#1 Posted by Yokelbloke (14 posts) -

This comment in the latest Bombcast got me thinking. Games sometimes try and make us do something disturbing or shocking in order to evoke a particular emotion. In this case revulsion and racism, I guess? Anyway, I can only think of a couple of examples of 'Press X to do something EXTREME!'. The mass grave scene in Homefront, hiding in the pile of bodies in the fountain in Call of Duty, burning civilians with white phosphorous in Spec Ops etc. Surely this is a more prevalent thing? Surely there are a tonne more examples of this? Anyone else come up with anything specific?

#2 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

Generally those moments in Black Ops when you get so close to a soldier you can see the fear in their eyes as you slash their goddamn throat open. And then the game yells "WAR IS AWESOME, YEA!!!".

#3 Posted by StarvingGamer (8128 posts) -

Dunno, most of Heavy Rain?

#4 Posted by JoeyRavn (4962 posts) -

@Yokelbloke said:

Anyway, I can only think of a couple of examples of 'Press X to do something EXTREME!'.

I don't know, duder. I think Jason is a pretty EXTREME guy. He's always doing crazy stuff like getting lost or stopping cars with his face.

#5 Posted by Humanity (9028 posts) -

@Video_Game_King said:

Generally those moments in Black Ops when you get so close to a soldier you can see the fear in their eyes as you slash their goddamn throat open. And then the game yells "WAR IS AWESOME, YEA!!!".

You say that as if 90% of video games released today didn't glorify violence in one form or another.

#6 Posted by Brodehouse (9793 posts) -

I didn't mind the mass grave part as much as the crew appeared to. If that was in Half-Life 2 it would be genius, but it's in Homefront so it's awful.

That's not a defense of Homefront, Homefront is awful. But I don't think that part crossed a line or something.

On topic, God of War tried to one-up itself with every execution. When you rip Helios' head off with your bare hands. When you thumb out Poseidon's eyes. When you cut off Hermes' legs. When you crush that girl in the wheelwell because she happened to be convenient.

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#7 Posted by mscupcakes (612 posts) -

@StarvingGamer: Press X to JASON!

#8 Posted by Nottle (1912 posts) -

@StarvingGamer: I'd say that Heavy Rain tried to treat things with a more consistent tone and weight. It isn't about how EXTREME Ethan is, rather its about controlling at all the horrible things Ethan will have to do to save his son.

#9 Posted by LikeaSsur (1509 posts) -

In Xenosaga's case, you press X to launch into a 37 minute cutscene. That's pretty extreme.

#10 Posted by mosespippy (4106 posts) -

The only EXTREME game I know is Ninety Nine Nights 2.

#11 Posted by Notfontain (8 posts) -

Personally I find it hard to be shocked and disgusted by what I'm doing if there's a prompt telling me to do it. For me to get shocked it takes a lot I'll admit but games need to learn to handle it better. For example the more I look back on it Fallout 3 and New Vegas might be some of the most shocking games I've played in a while. Everything you're doing in the moment is based on survival, everywhere you go is almost by accident, every choice you make shapes you as a person in this world. I was never told to do anything there was no X prompt telling me to kill everyone I meet I chose to, and that's shocking that deep down in me is something much worse than any X prompt telling me hide in bodies.

#12 Posted by Willza92 (259 posts) -

The SAW games? I have personally never played them but the entire point of that franchise is to see some EXTREME f'd up s. In the case of the games, use the analogue stick to FUCK UP YOUR EYE DAWG.

#13 Posted by The_Nubster (2090 posts) -

@Brodehouse said:

I didn't mind the mass grave part as much as the crew appeared to. If that was in Half-Life 2 it would be genius, but it's in Homefront so it's awful. That's not a defense of Homefront, Homefront is awful. But I don't think that part crossed a line or something. On topic, God of War tried to one-up itself with every execution. When you rip Helios' head off with your bare hands. When you thumb out Poseidon's eyes. When you cut off Hermes' legs. When you crush that girl in the wheelwell because she happened to be convenient.

I think the difference is that God of War does it knowing that it's a stupid action game aimed at angsty teenagers who love tits and swords, whereas Homefront wants to be shocking. Homefront, however, doesn't earn that right; it opens up with mass executions and a tour of the police state. "And if you look to your left, you'll see women and children being raped!" it just shoves everything in to your face and goes, "SEE? SEE? PRETTY SHITTY WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE, RIGHT? AREN'T YOU ANGRY ABOUT IT!"

Other people have brought up Heavy Rain, which spent the better part of ten hours cementing that fact that all of these characters are normal people put in extraordinary situations, and doesn't begin to layer on anything insane until the final stretch of the game.

And what's your point about Half-Life 2? Jeff doesn't hide the fact that he has always had a certain distaste for Half-Life 2, Ryan said he thinks the pacing is shitty and the story isn't anything great, and the other dudes don't have much to say in defense to it. None of the main crew are particularly attached to HL2.

#14 Posted by pyromagnestir (4288 posts) -

Is pulling right trigger to shoot people not pretty extreme? Hiding in a pile of bodies sounds tame by comparison, to me at least.

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#15 Posted by Hailinel (24295 posts) -

I don't really see the issue with a game allowing the player to use corpses as cover. I mean, any sane person, given the choice, would rather do something else given how horrible an experience that would be. But if you're trying to avoid getting killed and hiding in a pile of corpses is your best best, then yeah, I can understand doing that.

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#16 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7074 posts) -
@Hailinel

I don't really see the issue with a game allowing the player to use corpses as cover. I mean, any sane person, given the choice, would rather do something else given how horrible an experience that would be. But if you're trying to avoid getting killed and hiding in a pile of corpses is your best best, then yeah, I can understand doing that.

It was just handled REALLY poorly in Homefront. Everything about the plot is, actually.
#17 Posted by mlarrabee (2916 posts) -

I think the Crew's problem with the scene was that Homefront hadn't earned that gravitas prior to that scene, and so what was intended as an extremely serious and emotional moment was absorbed as a cheap, immature prod.

I haven't played the game, but I don't think the developers were trying to convey racism.

#18 Edited by Yokelbloke (14 posts) -

@mlarrabee said:

I haven't played the game, but I don't think the developers were trying to convey racism.

Yeah, sorry. Should have been clearer. I meant hatred for the Korean soldiers who are creating the mass graves.

And yes, not sure why I didn't think of the self mutilation scenes in Heavy Rain. And the Jason searching scenes.

#19 Posted by Brodehouse (9793 posts) -
@The_Nubster ? Half-Life 2 comment has nothing to do with Giant Bomb crew's opinion. I'm just saying that I don't think the mass grave hiding scene was tonally wrong. If I had to think about the good things about Homefront, I would probably include that as one. It was the one that fit the 'wolverines' guerilla tactics stuff, the one moment where you seemed like you were fighting for survival instead of defending a remote control tank.

I agree that the intro lays it on pretty strong; at the same time, I'm sure if you saw the Rape of Nanking laid out abuse by abuse, you'd think it was farcical and made up. The problem with Homefront on explicitly that level is that you haven't built any attachment or anything to characters or the city you're in, so it seems like a cartoony slideshow instead of involving you.

So I'm building the world and doc for a dystopian future game, in which your character is basically a prole living in the slums outside of the high-class cities. A big thing I want is an attachment to your specific neighborhood, your neighbors sitting on their stoops because what else is there to do, your friend's old father wandering around the streets, a guy with a guitar playing acoustic blues in front of a case with no tips, the only car a futuristic Public Safety car that everyone freezes when it passes by, that sort of thing. A big thing is making that place real (so I can obviously take it away). Homefront starts with that neighborhood being executed horribly, before you know their names. The smartest AC2 did was give you 90 minutes to just be Ezio Auditore, running rooftops with your brother, defending your sister's honor, being lectured by your mother. If that game starts with you seeing the execution, it's meaningless.
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#20 Posted by triviaman09 (799 posts) -

@pyromagnestir said:

Is pulling right trigger to shoot people not pretty extreme? Hiding in a pile of bodies sounds tame by comparison, to me at least.

This

#21 Posted by phrali (646 posts) -

this is not some new thing. Bionic commando. Mortal kombat.

#22 Posted by Dagbiker (6957 posts) -

@Yokelbloke:

Spoilers dude.

#23 Posted by ze_ro (181 posts) -

@Dagbiker said:

@Yokelbloke:

Spoilers dude.

Yeah was about to say this, gladly I just finished Spec Ops before coming here.

#24 Posted by c0l0nelp0c0rn1 (1807 posts) -

I've got a name for the concept page.

Shock and awww it's just a quick time event....

#26 Edited by Milkman (16621 posts) -

I don't think Spec Ops is an example of this at all.

#27 Posted by MikkaQ (10281 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

I don't really see the issue with a game allowing the player to use corpses as cover. I mean, any sane person, given the choice, would rather do something else given how horrible an experience that would be. But if you're trying to avoid getting killed and hiding in a pile of corpses is your best best, then yeah, I can understand doing that.

I don't think it was about the action itself, especially since it's basically "Hit X to activate scripted cutscene where you hide under corpses" more than they tried and failed to make it meaningful and shocking (perhaps... EXTREME) by having you "interact" with it. Even though you just hit X then sit there for a couple kinda tense minutes, then the level ends. Came off as insulting the intelligence of the player more than anything.

But whatever, that's not even close to Homefront's biggest crime of being a bad game.

#28 Posted by George_Hukas (1317 posts) -

Have you guys ever played any online games? People hump dead bodies and stuff.

#29 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -

@George_Hukas said:

Have you guys ever played any online games? People hump dead bodies and stuff.

lol

#30 Posted by dedrek (13 posts) -

@Notfontain said:

Personally I find it hard to be shocked and disgusted by what I'm doing if there's a prompt telling me to do it. For me to get shocked it takes a lot I'll admit but games need to learn to handle it better. For example the more I look back on it Fallout 3 and New Vegas might be some of the most shocking games I've played in a while. Everything you're doing in the moment is based on survival, everywhere you go is almost by accident, every choice you make shapes you as a person in this world. I was never told to do anything there was no X prompt telling me to kill everyone I meet I chose to, and that's shocking that deep down in me is something much worse than any X prompt telling me hide in bodies.

This. Doing something you have no choice in doing or not isn't shocking because I didn't make the conscious decision to do it. If we've been trained to do anything in the last several years by recent games it's when you're in trouble and a button prompt comes up on screen, you better fucking press that shit or something bad is going to happen.

I suppose this also, however, brings up the argument that, to the character (who is really doing all the thinking for the player in these situations) saw that it was the only real choice he had, and by extension, the only choice the player has. In this way there is, I think, some form of realism in sort of acting on instinct, however unrewarding it is to the player to simply press a button to not die.

#31 Edited by DivineShadow777 (106 posts) -
#32 Edited by Questionable (619 posts) -

Press X to shower!

[spoiler] Finally found the right sample, you got no idea how much this had me raging having avoided all spoilers about the game beforehand

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3knYvZxH2w&feature=plcp [/spoiler]

#33 Posted by Sackmanjones (4682 posts) -

You should put a spoiler thing up duder