Metal Gear Solid 5: Big Boss and friends?

#1 Posted by Devyn (7 posts) -

That kind of sounds like a Saturday morning cartoon. So in my obsessive compulsive need to make connections and comprehend the insanely awesome (and insanely insane) story of Metal Gear Solid, I typed up a bunch of thoughts I had on the Phantom Pain trailer. Then I realized I had nowhere to share this, but then I remembered I had a Giant Bomb account. So I decided to post this here. If this isn’t the right place or anything, I apologize (I’ll use the “I’m new here” excuse) and ask that people who are far more competent than I figure it out. So this is basically the questions I had and my theories for my own questions. Also spoilers if you haven't played the other four games?

Question: What is the story of Metal Gear Solid 5?

Theory: I think it’s very possible that this game could be sort of like the origin story to the modern FOXHOUND unit as well as Solid Snake.

In the trailer we see many different established Metal Gear characters. The man on the horse riding Big Boss to safety is probably Revolver Ocelot (cowboy boots and duster kind of seal it for me), and the little kid in the gas mask is probably a young Psycho Mantis. They both have worked for the KGB in the past, so it makes sense that they would somehow be in league with each other. The giant flaming whale and fiery pegasus may just be illusions Psycho Mantis is projecting over the conflict to distract the soldiers assassinating the hospital patients.

We also see Kazuhira Miller injured on a hospital table when Big Boss goes into his coma. He then asks about the condition of the man on the other hospital table (perhaps the bandaged man given that he is helping Big Boss escape the facility later on?). If the bandaged man is an existing character, my guess is that it would be Frank Jaeger, or Gray Fox. Given that Big Boss has a knack for rescuing Gray Fox repeatedly, it would be poetic in a sense if Gray Fox helped Big Boss escape. This is a bit sketchy admittingly, as if Gray Fox is the POV character in that cutscene and the guy with the bandaged face, I’m not sure why he would be in the same hospital as a comatose Big Boss for nine years.

So know that in the Phantom Pain, Big Boss wakes up from a nine year coma. Considering Solid, Liquid, and Solidus Snake were cloned by Major Zero against Big Boss’ will it is very possible during this coma is when the Les Infantes Miserables project is created. We could very well see a seven or eight year old Solid Snake by the end of this game. This makes sense as Ocelot was against the Patriots decision to clone Snake in the first place, and the only man he had ever shown loyalty to was Big Boss. I’m sure he would be down to bust Snake out of the facility where he was being harvested for his DNA. Considering Frank Jaeger has a history of being tested on as well, it is very possible that he was the victim of similar genetic experiments. Adding to this theory is the Union Jack in both trailers, and Major Zero was both a member of the British SAS and M16.

Question: What is XOF?

Theory: XOF is a terrorist group comprised from former members of FOX. “The Burned Man”, their leader, is Gene from Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops.

The latter is more out there than the former mind you. Metal Gear Solid has a proud tradition of having a “freak” squad of soldiers from a military branch (that conveniently make for good boss fights) that have become a terrorist threat. The “Sons of Big Boss” from Metal Gear Solid are former Foxhound (and by extension US Military). “Dead Cell” was a military branch of the NAVY before they defected and became terrorists. The "Cobra Unit" was an elite task force that helped the Allied powers win World War II before serving a terrorist in Colonel Volgin during the Cold War. It makes sense that XOF would be a terrorist threat comprised of former FOX soldiers.

So who is this burned man who seems to be the leader of XOF? If it's an established character, I'd have to guess the former leader of FOX, Gene, from Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops. How is he still alive? Metal Gear Solid anime bullshit.

Question: What is Ground Zeroes? What is the Phantom Pain?

Theory: Well Kojima has kind of stated already that Ground Zeroes is the open world part of the game. Presumably the first part of the game is going to be more like MGS 4, then sort of open up and become more of an open world stealth shooter as you progress through the game. I also think however that Ground Zeroes is sort of the final part of the Big Boss quadrilogy.

You can view Metal Gear Solid 1-4 as it’s own sort of quadrilogy. The first game is a sort of remake and sequel of the original Metal Gear, MGS 2 is a continuation of the conspiracy story of the first game, the third game is the origin story of the threats implied by both games, and MGS 4 is the neat bow in which all plot lines are resolved. The series works like that.

However, you can also think of Metal Gear Solid 3 as a sort of stand alone game, with Portable Ops and Peace Walker being sequels to that particular story. If you think of it like that, Ground Zeroes could be the fourth in the Big Boss series of games thematically, wrapping up Big Boss’ story leading up to the first Metal Gear. That said the game is called Metal Gear Solid 5, so like Metal Gear Solid 3 it is probably important to the overall story. Metal Gear Solid 3 basically gave faces and names to the otherwise abstract concept known as the Patriots, as well as humanizing Big Boss who had been this posthumous shadow lingering over the story.

If I had to guess, Metal Gear Solid Five is going to be the bridge between the modern and past era of Metal Gear Solid titles. The game that brings the narrative full circle.

But again, I’m confused as fuck to whether they’re two different games or not.

TLDR version: MGS5 is the origin of Solid Snake and the modern Foxhound unit, with some dude from the PSP game as the bad guy.

Also hello Giant Bomb community. I've lurked here for a while and you guys seem okay.

#2 Posted by FLStyle (4401 posts) -

@devyn: At first I also thought that this would be the origin story for the clones, but then I remembered that the clones were already 2 years-old in Peace Walker, set in 1974. If Big Boss falls into the coma in 1974 then he wakes up in 1983.

So the likely scenario is that Ground Zeroes is a few hours long like the Tanker Chapter in MGS2, then the 9 years happen, then Phantom Pain happens, then most likely Snake and Miller leave for Africa were they spend the bulk of the game defeating XOF and setting up Outer Heaven.

David Hayter may secretly be coming back to voice a young Solid Snake training in FOXHOUND at some point, filling the gap as you say between the Big Boss era of games and the beginning of the Solid Snake games.

Regarding Ocelot, he'll still be in his 30s, so I expect the horse rider to be an older Miller.

#3 Edited by Daneian (1174 posts) -

I was having the same thoughts on this being where FOXHOUND is created. I imagine we'll see Sniper Wolf and maybe a few of the guys that will go on to be bosses from MG 1 + 2 by the end as well. I have a feeling that not only will this be where Psycho Mantis kills his family and village, but that all that hair will get burned off by the fire guy we keep seeing in these trailers. Also, the red hand BB has is very similar to the one Galvez has in Peace Walker.

As far as the story, if you look at the series as the complete construction of an individual (Genes, Memes, Scene, Sense), I've got to imagine Kojima will continue in line with that thematic progression.

#4 Edited by SnakeLinkSonic (241 posts) -

I'm much less interested in making ties to the bosses of the original Metal Gear Solid and much more intrigued by how they could bring character and world-building to the understandably blank archetypes present in Metal Gear 1 & 2. Moreso the original '87 title than MG2 (as MG2 is basically a 2D Metal Gear Solid to begin with, but there's still room). Sure, It'd be cool to have the nostalgia/novelty cameo there in terms of characters like theoretical young Mantis, but I'd want to see some character that will essentially have to be created for templates like the Machinegun Kid and the Bloody Brad protoypes.

#5 Posted by Demoskinos (13927 posts) -

I like your theories. Also I think at some point we will see a now 25 year old Paz. She is assumed to still be alive at the end if peace walker after Big Boss destroys ZEKE.

#6 Edited by jclane (326 posts) -

@flstyle said:

@devyn: At first I also thought that this would be the origin story for the clones, but then I remembered that the clones were already 2 years-old in Peace Walker, set in 1974. If Big Boss falls into the coma in 1974 then he wakes up in 1983.

So the likely scenario is that Ground Zeroes is a few hours long like the Tanker Chapter in MGS2, then the 9 years happen, then Phantom Pain happens, then most likely Snake and Miller leave for Africa were they spend the bulk of the game defeating XOF and setting up Outer Heaven.

David Hayter may secretly be coming back to voice a young Solid Snake training in FOXHOUND at some point, filling the gap as you say between the Big Boss era of games and the beginning of the Solid Snake games.

Regarding Ocelot, he'll still be in his 30s, so I expect the horse rider to be an older Miller.

Except we've seen an older Miller in MG2 and in artwork for MGS, and he clearly still has blond hair. Ocelot would be 39/40 by the time Big Boss awakes from his coma, so it's not a complete stretch to think he'd have grey hair.

EDIT: Someone posted this to the MGS sub-reddit which shows the character in question with what appears to be a revolver of sorts in his holster. Plus, the symbolism of him riding a white horse is the same as the Boss, his mother.

#7 Posted by FLStyle (4401 posts) -

@jclane: Just looks like a black coat with a red circle around it to me, my monitor must be showing its age. If it is Ocelot, that infamous KojiPro lighting could be making his blond hair look grey like it did with Big Boss's brown hair in the Ground Zeroes trailer. I'd just be happy to have Ocelot during his late 30s/early 40s in the game.

#8 Posted by rebgav (1429 posts) -

@flstyle said:

Big Boss falls into the coma in 1974 then he wakes up in 1983.

Or does he? Or DOES he?!

Of the info available so far, this seems like the least reliable aspect. Not the timeline so much as the idea that a lead character in the Metal Gear universe was just in a coma for 9 years and that's that, nothing else happened, it totally isn't misdirection of any sort. That just reeks of plot twist.

#9 Posted by Benny (1939 posts) -

@flstyle: @jclane: There's no question that's ocelot, look up any image of ocelot from MGS4, it's just that they overhauled how the characters looked for that game when it made the jump to PS3. In my opinion the MGS4 incarnations of the characters only partly resemble what they look like in the past games and concept art.

I'm with the OP, I think this will involve the period of time when Big Boss ran FOXHOUND and trained young solid snake. I think David Hayter will voice him too.

#10 Edited by N7 (3570 posts) -

@benny said:

@flstyle: @jclane: There's no question that's ocelot, look up any image of ocelot from MGS4, it's just that they overhauled how the characters looked for that game when it made the jump to PS3. In my opinion the MGS4 incarnations of the characters only partly resemble what they look like in the past games and concept art.

I'm with the OP, I think this will involve the period of time when Big Boss ran FOXHOUND and trained young solid snake. I think David Hayter will voice him too.

Nope. That's way too far away. In this game you can expect to see a lot of what we saw in Peace Walker, just on a bigger scale. During this time, Big Boss was renown as the worlds greatest mercenary. He was a dirty dealin' son of a gun that had no love for ideology or nations. He employed a lot of child soldiers and even trained a child Sniper Wolf in the art of marksmanship, where he earned the name "Saladin". It was some time later that he and Miller joined FOXHOUND, where Miller began getting estranged from Big Boss. So Miller remained and Big Boss secretly began Outer Heaven again. Sometime here he met up with Liquid and told him how much of a pussy he was, and how he favored Solid Snake.

I'm going to guess the game will end when he joins FOXHOUND, and the next game following this will be Metal Gear 1, and perhaps Metal Gear 2 remakes. I think it would be dope to play these games from the perspective of Big Boss, but I'd put my money that it'll be Solid Snake again.

Gotta remember that this game is an open world game where you can build your base, presumably recruit more soldiers. They said you can capture vehicles right from the level, and travel the globe.

#11 Posted by FLStyle (4401 posts) -

@rebgav said:

@flstyle said:

Big Boss falls into the coma in 1974 then he wakes up in 1983.

Or does he? Or DOES he?!

Of the info available so far, this seems like the least reliable aspect. Not the timeline so much as the idea that a lead character in the Metal Gear universe was just in a coma for 9 years and that's that, nothing else happened, it totally isn't misdirection of any sort. That just reeks of plot twist.

I would welcome a twist on the 9 years, there have been allusions to early VR training in the Moby Dick Phantom Pain trailers.

@benny:I'll take your word for it, I can't see it that great. PS. Nice avatar, hope we get another MGA episode.

@n7:Yeah they'll probably be straight-up remakes of MG and MG2.

#12 Edited by Stonyman65 (2413 posts) -
@n7 said:

@benny said:

@flstyle: @jclane: There's no question that's ocelot, look up any image of ocelot from MGS4, it's just that they overhauled how the characters looked for that game when it made the jump to PS3. In my opinion the MGS4 incarnations of the characters only partly resemble what they look like in the past games and concept art.

I'm with the OP, I think this will involve the period of time when Big Boss ran FOXHOUND and trained young solid snake. I think David Hayter will voice him too.

Nope. That's way too far away. In this game you can expect to see a lot of what we saw in Peace Walker, just on a bigger scale. During this time, Big Boss was renown as the worlds greatest mercenary. He was a dirty dealin' son of a gun that had no love for ideology or nations. He employed a lot of child soldiers and even trained a child Sniper Wolf in the art of marksmanship, where he earned the name "Saladin". It was some time later that he and Miller joined FOXHOUND, where Miller began getting estranged from Big Boss. So Miller remained and Big Boss secretly began Outer Heaven again. Sometime here he met up with Liquid and told him how much of a pussy he was, and how he favored Solid Snake.

I'm going to guess the game will end when he joins FOXHOUND, and the next game following this will be Metal Gear 1, and perhaps Metal Gear 2 remakes. I think it would be dope to play these games from the perspective of Big Boss, but I'd put my money that it'll be Solid Snake again.

Gotta remember that this game is an open world game where you can build your base, presumably recruit more soldiers. They said you can capture vehicles right from the level, and travel the globe.

If we are sticking to the 1974-1983 timeline, Solid Snake would be approximately 11 years old at that time. However, I don't think that the events of Ground Zeros takes place in 1974 right after Peace Walker but a few years afterwards.

I agree with the whole Ocelot theory. If that guy isn't him, than that guy must be his long lost twin brother or something. Way too similar with too much symbology not to be Ocelot. Once again, going with the 1974-1983 timeline, he would be about 40 years old give or take a year or two. (moving that up a few years he would be in his mid 40's to early 50's, so the grey hair thing is entirely possible)

FOXHOUND was formed by Big Boss in 1970 (he left to form MSF in 1972 and MFS was destroyed post-1974 we see a bit of this in the trailer - that oil rig blowing up is MSF HQ) He didn't take control of FOXHOUND again for another 15 years, so that would be around 1985.

The events of Metal Gear 1 and Outer Heaven didn't happen until 1995.

So, whether you want to go with the 1974 timeline or the post-1974 timeline, there are still a few years that are unaccounted for. For instance, we still have never seen how Miller and Big Boss meet, and by the time Peace Walker happened it was pretty clear that Big Boss was already an established mercenary by then. It is entirely possible that he has already met Sniper Wolf and Psycho Mantis, as well as a reunion with Ocelot and Null/Frank Jaeger/GreyFox.

As for the actual game, Konami has confirmed that Ground Zeros and MGS5 are in fact two separate games, regardless of what Kojima said at the press conference. (Source: http://www.joystiq.com/2013/03/27/david-hayter-says-he-wasnt-asked-to-voice-metal-gear-solid-5/)

So there is a lot of room to explain the whole back story and introduce/re-introduce past and present characters.

Edit: Apparently MGS5 takes place 9 years after Ground Zeros, so if Ground Zeroes happened in 1974-1975, MGS5 would take place in 1983-1984.

So the theory about going back to FOXHOUND and a young Solid Snake would check out - the timeline adds up.

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#13 Posted by Devyn (7 posts) -

Good points everyone on the timeline, I'm sort of trying to piece everything together myself and overlooked some of the dates involved. There is also not a lot of reliable information, especially considering the surreal nature of parts of the trailer.

I just came in to add that EVA in MGS 4 casually states that Major Zero recovers both Big Boss' and Frank Jaeger's body when he starts to do his experiments, so I think it's very possible Gray Fox is in one of these games.

@demoskinos: I think in the Ground Zeroes trailer Snake's mission is specifically to find Paz before XOF does, but it has been a little while since I've seen the trailer.

@daneian: Thematically, that makes a lot of sense. Good call on Galvez too, that probably is a more plausible identity of the Burned Man.

@jclane: Didn't see that before, but now I'm convinced that is Ocelot.

#14 Edited by PillClinton (3284 posts) -

All I'm gonna say is 'Big Boss and Friends' is a vastly superior subtitle.

#15 Edited by Snail (8479 posts) -

I'm not interested in this game enough to read all that at nearly five in the morning - just wanted to say that "Big Boss and Friends" would probably be the most amazing subtitle for this game.

#16 Edited by Max_Cherry (1113 posts) -

What if Big Boss is himself a clone? But, seriously, I think the game takes place in 1991 where it tells the secret true story of how Big Boss destroyed the Soviet Union and ended the Cold War.

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