#1 Edited by Akyho (1594 posts) -

Right so with Mass effect 3 having people complain and demanding a change to the ending. I see alot of people that are saying "They are the developers! They make the game! You have no say! Shut up!" ofcourse alot of the other side is "We are not happy with it. we DEMAND a change!".

We are however customers, there is a certain amount of customer entitlement. We SHOULD speak up. Let the companies know when we think it is wrong. That also dosnt mean everyone is right. Those who are not happy need to voice themselves and hope that the feedback it taken in some form.

You as a customer happy or not about a companies decisions shouldn't just lay back and take things. We shouldnt be in "Fear" or "submissive". I never like it when people say "SHUT UP! their game! Their rules! you have no power!" You do have power. Its your choice in using.

Companies are not always right. However that dosnt mean they are always wrong. Criticism molds betters things, however criticism can also destroy. Its up to the company to weigh the criticism. Not us. We give them the info and hope something better comes out of it.

I played an MMO Starquest. It was heavy roleplay and in the end the admins and game devs made decisions I and other were not happy with and we quit. Thats our choice and the admins and game devs made their choice. However we were met with alot of people that acted that the admins and game devs were gods. They can never be wrong and argued "Their game, Their rules!" However we were paying customers. As of right now the company that was makeing and ran Star quest, they just disappeared. They didnt say anything and just left. They sold over to another company thats remaking and updating it and it will be Free to play model. Now that the old company is gone. There is alot of discussion about bad decisions and such. Except this is also coming from people that AT the time said "Their game! shut up". As if there was a fear over the admins.

Whats everyone thoughts? Should we try and argue with companies or should we just shut up and appreciate what have?

#2 Edited by iWonder (454 posts) -

(Note that this response is in reference to EA, which I assume is the point of this topic?)

It should be a simple decision if you're against what they're doing.

Just don't buy EA's games anymore. Seriously. Mass Effect 3 pissed off people, (though critics seemed to like it, so I guess at a clinical level it's a good game), just like Dragon Age 2 pissed off people, just like the online pass pissed off people, just like the dropped-in teasing NPC's that would tell you about a quest then tell you that you had to buy said quest, just like etc.

If you're not, well you certainly have a point with customer entitlement. There isn't a gold standard games are held to. The only thing that keeps the gaming industry in check is a simple, privately-run ratings board and reviews. So you have a point that the customer is not entitled to be pissed off - really, there is nothing in place that says the gamer should have x, y, or z.

#3 Posted by Brians (1460 posts) -

I think picking your battles is a better thing to do. I also feel it be incredibly insulting to create something and have people demand changes in a week.

#4 Posted by CaptainCody (1505 posts) -

@Brians said:

I think picking your battles is a better thing to do. I also feel it be incredibly insulting to create something and have people demand changes in a week.

It's also insulting to customers to lock content on discs.

#5 Posted by ChaosDent (234 posts) -

It's fair to criticize a company's product and to offer suggestions directly or indirectly for improvements.  I think some of the Bioware fan--or perhaps ex-fan--community goes way too far in their methods. It's better for your own sake to stop investing time and energy into products and companies that have disappointed you too many times. Especially in video games, where the stakes are so low for us consumers, not caring about companies and franchises you've grown bored or frustrated with leaves you with so much more time and attention to care about the products that do excite you.

#6 Posted by Animasta (14667 posts) -

@Brians said:

I think picking your battles is a better thing to do. I also feel it be incredibly insulting to create something and have people demand changes in a week.

they have to have known this would be badly received though..

#7 Posted by iWonder (454 posts) -

@CaptainCody said:

@Brians said:

I think picking your battles is a better thing to do. I also feel it be incredibly insulting to create something and have people demand changes in a week.

It's also insulting to customers to lock content on discs.

That's a different ball game altogether, though I won't argue there haven't been at least a few slimy and egregious misuses of that system.

Jeff did a really great argument for what we're talking about. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJP38W6dbU8

#8 Posted by nickux (1385 posts) -

I may not have liked the way Casablanca ended. I wanted her to end up with Rick, of course. But I would not have demanded they change the ending. Those are the decisions of the creators, not the viewers. I use Casablanca as an example of a bittersweet ending that, with the passage of time, has become a classic moment in cinema history because the notion of changing it would be sacrilegious to so many. I simply disagree with the fundamental basis of the argument being put forth in the original post that just because we are consuming media it gives us the right to demand anything. Notice I said the word "demand". It's ok to not prefer or like the ending of a book, film, game, album, etc. but it's another thing entirely to think you have any say in what is not yours to begin with. Those choices belong to those who make it.

#9 Posted by Brodehouse (9793 posts) -

I am fine with the From Ashes DLC on a conceptual level (though not an actual value level).

I am more than fine with the 60 dollar retail Mass Effect 3.

I think the ending is a severe miscalculation.

I think it would be in BioWare and EA's best interests to do something to fix the ending.

This isn't me talking from a self-centered "you owe it to me to give me more", this is straight business sense. Mass Effect 3 is negatively affected in quality by the current ending. It is not really negatively affected by not having Javik in the main game. In a world where DLC never existed, Mass Effect 3 without Javik is still great, and still has a terrible ending.

It's funny for everything people try to pin on EA, the problem with the ending is purely artistic. Unless Walters comes out and says "EA told us to make a fake ending so we can sell the real one later" this one is at the feet of the creatives.

And if EA did tell them that, then this is definitely bad business sense. Because they've hampered their 60 dollar product to sell a 10 dollar product.

#10 Posted by yinstarrunner (1185 posts) -

I think demanding a change to the ending is kind of stupid. The only way they'll change it is through DLC, and so demanding something like that will just encourage them to do so. "You asked for it, only a measly $15 to see what REALLY happened!" This is the ending they chose to put in the game. Yes, it's shitty, but it's the hole they've dug. Just keep this in mind when Bioware introduces their next story-based RPG.

From Ashes is dumb. It should have been included for free in the same vein as Zaeed from ME2. If it's done by release, then throw your customers a bone and give them some extra value, instead of arbitrarily adding $10 to your asking price. What are you paying for, anyway? A lore-important character that's already on the disc and a short ass mission for 1/6 the price of the ENTIRE GAME? Don't buy into this bullshit, please. If you've got this game on PC and you absolutely MUST see this content, then I suggest you obtain it through other means. Don't get nickel-and-dimed by EA. You aren't "entitled" to this content, but they also aren't entitled to your money.

#11 Posted by 71Ranchero (2733 posts) -

Im calling up Warner Music later because track 11 on this CD I bought isnt very good. I demand they re-record it.

Online
#12 Posted by yoshisaur (2700 posts) -

@Atramentous said:

Im calling up Warner Music later because track 11 on this CD I bought isnt very good. I demand they re-record it.

LOL

#13 Edited by Kevin_Cogneto (1030 posts) -

Demanding the company change an already-existing product purely because you didn't care for it is not synonymous with criticism. It's surprising how many people are having difficulty with this.

EDIT:

@Atramentous said:

Im calling up Warner Music later because track 11 on this CD I bought isnt very good. I demand they re-record it.

Bingo. You win the analogy of the day prize.

#14 Edited by Akyho (1594 posts) -

@nickux said:

I may not have liked the way Casablanca ended. I wanted her to end up with Rick, of course. But I would not have demanded they change the ending. Those are the decisions of the creators, not the viewers. I use Casablanca as an example of a bittersweet ending that, with the passage of time, has become a classic moment in cinema history because the notion of changing it would be sacrilegious to so many. I simply disagree with the fundamental basis of the argument being put forth in the original post that just because we are consuming media it gives us the right to demand anything. Notice I said the word "demand". It's ok to not prefer or like the ending of a book, film, game, album, etc. but it's another thing entirely to think you have any say in what is not yours to begin with. Those choices belong to those who make it.

My argument is just like yours. I dont think we should demand.

We are in our full rights as customers and consumers to criticize however to demand is not in our rights. It is to the discretion of the company and all we can do is hope they listen.

However. if they do listen. What about the other side. The people that are happy with things as they are. That is why we cannot demand since we are robbing other people of their opinions and thoughts.

@Atramentous said:

Im calling up Warner Music later because track 11 on this CD I bought isnt very good. I demand they re-record it.

YES. You can phone up and criticize them, However you can not phone up and demand. You are right with that analogy. You win.

@yinstarrunner said:

I think demanding a change to the ending is kind of stupid. The only way they'll change it is through DLC, and so demanding something like that will just encourage them to do so. "You asked for it, only a measly $15 to see what REALLY happened!" This is the ending they chose to put in the game. Yes, it's shitty, but it's the hole they've dug. Just keep this in mind when Bioware introduces their next story-based RPG.

From Ashes is dumb. It should have been included for free in the same vein as Zaeed from ME2. If it's done by release, then throw your customers a bone and give them some extra value, instead of arbitrarily adding $10 to your asking price. What are you paying for, anyway? A lore-important character that's already on the disc and a short ass mission for 1/6 the price of the ENTIRE GAME? Don't buy into this bullshit, please. If you've got this game on PC and you absolutely MUST see this content, then I suggest you obtain it through other means. Don't get nickel-and-dimed by EA. You aren't "entitled" to this content, but they also aren't entitled to your money.

You are right about all of it. I was disappointing by Zaheed. However he was a bonus free on Day one. The criticize isnt gone but lowered to almost no sense to complain too hard.

From Ashes DLC from the sounds of it is the same deal. Except because its an important Lore character they threw the money value on it.

#15 Edited by CaptainCody (1505 posts) -

@Atramentous said:

Im calling up Warner Music later because track 11 on this CD I bought isnt very good. I demand they re-record it.

In no way is that analogy accurate (They never are). For that analogy to work, track 11 would have to be central to the whole musical experience, along with it being hailed as an important part of the CD and revered by critics, not to mention it determining the entire value of the CD itself.

@iWonder said:

@CaptainCody said:

@Brians said:

I think picking your battles is a better thing to do. I also feel it be incredibly insulting to create something and have people demand changes in a week.

It's also insulting to customers to lock content on discs.

That's a different ball game altogether, though I won't argue there haven't been at least a few slimy and egregious misuses of that system.

Jeff did a really great argument for what we're talking about. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJP38W6dbU8

Yeah, I remember watching that. I only brought it up so that their could be an understanding that we both have reasons to complain at each other. Personally, I haven't gotten ME3 yet, but, if the ending is that bad then I'll never buy a Bioware game or EA product again.

#16 Posted by HistoryInRust (6289 posts) -

Vote with your dollar.

#17 Posted by HadesTimes (804 posts) -

This argument is pretty simple. Just about all Star Wars fans hate episodes 1-3. Did Lucas go back and change them? No. Does he care? No. And that my friends is the way it SHOULD be!

#18 Posted by Milkman (16619 posts) -

I'm going to go buy the complete series blu-ray of Lost so I can take out that dumb church stuff. That's how this works, right?

#19 Posted by Lagaroth (170 posts) -

People need to just pretend it doesn't exist. Fan amnesia is a powerful tool that has saved fans of many series. You can pretend that the ending didn't happen just like I pretend that Mass Effect 2, Mass Effect 3, the Star Wars prequels, and Warcraft after Frozen Throne never happened. And/Or people can start writing fan fiction.

That is the wonderful thing about fiction, you can change it in your head to be something you like more. No one can control that.

Other than the government with the chip they inserted at birth. Or the corporations that own the government.

#20 Edited by iWonder (454 posts) -

@HistoryInRust said:

Vote with your dollar.

@CaptainCody said:

I'll never buy a Bioware game or EA product again.

These are both great decisions.

#21 Posted by lockwoodx (2479 posts) -

If you didn't see this coming a mile away....

#22 Posted by hbkdx12 (779 posts) -

The idea of customer entitlement is ridiculous. 
 
I haven't even played the game and i don't plan to but the idea that people want to put pressure on the dev/pub to change the ending is absurd. 
 
You have every right to be upset about it and/or criticize it but to essentially say "your product is broken based on my creative standards, fix it" is assinine.  
 
It's stupid shit like this that shits all over the video game industry and how other people/industries perceive it.
 
People pull shit like this and  then wonder why we get stupid shit like the Spike VGAs.

#23 Posted by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -

@nickux said:

I may not have liked the way Casablanca ended. I wanted her to end up with Rick, of course. But I would not have demanded they change the ending. Those are the decisions of the creators, not the viewers. I use Casablanca as an example of a bittersweet ending that, with the passage of time, has become a classic moment in cinema history because the notion of changing it would be sacrilegious to so many. I simply disagree with the fundamental basis of the argument being put forth in the original post that just because we are consuming media it gives us the right to demand anything. Notice I said the word "demand". It's ok to not prefer or like the ending of a book, film, game, album, etc. but it's another thing entirely to think you have any say in what is not yours to begin with. Those choices belong to those who make it.

Yeah, but Casablanca had a good ending, despite it being bittersweet. Ultimately, it's majority rule. And it seems the majority doesn't feel like ME3 had a good ending. So they are entitled to demand a change. Not that it's gonna happen. If i was in EA/BioWare in a high ranking position, I'd be laughing my ass off right now.

#24 Edited by Kevin_Cogneto (1030 posts) -

@TheDudeOfGaming said:

@nickux said:

I may not have liked the way Casablanca ended. I wanted her to end up with Rick, of course. But I would not have demanded they change the ending. Those are the decisions of the creators, not the viewers. I use Casablanca as an example of a bittersweet ending that, with the passage of time, has become a classic moment in cinema history because the notion of changing it would be sacrilegious to so many. I simply disagree with the fundamental basis of the argument being put forth in the original post that just because we are consuming media it gives us the right to demand anything. Notice I said the word "demand". It's ok to not prefer or like the ending of a book, film, game, album, etc. but it's another thing entirely to think you have any say in what is not yours to begin with. Those choices belong to those who make it.

Yeah, but Casablanca had a good ending, despite it being bittersweet. Ultimately, it's majority rule. And it seems the majority doesn't feel like ME3 had a good ending. So they are entitled to demand a change. Not that it's gonna happen. If i was in EA/BioWare in a high ranking position, I'd be laughing my ass off right now.

Works of fiction should be majority rule? Are you serious? "Hey author, we know you worked hard to get your story just right, but we took a vote and decided FUCK YOU."

#25 Edited by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -

@Kevin_Cogneto said:

@TheDudeOfGaming said:

@nickux said:

I may not have liked the way Casablanca ended. I wanted her to end up with Rick, of course. But I would not have demanded they change the ending. Those are the decisions of the creators, not the viewers. I use Casablanca as an example of a bittersweet ending that, with the passage of time, has become a classic moment in cinema history because the notion of changing it would be sacrilegious to so many. I simply disagree with the fundamental basis of the argument being put forth in the original post that just because we are consuming media it gives us the right to demand anything. Notice I said the word "demand". It's ok to not prefer or like the ending of a book, film, game, album, etc. but it's another thing entirely to think you have any say in what is not yours to begin with. Those choices belong to those who make it.

Yeah, but Casablanca had a good ending, despite it being bittersweet. Ultimately, it's majority rule. And it seems the majority doesn't feel like ME3 had a good ending. So they are entitled to demand a change. Not that it's gonna happen. If i was in EA/BioWare in a high ranking position, I'd be laughing my ass off right now.

Works of fiction should be majority rule? Are you serious? "Hey author, we know you worked hard to get your story just right, but we took a vote and decided FUCK YOU."

When Arthur Conan Doyle killed off Sherlock Holmes, fans went out in black and started marching and demanding the return of the worlds greatest detective. When someone pays money for a product and they aren't happy with it, the least they're entitled to is to voice their opinion. I'm not saying BioWare HAS to change the ending, I am saying those who bought it can say what they think of it, and if they want to, demand a change. And really, worked hard to get your story right? Have you seen the ending?

#26 Posted by JoeyRavn (4962 posts) -

@Kevin_Cogneto said:

@TheDudeOfGaming said:

@nickux said:

I may not have liked the way Casablanca ended. I wanted her to end up with Rick, of course. But I would not have demanded they change the ending. Those are the decisions of the creators, not the viewers. I use Casablanca as an example of a bittersweet ending that, with the passage of time, has become a classic moment in cinema history because the notion of changing it would be sacrilegious to so many. I simply disagree with the fundamental basis of the argument being put forth in the original post that just because we are consuming media it gives us the right to demand anything. Notice I said the word "demand". It's ok to not prefer or like the ending of a book, film, game, album, etc. but it's another thing entirely to think you have any say in what is not yours to begin with. Those choices belong to those who make it.

Yeah, but Casablanca had a good ending, despite it being bittersweet. Ultimately, it's majority rule. And it seems the majority doesn't feel like ME3 had a good ending. So they are entitled to demand a change. Not that it's gonna happen. If i was in EA/BioWare in a high ranking position, I'd be laughing my ass off right now.

Works of fiction should be majority rule? Are you serious? "Hey author, we know you worked hard to get your story just right, but we took a vote and decided FUCK YOU."

The difference between Casablanca (or any novel, or movie, or song) and a video game like Mass Effect 3 is the level of interactivity. Mind you, I haven't finished the game yet, but from what I've heard, EA-Bioware completely ignore major decisions from previous games and that's what bothers people the most. In a non-interactive medium, you have to take the ending as it is. You may like it or not, but that's how the author intended it to be. The problem with Mass Effect is that it is all based around your own decisions. If you've played the Arrival DLC for ME2, you'll know that EA-Bioware is quick to go back on their promises and force the player to do whatever they want the player to do. You either go all the way down the path of user-defined decisions, or you give them a closed story. But you shouldn't give the player the illusion of choice just to take it away whenever you feel like it.

Of course, the idea of signing a petition to change the ending is a bit silly, but people are entitled to their opinion. If they feel EA-Bioware has cheated them with ME3's ending, they have the right to make an uproar about it, especially given the company's previous history of doing so.

#27 Edited by Kevin_Cogneto (1030 posts) -

@TheDudeOfGaming said:

@Kevin_Cogneto said:

@TheDudeOfGaming said:

@nickux said:

I may not have liked the way Casablanca ended. I wanted her to end up with Rick, of course. But I would not have demanded they change the ending. Those are the decisions of the creators, not the viewers. I use Casablanca as an example of a bittersweet ending that, with the passage of time, has become a classic moment in cinema history because the notion of changing it would be sacrilegious to so many. I simply disagree with the fundamental basis of the argument being put forth in the original post that just because we are consuming media it gives us the right to demand anything. Notice I said the word "demand". It's ok to not prefer or like the ending of a book, film, game, album, etc. but it's another thing entirely to think you have any say in what is not yours to begin with. Those choices belong to those who make it.

Yeah, but Casablanca had a good ending, despite it being bittersweet. Ultimately, it's majority rule. And it seems the majority doesn't feel like ME3 had a good ending. So they are entitled to demand a change. Not that it's gonna happen. If i was in EA/BioWare in a high ranking position, I'd be laughing my ass off right now.

Works of fiction should be majority rule? Are you serious? "Hey author, we know you worked hard to get your story just right, but we took a vote and decided FUCK YOU."

When Arthur Conan Doyle killed off Sherlock Holmes, fans went out in black and started marching and demanding the return of the worlds greatest detective. When someone pays money for a product and they aren't happy with it, the least they're entitled to is to voice their opinion. I'm not saying BioWare HAS to change the ending, I am saying those who bought it can say what they think of it, and if they want to, demand a change. And really, worked hard to get your story right? Have you seen the ending?

For fuck's sake, you have the right to voice your opinion! You don't have the right to demand changes to a finished game! Stop equating the two like they're the same thing, or my fucking head will explode! And to use your own example, Arthur Conan Doyle did bring Sherlock Holmes back from the dead -- in the NEXT novel. He didn't go to the publisher and have them recall the book and re-publish it with a brand new ending.

The very idea that if a majority of consumers were dissatisfied with a work of fiction that they should somehow have the right to vote in a change is nauseating. Why not just fire the writers and send out a bunch of fucking questionnaires if you want to do it that way. Seriously, if you left the ending in the hands of ordinary gamers, you'd end up with an ending where Shepard is basically Duke Nukem, killing Harbinger with his bare hands while smoking a cigar making a dick jokes, while every Mass Effect love interest joins in a giant lesbian orgy behind him.

#28 Posted by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -

@Kevin_Cogneto said:

@TheDudeOfGaming said:

@Kevin_Cogneto said:

@TheDudeOfGaming said:

@nickux said:

I may not have liked the way Casablanca ended. I wanted her to end up with Rick, of course. But I would not have demanded they change the ending. Those are the decisions of the creators, not the viewers. I use Casablanca as an example of a bittersweet ending that, with the passage of time, has become a classic moment in cinema history because the notion of changing it would be sacrilegious to so many. I simply disagree with the fundamental basis of the argument being put forth in the original post that just because we are consuming media it gives us the right to demand anything. Notice I said the word "demand". It's ok to not prefer or like the ending of a book, film, game, album, etc. but it's another thing entirely to think you have any say in what is not yours to begin with. Those choices belong to those who make it.

Yeah, but Casablanca had a good ending, despite it being bittersweet. Ultimately, it's majority rule. And it seems the majority doesn't feel like ME3 had a good ending. So they are entitled to demand a change. Not that it's gonna happen. If i was in EA/BioWare in a high ranking position, I'd be laughing my ass off right now.

Works of fiction should be majority rule? Are you serious? "Hey author, we know you worked hard to get your story just right, but we took a vote and decided FUCK YOU."

When Arthur Conan Doyle killed off Sherlock Holmes, fans went out in black and started marching and demanding the return of the worlds greatest detective. When someone pays money for a product and they aren't happy with it, the least they're entitled to is to voice their opinion. I'm not saying BioWare HAS to change the ending, I am saying those who bought it can say what they think of it, and if they want to, demand a change. And really, worked hard to get your story right? Have you seen the ending?

For fuck's sake, you have the right to voice your opinion! You don't have the right to demand changes to a finished game! Stop equating the two like they're the same thing, or my fucking head will explode! And to use your own example, Arthur Conan Doyle did bring Sherlock Holmes back from the dead -- in the NEXT novel. He didn't go to the publisher and have them recall the book and re-publish it with a brand new ending.

The very idea that if a majority of consumers were dissatisfied with a work of fiction that they should somehow have the right to vote in a change is nauseating. Why not just fire the writers and send out a bunch of fucking questionnaires if you want to do it that way. Seriously, if you left the ending in the hands of ordinary gamers, you'd end up with an ending where Shepard is basically Duke Nukem, killing Harbinger with his bare hands while smoking a cigar making a dick jokes, while every Mass Effect love interest joins in a giant lesbian orgy behind him.

Alright, basically it comes down to this. I give you money. I'm not happy with the service provided. Your God damn right I can say and demand whatever i want. You know what they say, the customer is always right, even when the customer is wrong.

#29 Edited by Kevin_Cogneto (1030 posts) -

@TheDudeOfGaming said:

@Kevin_Cogneto said:

@TheDudeOfGaming said:

@Kevin_Cogneto said:

@TheDudeOfGaming said:

@nickux said:

I may not have liked the way Casablanca ended. I wanted her to end up with Rick, of course. But I would not have demanded they change the ending. Those are the decisions of the creators, not the viewers. I use Casablanca as an example of a bittersweet ending that, with the passage of time, has become a classic moment in cinema history because the notion of changing it would be sacrilegious to so many. I simply disagree with the fundamental basis of the argument being put forth in the original post that just because we are consuming media it gives us the right to demand anything. Notice I said the word "demand". It's ok to not prefer or like the ending of a book, film, game, album, etc. but it's another thing entirely to think you have any say in what is not yours to begin with. Those choices belong to those who make it.

Yeah, but Casablanca had a good ending, despite it being bittersweet. Ultimately, it's majority rule. And it seems the majority doesn't feel like ME3 had a good ending. So they are entitled to demand a change. Not that it's gonna happen. If i was in EA/BioWare in a high ranking position, I'd be laughing my ass off right now.

Works of fiction should be majority rule? Are you serious? "Hey author, we know you worked hard to get your story just right, but we took a vote and decided FUCK YOU."

When Arthur Conan Doyle killed off Sherlock Holmes, fans went out in black and started marching and demanding the return of the worlds greatest detective. When someone pays money for a product and they aren't happy with it, the least they're entitled to is to voice their opinion. I'm not saying BioWare HAS to change the ending, I am saying those who bought it can say what they think of it, and if they want to, demand a change. And really, worked hard to get your story right? Have you seen the ending?

For fuck's sake, you have the right to voice your opinion! You don't have the right to demand changes to a finished game! Stop equating the two like they're the same thing, or my fucking head will explode! And to use your own example, Arthur Conan Doyle did bring Sherlock Holmes back from the dead -- in the NEXT novel. He didn't go to the publisher and have them recall the book and re-publish it with a brand new ending.

The very idea that if a majority of consumers were dissatisfied with a work of fiction that they should somehow have the right to vote in a change is nauseating. Why not just fire the writers and send out a bunch of fucking questionnaires if you want to do it that way. Seriously, if you left the ending in the hands of ordinary gamers, you'd end up with an ending where Shepard is basically Duke Nukem, killing Harbinger with his bare hands while smoking a cigar making a dick jokes, while every Mass Effect love interest joins in a giant lesbian orgy behind him.

Alright, basically it comes down to this. I give you money. I'm not happy with the service provided. Your God damn right I can say and demand whatever i want. You know what they say, the customer is always right, even when the customer is wrong.

Congrats on providing the textbook definition of entitlement.

#30 Posted by LiquidSwords (2738 posts) -

These comments are just as embarrassing as the ones on today's Bombcast.

#31 Posted by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -

@Kevin_Cogneto said:

@TheDudeOfGaming said:

@Kevin_Cogneto said:

@TheDudeOfGaming said:

@Kevin_Cogneto said:

@TheDudeOfGaming said:

@nickux said:

I may not have liked the way Casablanca ended. I wanted her to end up with Rick, of course. But I would not have demanded they change the ending. Those are the decisions of the creators, not the viewers. I use Casablanca as an example of a bittersweet ending that, with the passage of time, has become a classic moment in cinema history because the notion of changing it would be sacrilegious to so many. I simply disagree with the fundamental basis of the argument being put forth in the original post that just because we are consuming media it gives us the right to demand anything. Notice I said the word "demand". It's ok to not prefer or like the ending of a book, film, game, album, etc. but it's another thing entirely to think you have any say in what is not yours to begin with. Those choices belong to those who make it.

Yeah, but Casablanca had a good ending, despite it being bittersweet. Ultimately, it's majority rule. And it seems the majority doesn't feel like ME3 had a good ending. So they are entitled to demand a change. Not that it's gonna happen. If i was in EA/BioWare in a high ranking position, I'd be laughing my ass off right now.

Works of fiction should be majority rule? Are you serious? "Hey author, we know you worked hard to get your story just right, but we took a vote and decided FUCK YOU."

When Arthur Conan Doyle killed off Sherlock Holmes, fans went out in black and started marching and demanding the return of the worlds greatest detective. When someone pays money for a product and they aren't happy with it, the least they're entitled to is to voice their opinion. I'm not saying BioWare HAS to change the ending, I am saying those who bought it can say what they think of it, and if they want to, demand a change. And really, worked hard to get your story right? Have you seen the ending?

For fuck's sake, you have the right to voice your opinion! You don't have the right to demand changes to a finished game! Stop equating the two like they're the same thing, or my fucking head will explode! And to use your own example, Arthur Conan Doyle did bring Sherlock Holmes back from the dead -- in the NEXT novel. He didn't go to the publisher and have them recall the book and re-publish it with a brand new ending.

The very idea that if a majority of consumers were dissatisfied with a work of fiction that they should somehow have the right to vote in a change is nauseating. Why not just fire the writers and send out a bunch of fucking questionnaires if you want to do it that way. Seriously, if you left the ending in the hands of ordinary gamers, you'd end up with an ending where Shepard is basically Duke Nukem, killing Harbinger with his bare hands while smoking a cigar making a dick jokes, while every Mass Effect love interest joins in a giant lesbian orgy behind him.

Alright, basically it comes down to this. I give you money. I'm not happy with the service provided. Your God damn right I can say and demand whatever i want. You know what they say, the customer is always right, even when the customer is wrong.

Congrats on providing the textbook definition of entitlement.

Hey, don't look at me dude. I don't feel entitled, hell, i haven't even bought or played the game because i had a feeling something like this might happen. I was just arguing that when you give someone your hard earned money, for a service, and you aren't happy with it, you complain. That's it.

#32 Posted by Grillbar (1812 posts) -

i dont understand why people fly of the handle over something like this.

yes its to bad that the ending sucked but come on, its just a fucking game. i know everyone had high hopes for it but still. @CaptainCody said:

I'll never buy a Bioware game or EA product again.

good luck with that

lets see how long that last

#33 Posted by Pezen (1591 posts) -
@nickux : Amen! Also, Casablanca is pretty great.
#34 Posted by selbie (1879 posts) -

The customer is entitled to an opinion, but that doesn't count for much if nobody else gives a fuck.

#35 Posted by iWonder (454 posts) -

@Kevin_Cogneto said:

@TheDudeOfGaming said:

@nickux said:

I may not have liked the way Casablanca ended. I wanted her to end up with Rick, of course. But I would not have demanded they change the ending. Those are the decisions of the creators, not the viewers. I use Casablanca as an example of a bittersweet ending that, with the passage of time, has become a classic moment in cinema history because the notion of changing it would be sacrilegious to so many. I simply disagree with the fundamental basis of the argument being put forth in the original post that just because we are consuming media it gives us the right to demand anything. Notice I said the word "demand". It's ok to not prefer or like the ending of a book, film, game, album, etc. but it's another thing entirely to think you have any say in what is not yours to begin with. Those choices belong to those who make it.

Yeah, but Casablanca had a good ending, despite it being bittersweet. Ultimately, it's majority rule. And it seems the majority doesn't feel like ME3 had a good ending. So they are entitled to demand a change. Not that it's gonna happen. If i was in EA/BioWare in a high ranking position, I'd be laughing my ass off right now.

Works of fiction should be majority rule? Are you serious? "Hey author, we know you worked hard to get your story just right, but we took a vote and decided FUCK YOU."

When you put it that way, I suppose that if I ever did get around to finishing my god damn book (which I'm starting to doubt will ever happen, seeing as I've been writing it for 4 years), I would be proper pissed off if a bunch of people got together and told me to take it off the shelves and republish it with a new ending.

#36 Posted by ThePhantomStranger (354 posts) -

@TheDudeOfGaming said:

@Kevin_Cogneto said:

@TheDudeOfGaming said:

@Kevin_Cogneto said:

@TheDudeOfGaming said:

@Kevin_Cogneto said:

@TheDudeOfGaming said:

@nickux said:

I may not have liked the way Casablanca ended. I wanted her to end up with Rick, of course. But I would not have demanded they change the ending. Those are the decisions of the creators, not the viewers. I use Casablanca as an example of a bittersweet ending that, with the passage of time, has become a classic moment in cinema history because the notion of changing it would be sacrilegious to so many. I simply disagree with the fundamental basis of the argument being put forth in the original post that just because we are consuming media it gives us the right to demand anything. Notice I said the word "demand". It's ok to not prefer or like the ending of a book, film, game, album, etc. but it's another thing entirely to think you have any say in what is not yours to begin with. Those choices belong to those who make it.

Yeah, but Casablanca had a good ending, despite it being bittersweet. Ultimately, it's majority rule. And it seems the majority doesn't feel like ME3 had a good ending. So they are entitled to demand a change. Not that it's gonna happen. If i was in EA/BioWare in a high ranking position, I'd be laughing my ass off right now.

Works of fiction should be majority rule? Are you serious? "Hey author, we know you worked hard to get your story just right, but we took a vote and decided FUCK YOU."

When Arthur Conan Doyle killed off Sherlock Holmes, fans went out in black and started marching and demanding the return of the worlds greatest detective. When someone pays money for a product and they aren't happy with it, the least they're entitled to is to voice their opinion. I'm not saying BioWare HAS to change the ending, I am saying those who bought it can say what they think of it, and if they want to, demand a change. And really, worked hard to get your story right? Have you seen the ending?

For fuck's sake, you have the right to voice your opinion! You don't have the right to demand changes to a finished game! Stop equating the two like they're the same thing, or my fucking head will explode! And to use your own example, Arthur Conan Doyle did bring Sherlock Holmes back from the dead -- in the NEXT novel. He didn't go to the publisher and have them recall the book and re-publish it with a brand new ending.

The very idea that if a majority of consumers were dissatisfied with a work of fiction that they should somehow have the right to vote in a change is nauseating. Why not just fire the writers and send out a bunch of fucking questionnaires if you want to do it that way. Seriously, if you left the ending in the hands of ordinary gamers, you'd end up with an ending where Shepard is basically Duke Nukem, killing Harbinger with his bare hands while smoking a cigar making a dick jokes, while every Mass Effect love interest joins in a giant lesbian orgy behind him.

Alright, basically it comes down to this. I give you money. I'm not happy with the service provided. Your God damn right I can say and demand whatever i want. You know what they say, the customer is always right, even when the customer is wrong.

Congrats on providing the textbook definition of entitlement.

Hey, don't look at me dude. I don't feel entitled, hell, i haven't even bought or played the game because i had a feeling something like this might happen. I was just arguing that when you give someone your hard earned money, for a service, and you aren't happy with it, you complain. That's it.

Wait so your saying complain but then also demand? The former is common sense the latter is nonsense in this context.

#37 Posted by supamon (1333 posts) -

You paid money in exchange for a product, not an ending. You got the product. There wasn't a contract or agreement saying this is what's going to happen at the end in exchange for money.

Yes, the ending sucked balls. Yes, people have a right to complain/criticize. No, people don't have a right in demanding a developer change an ending because they didn't like it.

Imagine every game, book, film or song album that sucked at the end. If the creators went and changed the ending just because people didn't like it then does that mean every other ending that is released from now on can be subjected to change as additional paid DLC content if people don't like it?

People just need to accept that EA/Bioware made a turd of an ending and be wary of their future products. Someone on this forum named LordXavierBritish tried to warn people before the game came out and he was shot down hard.

And telling Bioware they'll pay money for a DLC that contains the "true ending" is just dumb. Did everyone just forget about the whole 'From Ashes' deal and how incensed people were for paying extra for what seemed like content that should be included? What the heck?

#38 Posted by SquirrelGOD (501 posts) -

The customer is more than welcome to voice his opinion. But, this shit with games lately where gamers piss and moan for fucking MONTHS about a VIDEO GAME needs to stop. You didn't like the ending? Fine. You've said your peace, now move the fuck on.

#39 Posted by Arker101 (1474 posts) -

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/03/13/mass-effect-3-and-the-pernicious-myth-of-gamer-entitlement/

I saw this link over in another thread, and I agree with most of his opinions. I think wanting DLC Endings is bad because then Bioware will charge you with $15 for the real ending. Lets try to stop Bioware from getting worse, alright?

@Grillbar said:

@CaptainCody said:

I'll never buy a Bioware game or EA product again.

good luck with that

lets see how long that last

If they keep up the trends following DA2 and ME3, it shouldn't be hard for a lot of people to drop them. Other EA games are alright, though.

#40 Edited by Pixelationist (42 posts) -

@HistoryInRust said:

Vote with your dollar.

Totally, will not be buying. Especially since my saves are on PC and it's now on Origin, fuck that.

Asking for a new ending is nothing short of madness at this point but I understand the sentiment. I felt similarly outrage when they cut content from Yakuza 3 and went into blind shit-slinging mode in the sega forums. It only hurts because you love it so much.

I think it is healthy for the community to voice its concerns because publishers will always push for new and sometimes unpalatable ways to squeeze bucks out of us. But say your piece and move on, there are plenty more games to be played out there.

#41 Posted by ADAMWD (580 posts) -

I think it is absolutely insane that some people think that people have no right to speak out their concerns with the game. As someone who has played every Mass Effect game, spending probably over $200 on the franchise, in addition to over 100 hours of my own time, I should be able to say if I'm not satisfied with any part of the experience.

With that said, expecting a developer to change something as significant as the ending is a fool's errand. It really can't be done without changing the rest of the game either, which just isn't feasible. Not to mention there is zero monetary incentive to do it from Bioware's perspective since you've already purchased the game.

I think the point is to really is to just let Bioware know, "Hey you guys kinda fucked up on this one and possibly screwed whatever potential legacy this franchise could have had", with the hopes that on the next project they work on they'll think a bit harder about what they're doing and if they truly are making the right decisions.

#42 Posted by TheKing (828 posts) -

My decision is: I didn't like the ending or the way they handle the game so I will move on and not buy anymore Bioware games.

#43 Posted by Humanity (9025 posts) -

@Animasta said:

@Brians said:

I think picking your battles is a better thing to do. I also feel it be incredibly insulting to create something and have people demand changes in a week.

they have to have known this would be badly received though..

it's scarier to imagine they are totally oblivious to the changes they made

#44 Posted by atomic_dumpling (2467 posts) -

@Akyho said:

We are however customers, there is a certain amount of customer entitlement.

Everyone is entitled to not buy a product in the first place. Once you shell out your money, you forfeit any right to complain unless it's about bugs and technical problems. If you go ahead and buy a pig in a poke even though you know something is fucked up (because its plastered all over the internet), it is your own damn fault.

Less internet rage, more voting with the wallet.

#45 Posted by NickyDubz (272 posts) -

@HistoryInRust said:

Vote with your dollar.
#46 Posted by DonutFever (3550 posts) -

There's a difference between being upset by gameplay issues or false marketing, and demanding that a company patches the ending to a game.

#47 Posted by Akyho (1594 posts) -

@atomic_dumpling said:

@Akyho said:

We are however customers, there is a certain amount of customer entitlement.

Everyone is entitled to not buy a product in the first place. Once you shell out your money, you forfeit any right to complain unless it's about bugs and technical problems. If you go ahead and buy a pig in a poke even though you know something is fucked up (because its plastered all over the internet), it is your own damn fault.

Less internet rage, more voting with the wallet.

You are right. You cannot make demands or heavy complaints unless and it is even under law, "If the product does not meet standards or as advertised" people can bend that to mean this problem. However that law it to project the customer from being ripped off with "This is a magic potion of eternal life!" when it actually destroyed your liver.

That law isnt for people take control of companies and their products.

Thing is this all really happened before with EA. There was a point between 2005 to 2008 that EA was a bunch of assholes and pulled shit at all corners. Me, my friends and millions of people were not happy. Me and my friends boycotted EA. and apparently enough people that lasted 3 years. And I think alot of people did. Because at the 2008 mark. EA spoke person came out and said "We have made decisions that were not very good for the quality of games, or for our customers we are putting quality first!" and what did we get?

We got Dead space! Mass Effect! and a bunch of other things. Everyone went...well this actualy good...looked around stepped in. Nope no bullshit...ok we are staying. Dont fuck up EA!

So we had a golden era. Then slowly and slowly and slowly. EA returned to its old ways. Such as a few things with Mass effect 2. Then the tipping point was Dragon age 2. At that point we knew EA assholes again. So Endings aside. Ea has been doing some shit things with ME3.

I think right now I can safely say after ME3 I am resuming my boycott. Since Its not the ending. Its the quality of the game and DLC nonsense and ugh. Its almost like Dragon age 2 again.

Yes vote with your wallet.

#48 Edited by DefaultProphet (396 posts) -

@ADAMWD said:

I think it is absolutely insane that some people think that people have no right to speak out their concerns with the game. As someone who has played every Mass Effect game, spending probably over $200 on the franchise, in addition to over 100 hours of my own time, I should be able to say if I'm not satisfied with any part of the experience.

With that said, expecting a developer to change something as significant as the ending is a fool's errand. It really can't be done without changing the rest of the game either, which just isn't feasible. Not to mention there is zero monetary incentive to do it from Bioware's perspective since you've already purchased the game.

I think the point is to really is to just let Bioware know, "Hey you guys kinda fucked up on this one and possibly screwed whatever potential legacy this franchise could have had", with the hopes that on the next project they work on they'll think a bit harder about what they're doing and if they truly are making the right decisions.

Keep the ending exactly the same way but for gods sake give me some kind of epilogue about what happened to my crew, the universe I just united, and the future. Cause damnit there's nothing.

Edit: A series of images with text. Not even spoken would be fine.