SBE13: Limbo, and why it's overrated.

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#101 Edited by demontium (4707 posts) -
@WilliamRLBaker said:
"so its why you dont like the game, not why its overated...because not a single thing you posted proves its overated because every thing you posted is opinion. "     
 

@gogobomb said:

"you are so fucking stupid, how does price affect the rating of the game? so your saying that if galaxy 2 was $100 that it should be given a 1/5? you are a god damn retard. and also, a game dosent need a narrative, hd, or color to be good, and you say that the art style is lazy, ok ya sure it could be thought of that way but its unique and original. this game is underrated, not overrated, and you seem to think that because its hard its bad, well hard isnt always a bad thing "


You did not read the whole thing. I never said if galaxy 2 was 100 bucks it should get a 1/5, and I also said limbo is still worthwhile experience. 
 
Is it so original to have a black and white backdrop? Many games have already done that, and its not original.  
  
The game is overrated because everyone thinks the artstyle is so original and that it looks so good, meanwhile not mentioning how short it is, how it lacks good controls in jumping, how its overpriced, how it re-uses lots of old game assests. Its a good game, its just not close to 5 star / 9.0 material.
#102 Posted by demontium (4707 posts) -
@Skitch said:
" @haggis said:
" @Skitch:  Some kind of composed soundtrack would have been beneficial, in my opinion. "
I'm still saying that this game does have one, albiet a highly incidental score.  As for your other points, I'll agree to disagree, as this is among one of the more cohesively designed experiences that I've had for a while, which it benefits from being so focused in its approach from my impression of it. "
No matter what anyone says, sound always adds mood.
#103 Posted by OwnlyUzinWonHan (1478 posts) -

RAH RAH RAH disagree RAH RAH RAH something stupid RAH RA RAH you're dumb.
Seriously guys, it's his opinion about a video game, calm down.

#104 Posted by demontium (4707 posts) -
@OwnlyUzinWonHan said:
" RAH RAH RAH disagree RAH RAH RAH something stupid RAH RA RAH you're dumb. Seriously guys, it's his opinion about a video game, calm down. "  
Yeah people are getting a little over-zealous about this whole thing. I am fine with simple disagreement and argument - I even encourage it. 
 
Name calling, trolling, and mindless pictures are a problem.
#105 Posted by OneManX (1676 posts) -

Shadow of the Colossus had little to no story and Limbo has the similar feel. 
 
You basically wake up and the game starts. I think Limbo is one of those games were people will 'get' it and love it or 'get' it and still not like it.

#106 Posted by Meowayne (6084 posts) -
@OneManX said:
" Shadow of the Colossus had little to no story "
There is a difference between plot (A happens, then B happens, then C happens) and story (how is the connection between A and B relevant, how is it made relevant, what props, worlds, images and feelings are used to convey this information, how is the one the story is told to involved).
Games like Shadow of the Colossus, or Portal, or Limbo now, may not have an elaborate plot (like, say, Halo), but do a magnificent job at telling what they want to tell.
 
#107 Edited by b33 (413 posts) -

so... when the price lowers it should have a 6 stars review? 
if you think it's too expensive, buy it when it's cheaper

#108 Posted by Bionicicide (1213 posts) -
@Meowayne said:
" @OneManX said:
" Shadow of the Colossus had little to no story "
There is a difference between plot (A happens, then B happens, then C happens) and story (how is the connection between A and B relevant, how is it made relevant, what props, worlds, images and feelings are used to convey this information, how is the one the story is told to involved). Games like Shadow of the Colossus, or Portal, or Limbo now, may not have an elaborate plot (like, say, Halo), but do a magnificent job at telling what they want to tell.   "
Limbo is all interpretation unlike Portal (can't speak to Shadow of the Colossus).
#109 Posted by OneManX (1676 posts) -
@Meowayne said:
" @OneManX said:
" Shadow of the Colossus had little to no story "
There is a difference between plot (A happens, then B happens, then C happens) and story (how is the connection between A and B relevant, how is it made relevant, what props, worlds, images and feelings are used to convey this information, how is the one the story is told to involved). Games like Shadow of the Colossus, or Portal, or Limbo now, may not have an elaborate plot (like, say, Halo), but do a magnificent job at telling what they want to tell.   "
I meant to say Narrative (sorry wrote that like 5 in the morning) The game doesn't really tell you what is going on, and that, to me, add to the appeal. 
#110 Posted by demontium (4707 posts) -
@b33 said:
" so... when the price lowers it should have a 6 stars review? if you think it's too expensive, buy it when it's cheaper "
This is the last time I am addressing this: the review is congruent with the score, but at that price it cannot be that overrated. 
 
Also, since no one addressed the part after the score to cost ratio, with some exceptions, I am pretty fed up with people regurgitating the same arguments over and over again without looking at my previous answer.
#111 Posted by Dad_Is_A_Zombie (1225 posts) -
@ThatFrood said:
" It's not on par with Braid, but it's still a good game. "
I would agree with this. I enjoyed Limbo and don't regret the $15 price for it but it certainly does not merit a perfect score. If anyone is on the fence with Limbo and has never played Braid, I would say grab Braid. Better game, less money.
#112 Posted by demontium (4707 posts) -
@Dad_Is_A_Zombie said:
" @ThatFrood said:
" It's not on par with Braid, but it's still a good game. "
I would agree with this. I enjoyed Limbo and don't regret the $15 price for it but it certainly does not merit a perfect score. If anyone is on the fence with Limbo and has never played Braid, I would say grab Braid. Better game, less money. "
Yeah I liked braid more.  
I don't regret the $15 I spent on limbo either (but that doesn't mean they had to price it that high).
#113 Posted by JohnnyMcmillen (156 posts) -

I agree, Limbo is such a better game to watch than it is to play. For me, the problem with it isn't that its too much money or that it's not long enough. It's that if you break it down into it's core features; it's lacking. The game play of continuous trail and error and simple platforming isn't really enough to carry game without a story. 
 
I'm sorry, but people have been breaking out statements like " Price does not determine quality." 
But I say that an artstyle doesn't determine quality. Most 'arty' games, present a story or game mechanics in really interesting ways which compliments the unusual artstyle. In a game where the isn't any interesting game mechanics and their is no story, all I felt I was paying for was a pretty face. 
 
And as pretty as Limbo is, it's just not a good game in my eyes, and neither is it a good story. Unfortunately this is not the bandwagon product for me.

#114 Posted by ectoplasma (960 posts) -
@demontium said:
" @TheBooya said:
" @demontium said:
" Cheap, lazy and overrated. "
I have no problem with you questioning the value of the game (it's your opinion) or whether you think it's overrated or not. What I do have a problem with is you accusing the developers of being 'lazy'. These guys busted their asses for 3 years, flew around the world multiple times begging, pleading publishers to sign them so they could turn their vision into a game that we can all enjoy.  Calling developers 'lazy' is straight up ignorant, man. Have an opinion all day long, but don't be a jerk about it. "
Really? No its not, sure in regards to actually getting the product to being published I will give them props, but that has nothing to do with the game THEY made. THEY made the game colorless, with little animation and no music and so on. THEY did that, it had nothing to do with them going around the world begging for someone to publish them. 
 
@Meowayne said:
" Hey yeah that's cool. I bought Limbo and Mass Effect at about the same price and I feel that the money was much better spent with Limbo. So cool story bro and all that.   There is rarely a sound design as good as Limbo's. So coming here and saying "there's like little music and shit" is just silly.  "
Really, you think limbo is better than mass effect even at a lower price?  Well thats just a difference in opinion I guess, you loss for wanting less i guess, and saying there is no music is just a fact. "
This is just pro trolling.
#115 Posted by Meowayne (6084 posts) -

Having now seen it to the end, I will say that the last part drags down the experience several degrees because the world isn't as imaginative and the puzzles are much less fun to figure out, mostly because there are too many "do the exact right thing  at the exact same time"-physics puzzles, something which is mostly lacking from the first half. The awesome way in which, say, the spider or the "natives" are set in scene and told interactively is just missing from the second half of the game, and that's a bummer. 
 
Still, I cannot see how anyone could say that $15 is "too much" for this experience, or that it is "overrated", or that anyone in the team did a bad job.

#116 Posted by OneManX (1676 posts) -

A downloadable game getting this much attention, even though Starcraft 2 was just released... it must of been doing SOMETHING right.

#117 Posted by dbz1995 (4789 posts) -
@demontium said:
" @Skitch said:
" @haggis said:
" @Skitch:  Some kind of composed soundtrack would have been beneficial, in my opinion. "
I'm still saying that this game does have one, albiet a highly incidental score.  As for your other points, I'll agree to disagree, as this is among one of the more cohesively designed experiences that I've had for a while, which it benefits from being so focused in its approach from my impression of it. "
No matter what anyone says, sound always adds mood. "
I agree with you, sound always adds mood. As does no sound.
#118 Posted by Turbo_Toaster (954 posts) -

$15 for a 3 hour game is perfectly cromulent, most XBLA games are gunning for that price point anyway these days. A perfect score doesn't mean it needs to be some epic, giant game like Mario Galaxy 2. It just has to be effective in everything it's trying to achieve, and it does that which merits the score.

#119 Posted by demontium (4707 posts) -
@dbz1995 said:
" @demontium said:
" @Skitch said:
" @haggis said:
" @Skitch:  Some kind of composed soundtrack would have been beneficial, in my opinion. "
I'm still saying that this game does have one, albiet a highly incidental score.  As for your other points, I'll agree to disagree, as this is among one of the more cohesively designed experiences that I've had for a while, which it benefits from being so focused in its approach from my impression of it. "
No matter what anyone says, sound always adds mood. "
I agree with you, sound always adds mood. As does no sound. "
The absence of sound is good for certain moments of them game, and could have been implemented really well.
 
However, in their mission to be "artsy," they just had non to little sound the whole way through, not fully grasping how it is meant to contrast certain moments from the rest of the game.
 
@Turbo_Toaster said:
" $15 for a 3 hour game is perfectly cromulent, most XBLA games are gunning for that price point anyway these days. A perfect score doesn't mean it needs to be some epic, giant game like Mario Galaxy 2. It just has to be effective in everything it's trying to achieve, and it does that which merits the score. "
But a perfect score means it has little to no flaws - make no mistake being overpriced is a flaw - it is as good as games get as far as comparisons.
 
Limbo simply doesn't make that cut with its length, lack of any narrative, re-usage of art assests (a lot), and all of the other mentioned little but stacking flaws that hold the game back and that no one likes to mention.
#120 Posted by demontium (4707 posts) -
@OneManX said:
" A downloadable game getting this much attention, even though Starcraft 2 was just released... it must of been doing SOMETHING right. "
Yeah, Limbo does many things right. It is just highly overrated.
 
SC2 is so amazing regardless - don't let this cavalcade of xbox gamers fool you, SC2 already has over 1mil playing.
#121 Edited by haggis (1677 posts) -
@dbz1995: Sound only adds mood in context. Lack of sound in a game can add atmosphere, but only when surrounded by non-silence. Like white space in design, or a caesura in music. It only has meaning when surrounded by something other than silence. Limbo, however, is far too silent of a game. The ambient soundtrack isn't enough, leading toward a flat experience. I understand the direction they were going with the minimalist soundtrack, but there is such a thing as going too far. I think they did.
 
@demontium: I think you've struck the nail on the head, particularly with the re-use of art assets (which I haven't seen many people mention, but which I noticed while playing the game). The re-using is equally applicable to the puzzle structure as well, which at first is legitimately interesting, but soon falls into predictable patterns that make the game feel stale about halfway through.
#122 Posted by OneManX (1676 posts) -
@demontium said:
" @dbz1995 said:
" @demontium said:
" @Skitch said:
" @haggis said:
" @Skitch:  Some kind of composed soundtrack would have been beneficial, in my opinion. "
I'm still saying that this game does have one, albiet a highly incidental score.  As for your other points, I'll agree to disagree, as this is among one of the more cohesively designed experiences that I've had for a while, which it benefits from being so focused in its approach from my impression of it. "
No matter what anyone says, sound always adds mood. "
I agree with you, sound always adds mood. As does no sound. "
The absence of sound is good for certain moments of them game, and could have been implemented really well.
 
However, in their mission to be "artsy," they just had non to little sound the whole way through, not fully grasping how it is meant to contrast certain moments from the rest of the game.
 
@Turbo_Toaster said:
" $15 for a 3 hour game is perfectly cromulent, most XBLA games are gunning for that price point anyway these days. A perfect score doesn't mean it needs to be some epic, giant game like Mario Galaxy 2. It just has to be effective in everything it's trying to achieve, and it does that which merits the score. "
But a perfect score means it has little to no flaws - make no mistake being overpriced is a flaw - it is as good as games get as far as comparisons.  Limbo simply doesn't make that cut with its length, lack of any narrative, re-usage of art assests (a lot), and all of the other mentioned little but stacking flaws that hold the game back and that no one likes to mention. "
5/5 isn't  true perfection. Galaxy 2 got a 5/5 and that game was perfections it's positives outweighed it's negatives and then it went beyond that.  5/5 means, it has little to no flaws.
 
I think Limbo took advantage of it's artstyle and adding in tricky puzzles. The price is a hump, but its a hump that it can't get over b/c it's a part of the Summer of Arcade.  
 
Again I think people are too focused on the price tag, while people make the comparisons to movies and DVDs, I think if people get over the price tag they will see one of the truly unique games that came out this year. It's sparking discussion both positive and negative and people are talking about this game.
#123 Posted by demontium (4707 posts) -
@OneManX said:
" @demontium said:
" @dbz1995 said:
" @demontium said:
" @Skitch said:
" @haggis said:
" @Skitch:  Some kind of composed soundtrack would have been beneficial, in my opinion. "
I'm still saying that this game does have one, albiet a highly incidental score.  As for your other points, I'll agree to disagree, as this is among one of the more cohesively designed experiences that I've had for a while, which it benefits from being so focused in its approach from my impression of it. "
No matter what anyone says, sound always adds mood. "
I agree with you, sound always adds mood. As does no sound. "
The absence of sound is good for certain moments of them game, and could have been implemented really well.
 
However, in their mission to be "artsy," they just had non to little sound the whole way through, not fully grasping how it is meant to contrast certain moments from the rest of the game.
 
@Turbo_Toaster said:
" $15 for a 3 hour game is perfectly cromulent, most XBLA games are gunning for that price point anyway these days. A perfect score doesn't mean it needs to be some epic, giant game like Mario Galaxy 2. It just has to be effective in everything it's trying to achieve, and it does that which merits the score. "
But a perfect score means it has little to no flaws - make no mistake being overpriced is a flaw - it is as good as games get as far as comparisons.  Limbo simply doesn't make that cut with its length, lack of any narrative, re-usage of art assests (a lot), and all of the other mentioned little but stacking flaws that hold the game back and that no one likes to mention. "
5/5 isn't  true perfection. Galaxy 2 got a 5/5 and that game was perfections it's positives outweighed it's negatives and then it went beyond that.  5/5 means, it has little to no flaws. I think Limbo took advantage of it's artstyle and adding in tricky puzzles. The price is a hump, but its a hump that it can't get over b/c it's a part of the Summer of Arcade.   Again I think people are too focused on the price tag, while people make the comparisons to movies and DVDs, I think if people get over the price tag they will see one of the truly unique games that came out this year. It's sparking discussion both positive and negative and people are talking about this game. "
No mention of perfection exists. NO game is perfect - not even OOT.
#124 Posted by sagesebas (2003 posts) -
@demontium: Misspelling effective is lazy.
#125 Posted by Godzilla_Sushi (1084 posts) -
@demontium said:
"Cheap, lazy and overrated. Don't get me wrong, this is a good game,     
"
Well gosh, that's not a very good way to put it!
#126 Edited by demontium (4707 posts) -
@sagesebas said:

" @demontium: Misspelling effective is lazy. "

I was taught to use e in active voice and a in passive. 
 
EDIT: Like to effect, and that is affective.
#127 Edited by Sabata (823 posts) -

The thing that bugged me about Limbo wasn't really the $15 pricetag, but that the story (what little there was) had very little closure.  I get that some people like that, but I sure as shit don't.  At least give me SOMETHING more than... 
  
   SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.

 
I mean, at least Braid had some semblance of a story.  This game is too vague for my taste.    
#128 Edited by Meowayne (6084 posts) -
#129 Posted by sagesebas (2003 posts) -
@demontium: Effective is producing the intended or expected result: effective teaching methods; effective steps toward peace. While Affective is: of, caused by, or expressing emotion or feeling; emotional. 
 
Two completely different words with different meanings
#130 Posted by demontium (4707 posts) -
@sagesebas said:
" @demontium: Effective is producing the intended or expected result: effective teaching methods; effective steps toward peace. While Affective is: of, caused by, or expressing emotion or feeling; emotional.  Two completely different words with different meanings "
Never knew... thanks.
#131 Posted by Kowbrainz (923 posts) -

Just finished the game and totally agree with this. 
Maybe some reviewers forget sometimes that reviews are meant to be purchasing advice. I'm not as offended by the 1200 MP pricepoint as some but sometimes it seems like when you're reviewing a game that you get a free download code for it's easy to overlook what you put in versus what you get out of it.
 
My real problem was that Limbo at its core was really just another puzzle platformer with a different artstyle. Were the puzzles particularly challenging and unique? Sometimes, although a lot of that could be attributed to the uncoordinated character I feel. Was there any deep underlying narrative or message? Not really. As others have already said, it shouldn't be getting praise for minimalism.

#132 Posted by demontium (4707 posts) -
@Kowbrainz said:
" Just finished the game and totally agree with this.  Maybe some reviewers forget sometimes that reviews are meant to be purchasing advice. I'm not as offended by the 1200 MP pricepoint as some but sometimes it seems like when you're reviewing a game that you get a free download code for it's easy to overlook what you put in versus what you get out of it.  My real problem was that Limbo at its core was really just another puzzle platformer with a different artstyle. Were the puzzles particularly challenging and unique? Sometimes, although a lot of that could be attributed to the uncoordinated character I feel. Was there any deep underlying narrative or message? Not really. As others have already said, it shouldn't be getting praise for minimalism. "
Yeah pretty much my edited part in the blog seems to run true.
#133 Posted by DeadSpace (43 posts) -

I worry that Limbo is going to be one of those games that people only adore in its moment. As someone who hasn't played it yet (for price reasons), what worries me the most is the kind of defensive stance it inspires in the people who adore it. With a game like say Batman: Arkham Asylum you get this near-universal consensus of: "This is a really good game." And it just kind of stands by itself.
 
Limbo turns people into evangelists. It might be a good game. It might be an amazing game. But I'm not thrilled with the way people kind of shove the word masterpiece down the media pipe.
 
Think about all of the great games that have come out this year (Mass Effect 2 for instance). Time for a prophecy here - when it comes time for the GB crew to deliberate on their 2010 GOTY, if Limbo is even considered as a finalist the point people will arrive at is: "Yeah, the artstyle was good. It really captured an oppressive mood. The core mechanics of this game were fun and good. But this is a game with very simple mechanics that we've seen before."

#134 Posted by SoothsayerGB (1468 posts) -

Were you stoned?  If you play Limbo baked, you'll love it.  
 
I agree, also.  The game has a great tone and look.  But you don't make good or fun games, based on trial and error.

#135 Posted by demontium (4707 posts) -
@SoothsayerGB said:
" Were you stoned?  If you play Limbo baked, you'll love it.    I agree, also.  The game has a great tone and look.  But you don't make good or fun games, based on trial and error. "  
Dude, joystick is good when your stoned.@DeadSpace said:
" I worry that Limbo is going to be one of those games that people only adore in its moment. As someone who hasn't played it yet (for price reasons), what worries me the most is the kind of defensive stance it inspires in the people who adore it. With a game like say Batman: Arkham Asylum you get this near-universal consensus of: "This is a really good game." And it just kind of stands by itself.  Limbo turns people into evangelists. It might be a good game. It might be an amazing game. But I'm not thrilled with the way people kind of shove the word masterpiece down the media pipe.   Think about all of the great games that have come out this year (Mass Effect 2 for instance). Time for a prophecy here - when it comes time for the GB crew to deliberate on their 2010 GOTY, if Limbo is even considered as a finalist the point people will arrive at is: "Yeah, the artstyle was good. It really captured an oppressive mood. The core mechanics of this game were fun and good. But this is a game with very simple mechanics that we've seen before." "
Yeah, I have seen this complex before. I can't remember which game though.
#136 Posted by DG991 (1344 posts) -
@litrock: that game was sort of all about the multiplayer though. 
#137 Posted by 9cupsoftea (652 posts) -
@DeadSpace said:
" I worry that Limbo is going to be one of those games that people only adore in its moment. As someone who hasn't played it yet (for price reasons), what worries me the most is the kind of defensive stance it inspires in the people who adore it. With a game like say Batman: Arkham Asylum you get this near-universal consensus of: "This is a really good game." And it just kind of stands by itself.  Limbo turns people into evangelists. It might be a good game. It might be an amazing game. But I'm not thrilled with the way people kind of shove the word masterpiece down the media pipe.   Think about all of the great games that have come out this year (Mass Effect 2 for instance). Time for a prophecy here - when it comes time for the GB crew to deliberate on their 2010 GOTY, if Limbo is even considered as a finalist the point people will arrive at is: "Yeah, the artstyle was good. It really captured an oppressive mood. The core mechanics of this game were fun and good. But this is a game with very simple mechanics that we've seen before." "
The reason limbo inspires such a defensive stance is because it's not just a game based on core mechanics and 'fun'. It's something that affects people a bit more deeply. If all you saw in Limbo was its mechanics and 'fun' then you only saw a small part of what other people loved. I'm not saying everyone should, people can hate on limbo all they want, but nobody can deny that for a few people who did love it, it is a whole lot more than things like ME2.
#138 Posted by DeadSpace (43 posts) -
@9cupsoftea:  So, here's where I'll meet you on this game if you're willing to talk it out a little further. I don't want this to come off as antagonistic just maybe a little provocative:
 
What is it about this game that affects you deeply? I'm not asking that rhetorically, I really wanna know. I'm just wary about people not being able to articulate what it is about this game that strikes them so profoundly. In this thread at least (I'll peek my head out into this game's forum at large after this reply) I see a lot of earnest defense of the game but very little substantive conversation about how Limbo is so effective. 
 
I look at this game and I see a platformer with very few new tricks and a $15 price tag and think, "I'll wait." If it's a moving and compelling experience to play, I might reconsider. But so far I hear a lot of people calling it a masterpiece but then not really being able to express why.
#139 Posted by 9cupsoftea (652 posts) -
@DeadSpace said:
" @9cupsoftea:  So, here's where I'll meet you on this game if you're willing to talk it out a little further. I don't want this to come off as antagonistic just maybe a little provocative:  What is it about this game that affects you deeply? I'm not asking that rhetorically, I really wanna know. I'm just wary about people not being able to articulate what it is about this game that strikes them so profoundly. In this thread at least (I'll peek my head out into this game's forum at large after this reply) I see a lot of earnest defense of the game but very little substantive conversation about how Limbo is so effective.    I look at this game and I see a platformer with very few new tricks and a $15 price tag and think, "I'll wait." If it's a moving and compelling experience to play, I might reconsider. But so far I hear a lot of people calling it a masterpiece but then not really being able to express why. "
First of all, you have to play limbo to understand what it is about. Try the demo. I thought it was just a regular platformer with a different art style when I first saw it, and much of what made me love it is stuff that would spoil it for you if I talked about it. It's not just puzzles in black and white, it uses a lot of tricks and sequences to create a strong sense of mystery and danger, all of which are really subtle and clever.  
 
If I had one criticism of the game it's that the latter half IS much more just a puzzle platformer, but the first half more than makes up for it. Try the demo, and you will get it.
#140 Edited by demontium (4707 posts) -
@9cupsoftea said:

" @DeadSpace said:

" @9cupsoftea:  So, here's where I'll meet you on this game if you're willing to talk it out a little further. I don't want this to come off as antagonistic just maybe a little provocative:  What is it about this game that affects you deeply? I'm not asking that rhetorically, I really wanna know. I'm just wary about people not being able to articulate what it is about this game that strikes them so profoundly. In this thread at least (I'll peek my head out into this game's forum at large after this reply) I see a lot of earnest defense of the game but very little substantive conversation about how Limbo is so effective.    I look at this game and I see a platformer with very few new tricks and a $15 price tag and think, "I'll wait." If it's a moving and compelling experience to play, I might reconsider. But so far I hear a lot of people calling it a masterpiece but then not really being able to express why. "
First of all, you have to play limbo to understand what it is about. Try the demo. I thought it was just a regular platformer with a different art style when I first saw it, and much of what made me love it is stuff that would spoil it for you if I talked about it. It's not just puzzles in black and white, it uses a lot of tricks and sequences to create a strong sense of mystery and danger, all of which are really subtle and clever.   If I had one criticism of the game it's that the latter half IS much more just a puzzle platformer, but the first half more than makes up for it. Try the demo, and you will get it. "
I think DeadSpace really nailed something I didn't even notice. The game keeps getting people to say "it effected me.... you are a retard" - basically mindlessly defending it, causing me to shell out the same to similar response time after time.  
 
I don't think the first half is as fun as the second. The gravity puzzles and such are not anything new, but they are more fun. As far as the first act being more gruesome, yeah, and it is more frightening to see what happens to everything. First part is not as fun as Second.
#141 Posted by OneManX (1676 posts) -
@SoothsayerGB said:
" Were you stoned?  If you play Limbo baked, you'll love it.    I agree, also.  The game has a great tone and look.  But you don't make good or fun games, based on trial and error. "
Portal says 'hi'
#142 Posted by Rasgueado (708 posts) -
@demontium: *yawn*
#143 Posted by OneManX (1676 posts) -
@demontium said:
" @9cupsoftea said:

" @DeadSpace said:

" @9cupsoftea:  So, here's where I'll meet you on this game if you're willing to talk it out a little further. I don't want this to come off as antagonistic just maybe a little provocative:  What is it about this game that affects you deeply? I'm not asking that rhetorically, I really wanna know. I'm just wary about people not being able to articulate what it is about this game that strikes them so profoundly. In this thread at least (I'll peek my head out into this game's forum at large after this reply) I see a lot of earnest defense of the game but very little substantive conversation about how Limbo is so effective.    I look at this game and I see a platformer with very few new tricks and a $15 price tag and think, "I'll wait." If it's a moving and compelling experience to play, I might reconsider. But so far I hear a lot of people calling it a masterpiece but then not really being able to express why. "
First of all, you have to play limbo to understand what it is about. Try the demo. I thought it was just a regular platformer with a different art style when I first saw it, and much of what made me love it is stuff that would spoil it for you if I talked about it. It's not just puzzles in black and white, it uses a lot of tricks and sequences to create a strong sense of mystery and danger, all of which are really subtle and clever.   If I had one criticism of the game it's that the latter half IS much more just a puzzle platformer, but the first half more than makes up for it. Try the demo, and you will get it. "
I think DeadSpace really nailed something I didn't even notice. The game keeps getting people to say "it effected me.... you are a retard" - basically mindlessly defending it, causing me to shell out the same to similar response time after time.   I don't think the first half is as fun as the second. The gravity puzzles and such are not anything new, but they are more fun. As far as the first act being more gruesome, yeah, and it is more frightening to see what happens to everything. First part is not as fun as Second. "
I think the thing that gets people, is that it is SO much different from other games. Some players (most reviewers) get attached to the boy, who has no story at all, you go find the girl who you assume to be his sister and that is about it. And then you see him die in terrible, terrible ways. The Lord of Flies feeling of the earlier levels, the brutal machine puzzles to the end. The idea that it uses the the black and white scale so well. I mean, honestly if you wanted to make a case for games as art, then this would be the perfect one. 
 
And it sucks that people are latching onto the X amount of dollars + Y amount of gameplay = Z score... Nevermind the fact that there were plenty of PS2 games that cost 50 bucks and were about 7 hours long. 
 
It seems like a very lame way to cheat yourself out of a truly good game experience, and that is what Limbo is, an experience. It's the sum of challenging gameplay, good design and a unique look. 
#144 Posted by demontium (4707 posts) -
@OneManX said:
" @SoothsayerGB said:
" Were you stoned?  If you play Limbo baked, you'll love it.    I agree, also.  The game has a great tone and look.  But you don't make good or fun games, based on trial and error. "
Portal says 'hi' "
If you're saying portal is trial and error, you're seriously mistaken.  

@OneManX said:
" @demontium said:
" @9cupsoftea said:

" @DeadSpace said:

" @9cupsoftea:  So, here's where I'll meet you on this game if you're willing to talk it out a little further. I don't want this to come off as antagonistic just maybe a little provocative:  What is it about this game that affects you deeply? I'm not asking that rhetorically, I really wanna know. I'm just wary about people not being able to articulate what it is about this game that strikes them so profoundly. In this thread at least (I'll peek my head out into this game's forum at large after this reply) I see a lot of earnest defense of the game but very little substantive conversation about how Limbo is so effective.    I look at this game and I see a platformer with very few new tricks and a $15 price tag and think, "I'll wait." If it's a moving and compelling experience to play, I might reconsider. But so far I hear a lot of people calling it a masterpiece but then not really being able to express why. "
First of all, you have to play limbo to understand what it is about. Try the demo. I thought it was just a regular platformer with a different art style when I first saw it, and much of what made me love it is stuff that would spoil it for you if I talked about it. It's not just puzzles in black and white, it uses a lot of tricks and sequences to create a strong sense of mystery and danger, all of which are really subtle and clever.   If I had one criticism of the game it's that the latter half IS much more just a puzzle platformer, but the first half more than makes up for it. Try the demo, and you will get it. "
I think DeadSpace really nailed something I didn't even notice. The game keeps getting people to say "it effected me.... you are a retard" - basically mindlessly defending it, causing me to shell out the same to similar response time after time.   I don't think the first half is as fun as the second. The gravity puzzles and such are not anything new, but they are more fun. As far as the first act being more gruesome, yeah, and it is more frightening to see what happens to everything. First part is not as fun as Second. "
I think the thing that gets people, is that it is SO much different from other games. Some players (most reviewers) get attached to the boy, who has no story at all, you go find the girl who you assume to be his sister and that is about it. And then you see him die in terrible, terrible ways. The Lord of Flies feeling of the earlier levels, the brutal machine puzzles to the end. The idea that it uses the the black and white scale so well. I mean, honestly if you wanted to make a case for games as art, then this would be the perfect one.  And it sucks that people are latching onto the X amount of dollars + Y amount of gameplay = Z score... Nevermind the fact that there were plenty of PS2 games that cost 50 bucks and were about 7 hours long.  It seems like a very lame way to cheat yourself out of a truly good game experience, and that is what Limbo is, an experience. It's the sum of challenging gameplay, good design and a unique look.  "
The whole X + Y = Z part is totally not my way of scoring games. In fact, I say there shouldn't be a rating system for games, just a: buy, don't buy, rent. But thats a whole other can of worms. 
 
In regards to the PS2 games, yeah I agree, and most of them didn't score well with some exceptions. Limbo is not challenging, a lot of the time it's just a bear trap hidden in the colorless world or something. Yeah, at some of the puzzles, I'll be the first to admit that I was pretty proud of myself passing a daunting challenge, but those were exclusively the few challenging puzzles that weren't trial and error. 
 
I could go on and repeat what I've already said about the artstyle and gameplay and so forth, but the latest issue of the luchazine has a review for Limbo that gets right at the heart of what I've already said about 20 times now. 

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