Well, that was uncomfortable *spoilers*

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#1 Edited by Yummylee (21305 posts) -

Whoo boy... I'm sure many who've already made it that far will have already predicted this would involve the torture sequence. I just now finished that particular mission and, well, I feel fucking rotten. I had already noticed a few posts on the boards here and there referencing a torture sequence, so when it came it didn't necessarily surprise me. But still... man, Rockstar actually put in an interactive torture sequence, complete with a set of toys to choose from.

I decided to go with the wrench first, since out of the options available that seemed to be the most.. humane. That is until Trevor fucking bursts the guy's balls with the damn thing! Gah, and the pliers! Shitting Hell, as soon as I picked that one up I instantaneously knew of my mistake. As soon as the game asked me to grab a hold of a tooth, I was pressing every other button in the hope that I could back out of it. Since no such option existed unfortunately, I then grabbed it, and then actually felt like turning the damn game off when it wanted me rotate the right analogue to pull the thing out. Teeth are most definitely a weakness of mine; nightmares involving my teeth falling out have been pretty common for me (and many others, I'm to believe) over the past few years, and having to rip one out--complete with blood spray and begging, which then leads to cries of agony--was just awful. Never has a game made me feel this guilty.

After that I went back to the wrench because... well, again, it seemed the most acceptable. Trevor then broke the guy's arm. My final act to get all the information I needed was by electrocuting the guy via his nipples, which after everything before it barely elicited a reaction. For as horrible an act as that is, it felt like I had already done so much that what's a small electric shock... Rather that than another tooth.

I was at least happy to see Trevor didn't kill the poor sod once it was over, but dumping him at the airport with a broken arm and slurring all over the place, forcing him to abandon his family at that, didn't exactly leave me feeling like I had redeemed myself. Which I'm sure was intentional, as giving him any more assistance would have no doubt seemed out of character,

Anywhoo, I'm not trying to start some sort of crusade against Rockstar or anything like that. After all, Trevor is truly an absolute piece of shit, and GTA games aren't exactly rife with happy pleasantries. But still, I can't remember ever feeling this ugly during any of their prior games. I know I was extremely remorseful when I went down the path that resulted in Roman getting shot in GTAIV -- so much so that I cowardly reloaded my save to take the other option, after Mallorie revealed that she was pregnant during one of the post-game phone calls. That's the only other occasion that seems comparable from what I can remember in any case.

I'm sure I'll get past it soon enough, and it's not like I'm going to 'take a stand' and stop playing or what have you. Still, that shit got to me, and I wanted to share. So, on that note, how did everyone else handle the torture scene? Which items did you use ect.,

Oh, and I hope to God that smug FIB prick gets his... But don't tell me anywhoo :P

#2 Edited by DonutFever (3550 posts) -

It was definitely hard to watch, but Trevor's speech in the car afterwards has probably been one of the best parts of the game.

I haven't done it yet, watched my brother play it, he used the wrench on his knee twice, pliers on his teeth, and worst of all gasboarded him.

Writing that out makes me realize my brother might need therapy.

#3 Edited by bigjeffrey (4821 posts) -

Is it weird that i did not really feel anything, even though i crushed the dude's nuts with a wrench?

#4 Edited by Yummylee (21305 posts) -

Is it weird that i did not really feel anything, even though i crushed the dude's nuts with a wrench?

...Maybe just a little.

#5 Edited by Klei (1768 posts) -

I get you, TC, but I feel like that... sort of fit Trevor's personality. He's a psychopath. Although I hate torture scenes in games, this one wasn't all that bad, especially since the way the tortured guy behaves. He just sobs in a kinda funny way. If he had screamed for his life, though, it would have been fucking disturbing.

#6 Edited by DJJoeJoe (1321 posts) -

Well I'm pretty sure it's not meant to be soothing to anyone, it's supposed to be a big deal and make you uncomfortable. it also fills in more of Trevor's mental state, how sociopathic or narcissistic he seems to be when he expresses remorse for something afterwards but absolutely none for the actual act of torturing the guy. Trevor is devoid of that healthy connection to empathy, and only feels something that looks like remorse when it affects his own rules or codes in his head that he deems to be the right ones to follow, in that situation the simple act of being told to do something seems to erk him into keeping the guy alive. Later on (after the credits) there's some more direct and juicy bits that will further clear up why he's broken... here's a hint though, usually what breaks a person is their parents.

#7 Edited by Yummylee (21305 posts) -
@klei said:

I get you, TC, but I feel like that... sort of fit Trevor's personality. He's a psychopath. Although I hate torture scenes in games, this one wasn't all that bad, especially since the way the tortured guy behaves. He just sobs in a kinda funny way. If he had screamed for his life, though, it would have been fucking disturbing.

Really? I mean MGS3's incredibly lengthy torture scene is definitely a 'standout' amongst torture scenes in video games, but I think GTAV's is especially notable because it's interactive. I don't recall that I've ever played an interactive torture scene before--or my memory is failing me--and that's definitely why it was so shocking for me. I don't doubt that there's potentially even more gruesome scenes out there, but I certainly haven't played them... I wouldn't think.

I also perfectly understand that it suits the character, and I need to stress that I'm not against it being in here. The fact that it could get a reaction out of me like this should probably be commendable even. In my own way I guess I'm congratulating Rockstar for a job well done...

#8 Edited by Pr1mus (3825 posts) -

To me this means that the sequence was really well done if it got to you like that. It's definitely not supposed to be fun that's for sure.

I can't say it got to me quite like this. Partly because it didn't involve blades. Because fuck blades, knifes, cuts and what have you. It didn't get me the same way Snake being tortured by Volgin in MGS3 and that one wasn't even interactive.

#9 Posted by DharmaBum (1048 posts) -
#10 Posted by OGinOR (314 posts) -

It was...hard. And every time they cut back for more intel, it only got harder...I found myself hoping it would be the last time...and then, I was doing it again. I was very happy when the game let me stop...and then happier to take the guy away alive.

#11 Posted by Milkman (16543 posts) -

The whole thing was very strange to me. I haven't finished the game yet but I'm pretty sure that Trevor is never going to get any kind of comeuppance for his actions. I guess I'm suppose to hate Trevor but that kind of flies in the face of the my actions when the whole game is pretty much in service of his own personal gain. It's not like I can just stop playing as Trevor and cut him off from the heist money or something. It's something worth examining once I'm done with the game but if I finish it and Trevor is still the same "crazy for crazy's sake" guy, that feels like a failure on Rockstar's part.

#12 Edited by Roboculus92 (488 posts) -

I didn't really think the scene was that bad (compared to some other torture scenes I've seen in tv/movies). I mean, don't get me wrong, torturing is bad and I definitely don't endorse that but in this case, it seemed in line with Trevor's character. I mean sure, having it be interactive definitely adds another level of creepiness but I still don't think it was that bad. Maybe I'm just numb to horrible shit at this point.....But yeah, if you felt bad then that was probably the point since Trevor himself even mentions afterwards how torturing is not an effective means of getting information so I guess this is supposed to be a criticism/satire of torture. How effective it is at that, you'll have to judge for yourself.

#13 Posted by Pr1mus (3825 posts) -

@milkman: They never really tone down the crazy in Trevor's behavior but he definitely has an interesting arc that happens in the later moments of the game.

#14 Edited by Clonedzero (4101 posts) -

I wasn't super disturbed by it, but it was still a pretty uncomfortable scene. Also my controllers are pretty old and the sticks are a bit loose, for normal gameplay they work fine, sometimes drift to a side but easily corrected, but the rotating stuff doesnt work so well. So i was cranking on his tooth for a good two minutes before i got the sucker out.

#15 Posted by MethodMan008 (807 posts) -

Wasn't disturbed by it at all.. But was totally disturbed by Trevors intro and one of Floyds scenes.

#16 Posted by Demoskinos (14596 posts) -

So yeah, just wait until Trevor and Deborah get to meet. That scene goes from having a slightly comical undertone to fucking DARK on a fucking dime.

#17 Edited by Bocam (3683 posts) -

I thought it was going to be a lot worse with the way people were reacting to it.

#18 Posted by shivermetimbers (763 posts) -

I just removed his teeth and electrocuted him once. He still has his manhood and can still make another family. He'll be okay.

...Okay, dark humor aside, Trevor at least doesn't pretend to justify his actions, which kinda makes him the best character to play as. While both Franklin and Michael think they're being at least reasonable, which isn't true, Trevor is smart enough to know that he's a sociopath without shame. Guilt and regret are not on his agenda. So instead of trying to "protect" his family or trying to make it big, Trevor just takes care of business, which actually makes him more morally correct than someone trying to make excuses for their behavior.

#19 Edited by Missacre (566 posts) -

I watched a friend play that part, and it didn't really bother me at all. I can't say I'm surprised much by this kind of stuff anymore, I've seen it so many times in movies and shows, that I've been pretty much numbed to all of it. Death and torture in media don't faze me in the least, because in the back of my mind, I know it's all made up. Now, watching something that actually happened, that affects me.

#20 Edited by Akyho (1587 posts) -

Hey all the dude had to do was speak. I keep apply force and takeing it off, such as with the tooth I just held it for a while seeing if he would talk clamped on his tooth waited a bit and just slowly did it waiting for him to talk. He didnt talk so out comes the tooth.

Which I feel bad about....not the pain or the effort. No....I just made it harder to make out the guy was saying! I did feel like an idiot when I poured the water over his clothed face...since he said "no no no...ill drown I got blood in my mouth" and I go "of course....damn I want to stop I might kill him."

Electrocution I keep going on and off to see if he will talk also as to not send his heart too high incase he died.

I only whacked his side with the wrench once.

But yeah dosnt affect me I was given a job and I was going to do the job. What the differance to past torture or killing? But yes a very dark moment after that at floyds and debras apartment is what disturbed me more.

#21 Posted by Clonedzero (4101 posts) -

All this being said, Trevor is so far the best character of the year

#22 Posted by ShadowConqueror (3050 posts) -

I really didn't think it was that bad.

#23 Posted by I_Stay_Puft (3063 posts) -

Was there suppose to be 3 torture sequences during that mission? I wonder cause when you'reable to snipe the dude I heard the guy I was with saying we need more info on the target and then I just guessed and shot a random dude who happened to be it.

#24 Edited by RonGalaxy (2926 posts) -

Well, it didnt have the same effect on me that the last of us had (wont say specifics, go play the game), but it was definitely way over the top for no good reason. I guess it's good to see games can go farther than they ever could in the past, but that scene was completely unnecessary. At least they could have made it where you could switch out of trevors perspective, but instead they forced it on the player... Definitely a dumb move by rockstar

#25 Posted by Missacre (566 posts) -

Well, it didnt have the same effect on me that the last of us had (wont say specifics, go play the game), but it was definitely way over the top for no good reason. I guess it's good to see games can go farther than they ever could in the past, but that scene was completely unnecessary. At least they could have made it where you could switch out of trevors perspective, but instead they forced it on the player... Definitely a dumb move by rockstar

I don't see how it's a dumb move. It shows a good perspective on Trevor and what kind of person he really is. I don't really see how it was "unnecessary". Besides, this is GTA, what did you expect? An interrogation without pain? Also, you could switch out of Trevor's perspective, over to Michael's.

#26 Posted by Krullban (1024 posts) -

It's just a game. I have a difficult time feeling uncomfortable from something that isn't real.

#27 Posted by RubberBabyBuggyBumpers (714 posts) -

i laughed my fucking ass off during that segment. i loved it!

#28 Edited by Yummylee (21305 posts) -

I just removed his teeth and electrocuted him once. He still has his manhood and can still make another family. He'll be okay.

...Okay, dark humor aside, Trevor at least doesn't pretend to justify his actions, which kinda makes him the best character to play as. While both Franklin and Michael think they're being at least reasonable, which isn't true, Trevor is smart enough to know that he's a sociopath without shame. Guilt and regret are not on his agenda. So instead of trying to "protect" his family or trying to make it big, Trevor just takes care of business, which actually makes him more morally correct than someone trying to make excuses for their behavior.

Absolutely. He's complete aware of what a monster he is and doesn't try to moralise it with reasons pertaining to a family or whatever. He's basically this generation's Tommy Vercetti, though of course Trevor has more depth to him than 'angry impulsive mobster'.

I'm convinced that it was intentionally disturbing and out of place compared to other things you can do in the game, as a social commentary on America's use of torture.

Just read this article by Tom Chick which delves into it:

http://www.quartertothree.com/fp/2013/09/21/grand-theft-auto-v-relevant-story-torture-since-zero-dark-thirty/

Yeah, with the dialogue on the way to the airport, I assumed this was meant to serve some sort commentary on the actual concept of torture, and Chick's article definitely reinforces that.

#29 Edited by Yummylee (21305 posts) -
@krullban said:

It's just a game. I have a difficult time feeling uncomfortable from something that isn't real.

#30 Posted by MiniPato (2721 posts) -

So wait, the wrench does different thing? I cringed when Trevor took the big ass wrench to the guy's kneecap. Anytime anyone's knee's get fucked with, real or not, I cringe.

I think you can probably cut the torture scene short if you just shoot any random dude. The FIB, or at least Haines, certainly doesn't care about innocents dying if it fits their agenda. Haven't tried it myself though.

#31 Posted by Capum15 (4827 posts) -

I did one of each and jesus christ. I couldn't look at the screen during the pliers part, and I missed the wrench shot to the crotch, though I saw the kneecap. Electricity wasn't that bad, nor was the waterboarding, compared to the fucking pliers.

It was pretty brutal.

#32 Posted by Nekroskop (2786 posts) -

It's just Rockstar shitting in the face of people who think torture is an effective means of interrogation. Social commentary like everything else in the game.

Brutal, but it's far from the worse I've seen in a video game.

#33 Posted by FancySoapsMan (5808 posts) -

Yeah... I just electrocuted the guy because it seemed like the leas graphic option.

#34 Edited by gaminghooligan (1424 posts) -

I didn't know you could just electrocute the poor guy the whole time or I would have. Pulling the teeth, I really had to look away, it was just too much for me. That being said I think it does serve the purpose of making the player really hate Steve Haines (as if we needed more of a reason).

#35 Edited by Jothel (914 posts) -

When I realised what I had to do, I said "nope", paused the game and made some lunch and came back later on... was quite unpleasant.

#36 Edited by charlie_victor_bravo (948 posts) -

What? No glass to the mouth followed by punches?

I watched dude playing Trevor's part and it made me feel uncomfortable. But I think that is the whole point of the scene (and also make clear why someone would want to distance himself from him).

#37 Posted by CaLe (3916 posts) -

I felt bad during the torture sequence but then all those feelings immediately disappeared as Trevor was taking him to the airport afterwards.

Online
#38 Edited by Stackboy (483 posts) -

I played this mission just last night and I don't understand why this is blowing up across the internet. There are far worse scenes in movies and people don't make a big deal about that. I really feel like a lot of gamers and gaming websites are blowing this up just for the sake of CONTROVERSY and something to talk about.

#39 Posted by SunBroZak (1034 posts) -

It's a weird scene. Rockstar doesn't go far enough with it to the point where the characters look like monsters. Instead, especially after Trevor's comments following the sequence, it just makes them look like scumbags. Which in the world of GTA, is fitting. GTA V is full of bad people, but not really scary people. True, Trevor is a psychopath, but the torture scene is as far as we go in making him look like a monster, and it doesn't do a great job in my opinion. If Rockstar had went all-out, and truly made the scene horrifying at which point you really had to force yourself to do the scene, then I would have come away from it with the knowledge that Trevor is to be feared. But that would probably go against the point of the game, because despite the bad things you do, that game is meant to be fun.

#40 Edited by MooseyMcMan (10576 posts) -

...

I thought it was kind of fun, and maybe a little funny?

...

I'm a bad person.

I also feel like torturing one dude for a few minutes isn't anywhere near as bad as killing dozens of people, even if they are armed and attacking the player character.

Moderator
#41 Edited by mrfluke (5103 posts) -

@stackboy said:

I played this mission just last night and I don't understand why this is blowing up across the internet. There are far worse scenes in movies and people don't make a big deal about that. I really feel like a lot of gamers and gaming websites are blowing this up just for the sake of CONTROVERSY and something to talk about.

i think im with you, i played through that scene, and i dunno, i cringed a little bit when i pulled the tooth, but other than that, that whole thing was meh.

So yeah, just wait until Trevor and Deborah get to meet. That scene goes from having a slightly comical undertone to fucking DARK on a fucking dime.

now this yea, that scene your talking about was more uncomfortable than the torture.

#42 Edited by Nightriff (4936 posts) -

I thought it was kinda dumb and pointless. Wasn't sure if they were going for humor or shock value, either way it missed its mark with me. It was a poorly constructed part of the mission, that boiled down to shoot the brown dude with a beard smoking.

#43 Posted by D0tti (786 posts) -

@krullban said:

It's just a game. I have a difficult time feeling uncomfortable from something that isn't real.

Yeah pretty much how I felt. I actually laughed when he gave that speech afterwards.

#44 Posted by Jams (2960 posts) -

I only used the electricity and water board. As much as I hated doing it (I also tried to switch characters) I found those two to be the ones least damaging. There's nothing good that can come from pliers.

#45 Posted by believer258 (11686 posts) -

It's just Rockstar shitting in the face of people who think torture is an effective means of interrogation. Social commentary like everything else in the game.

Brutal, but it's far from the worse I've seen in a video game.

Which would be a fine excuse if he didn't give you useful information. I haven't played very far past this part, though, so maybe he actually did give you bad information.

How the hell was that guy walking after you swung a giant wrench into his balls?

...

I thought it was kind of fun, and maybe a little funny?

...

I'm a bad person.

I also feel like torturing one dude for a few minutes isn't anywhere near as bad as killing dozens of people, even if they are armed and attacking the player character.

I also thought about this on the way to the airport. Let's make a short list, shall we? In this game so far, I've:

-Run over countless innocent pedestrians

-Killed many policeman

-Killed many security guards while breaking out of a morgue-like place.

-Punched many people on the street for no reason.

-Killed gang members.

-Killed jurors just to put the stock market in my favor.

-...and more.

I don't think I can do all that and then turn off the game because I was offended by a sequence where I was asked to do interactive torture, especially knowing that the guy walks... er, hobbles away.

#46 Edited by Yummylee (21305 posts) -
@stackboy said:

I played this mission just last night and I don't understand why this is blowing up across the internet. There are far worse scenes in movies and people don't make a big deal about that. I really feel like a lot of gamers and gaming websites are blowing this up just for the sake of CONTROVERSY and something to talk about.

Yup. It was all for dem clicks, baby. You've uncovered my nefarious scheme!

Just raking in the dough right now

...

@believer258 said:

@mooseymcman said:

...

I thought it was kind of fun, and maybe a little funny?

...

I'm a bad person.

I also feel like torturing one dude for a few minutes isn't anywhere near as bad as killing dozens of people, even if they are armed and attacking the player character.

I also thought about this on the way to the airport. Let's make a short list, shall we? In this game so far, I've:

-Run over countless innocent pedestrians

-Killed many policeman

-Killed many security guards while breaking out of a morgue-like place.

-Punched many people on the street for no reason.

-Killed gang members.

-Killed jurors just to put the stock market in my favor.

-...and more.

I don't think I can do all that and then turn off the game because I was offended by a sequence where I was asked to do interactive torture, especially knowing that the guy walks... er, hobbles away.

Because I wasn't ripping the teeth out of all of the random pedestrians/police officers in the game. Plus, it's a lot more personal during the torture scene, whereas when it comes to everywhere else in the game it's usually just random mayhem, and killing someone is usually the result of a quick shot to the head.

#47 Posted by Ramone (2960 posts) -

That sequence is pretty fucked up. I also don't like how theywriters try to absolve Trevor of any guilt by giving him that totally out of place redemptive arc at the end of the mission. In fact, I don't like a lot of things about Trevor.

#48 Posted by Strife777 (1504 posts) -

I honestly didn't think it was THAT bad. The teeth pulling definitely felt gnarly. I'm not trying to act tough or anything, I winced once or twice. I just wouldn't call it controversial or whatever.

#49 Edited by MooseyMcMan (10576 posts) -

@believer258: You may have missed it already, but pay CLOSE attention to the Weazel News broadcast right after doing the mission with the torture scene. It may answer your question about the quality of the info.

Spoiler if you missed it: The info was bad, the guy Michael shot was a philanthropist.

Edit: Back to my response to the scene, having a button prompt to waterboard just seemed really funny to me. Not in a "waterboarding is funny" sense, more that RockStar actually made a game where you can waterboard someone, and to do so, there is a button prompt to do so that's something like "Hold R1 to waterboard."

Moderator
#50 Edited by Yummylee (21305 posts) -
@ramone said:

That sequence is pretty fucked up. I also don't like how theywriters try to absolve Trevor of any guilt by giving him that totally out of place redemptive arc at the end of the mission. In fact, I don't like a lot of things about Trevor.

I don't think that was to absolve him of his guilt. I mean, he still admits that he himself enjoys torture, and the only reason he even let the guy go was to spite Steve Haines, not as a last minute act of kindness. If anything it was to help prove how self-aware and surprisingly intelligent Trevor is, and how even if he enjoys murder and carnage, he's sane enough to recognise that Governments shouldn't be pulling themselves down to his level.

@mooseymcman I never did the waterboarding. Because of the canister, I had assumed that it had something to do with setting the guy on fire or something, so I decided against it...

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