The Ups and Downs of Rick & Morty

Before I start criticizing the show I do want to mention that I am a fan and it would probably make my top 10 cartoon list if I ever had to make one for some reason. With that out of the way, I think the show needs to be a little bit more subtle and/or get away from all this psychology stuff a little bit. I have no problem with them exploring psychology, but it's not their strong suit. The last episode made my stomach turn with the idea of a guy banging animals and then eating his own kids so he'd have food to survive, which is in an episode about Rick and Beth's toxic father/daughter relationship. That just felt lazy and gross. The episode where they take out their toxins had interesting parts, but the show telling us Rick/Morty have a toxic relationship has been beat to death, which they go back to again in this season's clip episode with us seeing Morty's erased memories. Saying they have bad relationship and Rick saying the universe is meaningless and nothing matters for the 30th time gets old.

I did love a few episodes this season like the citadel episode, Jerry/Rick's adventure, and a couple others. I just hope they don't do so much armchair psychology in future seasons. Less Beth and especially Summer has been a good thing. In the past Beth and Summer have felt thrown in and like a waste of time, which is something they've largely gotten away from this year. I think Bojack Horseman handles depression, anger, self-destruction, addiction, unhealthy relationships, etc better. I'd rather see Rick & Morty go on adventures and be sci-fi like they did in past seasons... in season 2 seeing the screen split more and more as different realities/possibilities were created was very interesting. I'd rather see that than some bizarre mixture of bestiality/incest/cannibalism. Of course they can still explore unhealthy relationships and be gross (I liked Pickle Rick), but I think it should be in moderation and have some self-restraint.

@deathstriker said:

I don't think the show is going to stop reminding you of its pretty obvious existential and/or nihilist viewpoint any time soon. It's a pretty key component of the show.

They still do that in just about every episode. The only difference is that I feel the family is involved more often this season, whereas season 1 and 2 were often "Rick and Morty are off doing the fun A plot, while some completely irrelevant B plot shit is happening to Jerry and/or Beth and/or Summer." Get Schwifty in Season 2 might be the absolute worst offender of this; that whole episode is pretty much a dumpster fire of forgetability except for the actual Get Schwifty song that's like 35 seconds long.

I guess I don't really follow your complaints because it doesn't feel like a huge change to me; the show has always highlighted the dysfunction of Morty's family and does a bunch of "armchair psychology" in that regards, though I guess it's a little more front and center this season.

Rick and morty is good in short bursts but I can't imagine binging it. It's good fun, but it gets old fast.

Loving this season like I did 1 & 2. I love Dan Harmon's style though I am a huge fan of Community, besides season 4.

Show is still incredible and I've been loving this season, but missing the emotional gutpunches of seasons 1 and 2 so far (though it gets pretty real in places). Would rather they not force it. I'm still amazed by how crazy creative this show has stayed.

I probably shouldn't say anything, because I don't watch the show, but I've seen less then 5 episodes and I noticed that some episodes just make feel quite off/uncomfortable, like I'm in standing in a bright room that feels pitch black. I get that whole uncomfortable vibe is really hot in general, and some of it is hilarious, and well written, but man, something about the show rubs me the wrong way.

@bobobones: Is it maybe how nihilistic the show is? I personally am really enjoying this season, though every time it comes up in conversation I always point out that it is 100% not a show that everyone will like. (and I dont mean that in the shitty "you have to be smart to get it" way)

The show's take on depression is off-putting for me. Feels totally disingenuous and tacked on. Every season has it's half dozen "also he's sad" moments and it's just window dressing. The characters don't need depth so stop shoehorning fake sentimentality into your comedy show.

I can't think of a single episode from the first two seasons that I didn't love, but for this one I think the only episodes I feel the same way about have been the first episode, the vindicators one, and the citadel episode. I wouldn't say I think any of the other episodes have been bad, but I couldn't help but feel a little disappointed watching them(especially Pickle Rick and Morty's Mind-blowers). I can't quite put my finger on why, maybe it is just how much more nihilistic it is, now with the rest of the family realizing and kind of accepting how awful of a person Rick is.

Rick being nihilistic is fine with me, I just don't want to hear the same line (or nearly the same line) repeatedly. Looking into their relationships and getting psychological isn't something new for the show, but I just looked at all the episodes this season and out of the 9 so far, the season premiere (Rick escaping prison) and the citadel episode are the only ones that don't explore toxic relationships or go Dr. Phil. Also, those are my two favorite episodes of the season (I think plenty would agree with that) and they feel the most like prior seasons. Like I said before, it comes down to moderation and they've gone overboard this season. 7 out of 9 episodes shouldn't explore unhealthy relationships or personality traits, so I'd say "a little more front and center" is an understatement.

Also, Beth's revelation that she's her father felt unearned. All we really saw was that she's okay killing and they randomly threw in a backstory that she was psycho growing up. The last episode and Mad Max one are my least favorite this season. The rest range from pretty good to great - I'd just like more variation in the overall theme.

Yeah, exactly this. I love the episodes of this show where they're just going on one-off sci fi adventures with absolutely no emotional weight attached to them. If I wanted character development and psychoanalysis, I would watch a drama. I absolutely hate when this show tries to explore its characters at any depth beyond surface level because A, it doesn't need to in order for the premise to work, and B, I honestly don't think they're very good at it. Having a therapist tell the family (and me as the viewer) about the dysfunction of the Smith family or having Beth explicitly state that she's so similar to Rick is way less effective than showing it in the actions the characters take. All the emotional development of these characters (besides the possible development of Morty into Evil Morty, maybe...?) feels forced, unearned, and unnecessary.

That being said, the show is still amazing when it hits, and just average when it doesn't. I do feel this is the most up-and-down season though.

I'm with you. I find it annoying especially because it's so rooted in a generic kind of tv show. It has the fun sci-fi adventures, but it's still got the nuclear family sitcom stuff throughout. It's the worst in season 1 with the very clear A plot B plot structure, and I had hoped they would move past it, and they are to a degree, but not enough. The show has very inconsistent quality. I almost stopped watching several because I was sick of the family drama stuff, and to be honest, I didn't care about season 3 until I was shown some decent episodes. Seriously, so much of this show is 20 minutes of family drama material repeated ad nauseam.

All this isn't to say that they shouldn't deal with darker drama material. The Ricklantis Mixup is probably the best episode of the show, but it's because that episode uses it's sci-fi, dimension leaping premise as the basic for both the comedy and the drama parts, which work in concert quite well. There's no hard line between serious parts and the comedy, but the show often does draw that hard line in a really awkward way.

To be honest, most cartoons have problems balancing their serious elements with their comedy, especially since most cartoons are still largely intended to be and structured as comedies. It's not exclusive with Rick and Morty, but I feel like it stings more here because you have some great sci-fi stuff shackled by a generic family sitcom elements.

It's sort of like jump scares to me, there are cheap low effort routes to eliciting certain responses from an audience. Sombre music while characters you like act sad is emotionally effective, but it's also the basis of those Sarah McLachlan ads asking you to help puppies or whatever. Just because you are engaging with a sad topic in a serious manner and the audience feels emotions because of it doesn't make it good storytelling. It's place within the larger narrative/structure of the show is important, and in Rick and Morty, these scenes often don't feel like they fit. They want Rick to be a deep 3 dimensional character, but it doesn't match with how the show treats him 90% of the time. It doesn't feel genuine, it feels emotionally manipulative because they just aren't putting in the work.

I'm in a similar boat to the OP. I like the show and I watch it every week, but I don't think it deserves the ridiculous amount of praise it's getting, and the fans who revere everything that Dan Harmon touches are pretty insufferable; No, I do not need you to condescendingly explain to me why you think the show is so layered and smart, and I find it especially ironic that you think I'm the idiot for not completely buying into it.

Anyway it's a good show, there's plenty of great jokes and it's entertaining that they're so aware of themselves and watching them mess with the viewers, but it's not the game changer that people make it out to be, and I agree that it seems lazy to dip into every contentious pop culture psychological issue without ever really properly engaging with it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

*shrug*

This is funny since I always felt the main appeal of the show was how deep and heartfelt and heavy it could get at times while still being hilarious amd crass and not ever trying to force it. But I'm sure someone will say how wrong I am.

I wouldn't say you're wrong, but I think the real main appeal of the show was wacky sci-fi adventures and Rick being such a cool, powerful, crazy, and immoral character with a couple of redeeming qualities. It feels like one of the writers took a psych 101 before season 3 and now they've almost hijacked the show. The concept of the show comes from Back to the Future, but this season in some spots it feels like the show is treating him more like Gregory House (a self-destructive a-hole) than a crazy ass Doc Brown when he used to be a mixture of the two.

As I said before, I think Bojack handles psychology way better plus I'd say Futurama handled sci-fi way better, since R&M has gotten away from science and explaining anything. Their toxic clones, Rick creating Beth's world, and other stuff just happens. I recently saw their Jurassic Park episode and Rick making the homeless guy huge in space was actually an interesting answer to the problem and funny. This season it seems like Rick would just snap his fingers and Morty would be out of the homeless guy no problem.

Yeah, I like the show but it seems like so many people online act like it's the first adult cartoon ever or easily the best one ever. Obviously it's subjective, but I think the show has plenty of cartoons that are equal or better (Venture Bros, Bob's Burgers, Futurama, Archer, Bojack Horseman, South Park, etc). I don't think it's easily the Michael Jordan or GOAT of cartoons. I do think it can make people feel smart due to the sci-fi concepts and/or people identifying with Rick, which is another reason it gets so hyped up. It's a good show, but I think they lost themselves a bit this season, since plenty of people do want sci-fi adventures, so they need to work on their balancing.

The issue to me is that the psychology aspect of the show never really goes anywhere and that the creators are fine with that. They focus so much on trying to be different, that characterization is pretty much non existent with every character aside from Morty. The problem with this is when they try to branch out and do these characterization episodes is that it's so in your face, but everybody just remains the same afterwards. I guess that's supposed to be the point that the creators are trying to make here, but how often are we going to see this before it just becomes a generic running gag of the show?

May get fried for this, but some of the fanbase for this show need to reevaluate themselves and the show. My first thoughts now on seeing someone with a Rick and Morty shirt is to avoid them like the plague because they're going to hold me down and shove down my throat why Rick is the best character to be written in the last century and why he should be the supreme ruler of the universe because his intellect and logic is flawless.

Watching this season of Rick and Morty just makes me sad that Venture Bros. isn't as popular.

I've seen a couple episodes and it's pretty funny. But also I'm in college, and BOY there's an insufferable amount of Rick and Morty fandom around sometimes. I know it's kinda becoming a cliche to not like superfans of the show, but my class's discord has a dedicated Rick and Morty channel, I hear people ask me constantly if I watch it....One time someone actually just saw a pickle and screamed "IT'S PICKLE RICK!" and their friends started yelling "PICKLE RIIIICK" back.

Overall I'd say it's a net negative.

I loved this aspect of the show ever since the latter half of the first interdimensional cable episode. That was masterful for me, but I could just be thick and sentimental.

I really like the show, but I there are few shows were I say, "Wow, this is great and will stand the test of time as a classic." What I appreciate most is the level of 'theoretical' sciencey stuff they deal with - Multiple dimension, time travel, aliens, alien governments, alien graft, interstellar police, interstellar terrorist, etc. The show will tackle any of that without worrying if a 10 to 60 years old in Maryland, California, or Kansas will get it or not. I wish Star Trek would far care less if people "got it" or "could follow the logic".


I think Archer is the only oanimated series where you can just say their batting averages of good shows is huge...beyond touching.

On the other hand, Archer is never really saying anything. Archer like all situation comedies based in an "office environment" are funny, sad and touching all in equal measure but not saying much beyond the "human condition of a society" since 10,000 BCE.

When it comes to fanbases getting big and annoying I think of TDK's quote of "You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain", which kinda sums up something like Family Guy. If Family Guy didn't get renewed and stayed cancelled it would be believed like Firefly and other cancelled shows. Now it's kinda looked at as this big annoying thing that annoying people like (like Call of Duty). I think Rick & Morty fans, the louder ones more pretentious ones, could down a similar path.

I like Venture Bros more, but the creators make it hard to follow and keep track of the show. It started 14 years ago and they've only done 6 seasons, so they've limited their own success IMO. People nowadays expect consistency and predictably, so you can't disappear for 1 to 3 years at a time and expect for people to waiting hat in hand.

I don't think the Rick and Morty fandom is worse than any other fandom, which is to say it's still terrible. I do find that fandoms around cartoons that do delve into serious moments can be annoying in a slightly different way. The moment you add lore and deep themes into something, it brings out the true obsessives, and before long people feel like they have greater ownership over the show than the creators. Often it's partly the creators' fault for catering to this crowd above all others, and eventually that morphs into the sentiment that if you don't like something for the right reasons, you're not welcome. I don't think it's happened with Rick and Morty yet, but it's moving there, and as the show dips deeper into the serious stuff and longer narratives, it will only get worse.

Ultimately this all stems from when shows like Rick and Morty deal in both the serious and the wacky but can't find a way to make them work in tandem. It fractures the fanbase, and the ones who just want wacky adventure are seen as somehow less relevant than the fanatics that write rickipedia pages (or whatever the Rick and Morty wiki is).

The hero worship of Rick is a slightly different beast. I'd compare it to all those people who think the Joker from the Dark Knight is philosophically relevant and totally has the right ideas about society. Young folks love their asshole genius misanthropes, and like to ignore the part where they are extreme exaggerations and demonstrably terrible people just cause "they're totally right you know". It's annoying as hell but Rick isn't the first example of it.

It's a helluva show and I feel like this season is, in large part, responding to the very real Cult of Rick that a lot of people are complaining about in this very thread. Hell, one of the captions of this very episode said "Rick and Morty fans are the Phish fans of animation. Discuss." while another exhorted, "Stop shouting PICKLE RICK in public. It's very annoying."

Maybe it's not the best blueprint for a season to respond directly to fans, but I feel like they were treading the fine Fight Club/Mad Men line where assholes were starting to claim it as their own, even though the entire premise of the show is anti-asshole. And I can't be too mad at that.

The fact that this season contains 2 episodes I'd consider the best on TV (Citadel of Ricks and, ironically, Pickle Rick), I'm fine with them delving into some armchair psychology. It's a cartoon about a mad scientist and his family, I'm okay with the showrunners/writers not having a psychological doctorate, but likely channeling what they themselves have heard in therapy. And the diversity initiatives seems to be paying dividends with the added bonus of pissing off the right people.

@dizzyhippos: I think you're right. Now that I'm in my mid 20s, I've mostly chilled out on all that stuff. Got my fill in my late teens and early 20s, I guess. I do feel like the show has a great sense of freedom that I don't see often.

I've noticed that half of the episodes of the new season suck. It almost feels like they have two separate group of writers taking turns, that's how different the episodes feel. The awful ones usually focus on family and tend to have lots of reddit jokes and memes, while the good ones have nothing of that sort.

I enjoy Rick and Morty, but I'm not crazy about it. I see it as a sort of the heir to Futurama as a funny animated show that can explore science fiction concepts in a satirical way. But I actually like the characters in Futurama. Sure it's a fun bit that Rick is such a dick to his family, but it prevents me from loving the show. I know Dan Harmon can write characters that I can invest in because I love the cast of Community, so that makes it a little more disappointing.

I watch the show, and i've enjoyed a number of the episodes, but it isn't something that I would recommend for someone to watch.

A few weeks ago I decided to give it a try. I fell in love. I just love how fucking weird it can be. I've had no issues with the newest season. It's different, but I'm still enjoying it.

You should try The Venture Bros, if you haven't already. It takes a little bit of time to get into it, but I don't think there's been a bad season yet. Same sci-fi / comic book style, but with relationships that are grounded and enjoyable to follow.

I remember hearing people complain about the Rick & Morty fandom before I ever experienced the bits of the fandom they were complaining about. I'm endlessly annoyed by the whole "People who like ______ act like jerks, so I'm not gonna watch/buy/use it." I mean, yeah, a lot of people who like Rick & Morty are pretentious knobs who like to act like they're special because they "get it," but a lot of people who like Xbox or baseball or Chevrolet or nike are like that, too. Doesn't really reflect on the quality of the product. Two bad sides of a gross coin that you left in your car's cupholder for a year and it's all sticky and covered in mung.

I feel exactly the same. The second episode I ever saw of the show was the one with Unity, where Rick tries and fails to kill himself at the end, and I realized, "holy shit, this show kinda goes places, doesn't it?" I personally think it strikes a really great balance between goofy nonsense and sincere emotion, but I can totally see why other people find it abrasive and unpleasant.

Ha, I agree with this. Because it's super edgy to idolise the philosophy of a sociopath. In between listening to Sum 41 and painting your bedroom black.

Honestly though I'm at that age now where I'm jaded enough to mistrust anyone who shows an above-average level of enthusiasm for anything. So whatever, I'm cool to let people enjoy their thing, just as long as they don't feel the need to talk to me about it afterwards.

People sure love to talk about this show.

It's a good show. Very creative. Some teenagers (and adults) have misinterpreted the show and found some fake, deeper meaning. That happens to a lot of stuff. Don't let it get to you. Especially don't dislike it before checking it out because you don't like how some people act. That's self-sabotage.

(To OP): Dan Harmon has explored the psychology of his characters since his Community days. It's a better take on characters in a comedy that the traditional Flanderization that usually occurs in most comedy shows. Though Jerry has been subject to a bit of Flanderization in how pathetic and passive he is, to be fair. Otherwise I think it's great that people are calling out Rick's nihilism, Beth's lack of realization regarding her selfishness, Summer's hidden competency and dating issues, and Morty's gradual growth out of naiveté, though he still has it in spades.

Still, that 'You're smart and the universe hates that' speech Rick gave last episode is going to be taken to heart by a lot of so-claimed-smart emotionally immature people to justify their issues, which is unfortunate. Not enough people are going to see through the self-justification at play there, which may be why they have to lampshade it in so many episodes that advice from Rick should be taken with a grain of salt.

This is a bad opinion. The only reason this show is any good is because of how its writers reckon with the broken people at its heart.

I love Rick and Morty but Jesus Christ the fandom turned ugly. They were already insufferable going around badgering people who hadn't watched the show but this doxing a female writer shit was fucking gross. What was their beef anyway? Was it because of some perceived dip in quality or how the show tried to change things up to avoid being formulaic that pissed them off so much? I'd love if Dan Harmon and Justin Roiland just went "fuck it you want to act like that than we are done no more Rick and Morty ever". Something cathartic about a toxic fanbase inadvertently killing the thing they are obsessed with.

I liked Season 3 it made Rick less "cool" and doubled down on what a horrible and even petty person he is capable of being despite acting like he is above it all. I am also glad they did more to flesh out Beth's character and motivations though I think it was at the expense of any real character development for Summer. Then again you only got ten half hour episodes a season to work with so there is only so much you can do with secondary characters.

Don't really feel I need the heavy issues being addressed so much, we have Bojack Horseman for that. Rick & Morty scratched a different itch but it seems to be increasingly reaching over my itch and doing a worse job of satisfying it than Bojack.

I never understood people's problem with fan bases, like, can't you just watch and enjoy a show without diving into the fandom and seeking it out? Every fandom has its horrible section of people but you're in no way to forced to come in contact with those people. The only way you hear about those people is when other bring it up, not those fans themselves.

@ravelle: I am when Dan Harmon himself is talking about how horrible some of the Rick and Morty fanatics are. Plus the Rick and Morty fanatics seem pushier and louder than other fandoms save for maybe My Little Ponies and Homestuck.

I was really into Buffy the Vampire Slayer but I didn't send death threats to the writers when I thought Season 6 wasn't that good.

@spaceinsomniac: I love the Venture Bros! Own the first 4 seasons on DVD, but lost track of it after that because they were taking such long gaps between seasons. I should look into that again...