Hotter mess in 2017: Battlefront or egregious microtransactions/lootboxes?

I've been having a debate with people on YouTube. Originally, we were trying to figure out whether EA could sweep most disappointing AND hottest mess, since Battlefront and Andromeda seemed like locks to win hottest mess and most disappointing, respectively.

On the other hand, even though Battlefront has drawn international attention, it's drawn attention to the bigger issue of exploitative microtransaction-laden games, which has been just a plague this year. Battlefront is at the head of all this, but its system is specifically what Belgian commissions and US governments are specially targetting.

So, as part of pre GOTY festivities, is Battlefront a bigger mess than the microtransaction/lootbox system underneath it? With Battlefront, the whole thing was such a mess that Disney had to step in to prevent it's IP from being tarnished. Not to mention, the game itself seems to be a complete mess based on Dans review. But between Shadow of War, Destiny, NBA 2k, and this, the money-gauging from full retail priced games seems to have hit a boiling point this year, so much so that Hawaii is taking action.

Hottest Mess is EA. In itself. It's not Visceral or Need for Speed or Battlefront 2 or Mass Effect... it's all and.

I guess the Visceral ordeal will have to settle for 3rd. And to think, a month ago, that seemed like a surefire frontrunner to win this.

Yeah, the Visceral stuff was messy, but they ruined Mass Effect.. Mass Effect man.. It should have been a sure win franchise for EA, but they might have ruined it for a good long time :(

As far as battlefront 2 goes I pretty much agree with Dans review. I do think that Battlefront is a bigger mess, just because it seems that last minute retrofitting of it's horrible loot box system completely ruined the progression component of the multiplayer. I want to say people could still get some enjoyment out of other games progression systems which incurred some sort of loot box debacle like Shadow of War, Destiny, NBA 2k, etc.

I'll still play it though.. Cause it's Star Wars... and I'm an idiot.

Biggest surprise: video games

Hottest mess: video games

Yeah I think it'd be Mass Effect for "most disappointing" (not sure anyone really had high expectations for Battlefront 2), Battlefront 2 for "hottest mess" (can't see how it'd be anything else at this point; that shit blew the fuck up), and lootboxes/scummy microtransaction shenanigans for "please stop."

This. I said this a while ago, but even for a skeptic such as myself, it has become pretty much impossible to defend EA and their practices as a whole. I used to sort of laugh that people claimed EA was killing the developers it bought, but if you research into the situation you can find that they actually do. The decisions they make are never in the interest of the developer, but in the interest of their stock. I have been skeptical of this because EA is a business and it would be naive to assume they wouldn't attempt to drive their stock and earnings as high as possible.

That said, EA is doing that with a certain disregard for anything else. Whereas other publishers also attempt to earn as much as possible, they are still constrained by unwritten rules of not throwing your employees under the bus, being respectful to the talent that works on the game etc.

EA is not. If they make money releasing Titanfall 2 at an inopportune time for that franchise, they will. They do not attempt to make the same amount of money if it takes longer to achieve that, while still giving it its due. If they have a 3-year active dev-cycle for Mass Effect Andromeda and their ambition doesn't pan out two years into that, they will say: 'Too bad, now you only have one year left. Good luck!'.

I was willing to see things from EA's perspective but there are too many examples to name where these things happen with other publishers and it is handled with much more respect. BioShock Infinite was reportedly a shitshow a year before it was supposed to launch and large parts of it were scrapped. I am sure 2K had a serious talk with Ken Levigne about that, but instead of telling him he had to ship it in a year regardless, they allowed him to work on it until his vision was reasonably realized.

EA is not some poor indie publisher that can't afford these things. They are right up there with 2K, if not higher up there in capabilities. The people that eventually call the shots are just driven by the numbers, not any of the passion, respect or love. You'll likely find that in spades at EA, but those people just have nothing to say when push comes to shove.

its more EA Games, I think, than Battlefront II specifically. I personally think the loot box "problem" is overblown and generally boils down to people getting pissed they are gullible enough to shell out real world money to in turn not get items they want. Loot boxes are not gambling. Yes, it sucks that loot boxes are creeping into everything but you can kind of blame streamers for that, in my opinion.

I think EA games as a whole have been the hottest of messes this year. First it was Mass Effect Andromeda and that turned out to be an incredibly underwhelming game with weird bugs and terrible motion capture (to my knowledge they haven't released a patch yet).

Then it was the Visceral closing that was upsetting for Dead Space fans and those who were eagerly awaiting Amy Henning's Star Wars/Uncharted like. There was also NFS Payback with its strange microtransactions for what is apparently a bad game.

Then lastly its all this news surrounding Star Wars Battlefront II with the way EA has handled the progression system where the cards are unbalanced and unlocking a character like Darth Vader initially took 40 hours to unlock. The story mode is also lackluster too. Oh and not only is Hawaii taking action, but Belgium is looking to take an investigation on whether the egregious microtransactions and loot boxes represent gambling and they are seeking to ban loot boxes in all of Europe. This leading to Disney calling out EA on what they are doing to Disney's brand.

I don't think microtransactions in general would go for Hottest Mess because I think hottest mess is for specific events, not general industry practices. It would go good with Please Stop.

Just give the "award" to EA:

• Mass Effect: Andromeda launched with bugs and the infamous character animations.
• Need for Speed has tweaked their in-game progression too...
• Closing down Visceral, and the stories around that closure.
• Battlefront 2's on-going saga.

Individually, they would be called incidents, anomalies which could've have happened to any publisher. Some of them qualify as a nominee for Hottest Mess. But when you take a step back and start looking at the bigger picture, this says something about EA itself and that something is not positive.

As others have said, the hottest mess is EA as a whole. A large, large part of that is Battlefront 2 for sure, but their sports games, Mass Effect and Need for Speed have all been messes. Then you have the continued EA pattern of closing down studios they themselves ruined, and the dubious situation of EA sending Titanfall 2 out to die, and a year later closing down Visceral in order to fund the purchase of Respawn, who had a lower buying price thanks to Titanfall 2 less than stellar performance. It's EA doing all the stuff they've always done but with an aggression and blatant disregard for anything but pure profit that even they hadn't shown before.

EA has consistently had negative press all year, and they're topping the year off by being investigated by gambling commissions for a goddamn Star Wars game for children of all things. I suggest everyone listen to this clip from Jeff's mixlr, he captures the exasperation and confusion of the whole situation well:

As he says, what's going on with EA this year is so ludicrously stupid that it has to be a broad leadership problem. How are they so disconnected from their audience for all this shit to happen? That none of the internal checks and balances could prevent this, none of the news stories and government investigations scared them, and it took a call from Disney, the license holder, to make them realize how bad they messed up?

EA decision making and management has been a disaster, how Montreal & Visceral spent three years developing down a blind alley without EA stepping in or doing anything to course correct sooner is astonishing. EA has had multiple warnings and opportunities regarding Battlefronts 2 loot boxes yet did almost nothing till within hours of release.

A few weeks ago it would have been loot boxes in general, but yeah I agree with others - the hottest mess will just be EA as a whole.

I'll agree with everyone saying it should be EA for hottest mess. So many crazy things going on with them this year. However, I think a point in favor of Battlefront is that it apparently has the CEO of Disney personally making some phone calls to EA, which, with my admittedly limited understanding of business, seems insane.

I completely disagree with you. Loot boxes ARE gambling. It's in the very definition of the word according to google: Take risky action in the hope of a desired result. You're taking a risk by spending money in hopes of getting the item you want.

And you can sort of blame streamers for it, since a lot of them get a lot of views for 'opening 100 loot boxes' videos, but I think it's more corporate greed at fault than any streamer.

@random45: I don’t ever remember people calling baseball cards, magic the gathering cards, or any other random card packs gambling ansd its practically required to buy those to participate in associates games (well maybe not baseball cards).

Also, no, that’s not the definition of gambling. If you’re going off of a “taking a gamble” philisophical approach then sure but making certain jokes on this message board is taking a gamble lol.

I think we as a community can agree its puppy behavior opposed to “Quick get the gubment in here to protect me!”

Maybe it's just my own bias, but I still thing lootboxes as a whole deserve to win this. When you think about a lot of the other hot messes or controversies this year, lootboxes are either the direct cause or aren't too far behind.

That definition is vague enough to apply to 100% of video games (and pretty much everything else). It's the definition used for when someone says something like "pouring the water into the bottle was a gamble," which is obviously not at all like playing slots.

You're not risking money the same way with lootboxes as you are when you put down cash on roulette. There's no (official) way to gain money from the outcome. You're paying for access to a range of products (i.e. the lootbox), and which particular product you get is random (the items in the lootbox).

It's not gambling in the same sense of casino gambling (which is government regulated) when you use gumball machine (which afaik isn't government regulated like casino gambling), or when you buy, I dunno, the blind house special at a restaurant.

They did give the IP to a studio that had only multiplayer DLC under it's belt. Surely they must have expected this. There's just no way you give Mass Effect to newbies and expect industry veterans results.

At any rate, I think there's an overall theme in play here : EA is trying to see how far it can push the envelope as far as revenue is concerned. EA figured something out in the last few years : We, as gamers, are all over-hyping fools willing to pay for any and everything that's got a beloved brand attached to it.

I guess they did not expect the backlash that ensued. I'm guessing they are going to take pause and reconsider. I remember EA doing fine for a few years after they threw Riccitiello under the bus. They re-evaluated their business model and made corrections and ultimately concessions. Origin and EA access are a fruit of those actions.

Personally, I have nothing against them, I just wish they were transparent. I have much more respect for a person that can tell me, to my face, that they believe I am an idiot. Just go ahead and admit those micro transactions exist only to generate extra cash.

Don't tell me you want me to feel a legitimate feeling of ''progression''...

This has not been EA's year.

Something I haven't seen mentioned is their E3 press conference. Remember that youtuber that forgot his lines and stared at the camera for a full minute with a blank expression? Remember those two soccer guys who did a live action version of their radio show to a dead silent crowd?

The important part of Battlefront is still good, its just hidden under a progression system made of the overall issue of lootboxes. Sure the campaign sucks, you could say that about every Dice shooter outside of Bad Company, but the MP gameplay is good, if you can get gear. If they had the BF4 progression system I think that game would review very differently. This seems like the same issue. The only reason BF is bad in a meaningful way for most fans of the series and genre is that the progression sucks, and it sucks because it is microtransactions and blind loot boxes. Battlefront is just the most egregious example of that, where it completely changes the mechanics of their progression system to be bad.

I wish the just kept to the Battlefield structure, both for monetization and progression. I dont mind premium if the game is good because you more than double your content with maps and vehicles and weapons and gear added with each expansion, and I don't mind packs to just skip to unlock the various gear that is different but mostly balanced vs the absolute basics. If they got rid of cards that enhanced things and just focused on gear and capabilities it would probably be a pretty great game with a forgetable campaign, like the last 3 Battlefield games.

It's going to go to EA in general. Battlefront 2 being more recent shouldn't take away from the gigantic mess Mass Effect Andromeda was though.

.

It's been a long time coming.