Tips for a good RPG?

I'm really in the mood for a good RPG. Mostly focused on lots of customization, ability trees and whatnot. A little less so on story and choice making, though I appreciate if that stuff is in there, I really want the RPG gameplay systems most of all.

As an example, I wanted to play The Secret World since that is so awesome to develop your character, but it's very boring to actually play if you're alone (if anyone wants to play together let me know). I started playing Kingdoms of Amalur again and that game is near-perfect for what I want right now. I don't listen to any dialogue, but the combat is pretty good and there is a good amount of abilities and whatnot. The game is a bit old though, even though it should be a perfect fit now, it's starting to wear on me.

Can anyone recommend me a strong RPG that is heavy on customization and character (gameplay) development? I can play on anything except Wii/U, but would prefer PC.

Platforms?

Divinity: Original Sin is fantastic and lets you make some interesting hybrid classes. Might be a little heavy on story, and it is agonizingly slow.

Any of the Dark Souls games sound like they would be right up your alley. The story is as out of the way as it could get, and character build options are huge. I think Dark Souls II probably has the widest range of builds, though I haven't had enough time to dig into Dark Souls III to really say that definitively.

Dragon's Dogma comes to mind. It's not entirely dissimilar to Amalur. Skills for days and you can change classes on a dime if you get tired of however you're fighting. You can almost completely ignore the story if you want, but it has some pretty interesting moments and goes places you might not expect. It just got a PC re-release too.

Dragon's Dogma is a rewarding game for mechanics and character development.

Mount and Blade: Warband is different, but I have to recommend it as a big fan of the series. You aren't going to get crazy abilities, but it is fun building yourself up in that game through its RPG mechanics. The combat is really fun and you can really play it for a long time if you get into it since it's a simulation. Plus mods.

I really enjoy D:OS combat (basically fantasy X-COM) but yeah it's really slow paced because encounters take a long time. There are cool fun mechanics for sure though. Everything else outside the combat in that game is weak I think but you can definitely just skip through the dialogue if you want.

You might want to check out Path of Exile, a free ARPG with a pretty interesting upgrade system.

Not entirely sure about The Witcher games, but I just now picked up all three for ~30000 Korean won ($25 USD.) Where will I find the time?!? Curse you Steam sale!!

@spoonman671:Unfortunately I've played all Dark Souls games grey, and after finishing III I'm slightly burned on that concept right now. As for Divinity, I don't think it's for me. Precisely because it seemed a little too slow paced for my liking.

@sinusoidal: Yeah, I was eyeing Dragon's Dogma, but this is probably a little nitpicky, it feels a bit too JRPG to me. Also not a tremendous fan of the setting and style thereof. I think Dark Souls nails that aesthetic, but Dragon's Dogma kind of doesn't.

@artisanbreads: I have been eyeing Path of Exile, but I have Diablo. If I want to go that route, I'd probably go Diablo.

I might be... a bit nitpicky right now.

@zevvion: I had the same view of Dragons Dogma before I jumped in, at face value it seems dumb and things like Pawn chatter sticks out like a sore thumb but if you're looking for an ARPG with in depth combat mechanics and smooth controls there's pretty much nothing else in its league.

might want to say what games you've played, otherwise i'd just throw out the standard answers of Dragon Age Origins, Baldur's Gate 1, 2, Neverwinter Nights, Morrowind, Skyrim, Fallout, Knights of the Old Republic, mass effect, witcher

Diablo 3 may be what you're asking for.

It's barely an RPG in the story sense (And what story there is ranges will make you laugh and/or cry for all the wrong reasons), but it is at it's core a very well playing action rpg that is all about customizability.

In D3 you get to set 6 abilities out of a pool of 24 (?), 4 passives out of a pool of 20, 3 legendary gems out of a pool of 20, and then 3 cubed modifiers out of a pool of 100+ Then you have Legendaries which each add another modifier, paragon levels that allow you to boost some strengths or cover some weakness (and gain overall power) and the possibilities are legion. And you can switch freely.

And you can do this for 5 classes.

Of course at the top end, the best choices are somewhat limited. But even then each class has 4 class sets that are decent enough, that add a lot of variety of play. And finding one good weapon can totally flip what is best for your gear to play.

Most importantly, I find it fun to play. There's a 90/10 tradeoff where most of the time it's not very challenging, then you hit a bad pack of elites and suddenly you've got work. And the loot treadmill is pretty well tuned.

@zevvion: If the Souls games didn't exist, Dragon's Dogma would be held up as one of the least JRPG-y RPGs to come out of Japan in years. It's got much more in common with Western RPGs.

You can also turn the pawn chatter off, but what sort of deviant would do that? ;)

@zevvion: Path of Exile is massively superior to D3 in every way except performance and arguably artstyle, honestly. And a new league is starting there soon too. If that's the kind of game you're leaning towards then I'd pick PoE.

What would you say makes Path of Exile better than Diablo? What I like about Diablo was how 'solid' it feels and how much constant progression it has. I played Path of Exile for about two hours or so, not enough to say it's inferior, but from what I played I felt I was progressing somewhat slowly.

@zevvion: The richness of character building, the map endgame and crafting. PoE intentionally makes a lot of references to Diablo 2 with some of the enemies and quests but honestly when I look at how they've built on D2's legacy I'm almost willing to say it's better than D2 too. Itemization in D2 was great but PoE managed to put even more layers on top of it with sockets and links. The currency system works really well too because currency isn't just currency for buying items but at the same time fills the role as crafting materials, creating a natural currency scarcity that helps keep the economy somewhat stable.

D3 on the other hand first fucked up by featuring an auction house at release, then afterwards they took it out and the entire idea of item trading with it. Granted I haven't played D3 for a while and I've seen people mention PoE doesn't feel massively rewarding at low level but I'm convinced it is ultimately a much deeper game.

@bouken: Hm, well it is free to play, I may as well give it another shot. The one thing I don't like about Diablo III is the classes. There is nothing there that truly speaks to me. Otherwise it's a pretty perfect one of those games.

I'm not 100% sure if it's what you're looking for, but Xenoblade Chronicles X has a lot of freedom in its gameplay and world. Despite being a JRPG, it has a lot of elements of western RPG, and I personally think the gameplay is pretty solid. The story is pretty underwhelming and sparse from my experience, but it sounds like that shouldn't be too much of a problem for you. Again, not really sure if it fits what you're looking for, but there's a whole lot of exploration and a ton of different combat options that vary depending what class paths you go down.

@zevvion: Titan Quest? That was the game which knocked Diablo 2 off its perch for me.

The same team recently released Grim Dawn, but I've not played a lot of it yet.

One thing that springs to mind that on first glance might seem weird is Dark Souls 2. Yes specifically 2. It has the deepest character progression and playstyle variety of all the Souls games, even though it doesn't have a skill tree as such. It's the one I spent most time on simply because I felt everything was viable.

I would also second Dragons Dogma. It's kind of a flawed gem in that the world is not really developed enough but the combat is phenomenal and the loot lust is real. The PC port on Steam runs great.

Path of Exile is a good "one of those games", but the progression is really slow compared to Diablo 3 and in my opinion it feels really heavily balanced in favor for min-maxers.

Lastly I'd like to recommend the criminally overlooked Grim Dawn. It's basically steampunk/fantasy Titan Quest 2 with ton's of options. If you haven't seen it before, it's a Diablo-like ARPG were you build your character by picking two base classes. Your character thus becomes a mix with two skill trees. You can play an engineer-mage with spells and grenades, or a heavily armored summoner with greatsword and a hellhound pet. The base classes are very generic, but the combinations are all much more unique. If you want RPG systems, this is the one for you.

Edit: One more recommendation: Tales of Maj'Eyal. A classic one-man (I think?) roguelike with a very simple artstyle but incredible depth. Looks intimidating but it was super easy to learn. Just be prepared to die, because as a true roguelike it is out for blood.

@plasmaduck: @dave_tacitus: Thanks a lot for the Grim Dawn recommendation. I was already reinstalling Diablo III just now, but Grim Dawn looks really good.

One question though, I can't seem to find if Grim Dawn has any endgame going on? Diablo III's is pretty expansive and I enjoyed that. Does Grim Dawn have something similar?

@zevvion: The thing with Grim Dawn is it doesn't have a defined endgame like Diablo 3, it does have some überbosses (called nemesis bosses) and two level-scaling dungeons but for me the joy comes from leveling a character. The level cap is 85 and reaching that takes quite the effort. I currently have two >80 characters with decent gear (trash compared to optimal), only one of them has beaten the endboss on ultimate difficulty and I haven't beaten a single nemesis on ultimate. I don't care though, both of them feel complete to me and I'd much rather level my level 50ish all-grenades sorcerer than grinding legendaries with my lvl 83 storm druid. I'd say if you don't plan on sharing/trading items with the official forum, you'll find literally hundreds of hours of endgame trying to kill nemesis bosses.

Edit: There's a small Youtube channel called WolfOverclockedGames that has some good basics videos, tutorials, let's plays and such of the game. If you want to see what a lategame character looks like.

Yeah, I'm going for Grim Dawn. I was already starting a new character in Diablo III but the only complaint I have about Diablo III is that I don't like any of the classes all that much visually/skillwise. Grim Dawn looks really good. I already read you can NG+ and ++ it, so that's good.

Will still accept more options from others to add on my wishlist for another time though. Thanks for the help everyone.

I feel both PoE and Grim Dawn lack in the "kinetic" feeling of D3. I guess it's mostly about the Dark Souls debate of animation priority versus character control. (I love Dark Souls but I can see why not everyone likes it). In D3 when you press an ability, something happens, and usually in a big way. In both PoE and Grim Dawn I felt like I was plinking away at enemies, watching my dude swing the same move over and over. Not to mention all the movement speed and abilities which greatly change the game.

Also D3 with RoS is unrecognizable from earlier incarnations. And they've expanded on it even more with later patches, the progression into high grifts is pretty smooth. Of course everyone is going to hit a point where it isn't fun anymore (for me, unfortunately, I seem to hit that about 70% of my way into a season stash tab, and it becomes a bit of a grind), but that is still a 30-40 hour journey.

Grim Dawn is very long, so if it clicks, you'll be set. I looked into it when it went out of EA and it definitely has an endgame loop around all sorts of rare mats. Note that all saves are local / editable so if you multiplay you can encounter godlike characters who may or may not be legit.

But yeah, Roguelikes can be really fun too. I personally recommend Dungeon Soup Crawl, which is free, runs in a browser these days, and strikes a really good balance between tons of choice without requiring too much investment in learning obscure game mechanics.

@sanderjk: Funnily enough I used to think exactly like you do in terms of the Grim Dawn combat compared to Diablo 3. It takes some time to kick off, but once your build idea is flushed out and you have the skills you want, you can cause some seriously flashy destruction. Coupled with the screenshake (which you can turn off) you get the feeling of a proper demigod. I think the big strength of Diablo 3 is it does have many skills that involves fast movement and/or knocks enemies around. Most other games of the sort root you in place when you perform the skill, or it can even be as boring as "hit wide" or "hit twice" (talking to you PoE).

@zevvion: Two small tips. 1, you can totally save stat points which might come in handy to meet item requirements. Heavy stuff takes a ton of physique, and many people just dump all points there to be able to wear heavy armor, even if they play caster (me included). 2, If you spot a skill late in the tree that sounds cool, you can definitely make a beeline for it. It is smart though to try out a variety of skills since they can all be refunded. The mastery-bar however cannot be refunded. That is only really relevant if you're a natural min-maxer, otherwise go nuts.

Valkyrie Profile or Vagrant Story come to mind. Chrono Cross has a ton of characters, so you can pretty much customize your party to no end.

If you want all gameplay with lots of customization Kingdom of Amalur is a good one.

Don't know exactly what kind of RPG you're looking for but if you're up for some classic dungeoncrawlers and turn-based combat, I'd highly recommend Etrian odyssey 4, wich allows you to put together your own party and manage each member in great detail.

The shin megami tensei games also allows you, like pokemon, to put together lots of different demons into your team where you can also manipulate their abilities through fusing, teambuilding that the persona-seriens has gotten a bit lacking in.

For more action: Dark Souls is cool.

If you want to go old-school and less action-y, the Icewind Dale games are pretty good. They're more focused on combat mechanics and party customisation than story.

I actually have the same problem with The Secret World, maybe we can play together. I don't know much about the combat and stuff though; I'm still early on and mostly just interested in the conspiracy theory quests.

I'm gonna be weird and suggest Fallout 4 with the caveat that you play on survival mode. It basically turns Fallout into a half decent Stalker game and your perk choice matters more than in vanilla. Plus you get a clumsy, but beneficial, settlement building tool (again with the caveat that you play with SM on). It's hard, but really rewarding.

@zevvion: Icewind Dale or Temple of Elemental Evil are basically build your party, kill things in a dungeon kinda game.

Darkest Dungeon, perhaps?

Mount and Blade Warband. There's no story there unless you make one for yourself. But there are systems. Lots and lots of systems.

@zevvion: The Dark Arisen expansion area (Bitterback Isle) in Dragon's Dogma addresses some of your concerns.

If you end up looking for something after Grim Dawn I definitely think it's worth a look. DD is a very fun game

@zevvion: If you want an old school feel, I'd recommend the Etrian Odyssey series. JRPG yes, but it's actually a successor to the first person dungeon crawler games of yore in which you build a party of custom characters from scratch, outfit them with limited funds and then progress through a series of dungeons with digital grid paper and pencil. Each game in the series brings something a little different, but in general go with the earlier games if you're looking for a dark souls level of 'this game will be a dick to you' and later ones if you'd prefer some overworld exploration with your dungeon delving.

I'd be down for that, though I have to warn you I do not want to play it obsessively as MMO's are usually played. More like an hour or two here and there. I did play it a bunch already, but if I'll play it again I want to create a new character anyways.

@zevvion: Thank you for creating this post and to all others making the recommendations! Because I've been right there with you searching for the right game with a lot of awesome gear/loot with character tech trees and builds. Ive been playing Grim Dawn but its not quite doing it for me and im not sure why...

I went for Diablo seasons. It's fun. Also Darksiders II. Incredibly fun as well. Especially the Deathinitive Edition on PC.

I'm looking forward to seeing how Cosmic Star Heroine is. I hope they guys do a QL. Seems like it would be up Austins alley.

@zevvion: I've played a ton of diablo . But im going to get into Darksiders ll and fourtunatley i have that steam version from a sale on it recently :) God bless steam sales. Downloading now.

@shane0case: Yes, I'm also playing some Darksiders II here and there. It's better than I remember. I really love that game. The loot isn't as complex as Diablo's, but it's definitely there. It also has its own unique upgrade system with the Possessed Weapons. The world feels very Zelda-ey. It's pretty nuts how many things that game tries to be, and totally pulls it off.

It's like a mature Zelda crossed with Prince of Persia with Devil May Cry combat featuring Diablo loot. Also think the artstyle is really great.

Sacred 2 is a lot like Kingdoms of Amalur except for it's a different genre. It's a Diablo like game, but the questing, cities and world are delivered very similar to Amalur. Primarily in that the HUGE amount of quests just give you excuses to go out exploring the huge world, fighting and doing tons of quests. It has plenty of character customization as well. In fact, some of the builds for certain classes can basically completely change the type of class your were playing. (Ex: There's an angelic Paladin like class who can specialize in a what's basically just a giant sci-fi gun that's literally called the BFG) Hell, it even has a similar tone of humor and the world being a colorful fantasy universe.

I would actually say that if you're okay with playing an older (therefor not as refined as the current slate of Diablo clones) Diablo-like game, then Sacred 2 is probably more like Amalur than any other game you're going to see here. The biggest issue like I said is that the combat is just not on par with modern games like Diablo 3 or the many other games which followed after.

@shane0case: I cant wait to jump into it, You've sold me :) It's next on my list!