Musing About Video Game Allies and Capitalism

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MisterBananaFoam

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Edited By MisterBananaFoam
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At this point, I am kind of getting a bit sick of talking about Donkey Kong 64, what with the long-winded retrospective I did and all that, but replaying the game to get some footage made me notice a peculiar issue that is shared between DK64 AND its Country predecessors. It doesn't have much to do with the general gameplay or anything, it's more like a conceptual fault, one that lacks a bit of common sense in the grand scheme of things, and sure, Donkey Kong isn't exactly a series known to adhere to common sense or anything, but I have seen this trope prop up in many games that I've played throughout my lifetime.

One of the myriad of collectable types you encounter in Donkey Kong 64 are coins, colored specific to each playable Kong. These coins are used to purchase upgrades in the form of physical abilities, weaponry, and instruments that allow you to progress through the game. Sounds simple enough, something a lot of kids don't necessarily mind, but when you think about it, who exactly is selling you all of these upgrades?

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Donkey Kong's relatives. The characters that are probably just as affected by K. Rool's constant raiding of Donkey Kong's banana hoards and, well, I dunno, the gigantic frickin' laser he has pointed at the island they all live on. Sure, it might be justified in Cranky's case because he's crotchety and rude, but neither Candy nor Funky are on particularly bad terms with any of the Kongs, yet all three unapologetically demand tribute for their services despite being related to the main characters. It was even worse in the Country games with Cranky because he charged you for hints, and the sweet old Wrinkly Kong would make you cough up some coin to access the save feature if you did it enough times. As a gameplay mechanic, these all make sense for balance purposes, but in a logical sense, not so much.

I get it, it's a goofy platformer made by Rare. Gameplay and motive segregation, I understand that. But when I think about it, this is more common of a logical fallacy in gaming than at first glance. Banjo-Kazooie did something similar with Mumbo Jumbo, and while he technically wasn't related to the titular duo, he still cares enough to aid them only if he gets enough tokens out of the deal. Non-platformer examples, look at Paper Mario and some of the Mario and Luigi games. Who's running the shops that sell you items and power-ups and badges? More often than not, it's your allies, like Toads and friendly Koopas and stuff like that. Apparently the threat of time-space anomalies and imminent destruction/domination of the world isn't enough to keep the inhabitants of the Mushroom Kingdom from nickel and diming you, the hero of the kingdom.

Less cartoon-y RPGs like Skyrim and Xenoblade also have this problem. "You're the only one who can defeat the dragons running rampant across the kingdom and burning down entire settlements? You can wield the ancient, powerful, centuries-old sword that gives you foresight into future events and is your race's - and several other races' - last hope for survival against a ruthless robotic armada? Yeah, yeah, sure, whatever, I could care less, I got a business to run. A business that might not exist if it weren't for your actions, sure, but c'mon, money talks, friend."

It's a minor thing to get up-in-arms about, I guess, but it kind of takes the immersion away sometimes. I don't expect to be handed the best gear at the very start or anything like that just for being the protagonist, but I think this is probably why I appreciate games with a crafting-based or loot-based progression system as opposed to games where you have to go on a shopping spree to save the world.

Can anyone else think of any examples of this that stand out besides the ones I mentioned?

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SpaceInsomniac

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I've always loved this particular bit of ludonarrative dissonance.

Let me get this straight. I'm the chosen one. I'm the only person in the world who can save the world. You're a shopkeeper. You admit yourself that you and everyone else will die if I fail in this final upcoming battle. I'm literally your only hope for survival. Without my success, you and your family will certainly die. I'm currently 120 gold short of being able to afford the best weapon in your store--a weapon I need TO SAVE THE WORLD--and you won't let me have it for 4880 gold, will you?

Oh, video games.

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Eurobum

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#2  Edited By Eurobum

@misterbananafoam: The dissonance really is between regular folks playing some kind of chosen hero. Video games try to teach us the tit for tat, and that is a great lesson especially for people who (wrongfully) believe themselves to be an exception.

In reality success leads to delusions of grandeur, people actually believe that they are better, deserving of free perks and not bound to return favors. In a game this is true in a sense not only are you playing the chosen hero, but you are very different than the average AI-Idiot-NPC, who hammers the same piece of metal on an anvil all day every day.

Being a Player Character is a lot like being a celebrity in RL, you are special but you still want for NPCs to like you and you depend on the NPCs good standing. Also like in the real world people just aren't aware of all those End-of-the-World scenarios you have to avert. Finally you have to consider that not all praise and complements, you receive from NPCs are genuine, just like a celebrity.

Even exceptional people want to receive things on merit (pay hard earned coin) and a well mannered person would try to avoid being indebted to anyone, especially if you're someone people want a piece of.

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bigsocrates

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I often assume that some services are being delivered at "cost." For example maybe Mumbo NEEDS the tokens to be able to do the magic, or Funky needs to buy fuel or whatever. Just because they're accepting money doesn't mean they're profiting.

In RPGs I often think of it as if the shopkeepers and the like don't actually believe that you're the chosen one. It's frequently clear that the populace doesn't fully believe in you because many people try to get in your way or stop you. Maybe the shopkeeper isn't going to send guards after you like a scheming lord, but he isn't necessarily going to give you stuff for free just because your companions think you're the chosen one. He probably sees 10 "chosen ones" a week!

That doesn't necessarily apply in something like Zelda: Breath of the Wild, where pretty much everyone acknowledges Link as the best chance to fight Calamity Ganon. Even if some shopkeepers don't believe in him you'd think other people would pool some cash to buy him some damn arrows!

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Fredchuckdave

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Shops are a good gameplay element.

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Justin258

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As far as I'm concerned, it's fine if the shopkeepers and general public are unaware of exactly who they're selling to and how important they are to the fate of the world or whatever. Like in Breath of the Wild - there's no reason for random shopkeepers to believe that you're actually Link, a legendary hero from a century ago who is widely thought to be dead. I've been playing FFXII on PS4 and, again, all of those characters have good reason to act normal and not really discuss their identities much, so it makes sense that those shopkeepers wouldn't give discounts or anything.

Speaking of FFXII and shops, what is with games that have to find a reason to put a shop inside of a dungeon or something? I've come across two different merchants inside of a dungeon for some reason. The justification for the second one wasn't bad - some traveling Moogle merchants were captured by the Empire and placed in a hold (although you'd think they would just give you some stuff for free as thanks - actually, why do they still have stuff to sell you, shouldn't it all have been confiscated?) - but the justification for the first one wasn't so great. Why would anyone travel through such a hostile environment to sell stuff to some prisoners or whatever?

Anyway, video game shops are weird.

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bigsocrates

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. Like in Breath of the Wild - there's no reason for random shopkeepers to believe that you're actually Link, a legendary hero from a century ago who is widely thought to be dead.

I disagree with this. Basically all the leaders of the various cities accept you as Link, at least after awhile. Impa certainly does. And they also see you stop the divine beasts and restore the champions. There's no way the shopkeepers are all like "I dunno man, even after all that he's probably still just a guy. I'm going to charge him the FULL 12 rupees for this milk." Heck in the lost woods the koroks specifically set up a shop IN CASE YOU EVER COME BY.

I don't think that the shopkeepers in that game are confused as to your identity. On the other hand it's a ravaged world where people are barely getting by so maybe even if they want to help out they can't afford to give you free arrows or whatever. It seems like there's not a lot of stuff to spare.

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Justin258

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#7  Edited By Justin258

@bigsocrates said:
@justin258 said:

. Like in Breath of the Wild - there's no reason for random shopkeepers to believe that you're actually Link, a legendary hero from a century ago who is widely thought to be dead.

I disagree with this. Basically all the leaders of the various cities accept you as Link, at least after awhile. Impa certainly does. And they also see you stop the divine beasts and restore the champions. There's no way the shopkeepers are all like "I dunno man, even after all that he's probably still just a guy. I'm going to charge him the FULL 12 rupees for this milk." Heck in the lost woods the koroks specifically set up a shop IN CASE YOU EVER COME BY.

I don't think that the shopkeepers in that game are confused as to your identity. On the other hand it's a ravaged world where people are barely getting by so maybe even if they want to help out they can't afford to give you free arrows or whatever. It seems like there's not a lot of stuff to spare.

Eh, all right. I played BotW for two weeks after it came out, got 70 hours out of it. It usually takes me months to get that much out of a game but in BotW I just played and then suddenly figured I'd had enough and finished it and haven't actually thought about it all that much since.

My FFXII example still works, though!

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mgalchemist

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Watching Steal My Sunshine recently has reminded me how screwed up it is that the Tanuki guys sell shine sprites (the energy source for Isle Delfino?? The things they arrested Mario for apparently taking away???) for blue coins. How are those two not arrested for like, treason?

Another pretty bad example is Tingle from the Wind Waker. He knows exactly what you need those charts for and why, but he's more than happy to charge a kid upwards of 3000 rupees before he can find a legendary artifact to save the world.

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MisterBananaFoam

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Shops are a good gameplay element.

Oh, I'm not trying to argue that shops aren't a good gameplay element. I've never had a problem with that. I'm just saying in the context of the urgency of certain situations in some games, it seems really shitty that people who want the world/hometown/galaxy/whatever saved as much as you do put making a quick buck as a higher priority.

I think another example that sticks out like a sore thumb to me is Killing Floor's trader. Why doesn't the paramilitary group just equip their strike teams with the best weapons instead of just sending them into hellspawn nests with nothing but a dinky pistol? I guess there's a couple explanations - maybe it's a sick and twisted way for them to 'prove' them that they're capable of handling the threat at any cost, or maybe they're in short supply and the trader is divvying the gear evenly so it isn't wasted, but... I don't know, these just seem kind of flimsy. I get that those games aren't really meant to be taken seriously either, but it's still funny to me.

In RPGs I often think of it as if the shopkeepers and the like don't actually believe that you're the chosen one. It's frequently clear that the populace doesn't fully believe in you because many people try to get in your way or stop you. Maybe the shopkeeper isn't going to send guards after you like a scheming lord, but he isn't necessarily going to give you stuff for free just because your companions think you're the chosen one. He probably sees 10 "chosen ones" a week!

That doesn't necessarily apply in something like Zelda: Breath of the Wild, where pretty much everyone acknowledges Link as the best chance to fight Calamity Ganon. Even if some shopkeepers don't believe in him you'd think other people would pool some cash to buy him some damn arrows!

I suppose so, but again, I think it really depends on the context of the story. Maybe Skyrim is a little more lax in this regard, but like you mentioned, the commonfolk pretty much witness firsthand Link's conquering of the divine beasts, and with my Xenoblade example, practically everyone knows of Shulk's ability to wield and contain the powers of the Monado - maybe not to the degree of previous owners right away, but it's still the sword that's slept for hundreds of years - and I suppose not every NPC has heard from word of mouth about his deeds, but it's funny to me how NPCs that are definitively allied with you still charge you, such as the soldiers in Dickson's battalion that sell you the equipment that you need in order to damage Mechon, while in one of the Mechon's largest strongholds.

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BoccKob

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I don't get why a game doesn't just go, "oh you're the Chosen One?! Here, have some free stuff! :D" Then when you go back later they start thinking you're trying to scam them and charge you full price. Maybe even have a little side quest or something so if you prove you're the real deal, the legendary blacksmith lets you have their finest work for free. The most games do is say, "ehh, I gotta make a living too!" And that's just stupid.

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This is actually something that bothers me more the goofier the game gets. When it's something relatively serious like Skyrim or Xenoblade I don't have trouble believing that the shopkeeper doesn't know that I'm actually a legendary hero of prophecy. To, say, a merchant in Nopon Village I'm some weirdo with a strange sword, and I don't really have any proof that I'm the world's best hope, any shmuck could wander in and start claiming to have the real deal Monado and be able to see the future to try and get a discount. Even when there's some proof I could provide, like say a dragon shout in Skyrim, people are very good at rationalizing why it shouldn't be THEM that takes the bullet and gives away a full set of Daedric armor for free. I see this situation going very similarly in real life. In stuff like Mario RPGs though... We're the Mario brothers! Come on, you know we'll use this to save the Mushroom Kingdom for the eighteen millionth time, and money obviously has little to no value in this world. The goofiness makes me more willing to believe people would recognize and go out of their way to help the heroes.

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MikeLemmer

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I think Castlevania 64 (for all its other flaws) handled this rather well: the shopkeeper in Dracula's Castle is a devil. Of course he doesn't care that you're trying to save the world. In fact, if you spend more than 30,000 gold, he tries to steal your soul.

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Dan_CiTi

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@justin258 said:

. Like in Breath of the Wild - there's no reason for random shopkeepers to believe that you're actually Link, a legendary hero from a century ago who is widely thought to be dead.

I disagree with this. Basically all the leaders of the various cities accept you as Link, at least after awhile. Impa certainly does. And they also see you stop the divine beasts and restore the champions. There's no way the shopkeepers are all like "I dunno man, even after all that he's probably still just a guy. I'm going to charge him the FULL 12 rupees for this milk." Heck in the lost woods the koroks specifically set up a shop IN CASE YOU EVER COME BY.

I don't think that the shopkeepers in that game are confused as to your identity. On the other hand it's a ravaged world where people are barely getting by so maybe even if they want to help out they can't afford to give you free arrows or whatever. It seems like there's not a lot of stuff to spare.

I can't believe no one here has mentioned the side quest in BotW where someone makes you prove you're Link (I think that is what it is) by showing them the Master Sword and then they give you some lil reward. I thought that was a very minor, but cute way of subverting the "obviously Im the destined hero look at me everyone knows that" trope.