Would you be down for Fan edited version of games?

So sometimes people will point out how some games are too long, or have a section or two that suck to play or are tedious. What if someone fixed that? I realize that realistically, this is not possible to do but I am asking hypothetically.

So for example, everyone talked about how final fantasy 13 got good like 30 hours in, I played a good amount of that game and remember being confused and unsure of why anything was happening, eventually giving up. Then (ex name) CloudmanxX23 (who is known for his final fantasy edits) releases his thing that cuts the game down to 30 hours total and adjusts flow to make it clear what is happening and why. He may even have remixed the boss orders too.

Would you be interested in a world where there are specific people who become reputable for remixing the games to be better or just to remix them in a way to make them funny, hard or otherwise totally replayable?

What game would you like to see get this kind of treatment?

Basically what you are asking is would you be interested in all games being moddable by the community. The answer to which is always "yes, definitely".

I've played a fan-made mod version of DNF based on the 1998 and 2001 trailer.

The guy in the vid gives his thoughts on the game and compares it to those two trailers. As for me I thought it was an aswome mod. It definitely made me think if the real DNF was like this.

@super2j: if you simply use other peoples saves as a shortcut I don't care but what you're proposing I find disrespectful towards the developers. I haven't thought this through though. As of now I don't like this idea at all. Unless it's authorized that is. Much like an abridged version of a book.

You mean ROM hacks? Man, I wish there was somebody blogging about that.

@video_game_king: I'm not saying you should. But I'm not saying youshouldn't.

I am all for downloading the Dragon Age Origins mod that lets me skip The Fade, so yes.

@edsone: I dunno. If I buy a book, I'm free to scribble in the margins or skip chapters. If I buy a movie, if I want to fast-forward through scenes that's my perogative. I don't see why games should be any different.

You mean like how people have modded some of those old CRPG's to skip the boring intros, like Baldur's Gate 2?

That happens quite a bit in PC gaming, especially in games that support the modding community.

@towersixteen: that's different from altering the content. It's not simply fast forwarding. It's a media of a different nature. Doing so changes the core content and presents it in another form without authorisation. In this respect is like making and distributing an abridged version of a book without consent. Also, if the developers decided not to make the whole game readily accessible from the beginning it's their choice to do so and must be respected. That's why I said I don't mind if he uses other people's saves. That doesn't go against the 'rules'.

@edsone: In my scenario the user would have payed for the game, its very much like a mod. So to use your example: it is more like if someone told you what pages to rip out of a book and if you should put that page in another section of said book. And I can see that your main issue with this is that the author's vision should not be tampered with not matter what. I would never expect or participate in editing something like Journey, shadow of the colossus or other examples of games with very deep and crafted experiences. But, if I am playing a rpg and the first few hours are fetch quests, that is something I would be happy to skip. I am usually there for the plot anyway, so it helps me get to the artists core story faster. I mean I can't help but think about disney town in kingdom hearts birth by sleep, all i did was try to get out of there as soon as i got there. It offered nothing to me and stopped the progression of the story to force minigames down my throat.

I'd buy Dragon Age: Origins - Fadeless Edition in a heartbeat if Bioware offered that for sale.

Fan, short for fanatic

Fanatic: marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion

That "intense uncritical devotion" part really puts me off. If something is broken, that's a separate issue, but something like FFXIII, whether you liked it or not, that's the game that Square wanted to put out. Developers usually put in the effort to make sure that their game, unless they're aiming for a really niche audience, is as accessible by as many people as possible. If you love something that much, enough to put in the time and effort to hack and sew something together into a different experience, that's your love and your vision, not the developer's and certainly not mine.

Let me put it this way: if I had a friend that dabbled in carpentry, I'd be happy to have him make me a table, but I would not want him to remodel my home.

I could only play Skyrim with mods, so depending on the edits, sure, why not?

I tried out a fan translation of FFIV that was supposed to be good and truer to the original, Japanese version, but I never made it very far because having Cecil say "shit", just didn't feel right.

That exists! It's called the PC version. I am referring to an actual mod.

Hell yeah! A lot of the time, fans know what they want better than the developers do! There is a reason some games feel like they are only entertaining with mods.

hmmmm a final fantasy game where they re-localize all the norse mythology and did it well? hmmm

@super2j: I see your point but having paid for the game doesn't give you rights to do as you wish with it. Despite the fact that you enjoyed some experiences more so than others and wouldn't do anything about those this shouldn't be about quality or whether if "offered nothing" to you. I could make an argument about the very same games you wish you could skip some fetch quest and so on. If the creators wanted you to get to the "core" without those quests they'd have done so. I might not agree sometimes with their decisions but that's how it is. About changing the orders of pages in a book I don't think the comparison stands, we're talking another media. As I said if they wanted to give that option they would. They want to present it that way.

I'm not against mods but something like Skyrim and other games that give you the tools to do so.

I believe that any time or any way you're dealing with someone else's work it should be done with utmost respect. If you own a cinema you're not allowed to change the order of the scenes. It must be screened as it was meant to be. If you want to fast forward with your DVD then fine, you're allowed to do so. That's about it. You can't modify the contents though even if some do.

Being a computer scientist myself I know a thing or two how it usually works but just because I'm able to do some things doesn't mean I should or that is ethical. Even if no one will be coming for by head afterwards.

I wish however companies would sometimes allow fans to mod very old games. Sometimes there's no harm done but that should be their decision.

I'm not overly harsh though. I don't see any problem when people are trying to fixing bugs and so on. Fixes for olders games, things like DSFix for example I think it's fine as it doesn't change the content itself but merely make it run better. Then again if the developers are against that than it must be respected. Maybe some cases will be completly unreasonable that I'm not talking about exceptions.

So I just found out about something called Pokemon Sacred gold and storm Silver. Some dude modified the game in very much the same way I described it. He made all the gym battles hard as balls and with 6 pokemon, most 493 are available to be caught before the elite four (but you can get everything and evolve everything in some way on your own), he removed the-- in his words-- annoying trees to cut and other useless hm's. He made a number of other changes but he explains that they are optional. The things he listed make me want to play the game, and I have not felt that way about pokemon in a long time. I guess my hypothetical is not so...hypothetical.

I thought you meant like Yugioh Abridged, but video games.

I should have been clearer. This EXACT thing happens in PC gaming all the time, and has been happening for a long, long time. It's one of the platforms major advantages.

Let's illustrate this whole thing, shall we?

Well, this should start at the right time, anyway. It's about 18 minutes in.

Full disclaimer: I'm at work so I a) didn't see the whole thing and b) didn't hear it.

I played a mod of Civ5 that improved it vastly. I think it was by thaurissan or something like that. It's on Steamworks. It's dece.

Man people shit on the Fade a lot, while not the best part I really enjoyed it the first time I played. Is there ME Trilogy conclusion that doesn't include ME3?

Based on what I've seen in mods, any fan driven project is going to be too driven by personal idiosyncracies. So while they might have some good ideas, they're going to have some other ideas that are needless personal taste. Like say, if they were doing ME3, they might introduce a fight with Harbinger, which would be cool, but then they'd throw in ammoless weapons. One nice thing about big teams making games is that there are enough voices for a reliable majority to be formed as to what's broadly desirable and what's an uncommon personal taste..

I'm all for mod's and custom built levels but 'Fan Edited' versions of games just makes me wince. How arrogant do you have to be as a player to be like 'This thing you made, put years of hard work into? Yeah, you did it wrong, let me in my infinite wisdom show you where went wrong with my clouded judgement, lack of experience and story telling.' It's bordering on my most hated work of late and I don't like to use it myself but 'entitlement.' You shouldn't have the audacity or right to augment someones work to how you think the 'right' way is.

Yeah, I would be.

This seems... really... angry... for what reason exactly?

I dunno duder. Fan mods already remove bugs, change textures, weather systems, change quests - basically every mod ever made is saying "Hey, great game, but, this will make it better". For example my favourite small change mod in Skyrim increases the cost of Inns. Personally, I believe the cost of staying at an inn in Skyrim is broken. Pointlessly cheap. The mod does make it better in my opinion.

So I don't see where all the entitlement and arrogance comes from. Modders just want to change games into something they want to play more. Often times, players also like those changes.

Developers willingly put mod tools out there for many games, so clearly they think we should have the right to augment/change their work to what we feel is better.

I guess you're saying maybe that small changes are ok but major changes aren't? I guess I just don't see the difference between most mods and a "fan edit".

For example I love the shit out of MGS but would love a fan edit that trimmed the dialogue. Doesn't mean it's objectively better, but, it would be interesting and I'd like to see it.

All the examples you've mentioned I'm perfectly fine with, graphical tweaks, bug fixes. If you want to go into a game and rebalance the systems to make things easier/harder for yourself or give yourself infinite money then go crazy. If you want to create a custom class in an RPG or make maps for an FPS, totally, I will play that.

When it gets to main story arcs and campaigns is where I have the trouble. I just don't like the idea of people saying 'What you've done here is wrong, I know better, let me fix that for you.' By all means, if you want to tell your own story using the engine to make an add-on then do so but don't tamper with what effectively isn't yours. 'Fan edit' to me isn't too far a step away from fan fiction - 'I didn't like that Aeris died in Final Fantasy VII so I made a 'fan edit' to keep her in my party and completely change the story. Also Sonic was there and we all had hover boards.' It's bizarre and almost a little childish, some weird reality where you can't deal with things you don't like.

I didn't like FFXIII and it put me off the series but should I have the right to change it? No. 1) I wouldn't know where to start and 2) That's kind've the point. This has come from the 'making it better' angle because that was the OP's premise, not meant to be entirely aggressive but I do find it a bit disrespectful that some people think they can do a better job than the people actually being paid to make the thing. It's kind've a thing I think is unique to gamers.

Definitely.

Hmm ok I get where you're coming from. I disagree about the "rights" part but I guess I'm looking at that a little differently. Not sure how best to explain myself so bear with me.. Was just looking at a mod for ME3 that allows you to save a character who dies in the game. This is a radical change. I understand what you mean when you say it's a little childish that you want to change it, but, here's the rub.

Many of these mods are (this one especially) really complicated to do. They're not just flipping a switch to save a character. They're adding dialogue, animations, placing characters in new scenes, changing tons of text and more. I don't look at mods like these as saying "lets fix the game". I believe smaller mods that add more hair options or higher res textures have the spirit of fixing. These larger mods are a labour of love.

Mods that I consider fan edits I really believe are just saying, "Hey, what if this happened?". In this case, someone just really loved the character and spent who knows how many hours building a different version of the game so they could live the scenario differently.

I don't read that as coming from a place of thinking you're better than the developer, regardless of the fact that some of these modders really are developers (and sometimes, just to make things confusing, literally work for the developer whose game they are modding - see the Witcher's full combat rebalance which is MASSIVE mod that complete changes the combat of the game). In complete truth, neither you or and I can know the intentions of any modder.

If someone makes a mod with the spirit that they think they are better than the dev and want to fix the game and etc etc, with all that ego, than, yeah, fuck em. I don't want to play that mod either.

But in a lot of ways a Fan Edit is just fan fiction. What if Aeris was alive? What if you save Otacon and Meryl? Some people have the skill to write prose fan fiction, others can do it in-game.

It's just another spin on the story, and if there are users with the not-so-insignificant skills required to tell these stories, I think there are gamers out there who want to see it.

As far as "The Right To Change" a game goes, I feel that is on the dev. Doesn't making mod tools and opening the engine up to gamers basically give them right to change a game? If a dev doesn't want mods, I agree that enters an interesting, game specific problem.