I have a couple of free hours and decided that if you had any questions about the game industry I would the time to answer them as best as I could. I have eight years of experience as a professional programmer. I am currently employed by Ubisoft along with my wife. Whom I also wrangled her into helping out she has seven years of experience in QA/QC, and can provide a different viewpoint. I have two shipped titles (Fracture and F3AR) and of course quite a few that did not get to market. While she has ten times that but under group credit.
Ask me anything about game development.
How do you get instructed as to what you should program? Is it just 'You guys must code the UI. It will look like this, and these bits will do this etc.'?
And how do you make sure all the systems will work together in the finished product?
The last one is what i'm most curious about, because i have always wondered how so many programmers code something that work together this well.
How the corporate mobility?
How did you first get into the business?
What was your education and experience like before you got into it?
What was the interview process like?
Is it like working for any other big company or are the rules a lot more lax in the office?
I've always wanted to do stuff like concept art for a game developer - even though you're a programmer do you know anyone from the art departments and what that sort of situation is like?
Thanks.
@opp said:
How do you get instructed as to what you should program? Is it just 'You guys must code the UI. It will look like this, and these bits will do this etc.'?
And how do you make sure all the systems will work together in the finished product?
The last one is what i'm most curious about, because i have always wondered how so many programmers code something that work together this well.
It depends a lot on the size of the team. I've worked as part of teams as small as 6 programmers and as large as 80. The general rule of management is that once you have more than 3~4 people that report to you, you are no longer a programmer you're now a manager. The more senior you are as a programer the more freedom you are given to pick and choose you tasks.
A typical milestone (roughly a month) for me would work as followed. Our systems (AI, Animation, UI, ect...) lead will talk to the programmers with a list of tasks that need to be completed, and we discuss what tasks would be the best for me to work on. The term "best" does not always mean most efficient, until you are up against the last few months of a project, it is very valuable to allow developers to go into areas they are not familiar with spread the knowledge out. It's why we don't send everyone from the same system team on the same airplane or bus. As the project nears the final dead line, learning does take a back seat to just getting the game into the box.
As an experienced programmer, the tasking stops there for me, I will then break down my next months tasks into smaller pieces and assign them out as needed (i.e. ask art for an object). A fresher programmer would likely receive assistance with splitting their tasks into smaller chunks. Bugs, especially ones that block other people from working, are always the top task for any programmer.
How do we make sure all the systems will work together? That's always a scary thing, games are huge, in the order of millions of lines of code. Our QC/QA department do "regression" testing where they go back and verify things are still working, they test the new things that come in. When doing individual development, we use test boxes often called "grey boxes" due to no textures, we can build a feature from the ground up in a grey box and get it verified as done before handing off to designers to get into the production levels.
From the full production scope, every item and level has a time and place for being done, and the testers can launch into any level regardless where it belongs in the plot. Very similar to how movies are made. This can often lead to leaves made first in the editor being rougher than those made later due to the people building them having more tools and practice.
@FluxWaveZ said:
How are the hours?
They are fine, normally. Of course, I may be tempered by it.
It depends a lot on the maturity of the company and the scope of the product. On a previous project I have a personal record of 26 12~16 hours days in a row. The industry does have a lot of extra time put in, it comes before major expo show (e3, gamescon, PAX, etc...) and near the launch. I am comfortable with the hours I work, and know when our extra hours are scheduled for the current project. If you don't know when the extra hours are on the project you just started work for are, ask immediately. If they don't know, take it as a warning sign.
If you are an indie developer and your house is on the line, you work every hour that you can. If you're a 3rd party company and you studio is on the line, you work every hour you can get. If something broke for an paid service game, you work every hour you can.
My normal work week is ~42 hours at the office give or take, of course I do get lots of tiny breaks when compiling.
Is it really as hard as people make it out to be trying to get hired into the industry. Currently finishing A level game design and moving onto Higher National Diploma game design in September. I live in the UK btw.
@Salarn Ooh, this is cool. Let me try some questions.
- How do developers/publishers decide what type of games should be funded/made? Do they go to their marketing departments and ask them what they think is popular and has a chance of selling, or if they can fill some kind of niche in the market that is neglected? Or, does the marketing department only become involved once a game has already been green-lit, trying to tailor the proposed game to sell?
- How do you feel about working conditions in the industry, as a whole, or in particular within your field (programming)? Do you feel exploited with the number of hours that you have to work, even if the compensation is very high? http://www.gamecareerguide.com/features/980/game_developer_salary_survey_.php Do you find that you and your wife have enough time to spend with your family/children outside of work?
- If you spend many years working on a project that is ultimately cancelled, how do you get credit for the work you have done if you never get a credit for making a released game?
- What percentage of games in development never see the light of day? If so, what is the most common reason they get cancelled?
I hope you can find the time to answer my questions. Thank you for taking the time to consider them
@DarthOrange said:
How the corporate mobility?
As an individual moving jobs in the game industry is very easy. It's not uncommon for people to shift locations internally or externally when a product is finished. (Shipped or otherwise)
Some studios are annual title shops, take EA Tiburon, I hope I don't blow and E3 announcements, but they are working on Madden. They are likely to continue to work on Madden. Many other studios change based on contracts, so you could work on a platformer for '06 and then a shooter for '08. Artists also may draw cell shaded cartoons one day and then realistic grunts the other.
When the studio's project doesn't match what the dev wants to work on creatively larger complains will often try to find a match, but won't hold a grudge if you leave. (After the project finishes)
As the industry matures, it does get hard to move jobs, as more people have families and attachments to the local area. That however, is a balancing act that is not unique to the game industry.
Any advice for non-programmers trying to get into the industry?
I'm a musician with aspirations of being involved in the design process, so I'm trying to get involved in the indie scene providing music, and making my own small iOS apps. Internships for anything except programming and art seem non-existent, so any suggestions for other things I could try would be great.
On an art side of things, how fast are people usually required to pump out assets? And in general how long is it supposed to take to complete different tasks?
@Humanity said:
How did you first get into the business?
What was your education and experience like before you got into it?
What was the interview process like?
Is it like working for any other big company or are the rules a lot more lax in the office?
I've always wanted to do stuff like concept art for a game developer - even though you're a programmer do you know anyone from the art departments and what that sort of situation is like?
Thanks.
I graduated in 2003 with a degree in Computer Science. I tried to get a job in the industry and failed. What I was missing was a portfolio. I then spent a year at Digipen and built additional works for my portfolio along with the class work. The summer of 2004 I applied to over 40 entry level positions, and got a opportunity with High-Voltage Software for a 2 month contract that turned into a full time position.
I cannot stress this enough. If you want to get into the game industry, start making art, music, games, etc... now and build a portfolio. Even if it's shameful to look back on 8 years later like mine is. Showing that you already can do the work makes all the difference.
Interviews start over the phone, you get to talk to a few people at the studio and often answer some general knowledge questions. If you do well on that, you will often receive a programming test. These can be very intense, often timed, and rarely are you expected to finish. Google can provide a lot of examples, don't use any answers you find on google for a programming test, we know about google also. From there you will most likely do an onsite interview at the company and spend most of the day with various employees. They will test your work knowledge and how well you fit in with the work atmosphere.
I know a good deal of artists, but probably can't ring them up right now. I think concept artists are luckies people at the company, they are the first people to express the game idea in a physical form. They do a large array of imaginary from characters, to objects, to locations. It's tragic how many people dump on concept art when it's an unlock able for a finished product. If you would like more details, just ask and I'll do my best.
@krazy_kyle said:
Is it really as hard as people make it out to be trying to get hired into the industry. Currently finishing A level game design and moving onto Higher National Diploma game design in September. I live in the UK btw.
I've worked in the US and Canada, so my UK knowledge is a bit limited. However, I can say, it is difficult to get into the professional industry if you are not already making games as a hobby. As I mentioned above the portfolio will make a huge difference for any entry level application. Course work designed to place into the game industry will get you started on the portfolio naturally, but do as much as you can, if it's your dream you gotta for work it.
Make sure that the degree you have does not cut back on english (reading and writing) along with classes such as speech. I spend a large if not major part of my day interacting with other people, from every discipline. Being able to express your ideas and concerns to others is very important email, IM, face to face.
If you are looking for more ways to build your portfolio and cut your teeth on the industry, do Gamjams they are really great for that.
@Dagbiker said:
Were you the reason why Fa3r's story sucked, or were you the reason why the level design sucked?
I am a programmer I did not write the story for F3AR. I am a programmer I did not design the levels for F3AR.
Here are some of the things I did for F3AR: weapon fire control, in game UI, some front end menus, the 'zap' grenade, world phasing (cut), amongst others.
Somewhat more towards your wife: Is QC really as big a shitfest as Penny Arcade's Trenches insider side-stories make it out to be? People treated like disposable crap that gets laid off as soon as its been burned out?
@hardindr said:
@Salarn Ooh, this is cool. Let me try some questions.
- How do developers/publishers decide what type of games should be funded/made? Do they go to their marketing departments and ask them what they think is popular and has a chance of selling, or if they can fill some kind of niche in the market that is neglected? Or, does the marketing department only become involved once a game has already been green-lit, trying to tailor the proposed game to sell?
- How do you feel about working conditions in the industry, as a whole, or in particular within your field (programming)? Do you feel exploited with the number of hours that you have to work, even if the compensation is very high? http://www.gamecareerguide.com/features/980/game_developer_salary_survey_.php Do you find that you and your wife have enough time to spend with your family/children outside of work?
- If you spend many years working on a project that is ultimately cancelled, how do you get credit for the work you have done if you never get a credit for making a released game?
- What percentage of games in development never see the light of day? If so, what is the most common reason they get cancelled?
I hope you can find the time to answer my questions. Thank you for taking the time to consider them
1) There are two types of projects. There are "annualized" titles that are sequels, that's easy to decide if the last one sold well, make another. If it's been enough years that nostalgia has kicked in, make another. It is however a balancing act, there is a fixed amount of resources available if it was possible to make every game every year they would but it's generally not. Think of it as crop rotation but for video games. It's not a free ride however for sequels, they still have to go through the same vetting process as any other game with green light milestones and vertical slices, but many of details are not in flux. (Mario won't have his name changed to Steve)
The other type of game is the original IP or one off games. This is a buyers market for the publisher, generally a 3rd party studio will put in part of their monetary war chest into producing a demo or vertical slice of their idea. The publish will get an early look, and then get to decide amongst dozens of other games that they have seen which looks to be the best one to make them money and when.
Market doesn't just sell the game after it's made, they promote well before hand and also keep a solid eye on launch window competitors and what is popular. (Unofficially I think it's MOAR DUBSTEP)
2) I'm very lucky that I can almost always have lunch with my wife work. We do have late nights, some times just one of us. The truth of the matter is, for the same skill a game programmer could have higher earnings in a more stable position then the game industry. That's not to say we don't get paid well, it's a trade off to know that millions of people have played my games and I can walk into any game store and find something I worked on sitting up on a shelf.
We're all smart people, and we know what we signed up for. The only people have a little shell shock about how the sausage is made in the studio are fresh testers. They are so cute. I asked my wife "Do you think we spend enough time together?" and without looking up from harvest moon she said "Yup".
3) You don't. Fortunately, people will believe you if you tell them you sent time working on a canceled project, they have had their own canceled at some time. Don't worry, lying won't get you anywhere because the industry communication is very tight, and there is always that programmer test. On my linked in page I use the internal code names for projects such as "Coppertone" "Trauma" or "Checkmate" and then the individual tasks I did.
4) Personally my score is around 25% published my current project should raise that. Based on my personal interaction with other people in the industry, that seems about right, for AAA titles, smaller budget titles or mobile games is much higher because the exposure and risk is much lower.
The most common reason is money, time, and or quality. Even at the very end of a project, the final decision to press disks, buy shelf space, and do marketing is millions of dollars. There is always someone running the numbers to know if a game at least going to make that back. Just for reference, I have worked on projects with a 2 million budget and over 60 million, games are expensive.
@Salarn: Thank you for taking the time to reply to my questions. Your answers were very informative. I have two others, if you have the patience.
- Are you concerned with recent changes in the video game market, that there seem to be fewer and fewer mid-ranged A or AA titles, and that publishers are relying more and more on annualizable AAA titles (I'm thinking about stuff like COD for Activision)? Is it healthy for the industry to keep moving in this direction, putting a companies future in so few eggs in a basket?
- Speaking of Activision, did you get a chance to read the West and Zampella interview in the latest Game Informer? http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/05/24/respawn-39-s-west-and-zampella-sound-off-on-upcoming-activision-lawsuit.aspx Any thoughts on what they had to say? Do their claims seem plausible to you?
Again, thanks for taking the time to respond.
@SuperSambo said:
Why was Fear 3 so bad?
Why was Fracture so bad?
I am proud of my work on Fear 3 and Fracture, they may only have a 74 and 63 on metacritic respectively, but a lot of good people worked hard on the project.
@FluxWaveZ said:
@Salarn: Thanks a lot for answering my question; I appreciate it.
If I may, I'd like to ask another, simpler one: do all of you guys get to go to E3 for free, being game devs and all, or is that reserved to certain key members of the development team?
Every company I have worked for has at least offered to provide tickets to the show for free. I have gone, but paid my own air fair and hotel. We have set people who are sent to go, the people trained to do floor shows and speak at press conferences. However, if there was something that I could uniquely provide to promote the product I would be sent no question.
@runcrash said:
Ever worked in non-entertainment software development? If so, how does that compare and contrast with game development?
No I have not. However, all of my computer science classes were based with that goal in mind. Speaking with no experience, I think they wear ties, and talk about sports at the water cooler instead of video games. My coworkers that left the game industry for tie based employment say it's pretty similar but a bit easier to switch off when the go home. I can't tell you the number of games my wife has wanted to put in bug reports, or the times I've stopped to try to figure out how something was implemented.
@Metzo_Paino said:
Any advice for non-programmers trying to get into the industry?
I'm a musician with aspirations of being involved in the design process, so I'm trying to get involved in the indie scene providing music, and making my own small iOS apps. Internships for anything except programming and art seem non-existent, so any suggestions for other things I could try would be great.
The game industry is great for every position. I recently spoke to high-schoolers about game industry jobs and I couldn't have been more adamant that every skill is needed in the game industry. We have artists, composers, choreographers, programmers, etc... I mentioned up above, but you just need to make as much as you can and put it into your portfolio. It sounds like you are on the right track, keep trying. I only got one response to my 40+ internship applications as a programmer, you're not alone!
Every skill is valuable, we've had to find people who knew how to skydive for one project and salsa dance for another. Being a well rounded person pays off.
@Salarn said:
It's tragic how many people dump on concept art when it's an unlock able for a finished product.
Everyone who has at least a little sense for art will appreciate it :) I liked the concept art unlockables in Castlevania: Lords of Shadow and always checked for new ones. I even went as far as to buy the Assassins Creed guides just to cut out the concept arts and pasted them on my wall xD
I think more games should come with some kind of mini-artbook with concept arts, maybe then more gamers would start to pay attention to the artistic merit a game can offer and appreciate it more in the future.
@Salarn: My questions were already answered but I wanted to thank you for taking the time to answer some of these. It's cool to learn about some of this stuff.
@Thoseposers said:
On an art side of things, how fast are people usually required to pump out assets? And in general how long is it supposed to take to complete different tasks?
The only way to know for sure how long it takes to do something is if it's been done before. That's not what we do in the game industry. Even with years of experience, there is a lot of guessing that goes into time estimates. It's the hardest part of my task planning. Especially if you are dependent on the work flow of others.
Say your game needs a crate, every game needs at least one. The designer request the crate which is split off the the molder to make the crate, the texture artist to paint it, the programmer to do any crate mechanics. Then the level designer place the crate, and the QC validates the crate works as expected (and is clear by legal). How long does that take? Every individual piece is small, but it all adds up. That is where producers to line up the tasks so nobody is waiting for something to do.@snow_blind said:
I guess the simple answer is, as fast as reasonable so that quality is maintained.
Somewhat more towards your wife: Is QC really as big a shitfest as Penny Arcade's Trenches insider side-stories make it out to be? People treated like disposable crap that gets laid off as soon as its been burned out?
@snow_blind
Her words: The stories are meant to be shocking, pulled from multitudes of users submissions. That said, I would not doubt if they were all true, but it's not representative of what life is like as a tester. It really depends on the company you are working, which is no different than any other job. For some one looking to get into a job as a tester, look for a place that consider their testers as developers, even as an hourly employee. I have worked in some truly tragic conditions, but I have worked places where I have treated on par and as valuable with any other employee. (Don't leave a job like that)
The worst part about testing is that it can ruin a genre of games for you. I can't play FPS games anymore for fun, because I spent years testing them for work. As a tester you are the closest person to the game at all times, a good company will contact their testers for balancing and feedback. (A good tester waits to asked)
My words: I don't play the game I work on, I play tiny tiny bits of it when implementing a feature. I don't honestly know the story to F3AR past the intro and end movies, but I sure know the heck out of our test box. I see testing as the job a projectionist has at a movie theater, it sounds great to see all the movies first, but around the 90th showing of Twilight it starts to wear at you. Testers are generally just as hard working and valuable as anyone else at the company.
Are story writers often considered as valuable as programmers and other employees? Do they tend to work on one project with one team or do they get traded around a lot? Do game developers (besides the bigger RPG makers) often bother with hiring people to exclusively write stories and dialog or is that something that only a few companies like Naughty Dog and Rockstar have?
What is a good starting point for learning how to make games? Basic? RPG Maker? Source Engine?
EDIT: For the record, I liked FEAR 3 a good bit.
@believer258 said:
Are story writers often considered as valuable as programmers and other employees? Do they tend to work on one project with one team or do they get traded around a lot? Do game developers (besides the bigger RPG makers) often bother with hiring people to exclusively write stories and dialog or is that something that only a few companies like Naughty Dog and Rockstar have?
This! I am wondering this as well! Please.
@hardindr said:
@Salarn: Thank you for taking the time to reply to my questions. Your answers were very informative. I have two others, if you have the patience.
- Are you concerned with recent changes in the video game market, that there seem to be fewer and fewer mid-ranged A or AA titles, and that publishers are relying more and more on annualizable AAA titles (I'm thinking about stuff like COD for Activision)? Is it healthy for the industry to keep moving in this direction, putting a companies future in so few eggs in a basket?
- Speaking of Activision, did you get a chance to read the West and Zampella interview in the latest Game Informer? http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/05/24/respawn-39-s-west-and-zampella-sound-off-on-upcoming-activision-lawsuit.aspx Any thoughts on what they had to say? Do their claims seem plausible to you?
Again, thanks for taking the time to respond.
1) Every company loves their ever green titles. They are safe, and they fund other more risky titles, and they are relied upon. Yes, Activision has annualized COD, however just last year they took a huge risk on Skylanders, which my wife loves. The money they make off the safe projects go to the riskier ones. Most games do not get published, most games do not make money. It's the same any creative industry music, movies, etc...
We are very lucky to live in a time now where we as consumers are starting to get a direct vote on what games can be made via crowd sourcing. That is what it all boils down to, money. If the annual francihes were not profitable they wouldn't be made. However, keep in mind, that gaming market is much larger than most people realism. There are plenty of people who only buy madden or COD every year as their game to play. Posting on a forum about video games puts you in a different category of gamer, much more an omnivore consumer of games.
Personally, the annual sports or shooter games have little interest to me, and in all the years I've been a gamer, the available new games for me to play has never be better. Now if only I had time to play them.
2) Yes I've read it, and find it all very interesting. However, I cannot comment on it directly.
The game industry lacks "faces" a popular movie can get people in the door by just by having "Brad Pitt" on the billing. However, most people have no idea who the leads are on their favorite games. There are a few exceptions such "Tim Schafer", or "Cid Meier", but ask a random person on the street who stared in the Matrix or who was the lead designer for Diablo 3 the recognition it won't line up.
@Salarn: Thanks for replying again. It's true that most creative endeavors (particularly in the music endeavors) never make any money, and that successful, lowbrow titles often fund loftier, arty projects (particularly in film). It's also true that for a lot of people, consoles are little more than COD or Madden machines (like for many of my coworkers).
I actually had one more question: with you background in the video game industry as a programmer, when you read video game coverage, say here at giantbomb or elsewhere, what do you like to see/read? What do you hate to see/read? I am thinking also of video game reviews. What do you like to see/read there, and what do you hate to see/read?
I'm trying to break into game design, so I want to become as familiar as possible with the prototyping process. I'm wondering what a designer will typically hand you. Do you expect something vaguely playable thrown together in Unity or GM? Or is it more often sketches and written documents? I'm assuming that the design is already understood in the broad strokes once you get out of pre-production, but I'm not sure what exactly is being handed to the technical parts of the team after that process.
@believer258 said:
Are story writers often considered as valuable as programmers and other employees? Do they tend to work on one project with one team or do they get traded around a lot? Do game developers (besides the bigger RPG makers) often bother with hiring people to exclusively write stories and dialog or is that something that only a few companies like Naughty Dog and Rockstar have?
What is a good starting point for learning how to make games? Basic? RPG Maker? Source Engine?
EDIT: For the record, I liked FEAR 3 a good bit.
@Jay444111:
People were hired to write the story F3AR. There are people on staff for the story of our current project. Does every studio have full time writers? No, it's more common to have external story writers or make that part of the duties of every designer. In a game with a plot, every level should tell a chapter of that story. Writing a story for a video game is often more difficult than writing for a fixed media, due to the fact that players don't know their lines or blocking.
What items, upgrades, skins, level order, etc... Every option that we add to build a better game, increases the difficulty of writing the story. Everything we weld onto rails to feed story to the player removes interactivity. It's a push and pull between those elements. I can not begin to tell you how many serious story elements have been ruined by my character being covered in blood and/or on fire.
--
As for the good starting point to learn to make games, it's really up to you. I can give you better examples if you tell me what part of game development you want to take part in. However, I found a table top RPG to be a great way to start making games. The level to entry is very low, you can get immediate feedback from your players, and you can be 100% sure they will not do what you expect them to (very valuable experience).
Gamemaker, Unity, flash, etc... are all good tools.
@JasonR86 said:
Yo what's up with game development?
Right now? Everyone is excited for E3.
@hardindr said:
@Salarn: Thanks for replying again. It's true that most creative endeavors (particularly in the music endeavors) never make any money, and that successful, lowbrow titles often fund loftier, arty projects (particularly in film). It's also true that for a lot of people, consoles are little more than COD or Madden machines (like for many of my coworkers).
I actually had one more question: with you background in the video game industry as a programmer, when you read video game coverage, say here at giantbomb or elsewhere, what do you like to see/read? What do you hate to see/read? I am thinking also of video game reviews. What do you like to see/read there, and what do you hate to see/read?
Well, I'll be honest. Having three years of my work reduced to a single % is hard. Ryan was kind enough to talk with my about my first quick look jitters for F3AR. It's very hard for them explain a game to someone while playing it. Imagine watching someone play your game and watching them miss important prompts due to that discussion. I enjoy the work they do, and they treated the game fairly.
On the hand, my wife and I loved watching Tobygames do a let's play of F3AR and see him have a great time playing it.
Review scores are valueless to me. I watch the quick looks because I want to see the game represent itself. Everything written is biased through the eyes of the person writing it. I will stand tall and tell you that Dwarf Fortress and Star Control 2 are in the top five games ever made. However, I wouldn't expect anyone else to agree, my review is my opinion. The best you can do is find reviewers that come as close to your opinions as possible (i.e. GiantBomb) and base it off of that. You can probably count 5~10 quicklooks to every one review on Giantbomb, there is probably a reason for that.
For me quicklooks are the perfect "review" if the Giantbomb staff can't figure out how to fun with a game in 30+ minutes, then I know all I need to know.
The internet is not representative the gaming public, they are the loudest 2% of gamers, often upset when posting about your game. That's not special to games, it's a bit of human nature to complain loudly about what you don't like and be quietly content about what you do like. I almost never read the comments on any site due to the average bile that is posted.
@nintendoeats said:
I'm trying to break into game design, so I'm trying to become as familiar as possible with the prototyping process. I'm wondering what a designer will typically hand you. Do you expect something vaguely playable thrown together in Unity or GM? Or is it more often sketches and written documents? I'm assuming that the design is already understood in the broad strokes once you get out of pre-production, but I'm not sure what exactly is being handed to the technical parts of the team after that process.
Programming is all about solving problems. Designers bring me problems, and I solve them. The way it works for me is a feature is present as a list of needs, each with what area of development can fill that need. (it's an excel document if you want to be exact)
For example:
-Crate
Needs: Model, Texture, Sound Effects, UI prompts, collision, push/pull interaction, destruction, test parameters, analytics, etc...
I'm a programmer, most often gameplay, so I will get the tasks to have a player be able to push/pull the box and have the object respond to damage messages and spawn cookies when it is destroyed. (Programmers will fill in gaps for design and art when needed)
It is not uncommon for back and forth interaction with designers. In F3AR there is the "Zap" grenade, the original design document called for a grenades that filled a room with fast hardening foam (think air bag in demolition man). That pretty much was impossible in the scope of the game, so we boiled down to what the exact task was "a grenade type that would block of passage ways to limited the movement of actors". So we replaced the foam with an electric field and got a much cheaper implementation and still solved the need of the designer. (remember what I said about communication being the top skill to have)
It is also very common for to have lines that read "We want X feature from that game" because it's better to show instead of tell.
@Salarn: Thanks, that's much more clinical than I expected. Good to know!
@Jay444111 said:
@Salarn: What is the one thing that you or other developers hate when it comes to programming/making a video game the most? Trying to overcome a gamebreaking glitch? Trying to use a new language for the game? Or just random computer problems/ectera?
The number one thing that I hate is compile times and deployment to multiple platforms. There is nothing worse than rushing as fast as you can to fix a critical issue, and then having to wait 20+ minutes for a build to compile (god help you if you need new pch files), and then slowly watch it go out to other go to out to four dev kits in the QC pit because that F3AR UI bug only happens in 4 player games. *twitch* *twitch*
Oh, sorry, it was for the PS3 that's an entirely different build target.
I love my work, I hate it when my work prevents me from working.
Okay, it's gotten a bit late tonight. Thanks for all the questions, I do not typically have loads of time to answer questions, but feel free to PM me or what not and I'll try to answer what I can when I can.
@Salarn: Thanks again. I generally prefer Quick Looks to reviews as well, they are probably the best innovation that the GB crew has come up with. I would say that ignoring review scores is great, as long as your bonuses for completing your project aren't tied to Metacritic :-) . Hopefully, Snider and Alexis can do some cool things with the redesign to make better comments rise to the top like cream.
One last question, I swear, I swear!!! With F3EAR, did the publisher view it as a successful title, and did your developer view it as a success? Did you view it as a success? If yes or no for you, why do you feel that way?
@hardindr said:
@Salarn: Thanks again. I generally prefer Quick Looks to reviews as well, they are probably the best innovation that the GB crew has come up with. I would say that ignoring review scores is great, as long as your bonuses for completing your project aren't tied to Metacritic :-) . Hopefully, Snider and Alexis can do some cool things with the redesign to make better comments rise to the top like cream.
One last question, I swear, I swear!!! With F3EAR, did the publisher view it as a successful title, and did your developer view it as a success? Did you view it as a success? If yes or no for you, why do you feel that way?
I'm only answering after the cutoff time because I love you.
The game was successfully put to market, that puts it in the top 25% of games already. As far as I know, the game was not profitable for the publisher. I was laid off shortly after the game was released. Then a few months later.
Do I think F3AR was a success? Actually I do, I am very proud of my work that is in the game, and personally I feel F3AR was a success to me in my eyes. There are elements of the UI, gameplay and equipment that I point to any non-gamer family member and say. "I made that, and millions of people have seen it."
@Salarn: Thank you for answering my question! Sounds like the PS3 really is hard to develop for...
Another thing I have been wondering for a while is. I'm not sure how much you have been reading through video game news, but Bioware released Mass Effect 3 the internet exploded completely with day one DLC and with how the ending was lied about and turned out to be a dues ex sorta ending.
How did other developers actually react to that? I mean from outside Bioware? Did it effect job performance at all in the writing team or the design team of your games?
I've not had much call to write platform specific code, so while, it may be in my opinion that the PS3 was initially hard to program for than the 360 most engines have sorted that out. The layers I work in such as gameplay is all cross platform. The biggest issue I see in development is lack of memory, which is a bit worse on the PS3 because it is split into two 256mb chunks instead of the combined 512mb on the 360, but if we could ship you all 1gb Dev 360s we would.
I cannot speak directly on the Mass Effect 3 DLC/Ending controversy. I enjoyed ME3, I would say ME2 was the best of the three games. Garrus deserves his own game.
Day one DLC, on disk or not, is a very big topic. It's a bit to late for me to go into details, and much of it is heavily opinionated. In a nutshell, games are not made as if the entire team was running a marathon, it's more like relay race, some people finish before others. To be financially successful, you want everyone to keep running so you move the people who finished early onto a different track. DLC will exist in every game it can as long as it's profitable. I wouldn't expect see an effect, if any, from ME3 controversy until the next cycle of games (hard to shift mid production), but I am doubtful even then.
DLC makes money, because lots of people buy it. Putting the DLC on the disk is smart, first off it saves me money (~1$ per gb downloaded), secondly it makes compatibility for online player easier, and finally I hate turning on a game and then getting blocked by a 15 minute download of a mandatory update. Game releases never seem to land when I have time to play them, and I generally get most games out of the 30 day launch window. I find my game buying dollar goes a lot farther if I wait a month or two when most games get a half price sale. First day or 100th day the content of the DLC has to have value, not the place I get it from or time it's available.
@Salarn: Wait wait wait wait... did you just call On disk DLC... smart?
...I am sorry to be rude. But there is a reason why all video gamers of all ages hate it for very very good reasons and since we never had to deal with this last generation with the PS2 and all that, we have a legitimate complaint about any and all on disk DLC.
First off, why are we forced to pay for content on a disk we bought full price? Aren't we supposed to own the game now that we bought it?
Second, Why not just put it into the game and just make original content to go along with it. (costumes/expansion or something which wasn't part of the disc.) I understand it is more expensive to do that. But... why not is all I am asking, especially if you say you get a bunch of money from DLC.
Third, when a server goes off for said game, there is literally no chance to ever get that DLC back in any way shape or form... or unlock that DLC in any shape or form... what about that?
Fourth, DLC never goes down in price. Even for ones which have dead multiplayers have never gotten down in price, why is that? (Fear 1's multiplayer maps still cost 800 points and it's servers closed down years ago. Also just recently Sabatoer's servers for their... um... 'naked' DLC just went down and that DLC is officially lost forever which was from a single player game and was first day DLC as well.)
Fifth, With the uprising of pirating actually heating up debates about DLC on disk and even DRM (another topic which every gamer hates.) How do you feel about all this, on pirates, On Disc DLC as a consumer then as a maker, and DRM from both the consumer point of view and of the maker.
There are plenty of things we gamers would really like to know and would like changed so we consumers do not feel like we are getting ripped off. Which On disc DLC does make us think of. You guys might not. But when I find out I bought an incomplete game I feel like I just got the game taken away out of my control of what I want to do with it. No one likes that feeling.
I realize this post may get completely ignored. But these are legitimate questions from many gamers about the nature of these things. We understand that not all parts of the game are made at the same time. But when a part of that gets taken out in order to be sold to us... yeah... we get pretty unhappy about that. I apologize if I sound like I am attacking you. But I personally have dealt with many strife of the modern digital era in terms of DLC problems/DRM problems and would like answers to them.
Edit... Err... the third and fourth are pretty much the same, I apologize for that.
@Jay444111: I think it's one of those things were those in the industry see it as smart. I imagine that it is fairly obvious that most consumers do not see it the same way.
I certainly don't. He mentions that production is like a relay race, and that some teams finish before others, so they presumably get put to work on DLC. I'd have to imagine before the current generation of consoles, any team working on side stuff that wraps up before the game goes gold would have been put on the disc, otherwise why were they even working on it? Ostensibly this generation offered the opportunity to put out any material that wasn't finished before going gold as a later addition. Then it became same day. Then it became on disc.
You will also notice the 4 reasons he gives are money, money, online capability, and not wanting to wait for downloads. Sure, he listed three reasons, but in the sentence right before that he mentions that it is profitable. In any business, that's always a big focus. So, from the emic perspective, it's quite smart. From the etic? Not so much.
Can you get me a job?
how was your relationship with Lucasarts making fracture and were they very friendly?
@TentPole said:
@Jay444111: Not all gamers hate on-disc DLC. I hate shitty DLC regardless of delivery method. Why the fuck should you care how it is delivered especially if it can be delivered in such a way as to give the end user a better experience. Grow up.
Actually, polls all over online have a good 85 to 90 percent dislike for On disc DLC. So yeah. A bunch of people do hate it and the idea of it. Not until there is a insanely indepth documentery of video game development in the current age do I think it will ever be forgiven by most people.
Actually... that brings up another question. Why DOESN'T a video game developer have a documentory film go on as they develop a game? I imagine they would pay a good amount to get the film and allow them to film you guys while you also show people the industry indepth. Win for everyone involved.
@Jay444111 said:
@TentPole said:
@Jay444111: Not all gamers hate on-disc DLC. I hate shitty DLC regardless of delivery method. Why the fuck should you care how it is delivered especially if it can be delivered in such a way as to give the end user a better experience. Grow up.
Actually, polls all over online have a good 85 to 90 percent dislike for On disc DLC.
This is not "all"
@smallmanoncampus said:
@Jay444111 said:
@TentPole said:
@Jay444111: Not all gamers hate on-disc DLC. I hate shitty DLC regardless of delivery method. Why the fuck should you care how it is delivered especially if it can be delivered in such a way as to give the end user a better experience. Grow up.
Actually, polls all over online have a good 85 to 90 percent dislike for On disc DLC.
This is not "all"
Alot! Are you happy! ALOT!!! Let's move on please!
Please Log In to post.
Log in to comment