To anyone who is being affected by the immigration ban my thoughts are with you right now.

It's probably a good idea to keep tabs on America as our new president pisses off all of our usual allies (including this latest Australia beef) while wanting to team up with Putin & has also thrown around the idea of war/nukes in a playful manner. Not to mention less obvious things that ripple out such as possibly getting rid of net neutrality.

You have subs with nukes posted across the world. You have bombers with nukes ready to strike within 24 hours. You have, arguably, the most advanced army on the planet. You have a maniac who most likely doesn't even understand his actions have consequences in charge of all of it. Of course people are going to follow this. If the US wasn't so powerful, literally, then very few people would care. But right now, the US is transitioning from a big brother, to a big bully to the rest of the world.

We've had more American news here in the past two weeks than in the 8 years Obama was president. It's not always in our faces like this, because it didn't matter as much before.

Well this is all tied into Trump so take a look at this video: https://twitter.com/PrisonPlanet/status/827122006520893440

These people are insane. How are people so mad about the right that they turn to pepper spraying and beating random people?

I'm on my phone so I'm not sure if I can make hyperlinks.

@wynnduffy: lol soros. Posting shit like that is gonna get this thread locked my dude.

@planetfunksquad: I removed it because I don't know how much of that is conspiracy and isn't

This shit at Berkeley is really rotten, nobody has the moral high ground anymore

@wynnduffy: CNN reported that the people busting up Berkeley were "an anarchist group known as the "Black Bloc" that has been causing problems in Oakland for years". There was a peaceful protest until they showed up. Just like the Inauguration protests were largely peaceful with the exception of a group of anarchists breaking the law, like anarchists do.

@thatpinguino: I'm going to wait for more sources to come in on that but it's certainly an interesting twist

@thatpinguino: this is probably true. Black bloc isn't exactly an an anarchist group though. It's a tactic where people dress entirely in black, with masks, so that they blend into an amorphous block of people. A literal black block. It's meant to protect people's identities if (or when I guess) shit gets out of hand. It's common in the protest movement all over the world, check the protests in Turkey for example, where black bloc had motorcycle helmets in place of masks. There's a lot of friction between peaceful protesters and black bloc types.

(I'm not saying you didn't know this btw, just some context for people who maybe dont)

@planetfunksquad: I knew this sort of thing happended, where people cover up their identity to blend in with a crowd. But I'm not certain if this was a pattern among the protesters or a known outside group. The CNN reporting indicates that the school believes this is a known group from off campus that has caused problems in the past. Here are the excepts from the start of the story

The university blamed "150 masked agitators" for the unrest, saying they had come to campus to disturb an otherwise peaceful protest.Administrators decided to cancel the event about two hours before the Breitbart editor's speech. UC Berkeley said it removed him from campus "amid the violence and destruction of property and out of concern for public safety."Black-clad protesters wearing masks threw commercial-grade fireworks and rocks at police. Some even hurled Molotov cocktails that ignited fires. They also smashed windows of the student union center on the Berkeley campus where the Yiannopoulos event was to be held. At least six people were injured. Some were attacked by the agitators -- who are a part of an anarchist group known as the "Black Bloc" that has been causing problems in Oakland for years, said Dan Mogulof, UC Berkeley spokesman.

and here's a link to the full thing http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/01/us/milo-yiannopoulos-berkeley/index.html

Unfortunately people were hurt, which is unacceptable. Also, if we've learned anything from the protests that have gone on in the last few years, once violence breaks out the whole protest will likely be blamed regardless of how many people were peacefully assembling before assholes started throwing rocks.

@wynnduffy: I gotta say, the dude who immediately posted a video from Infowars and condemned protesters replying with "I gotta wait for all the facts" to a CNN article is kinda hilarious.

The video I posted isn't from Infowars, it was a repost.

@thatpinguino: oh I don't doubt that the was an organised contingent at the centre of this, I was just pointing out that black bloc protesters aren't always looking for a fight, more that they're ready for one should it find them. Obviously in this case they were looking to do some shit and your out look on whether or not that's justified is up to you. I know that at protests I've been to I've been grateful for a black bloc presence when police have over stepped their bounds, as well as pissed off when they intentionally cause shit at an otherwise peaceful protest. I wanted to point out that all these groups aren't aligned, even if what happened here was obviously coordinated.

I don't know what the UC Berkeley protests have to do with this thread but since it's being discussed, I just want to say that neo-nazis (which is what the alt-right is) don't deserve a platform to speak. The last time Milo spoke at a university he singled out and harassed a trans student at the school. He put her picture on the screen, called her a tranny and said she "forced her way into the women's locker room."

Hate speech has consequences and I support anyone who tries to stop this kind of garbage on their campus. Colleges should now think twice about letting people like Milo speak at their school. Sounds like a success to me.

@milkman said:

Where is the line drawn? Random people were just pepper sprayed and beaten unconscious, some of them not even part of the 'Alt-Right' if reports are to be believed.

@milkman: all this stuff is related and obviously discussions take tangents, but yes to all of this. Also one of the dudes supporters shot someone in seattle a few days ago. Some broken glass and some scuffles is the least of it.

@milkman: Sure, but you can shut that shit down without throwing firebombs. Form a ring around the venue, petition the administration, organize a baller counter event to draw focus from the assholes speaking on campus.

On the actual topic of this thread, it looks like more temporary injunctions have been passed since this weekend in favor of greencard holders.

This. I'm not sure why many who identify as left are overlooking the violence just because it was against "Neo Nazis". I use quotes because I have no idea if there's truth to all the nazi stuff, it seems like that has become quite the buzzword.

From the small clips I've seen from Milo's speeches I can't quite be sure why he would attract this level of, well, rioting? Having said that, I'm not saying he doesn't deserve it (the protests, not violence) because I simply am not too familiar with him and with all the hyperbole out there it's a little difficult to know what the real story is.

@thatpinguino: The reality is that those methods of protest are usually largely ineffective. There were petitions to cancel Milo's appearance, even professors were calling for it to be cancelled. The school chose to not listen so the students took it into their own hands. I don't really care about busted windows but it's unfortunate that a couple people were apparently attacked. However, it sounds like there were no serious injuries unlike when a Milo supporter shot a protester at his last speaking appearance as someone else previously pointed out.

And since this is pretty much a general Trump thread at this point, he spent his morning feuding with Arnold Schwarzenegger at the National Prayer Breakfast.

seeing 45's twitter response to the berkeley stuff makes me wonder why an adult hasn't stepped into the room, grabbed the phone out of his hands and said, "there are other issues to work on, donald. you can have this back when you do your fucking job."

I've seen more passion from the right condemning these stupid, but mostly harmless UC Berkely protests than I have over a right-wing white nationalist shooting up a mosque and killing 6 people.

The state of this country when President Arnold Schwarzenegger is a desirable alternative to what we have.

@horseman6: Here is that immigration poll I mentioned, about 6 questions down.

@cmblasko: I'm sure I'd be fine, but I won't lie -- I'd be super on edge and uncomfortable the entire time.

@haz: If it helps at all, almost every major city in the US has had several protests against this immigration ban. NYC in particular had the entire cab union shut down on the day of the EO in solidarity with the people who were detained. Most of the metropolitan centers hardly bat an eye at people from other cultures in daily life. Now when it comes to things like de-facto school segregation, there are still issues in even the most diverse of cities. However, as a tourist that shouldn't impact you.

You're right -- being in a bigger city, I'd expect people to be more open. Though, reading about how some Canadians were denied at the border and asked if they were pro/anti Trump makes me nervous, especially since I am Muslim too. I guess though, this is working in Trump's favour. He's set on keeping a lot of Muslim's out of the country, and even as a Canadian I'm literally scared to cross over.

I really want to refrain from sounding super whiny or negative, but that's just honestly how I feel. I'm probably over thinking it to be honest.

@haz: Look at it this way, if you try to cross and are stopped, it will definitively suck. It will be a waste of a multi-hour drive and that sucks a whole lot. But, if you aren't stopped, you will get to see some of the coolest places I've ever seen. Once you get past the boarder and into NY, you should be in friendly turf. I've done the drive from NY into Quebec and it's a pretty great road trip. I'm a similar reverse trip should be cool as well. If you don't feel safe, I don't blame you. I know I wouldn't feel safe either if the same thing happened to Italians (it kinda did in the late 1800s/early 1900s), but I know for a fact that large swaths of this country hate every single thing about this ban and NYC is one of those places. Hope you make the trip some day.

At the very least, the next Democratic president will likely strike this EO down on their first day, so it'll likely be gone in 4-8 years at the latest. Though if you take the order at face value, it last 90 days (though I don't think that date should be taken at face value).

@thatpinguino: For sure, I'm still debating if I want to take a trip down -- and NYC has definitely been one of the places I've really wanted to visit. I'm actually really impressed by the amount of people protesting and speaking out against their government, especially in a time like this. It's great to see.

@haz:

just want to echo the sentiment above- i don't think anyone would blame you for having second thoughts about coming to visit. and i think it would be prudent to at the bare minimum wait a few months while the current administration struggles with the mess they've made.

but do know that urban america (nyc, chicago, boston, LA, san francisco, etc.) very much is NOT on board with this administration, and those places that 45 loves to deride as 'sanctuary cities' are actively working to subvert his half-baked schemes. he might claim to be from this city, but he's not of nyc.

It's pretty damn sad that people from western societies are now too scared to go to the US, even on a friendly visit or pure tourism. Whether financially or straight up safety. You're not alone @haz. Many people are cancelling trips to the US. Even though my country isn't banned, there have been unconfirmed reports of hostilities towards any outsiders, being asked if they are religious and if so what religion they follow. It's nasty.

Hope you guys get your shit together soon.

@zevvion: Working on it!

This travel ban is a terribly thought out mess, it hasn't done anything to improve safety and all it's done is create a state of anxiety and fear in large parts of the country, disrupted tourism, and tarnished the image of the United States across the world. This dude was on tv today at some prayer shit talking shit about Arnold Schwarzenegger tv ratings, dude is a clown. Guy is a tactless idiot, there was no clear explanation given about the ban or any legit reason why it was rushed through so all it did was create instant panic. I wouldn't travel here either right now honestly.

@thatpinguino: If only he had an account here. You guys would be able to ban him for using the word: REDACTED.

The people in here downplaying the horrific rioting in Berkeley makes me want to vomit. Go watch any of the many, many videos out there of people being assaulted and beaten unconscious. There is a good chance that a man died last night.

This stupid idea that we have to pre-emptively out-violence the "fascists" because they should have done that in Germany shows a total misunderstanding of history. Germany was a fucking powderkeg in the 30s. Leftist and rightist fighting was constant and incredibly violent. The rise of National Socialism was incredibly complex and did not happen because there just wasn't enough stupid street violence.

Decrying extrajudicial violence is THE foundation of the civilized state. But now we have hordes of people who think that its ok to "bash the fach" which turns out means assaulting random people on the street who may or may not agree with you.

Over what? A literal, actual shitstirring troll who has basically made a career out of talking about how people don't let him talk about how people don't let him talk. That was worth probably millions of dollars in damages, who know how many people beaten in the street, and a continual loss of people's faith in our institutions when the entire police force stood down and watched this shit unfold.

Unfucking believable.

Shhhhhh. These people are brave revolutionaries you can't go saying such slanderous things about them.

Dark times we live in indeed.

@duluoz: All this outrage about the UC Berkeley protests (by the way, let's get our facts straight, no one died and there's no indication that there was "millions" of dollars worth of damages) would make a little more sense if the president of United States wasn't, as we speak, violating the human and civil rights of legal immigrants or if less than a week ago, a Trump supporting alt-righter hadn't walked into a mosque and murdered six people. With everything happening in the world, if THIS is the thing that makes you think we don't live in a "civilized state" anymore or in "dark times" than I can't help but wonder about you.

@duluoz: Having trouble finding reports of someone dying. All I can find is a bystander who was beaten up and a lady who was pepper sprayed. I feel bad for them, and I hope whoever did that stuff gets charged. Besides the fire on campus, the biggest property damage seems to be the windows that were smashed at the nearby bank. Millions of dollars in damages might be bit of a reach. Maybe I am looking in the wrong places but it really doesn't seem like as big a deal as you are making it out to be. I do think it was stupid, though, and plays into the "left wants to silence free speech" narrative.

@milkman: What's your point? Nobody dying and what you brought up does not in any way excuse that there was some poor dude laying face down outcold, allegedly with blood seeping out of a head wound. Attacking people and destroying property does nothing good for anybody's case against Trump.

@wynnduffy: My point is that that dude's post is completely over the top and this protest isn't going to destroy the foundation of our civilized state. That's ridiculous.

I didn't say he did die. I said there is a good chance a man died because I saw a video of a man out cold, face down on the concrete. So if he's not dead he just has a traumatic brain injury. Great. So much better.

From a CBS story:

By 8 p.m., a large crowd of people had moved off the campus and onto Telegraph Avenue. They smashed ATMs at a Bank of America branch and set several trash fires on Telegraph Avenue.

After marching west on Durant Avenue, the group moved north on Shattuck Avenue, smashing windows and vandalizing a Mechanics Bank branch near the corner of Bancroft Way.

Chase and Wells Fargo branches were also vandalized. A Starbucks location near campus was vandalized and looted.

Police also received reports that banks were set on fire in the area of Center Street and Shattuck Avenue.

It would not surprise me in the slightest if all this tallied up to a million dollars.

Considering the left is always badgering people about the fallacy of relative privation please don't start with the whataboutisms.

I am talking about THIS incident. THESE black bloc morons who don't give a shit about civilized society, and are just showing up in anonymous packs to get off on their righteous indignation and beat the shit out of random people who happen to be in the area and burn businesses that have fuck all to do with Donald Trump or any of this crap. They are scum and they should be rotting in a fucking cell. They are cowards.

THAT is what I am talking about. THAT is why I am mad. Violence is justified against "fascists" is being normalized in public discourse and as always regular people are getting the worst of it.

Mob violence and burning property are true signs of of politics in action comrade!

You're being sarcastic but I would suggest opening up a history book or two and you'll see that this is actually true.

Guess we just have a fundamental disagreement here because I'll take the normalization of violence against fascists over the normalization of fascism any day of the week.

That's different.

Somehow, I guess? I don't know.

One is Americas problem. The other isn't. Pretty simple really.

Aye, about as brave as all of the people who are so worried about the evil Muslim extremists that they talk about it on a video game website. They're equally brave, I'd say.

I think it's time to put this one to bed folks. This has gone way off topic and has devolved into circular arguments and not much discussion.