.

After a good six hours I think i've got all the basics down. This is my first Europa game so I can't speak about how it compares to the others. What I can say is that if you're coming from civ or total war it's a big jump, the mechanics are different but the concepts are exactly the same. You basically just have a very high level of control over things on a national level, and the game is paced realistically. It's also in real time.

The tutorials did a decent job of teaching basic mechanics but are useless at teaching the concepts. They do however teach you all the mechanics so you can jump and play after finishing them with reasonable success. I would still suggest just watching a lets play designed at teaching the basics though.

The official dev journals that describe each country are vital. Many nations have mechanics that are unique to them and play a massive role in your success. For example I made the mistake as playing Ming China without googling it first. My main nation traite basically gave me -40%-100% on everything on top of the region trait that made techs 60% harder to research. So after 50 years I was like wow, all my neighbors and even the mongols were much more advanced than me and flat out better at everything. I just have lots of land. It turns out China's internal faction system is vital, so vital that if you didn't use it like me then you will suck at everything. You have to choose 1 of three factions, one gives massive bonus' to tech and expansion, the other war and final economic. Initially I thought I should keep all three balanced. Then I realised thats the worst thing to do. You need to max one and keep it at max to get the bonus' it provides while keeping the others at 0. The game does not tell you this in any way. Once you do that China (an asian country with big penalties to tech compared to european ones) can actually surpass them. The same goes for war and economy. It turns out China is a nation that specializes completely in one direction and sacrifices the others to varying degrees. Of course you can essentially change this specialization at a whim/ couple of years with no penalties.

If you like civ or the tactical map in total war and want something with more depth. This is it. Just be ready to put in some time to learn the basics first and check the detailed explanations of each nation on the dev's forums.

I've watched a few of quill18 videos on YouTube that have sort of helped me get an idea. I'm in a game as Poland that is the first game I'm doing sort of okay with. Will see how it all develops.

Really starting to get a grap on things, im not sure what exactly happend but i was supporting rebels in Lithuania and i guess they did ok because i suddley had a extra 4 or 5 proviences, they broke off and joined my country which i diden't even know could happen.... or i think so anyways. Love this game.

I'm about 25 hours into my first campaign playing as England (now Great Britain ). It took a few mistakes here and there but I'm really getting the hang of it. I love the new trade system, it feels a lot more engaging then the previous one and I find that it adds a whole other way to play the game.

Yea its not as hard as it seems once you get the gist of it, might take a game or two of trial and error to learn but once you do its a blast. I usually shy away from these kinds of games but man this is so addicting once it all clicks, i love the decisions you are forced into, and watching how they world shapes around you is a blast. Hers a SS of my second try with Muscovy, i basically have all the requirements to form Russia besides the Tech prerequisites as my Ruler's all seem to suck at administration.

Man I love it. Both CK2 and EU4 are games you learn by watching youtube videos of people playing and explaining it. Check quill18 and maybe Maddjinn.The save converter is really only a little fun thing to do. I exclusively play on Ironman now.

@wuddel: Yea, i'v been plying on Ironman as well, its makes my choices feel more important and keep my urges to load a old save up when i make a bad mistake at bay. Plus, i think thats the only way to get achievements and im a sucker....

Game is really great. Imported my late game CK2 save that was made on the release version of CK2. It caused some crashing issues, but I spent a few hours on that. Going to finish up a more recent CK2 save to get a more stable import.

Its a shame this game isn't getting the same attention as some other current "games" (looking at you Gone Home).

@zkillz: yeah, certainly the GB crew is not really a strategy gaming crowd

Yea, Dave would have been the one to get into this, be cool if they could have him in for a quicklook.

hell, bring in the gamespot guy who reviewed it if they have to (or Shaun Mcinnis, who reviewed CK2 and likes these games and probably has a better stage presence)

My main issue now is that i'v grow large enough that i could take over some of the larger countrys around me but after taking most of the Orthodox provinces from Lithuania anything else is going to require some serious purging and conversion of heathens. I'v ruled out going into the middle east as i cant convert Sunni at all and they revolt like madmen, but eastern Europe is a possibility if i want to go toe to toe with Poland and there allies to push towards the HRE.

Thinking it might be best to push my administrative tech up to ten first and form Russia, but im already in the 1600's so the years are going by and the cost of upkeep on 100 regiments even with my sliders down is crazy. I mean im still pulling in like 15-20 gold a month but when i go to war and crank it up i start taking a loss so i have to have a cash pool to start wars now. I finally got a colonist though and am slowly starting to settle in Siberia which should help medown the road, and if i can get far enough east i may find fresh blood in Asia or potentially try and push to the new world but its unlikely i have enough time to do that. I'll see how it goes.

The Motherland Calls.

200 years later and after learning how to properly control my internal factions. Ming China is in a dominating position. I control most of eastern asia, including the northern parts. Tech wise my admin is behind the europeans and my diplomacy is also lagging far behind but my military tech is slightly higher than the european average. My military is advanced and large enough to essentially go toe to toe with europe. Oh and i've also destroyed the filthy Machu and ensured the mongols won't ever threaten China again. The only thing stopping me from taking all of Korea, Japan, Southeast Asia, and everything to the west till the middle east (including half of modern Russia) is over expansion and a string of bad luck with crappy emperors and random events. I might have expanded too fast and need to secure everything before taking more land. The rebels have no chance of even taking a single provence but still, I can't afford all the negative random events that come with expanding too fast. Oh and i've also ensured that southeast asia will be in a perpetual state of civil war so they can never unite and challenge me. I've also ensured that Japan is also in never ending perpetual civil war with catholic rebels (last time I checked the rebels had almost 40 units). On the negative side, almost all my emperors had terrible stats, and this one is just retarded. They also have trouble having kids for some reason.

So i sorta got really greedy tonight even though i know better... i mean i didn't think it be this bad, but between the war and my Siberian colonies coring up my over-extension is out of control, im basically committing genocide on rebels at this point. Going to be a tough decade or so, but i think i got the resources to hold out. I Hope...

@sanity: I too got a little greedy in regards to France. They were in a war with just everyone so I declared a war of conquest and sealed them off from the ocean. It's going to take a long time to lower my aggressive expansion penalty and make them cores but in the long run France is no longer an oceanic threat. I hope.

Really enjoying the iron man feature. I always sort of cheated my way through Crusader Kings and kept a back up save somewhere. I just more or less ruined my entire campaign and I love it.

Tried the demo the other day. Is there any way to increase the font size? I tried lowering the resolution, but it mostly just made the text blurry. Playing with my nose pressed against the screen isn't very comfy.

Tried the demo the other day. Is there any way to increase the font size? I tried lowering the resolution, but it mostly just made the text blurry. Playing with my nose pressed against the screen isn't very comfy.

You can install a steamworks mod with different fonts.