I Hate Unions

Black text fail.

This is all common sense. However, until you come up with a better solution for worker's rights (which, as a hardcore libertarian, you probably don't believe in as I think you're a property owner = god in his domain type of person?), the majority of people will never give up on them.

I'm split on unions. 50 years ago, unions were extremely important for helping the employees receive benefits that we take for granted today. So they do have their purposes. But sometimes unions are so corrupt they take advantage of their clout to corner the higher-ups. In Quebec, there is the Blue Collar Union, which is by far the most corrupt union in North America without being connected to the mob. But unions built Quebec at the same time, so we can't get rid of unions.

But what is missing from your idea is the human aspect. As usual, it is always gone. There is a certain amount of time a person can work until they are fatigued, and the lack of unions would surely mean that the company cuts down on safety protocols as well as break times. Benefits would be slashed as well all know that the company has no need to give to the employees, they are pawns and can easily be replaced (In their eyes). People are greedy but also fragile. What is going to stop the higher ups from making the factory a sweatshop while they make a couple extra million? Nothing.

So we can't have the option where there are no unions, because then it brings out the greed in the higher-ups. But we can't have overly powerful unions, because then it would be like the Blue Collar Union I mentioned earlier. It is safe to say the majority of people prefer the idea of moderation. Regulate unions to stop them from being too strong, but keep a certain amount of clout, so they can deal with the tyrannical presence of greed.

Finally. Fellowship of the Ring sucks.

No. Unicorns are great. They are so much fun to ride, really.

Unions / Corporations / Whatever. It's a collective bargaining entity. Either it's a collective on the "capital" side (corporation) or on the labor side "union".

When I saw this thread, I thought it said "I Hate Onions", and I was thinking "Oh hey, an interesting topic that I give a shit about!"  But...

I am disappoint.

Think about it like this:

Companies -deflate- wages already. Unions exist to inflate them back to normal. Sometimes they get carried away, sure, but unions are supposed to normalize wages to the market instead of taking a normalized wage and increasing it.

I'm no economist, though.

Jesus Christ that is a lot of black text

My dad makes 80 dollars an hour. He works in a union. Unions are awesome. Also it keeps the foreign people from TAKIN ER JEARBS

The teacher's union here in Ontario owns two professional sports teams and several prominent Toronto properties. I don't know about you, but that sort of goes beyond "fair pay".

unions don't hurt the economy or break the free market system. they're really nothing more than an organized body built to ensure a fair dialogue between the workers and management, so that they can work out a mutually beneficial relationship, rather than one of pure exploitation in which one side has all the power.
what breaks this mutually beneficial relationship is not giving workers an advocacy body, it's forcing union workers to compete with non-union workers, who will work for peanuts without benefits, or worse, forcing them to compete with overseas labour who are so desperate they will allow themselves to be abused for 16 hours a day for less than peanuts, no benefits and no job security.

you talk about more wealth being created when you pay people a pittance and work them like dogs. but why is that a compelling argument to us, when all that wealth goes to a much smaller number of owners, and the workers, who made that wealth a reality, don't get anything for our time & labour? why not go as far as monarchy? why not go as far as slavery? respect for people's time and labour, or their dignity as human beings, factors nowhere into your argument.

and just as an aside, i'm sure you, personally, are not an owner of industry, and i hope you are under no delusion that you ever will be. you stand to gain nothing and lose a great deal in your perfect world.

I would always trust a union to look after  my welfare than a corporation.

Nothing wrong with voluntarily-formed mutual-representation systems.

But in effect unions are labour brokers. Manipulating the supply of labour to drive their returns higher. They're like Opec, but they're dealing in people and not oil.

unions also make it harder to hire new people at their company and make prices go way up for the consumer.

in short: union workers get richer at the expense of others getting poorer

You know, Burton, you could edit quotes down and leave the formatting normal, instead of using that obnoxious system.

I don't think voluntarily formed labour corps necessarily make rigid the costs of labour. In many cases they can provide flexibility and a dynamism that a single labourer could not (hence the value of outsourcing).

Like the leftists who hate corporations because limited liability makes them immune to criminal prosecution, I have to remind those with the same political stripes as me that the current political-economic state of affairs would not necessarily apply to a differently-organized social system.

Basically what I am saying is in a free society, unions might become labour-supply corporations, and that process might increase the availability of the supply of labour.

That isn't necessarily true. Corporations in other aspects of the economy don't simply make rigid the supply of their goods to drive up the price of their goods. If it were up to Chevron and ExxonMobil, oil prices would be lower, because they wouldn't accept the supply constraints Opec thrusts upon them.

Unions can exist for reasons other than the cost of labour. They can be ways for workers to pool their resources to purchase products and services collectively, driving down the cost for them of the item they wish to purchase.

Though you're right that if their only purpose is to drive up the cost of a thing, then they wouldn't last long in a free market.

Industrial revolution good?

Not really sure what the answer is, but I think a lot of unions as of late are corrupt and don't help workers like they once did.  They're just like the businesses.

My dad worked for a corporate airline for 40 years and the union ended  up cutting half of his pension.  Sure it wasn't just the Union doing that alone, and there are obviously other factors, but I just don't get how you can let workers down when they're paying their union dues for 40 years.  As soon as you retire they could care less about you.

I had to pay a union start up fee of $30, and I have to pay $27 a month now that I just started working at Slaveway. (By July 26 they'll have to increase they're pay per hour to $7.25 to keep up with the minimum wage laws).

Working as a courtesy clerk, I see no need for the union seeing as I'm being paid the state minimum wage.

I hate them. I can't wait until I can get my originally planned summer job as a Lifeguard. (Unfortintiallly for me, they hired at the pool when I was on  vacation). :( I'm pretty sure I would have gotten the job if I had known about it. (They pay $16 an hour starting out)

Oh well, the pool will be hiring in the Fall and I'm volunteering at the pool every Saturday for childrens classes so I pretty much have a job secured there. If not, I could always get a lifeguard job on the local military base.

black text it burns it burns

Unions destroyed the American steel and automotive industries let us not forget. And nowadays do a half-assed job at protecting workers rights anyways, its no longer the 70's and the mob is no longer behind the unions. So now unions are pussies and a waste of money and would do much better if they were dissolved and workers rights were outlined by laws not contracts subject change.