So the full Forza Horizon 3 car list is out. Once again, no Porsche and not even some tuned/derived from the likes of RUF to give us some of that very specific handling from the 911 (and similar) designs. We all knew it was coming (even if there have been some Porsches spotted in the footage they've put out already) because EA have a deal so MS have to pay extra for the license so they lock the cars behind an expansion pack that's not included in the Season Pass/Ultimate edition (where I am, that's a $105 digital purchase plus expect to find $20 for the expansion).

That's not to say there aren't enough cars on the list. 370 cars is a lot (FH2 started out just over 200 and even with all the DLCs/expansions never got past 330) and there's variety here and there (even if some of them are several models that only petrol-heads will care about having the choice between).

But another of the VW Group's brands is missing from the list entirely and it's the actual VWs. Buying Forza Horizon 3 gives you cars from the VW Groups. Audi, Bentley, Bugatti, & Lamborghini are all represented (ok, only the one Bentley). But no Volkswagens, at all. Not a sausage. No Skoda either but ye, can't say that budget-VW being missing (even if there might be some historical reason for including older models) will be the end of the world - AFAIK they've never been in any Forza game. But Seat is also missing (another VW Group brand/manufacturer) and that seems a shame as they've had a car or two in previous games.

So of the 8 major VW Group brands, only 4 of them are included. And there used to be plenty of VWs in older games, right up to Forza 6 having lots of them (all modelled and ready to import).

Is this the start of the Porsche model (buy the game for full price, pay for a season pass to get the monthly car packs, and pay a 3rd time for the expansion to get any cars from a beloved manufacturer as part of a premium expansion) being expanded to even more manufacturers? Will there be a $20 VW pack we're expected to buy in 2017 to add 10 cars to the game that have mostly already been modelled for a previous game?

I'm not saying we need to get rid of real brands from games or that it was all perfect back in the RUF days of working around licensing issues, but this is starting to get a bit disheartening. When the game is $60 just for a download code (no shipping and manufacturing cost) with that going up to $100+ for getting some cars but not others (and no actual fancy bonus like a car model for your shelf - as you used to get for paying for a collector's edition with a physical copy of the game) and then we're still missing major manufacturers that may later turn up for $20 a piece. At what point are we looking at the long slow slippery slope to Train Simulator levels of profiteering?

I've always justified in my mind that Forza is my favorite game and $150 a year to play it is worth it to me. I don't expect it to be that way for most people. But, I NEVER want to turn on that game and see a track or area, or car I can't have.

I'm a racing game guy, not a car guy, so I have a different perspective than you. That said, as you noted the number of cars has increased, not decreased, so it's a little odd to claim that they're giving us less than they used to. They're giving us more, just different. I would also add that you don't need all the cars to enjoy the game (or at least I don't.) Over the course of a Horizon campaign I probably drive 40-50 cars, and probably 10-15 as my "main" default car. That's less than 20% of the roster, and I doubt there are many people who drive 50% of the roster or more over the course of the game.

More importantly, I don't think you NEED to buy all the DLC. I've bought the season pass in the past and it was kind of a waste. I didn't find time to drive all those cars. I bought the Porsche expansion for $10 and it came with some additional bucket list challenges, which was cool, and given that it added a major brand it added value, but I would have gotten more than my money's worth out of the game without it.

My point is that given how big the roster is you can just buy the DLC cars that you really want or are interested in, you don't have to buy every single car in the game to get the "full" experience, especially given how huge the default roster is.

I don't think DLC like this is profiteering because it's not meant for you to buy everything. It offers a huge main game and some DLC for people who like specific cars or manufacturers. I also don't think Train Simulator is particularly profiteering either. That game has an unbelievable amount of content, and it's not intended for any one person to buy all of it, you buy the stuff you particularly want.

Now maybe if you're a serious gearhead you want all of it, and then you're paying a lot, but you're getting a truly enormous roster for your money.

Never felt like I didn't have more than enough options in a Forza Horizons game without buying DLC. What's more, at the trickling rate they doled out credits in Horizons 2, they had too many.

I've put over 200 hours into Forza Horizon 2 and, to this day, I still haven't driven all of the cars. I think keeping a handful behind as DLC will probably work out okay.

Yes, you can just avoid the DLC (and pay $60 for a game that, via the menus, will slowly be expanded to point to many things that are in the game but not in your game - this is not an accident of UI design) but my point was this is now the second big manufacturer to leave the Forza series and possibly be locked behind a premium expansion paywall that the season pass (or $100+ 'Ultimate' edition) will likely (going by previous games) not cover. I do generally avoid the DLCs as it seems bad value compared to the selection of cars in each base game (and you generally never run out of new cars to try and tune) with the exception of the original Horizon (with that Rally expansion being included in the season pass so making it an ok offering, especially when it was in a sale).

But this isn't just that you're opting to either pay for the grab-bag of extra cars each month or not on top of the lots of cars of all types already in the game.

Every VW is now gone. Just like every Porsche has been gone for several iterations now. There are no -a-likes such as the RUFs in there to make up for it and provide a similar experience (which got dropped from the series when they made the deal to add back Porsche as premium expansions outside of the season pass content). If you want something that handles like a Porsche then your selection is zero cars unless you buy the pack that will eventually add them to the game months down the line. And now we're looking at what could potentially be the same thing for VW - maybe less of a unique handling experience but I'm sure I'm not the only one who has a soft spot for Golfs due to personal experience and enjoys what VW brings that isn't quite the same as anything else in the game.

When I'm looking forward to a game, I really don't want to have to think about how that $100 premium edition of the game actually isn't and will still miss out on significant gameplay experiences (all VW and Porsche cars is a significant experience in a driving game). Juggling in uncertainty of future (for pay) modifications to the game that actually complete and balance the roster to where they'd want it to be at launch and will, if I don't buy, plaster the UI with advert/notifications that I should buy something to unlock this menu item.

Sure, the era of buying $60 games and that being it is maybe over, that only later would an expansion happen and nothing in the $60 experience would ever reference that future potential. But we're seeing new holes being carved out of Forza where well-populated manufacturer rosters used to be. We're seeing a model where even the pay-up-front season pass model of purchase doesn't actually buy you all that content when it arrives. If it really was something where they just wanted to give us the option of getting more if we wanted to pay, there'd be 3 Porsches in the base game and one of the monthly packs to add in a load more. But there are exactly none. That's the key difference here. That and the additions being not covered by the season pass. It feels gross and makes me less excited for the new game (which so far looks really good otherwise).

When it was one major manufacturer being pulled from the series and we knew the EA licensing shenanigans behind it then it was a bummer (especially the loss of RUF cars) but it was something to adapt to. If this is the second major manufacturer going the same way, it's part of a trend to be pushed back against unless we're happy to get a future where we buy a $60 set of tracks or an open world and are then expected to buy piecemeal most of the cars we want to race on them. Forza 6 Apex (not a knock on that beta, it's free so this is justified there) is a great indication of how a limited roster can quickly become too limited and leave you bored of the same cars or venturing into something you don't particularly enjoy just because it's not one of the cars you've already driven to death.

VW has always being weird about there Car Brands especially Porsche. Witch is a PIA to get in your game and not worth it IMO, for most of there cars look like 911's :P