Realism and violence in video games?

I was having a conversation with a friend earlier today regarding the prominence and extent of violence in video games. We came to the consensus that there are some games that 'need' to be mature in order to realistically convey the subject matter they are projecting. Clearly there are some games that have gratuitous levels of violence for artistic or comic effect, and therefore not at all to enhance the realism of the experience without detracting from the experience

However, does anyone agree (or disagree) that there are some games that just need to be mature, and need to have the violence to be realistic? Are there any games that you felt have been limited due to their lack of violence ?

(Conversely there are some games which their levels of violence have actually detracted from the experience, and if you have any thoughts regarding this please share.)

Sam

violence does not represent maturity. Brown shooter 4 is realistic like michael bay movies are realistic. Real world violence is ugly and horrible and unpleasant and there is no respawning or checkpointing. Violence in games is for horror movie shock value or ooh pretty particle effects on that explosion. If the violence does not make you uncomfortable and never want to play the game again, it is not realistic or mature

Any game with a lose state needs is because of a conflict. In western media, violence is the easiest and cheapest source of conflict.

The level of violence in many games is farcical, just do a simple count in most action adventure games or FPS and you will see the protagonist kill literally hundreds if not thousands of enemies. That's simply not realistic in anyway, however for pacing most gamers will accept the impossible level of killing.

Have there been games that were weakened from a lack of violence? Or that need violence to be realistic? Maybe, but not to many, the biggest argument would be that a FPS needs violence because the gameplay is about shooting people, but the story or conflict could also be told in a way that didn't need direct player controlled violence.

It's just the market for first person negotiation games is a bit less than thriving.

Having seen enough wartime documentaries/ images shared by a CIA bomb tech, I always find it weird when a game focusing on warfare doesn't have gore on explosions. I'm not looking for it because "fuck yeah, I fucked that shit up!" and more just "wait, why is his body unscathed by the grenade that went off on his foot?"

But then, I have a strong stomach for violent imagery.

I think some games certainly need to be violent to portray the themes they have, and violence can be effective. When violence makes you uncomfortable, I think that's a really strong way to enforce certain themes, often the best or even only ways.

I think games like Mad World are a bit pointless but I guess I can see the appeal. Other than that though, violence has never taken away from the experience for me. Violence is a part of life. Sure, I'm going into the military, and I have particular feelings about conflict in the world, but I don't think violence should be as censored as it is. When done right, showing how horrifying violence is is often the best way to reinforce a distaste for violence. Seeing what happens when you throw a grenade into a ditch full of insurgents is a great way to understand how destructive weapons.

For me, it detracts from the experience when, in a game like Call of Duty, which is trying to portray some semblance of reality (at least using existing units and branches of military and conflicts that resonate with today's battlefields), when the extent of the violence is some blood that sprays out. That's not going to desensitize anyone to violence, it's just going to fool them into thinking a little sliver of metal isn't an incredibly destructive thing. It's not like looking at blood fountains in CoD is the same as seeing some guy who was just shot through his jaw and now has said jaw hanging in pieces from his face. Not saying I think all games should have that kind of gore, but something that actually went into the true horrors of war would be interesting. I think if you're going to go mature, you should go all the way with it, or find a good reason not to. I don't mind Halo's lack of gore, mostly (energy sword is a little iffy, though), because it's so stylized.

@phrali said:

violence does not represent maturity. Brown shooter 4 is realistic like michael bay movies are realistic. Real world violence is ugly and horrible and unpleasant and there is no respawning or checkpointing. Violence in games is for horror movie shock value or ooh pretty particle effects on that explosion. If the violence does not make you uncomfortable and never want to play the game again, it is not realistic or mature

QFT

Any game aiming for realism that features a lot of gun violence certainly feels weird to me when it is lacking in this area. Crysis, Call of Duty, Battlefield. Come to think of it all the big popular military shooters seem to be lacking in the gore department.

I guess if they weren't then they couldn't sell them to kids lol.

Any game aiming for realism that features a lot of gun violence certainly feels weird to me when it is lacking in this area. Crysis, Call of Duty, Battlefield. Come to think of it all the big popular military shooters seem to be lacking in the gore department.

@phrali said:

violence does not represent maturity. Brown shooter 4 is realistic like michael bay movies are realistic. Real world violence is ugly and horrible and unpleasant and there is no respawning or checkpointing. Violence in games is for horror movie shock value or ooh pretty particle effects on that explosion. If the violence does not make you uncomfortable and never want to play the game again, it is not realistic or mature

I agree with you that violence doesn't represent maturity, but I don't think the requisite response to realistic/mature violence is to be uncomfortable, especially if you've been on the internet for any serious amount of time. I mean, there are enough snuff films floating around that it's not exactly hard to become completely desensitized to seeing people kill themselves or others (at least on film; pretty sure I couldn't stomach the sight of something like that in real life).

I'd love to see a game with violence so realistic its intent was to make one uncomfortable, though. Game should strive to evoke emotions in their players, and disgust is as much an emotion as any other. No game's come close to evoking that kind of emotional response, unfortunately; I'm sure some would argue for "No Russian" but the violence there wasn't realistic or mature.

I feel that games like COD (especially in the most recent iterations) almost celebrate warfare , and to some extent glorify it. I also feel it the multiplayer demeans real life warfare to some extent, as it takes an act that destroys individuals physically and mentally in real life, and turns it into a games of points and rewards.

(This is my point of view)

@phrali said:

violence does not represent maturity. Brown shooter 4 is realistic like michael bay movies are realistic. Real world violence is ugly and horrible and unpleasant and there is no respawning or checkpointing. Violence in games is for horror movie shock value or ooh pretty particle effects on that explosion. If the violence does not make you uncomfortable and never want to play the game again, it is not realistic or mature

I think also the fact that many of the so called "Brown Shooters" revolve around the player being an unkillable death machine that kills scores of enemies within a very shallow context. Part of what makes violence poignant or "realistic," objectively speaking, is having a human connection to the victim in some way. The enemy RPG soldier #2 that gets killed several times through out the game does not lend itself to the human element very well.

Case in point, I remember the first time I played through Jagged Alliance 2, Scope Sterling's head was violently ruptured by a completely random bullet after having been a part of the team for a long time. My jaw literally dropped open, and it was probably the only time I felt an iota of "shock" while playing a video game, simply because she had been humanized and relied on throughout the game.

op - i dont know why on earth you would want to play a game with violence so realistic as to elicit disgust. I have never seen a person irl get shot or blown up but i have seen a girl run over by a truck. It is NOT like the movies it is not in slow motion it is a loud thump, it is twisted limbs and begging for you to help her and knowing there is nothing you can do. IT MAKES YOU FEEL SICK. Being uncomfortable IS the requisite response to real violence unless there is something seriously wrong with you

Violence can be mature but what makes it significant is how a game applies the delivery of violence. After that, it's up to the person making their mind which can vary.

@Unilad said:

I feel that games like COD (especially in the most recent iterations) almost celebrate warfare , and to some extent glorify it. I also feel it the multiplayer demeans real life warfare to some extent, as it takes an act that destroys individuals physically and mentally in real life, and turns it into a games of points and rewards.

(This is my point of view)

You just described a huge part of human nature. It's healthy to get those urges out and pretty much everyone has their ways of doing it. Even chess can be a method for expressing that primal part of human nature. And I don't think it demeans real life warfare at all. It's a game, comparing it to real combat would be silly. It can try to approach parts of real combat, but it should never be considered a parallel thing. If you let it be separate, I don't think it does anything demean warfare.

And I don't think they celebrate or glorify it, but there is certainly a romancification occurring. Glorify is a word used too often to describe CoD's approach to warfare.

No, a video game doesn't need to be mature in regards to realism and violence. Just like movies and books don't need to be mature when it comes to those themes.

BraveToaster

Not really ready to say anything, but I just finished Spec Ops: The Line. I'm pretty sure that game needed gratuitous violence to work, but the bigger question is if they should have made it all...