After playing games on my iMac SSD Win7 Boot Camp install, I've seen a HYOOGE performance to load times. I want that same benefit on the PS4 and am willing to spend the extra money if only they make the HDD replaceable like they did with the PS3. Is there any chance of that? My Boot Camp partition is SMALL, and so I can't pick up every PC game that I'd like (at least until I figure out how to uninstall games on Win7).

E3 should tell you.

Yup.

I'm placing my bets on it will be replaceable or at least allow an external drive like the Wii U.

It has to be one or the other. Maybe both?

Whaat?

Because HD's don't last ten years, I'm going to be opposed to it if they don't. Even if opening the PS4 up and putting a new drive in there by brutal hands voiding every warranty doesn't make the HD replaceable, I'm going to be opposed to it.

External USB3 is a given though.

I would get a PS4 for this, so that by the time the next Elder Scrolls game comes out SSD's would be cheap enough to get a small or medium sized one in.

Seriously, the difference between load times from the 5400 Xbox and my 7200 laptop for Oblivion made a huge difference in my enjoyment of that game. Having fast load times in ES would be worth going Sony primarily for me.

Also since it will be bases on well known PC architecture its bugginess will fall in line with other versions of ES and not be an insane mess.

I hope they continue with replaceable HDDs but I doubt an SSD will be an option mainly because Sony wants to keep the price within range of the Xone. Maybe MS will launch a higher end model and Sony will countermove with the same (including SSD) but I'm not holding my breath.

At minimum I would hope that the included HDD is 7200 rpm but who knows. It would be cheaper to include 5400 and go for higher capacity.

The one issue with both console that remains to be seen is overheating. The Xone is covered in vents to supposedly run silent and prevent overheating. A faster rpm would mean more heat. The PS4 is supposed to be physically larger and covered in vents as well. If they include a 7200 rpm 500 GB HDD it will sound like a jet engine. I replaced my PS3 HDD with one of these and it get pretty damn hot and loud. I would love an option to add an SSD and for it actually to impact system performance, but that remains to be seen...

@zaccheus:

I've been Mac-only since 2001. I just love the way Macs work (please don't hate - I have ADHD and I hate the Windows Way). Steam has done a LOT to bring me over to the Master Race though - because it 'just works' and it works so well! But yeah, I have no idea how to uninstall on Win7. I haven't even gotten a second browser on my Win7 partition. I used Explorer to get Steam and a free antivirus and that's IT.

I don't even know where to FIND the programs to uninstall, nor whether different parts of the program are in different places. I had nightmares when I was on PC trying to figure out how to REALLY uninstall something. Win7 was a nightmare. It wouldn't install on Boot Camp because it didn't like my RAM (even though it was a premium 2nd party RAM)...and then I was baffled when Win7 used up a ginormous amount of my disk space that equalled my RAM for some reason...

So far, on Steam - I have Skyrim and DLC, Far Cry 3 (barely played), Mark of the Ninja, and Civ V.

@djou:

If it doesn't come with a replaceable drive and TRIM support for SSDs, I don't know....I may just build a gaming PC and hook it up to my TV. SSD makes a HYOOOOGE difference in load times. The way I played the game on PC couldn't easily be done on Xbox or PS3 (I actually own all three versions of the game because I'm an ES fanboy). I optimized rested times and the three main skill stones to make grinding my skills less tedious, for instance.

@disastermouse: I used to be skeptical about SSDs until I built and HTPC and its like night and day compared to my older computers. That being said I doubt the PS4 will come with an SSD option. Looks like MS if really cheaping out on the components for their console so Sony may want to keep things within reason. The best hope is a replaceable HDD and that is doesn't cause the console to overheat. I put a 1TB 7200 hybrid drive into my PS3 without knowing better. The performance is negligibly better and it gets crazy hot when I run it for hours. Its even hard locked a few times. I wouldn't pull the trigger yet on any hardware upgrades until they announce the prices, who knows maybe they will be so affordable that the specs won't factor into a purchasing decision.

They did a test with an ssd in a ps3 and the difference was minimal ~5s quicker in most cases. I can see the ps4/ONE having the same results. Pc's are a hell of a lot different however with this new generation basicly being based around pc architecure and with the games running fully off the hdd now there could be a difference

SSDs are not that great on consoles, at least on the PS3, the difference was negligible.

Also what fucked up priorities you guys have, Mods are much more important for an ES game than load times.

I ran tests years ago when I bought my first SSD and I want to say that in-game performance and framerates will improve if the engine works in that way. GTA4, Unreal engine games, etc. You can gain an advantage in multiplayer if the game and engine allows it, right now on the PS3 some PS3 SuperSlim (12gb SSD) users do with Dust514 because that game lets you get down and start playing the moment it finishes loading, players are standing outside the enemy spawn when these enemies are able to start moving.

PC-wise, some engines simply get a legendary boost in loadtimes, from 40+ seconds to zone in Rift to 3 seconds. MMOs in general let players and monsters render immediately instead of popping in one by one, like racing fast cars in GTA4 on an SSD compared to a regular HD install, it's hard to believe how much better it is. Hopefully this could become a thing for the PS4 as a luxury SKU. Depends where the technology goes, if it becomes comparable in active-life cycles to a regular HD.

@ikilledthedj:

Oh yeah, SSD in a PS3 is a waste of time because of the bus or whatever - it's limited in a way that it can't take advantage of the speed of the SSD. Being new tech, I'd be mightily surprised if the PS4 was similarly limited. It would be a HUGE oversight and SSDs are gonna take over PC gaming rigs - they're just TOO awesome. Would Cerny really cripple the PS4 in such a way that SSD is NEVER gonna be an option?

Oh no. No, no, no, no. Mods de-stabilize the game when you stack too many, for one thing. Yes, they are awesome, but like ghost-pepper sauce, they're best used sparingly to great effect. SSDs RADICALLY reduce the loading time, meaning more of your time is spent actually PLAYING the game instead of rotating little statues waiting for things to happen. My roommate and I used to call it 'punished by the load screen'. Did you die in a stupid way? Punished by the load screen. Go through the wrong door in the Thieve's Guild? Punished by the load screen. Going into your house to drop off cool loot for display purchases? Punished by the load screen.

The PS3 uses a SATA 1 controller which would greatly limit any benefits of an SSD. As long as the PS4 uses a modern SATA 3 controller you should be able to get the performance increase you're looking for. I highly doubt Sony will ship a PS4 model with an SSD, but so long as you can put one in there somehow it should work. If external USB 3 SSDs became popular, you could get pretty good performance that way, not as good as SATA 3, but much faster than any HDD can transfer.

@cameron said:

USB external is not good enough to sink the money into an SSD. Must.be.SATA 3!

I was just wondering if we have heard anything new about the ability to replace hard drives on the PS4.

I know it is coming with a 500GB hard drive but I haven't heard if it will be as easy to upgrade that as it is currently with the PS3.

I've been wondering the same thing. I looked at pictures of the console and there doesn't seem to be a way to "open" it. I would hope so.

There site is saying "built in" so thats kind of a bummer, also where is this 500gb info coming from?

Oh i have a feeling that theyre selling the 249GB for 399 and the 500 GB for 499

Sony press release says 500GB in the 399 model.

@lego_my_eggo: The 500 GB is comming from the official press release (http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/pdf/130611a_e.pdf)

Hard to know what that means. Technically the PS3 hard drive is "built in".

Oh please God let there be a way to replace the HDD. I don't wanna pay $100 repairs every year and a half to replace a damn HDD.

I would imagine that the spec sheet would have said "user replaceable HDD" if the hard drive can be taken out by the owner. I think that's how the PS3's hard drive was described.

Sony CEO just confirmed on twitter that its upgradable:

Boom!

Shuhei Yoshida ‏@yosp

And yes, PS4's HDD is upgradable like PS3 <3

Came here to post this (Link) - Sony is on a huge roll tonight.

@demonbear: Well that's just wonderful news. A nice small touch on the system. Wasn't a deal breaker but now I'll probably end up putting in a bigger drive just because.

Got to be a 2.5" standard SATA drive then, same as the PS3? Mmm... probably worth it to get a higher capacity one with flash, save the trouble of migrating later (which on PS3 was essentially impossible -- at least before PS+?). Perhaps cloud-saves makes it no big deal, but I can always put the original drive to use elsewhere.

Really? That's pretty good news! I also read that the eye toy is actually a separate purchase. Pretty smart.

In a word... yes.

The interview on this site with a Playstation rep confirmed that you will be able to upgrade the hard drive yourself.