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Posted by DS23

Aaaahahaha only ACTUAL WAR CRIMES are worse than DNF.

Posted by Phatmac

@Mezmero: Jeff agreed to take out MK. He probably loves MK more than you. Just take this as a great year in gaming man.

Posted by Phatmac

Man this year was awesome for video games. The arguments were great and I love Skyrim so I'm glad it won out. I would have picked portal 2, but whatever. Great year and arguments by all. Can't wait for next year.

Posted by bkbroiler

@tightestjeans said:

LittleBigPlanet 2 was released Jan 18th 2011, received a 5 out of 5 from Jeff, 91 on Metacritic, and not a single mention all week.

If Saint's Row The Third came out in Q1 2011 would anybody be talking about it? No. If Portal 2 came out in November would it have won GOTY? Probably.

I wouldn't say that's a completely invalid point that games that are fresher in your mind have a stronger impact, but ME2 came out in January and they named it their GOTY last year.

Posted by Archaen

@warxsnake said:

GIANTBOMB COMMUNITY: We so cant wait for the GOTY arguments man, that podcast is gonna be awesome!!1!

GIANTBOMB COMMUNITY: Fuck Brad for arguing and making valid points.

The problem is nearly all his points are also true of skyrim, the game he was arguing for. The plain truth of the matter is 3/5 of the voters picked SRT as their favorite game of the year and one of them decided to pick a game he didn't play or put on his list for game of the year. Yes, that is very, very strange.

Posted by GenesisZ

And Thank You Guys!

Online
Edited by logicfracture

@Plasma said:

I like Jeff and Vinny's arguments better, as I hate Brad's blind, biased and hypocritical arguments, but Skyrim is a better game.

Saints Row is a dumb game that's very gamey, but its a perfect game for the GB crew (no offense).

I agree. I like Skyrim more but Brad's arguments came off as condescending, and very poorly backed up. Kind of painful to listen to. It's like a whiny filibuster until he gets what he wants.

Posted by tightestjeans

@bkbroiler: ME2 did have better mindshare though, having the game being released again on the PS3 one year later Jan 2011.

Posted by MrKlorox
@tightestjeans said:

LittleBigPlanet 2 was released Jan 18th 2011, received a 5 out of 5 from Jeff, 91 on Metacritic, and not a single mention all week.

If Saint's Row The Third came out in Q1 2011 would anybody be talking about it? No. If Portal 2 came out in November would it have won GOTY? Probably.

You're not wrong.  Yes, ME2 came out in January, but was still supported throughout the year by DLC which kept it on folks' radars. Hearing Jeff describe Saint's Row is more fun than actually experiencing it. I doubt Trine 2 would have even been mentioned once if it hadn't just come out.
 
They should use E3 as the cutoff time for games that qualify so they have some months to digest and play everything.
Posted by Cybexx

Just finished listening and realized that Super Mario 3D Land missed the Top 10 discussion despite being on Ryan's list. Was there some pre-cutting for the short list or was the only non-Alex/Drew pick that didn't make that shortlist?

Posted by Milkman

@Archaen said:

@warxsnake said:

GIANTBOMB COMMUNITY: We so cant wait for the GOTY arguments man, that podcast is gonna be awesome!!1!

GIANTBOMB COMMUNITY: Fuck Brad for arguing and making valid points.

The problem is nearly all his points are also true of skyrim, the game he was arguing for. The plain truth of the matter is 3/5 of the voters picked SRT as their favorite game of the year and one of them decided to pick a game he didn't play or put on his list for game of the year. Yes, that is very, very strange.

Wrong. Ryan picked Saints Row as his personal game of the year but argued for Skyrim during the entire argument. Jeff and Vinny were alone on the Saints Row side.

Posted by Milkman

@Henrikhoe said:

i fucking hate brad. he got asked whats better about skyrim then oblivion. and he said they done it. be more specific brad. so fucking tired of that guy and how he defends himself. so incredibly stupid fucking lame. also brad have said he hasnt touch skyrim since after his revieq process. ans has only played 30 hours. fucking liar. last thing i will ever see, hear or read about brad

Calm down, tough guy.

It's ridiculous how butt hurt people are getting about this. Obviously, a lot of people are going to have differing opinions from the staff. Man up and deal with it. State your case, fine. But making idiotic blanket statements like this fool are a waste of time. I didn't always agree what was being said during the podcast but I was always entertained. That should be enough.

Posted by Archaen

@Milkman said:

@Archaen said:

@warxsnake said:

GIANTBOMB COMMUNITY: We so cant wait for the GOTY arguments man, that podcast is gonna be awesome!!1!

GIANTBOMB COMMUNITY: Fuck Brad for arguing and making valid points.

The problem is nearly all his points are also true of skyrim, the game he was arguing for. The plain truth of the matter is 3/5 of the voters picked SRT as their favorite game of the year and one of them decided to pick a game he didn't play or put on his list for game of the year. Yes, that is very, very strange.

Wrong. Ryan picked Saints Row as his personal game of the year but argued for Skyrim during the entire argument. Jeff and Vinny were alone on the Saints Row side.

Uhhhhh...we seem to agree on all points. Skyrim won because, for some baffling reason, Ryan decided to argue against his own personal #1 pick. You don't find that strange at all?

Posted by FinalCut

Shame that LittleBigPlanet 2 didn't get a nod as I thought it was one of the best games of the year. Though without a doubt I really think that Portal 2 was GOTY. Such great puzzles, characters, writing, music and visual style. It's a shame that games that release earlier in the year don't get the attention they deserve when awards are given out.

Posted by cthomer5000

@toadstule said:

Vinny's analogy about how Skyrim is like "having a buddy to talk to" and Saint's Row is something you want to "fuck the shit out of" is absolutely amazing.

Patrick setting it up with talking about a 'game boner' and then Vinny taking the analogy and running with it was hands down the moment of the show for me. I was rooting for Skyrim, but at that point decided I would be fine with Saints Row just because of that brilliant argument in it's favor.

Posted by Milkman

@Archaen: I read your original post as 3 out of the 5 were arguing for Saints Row. Not 3/5 chose it as their personal game of the year. That's my bad.

Otherwise, I don't think it's all that strange that Ryan decided to go against Saints Row. A personal game of the year and overall game of the year are very different things. While Ryan personally enjoyed Saints Row more than Skyrim, he felt that Skyrim made more sense for the site game of the year.

Posted by DougQuaid

Giant Bomb Day 5 deliberations - Jeff and Brad throw a tizzy.

Posted by Archaen

@Milkman said:

@Archaen: I read your original post as 3 out of the 5 were arguing for Saints Row. Not 3/5 chose it as their personal game of the year. That's my bad.

Otherwise, I don't think it's all that strange that Ryan decided to go against Saints Row. A personal game of the year and overall game of the year are very different things. While Ryan personally enjoyed Saints Row more than Skyrim, he felt that Skyrim made more sense for the site game of the year.

I agree that's what happened and I think it's a shame. I don't think voting for a game you haven't played even one bit is very intellectually honest. It means Ryan voted on hype alone. That really bothers me. My top 10 list doesn't have any games I didn't play on it. (btw, I really, really miss the community top 10 voting. I cultivated mine all year long.)

Posted by SpunkyHePanda

Rayman Origins boring? Oh, now I'm mad.

Posted by bassman2112

I really loved listening to this GOTY deliberation. It reminded me a lot of the argument about Minerva's Den - where I totally agreed with Brad, even if my choice was the other contender. Every point he made was completely valid and he backed it up really well. His stubborn nature makes him absolutely perfect for these debates, especially when he has really good points.

I really did want Saints Row 3 to win; but I think 2nd only to Skyrim is a huge honour =)

Also, I agree with some other posters... I loved LittleBigPlanet 2 - it was at the top of my personal GOTY Top 10 =)

Posted by Marokai

Very happy to see that Skyrim won. It deserved it!

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Posted by Milkman

@Archaen: To be fair, Ryan did play some Skyrim, just not a lot. Also, to be fair, Ryan never said "Skyrim is a better game and here's why." He mostly stayed out of the argument. The beginning where Ryan says "I can't do this with you, Jeff" is more of a "I can't say definitively that Saints Row is a better game than Skyrim" than a "Skyrim is better game than Saints Row." There's a big difference and I'm sure Ryan would have been fine on either side.

Posted by paulunga

Dark Souls is one of a kind. There's nothing I can think of even being comparable to the Souls games. To me it only gets frustrating because I really love those games and WANT to see what's next and no goddamned Anor Londo archer is going to stop me!

So, in closing, fuck you Anor Londo archers.

Edited by Archaen

@Milkman: I didn't read it that way when Ryan said at the end of the podcast that he hasn't started Skyrim because he knew it was so huge it would take up all his time. Perhaps you're right and he did play some of it, but it didn't sound like it to me.

In terms of the argument itself I didn't like how Brad excused every fault of Skyrim's with "you have to allow for that in a game this large", which in my opinion is a major cop out. There's no way to argue against, "your game has fault, but my game's faults can't be fixed so you can't count them".

One could, for instance, fault Uncharted for being too linear for your tastes, and the reverse argument is that without it being linear they can't tell an "authored story" in the words of Amy Hennig, or have as monumental action set-pieces. I think in terms of Uncharted it's impossible, as currently designed, to fix the linearity issue, but you still hear it get docked for a lack of player agency. If Skyrim's design principles make certain things impossible then they should be held accountable for those shortcomings too.

(Btw, I don't agree with linearity being an issue in Uncharted. It's just an example.)

Posted by The_Big_Rough

They make both Saints Row and Skyrim sould like shit. hahaha

Posted by Jugglerman

Anybody else love the un-edited portion when the wireless dies & the crew think they are off-mic? Reminds me of trouble shooting in the theatre, so awesome :D

Edited by Hayamo

I don't think Brad's argument got to Minerva's Den quality yelling, but I don't think they were arguing the same things. I feel like Brad was vehemently just trying to down talk Saints Row and refused to think about things that were wrong with Skyrim. Vinny and Jeff kept having to go against Brad's arguments against Saints Row as opposed to arguing why one is greater than the other. In fact, Brad's argument seems more like "We should cut Saints Row" instead of "Skyrim should be game of the year over Saints Row."

EDIT: Also, Brad's argument is treating Skyim like it is PERFECT. It is also heavily bartered on his own personal experience as opposed to the game itself. Vinny and Jeff kept providing valid arguments to why Skyrim shouldn't be GOTY, but Brad's argument against that was "I didn't have the same experience." I'm not saying Brad made no valid arguments, but I think Vinny and Jeff's arguments were better. Personally, Saints Row is my GOTY and while I haven't played Skyrim I highly doubt it will overtake it, though that is a possibility.

EDIT NUMERO DOS: Now that I've finished the podcast I'll make a couple more comments. 1: Brad made arguments against Saints Row and disregarded those same arguments against Skyrim. 2: Jeff and Vinny just seem tired of arguing by the end. They basically stop because they don't think that Brad will ever give up. If they can't all come to an agreement they will not choose that game. If this was last week hearing them say Skyrim was their GOTY would be totally "Yeah, saw that coming" but after this week I just do not think that the scores match up.

Posted by Marokai

@toadstule said:

Vinny's analogy about how Skyrim is like "having a buddy to talk to" and Saint's Row is something you want to "fuck the shit out of" is absolutely amazing.

Oddly this was the analogy that convinced me that choosing Saints Row would be insane. Saints Row is the gaming equivalent of a night of no-consequences drunken fun. And God bless it for that. But it's just not in the same league as Skyrim. And outside of a handful of writing highs in SR: The Third, are the side activities new or interesting? No and no. Is the combat particular fun outside of doing so in wacky costumes? No.

It seems like the entire argument from Jeff and Vinny were essentially "parts of it were so wacky, how could it not win!" But that wackiness seems half-comprised of shit I can get out of GTA 3 cheat codes.

A lot of people seem to be negatively going after Ryan for his "Oscars level of snobbery" when it comes to GOTY awards. But you know what? I don't want Borat and Napoleon Dynamite walking away with the Oscar. Enjoy the silly stuff on your own time; give the awards to the serious stuff that deserves it. This isn't a contest of crazy. This is a contest of what is, overall, the greatest game of the year. For their individual gaming fetishes there's the Personal Top Ten list.

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Edited by Archaen

@Hayamo said:

It is also heavily bartered on his own personal experience as opposed to the game itself. Vinny and Jeff kept providing valid arguments to why Skyrim shouldn't be GOTY, but Brad's argument against that was "I didn't have the same experience."

You do bring up an interesting point in that depending on what paths you choose to walk down and where the Radiant AI system takes you you could have a great time with the game or a very poor one. I think that's a problem and should have borne more consideration. I also wish Vinny had been allowed to finish his point about Skyrim compared to other RPGs that have come out this year, and its shortcomings as an RPG (according to him). He got cut off, unfortunately.

Posted by byterunner

You know, the only thing worse than the complaint about Brad, are the comments on Ryan. Jesus Christ, you act like Brad had sex with your sister, and Ryan backstabbed you.

That top 2 discussion became a war of attrition, and Ryan made it very clear that he has little stake in the matter and didn't care that much about the number of the top ten. The Games he wanted in the top ten were there and he didn't really care about the order. Brad cared, and in the end Ryan just decided to end the discussion. Seems reasonable, great podcast guys.

Posted by Marokai
@Jugglerman said:

Anybody else love the un-edited portion when the wireless dies & the crew think they are off-mic? Reminds me of trouble shooting in the theatre, so awesome :D

Yeah, that was one of my favorite parts. They should never edit ever again!
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Posted by Schmollian

Patrick was the most mature one in the argument between TES:V and SR3. What. The. Fuck. Is this world coming to?

Edited by Ares42

I gotta say Brads argumentation for Skyrim has a major blind-spot, MMOs. Skyrim is a "single-player MMO", the game isn't a unique and special pearl, and there are plenty of similar games that are just as big and are way less broken. If Giantbomb had an active MMO player it would completely change the discussion.

Posted by DystopiaX

@Archaen said:

@warxsnake said:

GIANTBOMB COMMUNITY: We so cant wait for the GOTY arguments man, that podcast is gonna be awesome!!1!

GIANTBOMB COMMUNITY: Fuck Brad for arguing and making valid points.

The problem is nearly all his points are also true of skyrim, the game he was arguing for. The plain truth of the matter is 3/5 of the voters picked SRT as their favorite game of the year and one of them decided to pick a game he didn't play or put on his list for game of the year. Yes, that is very, very strange.

It's that brad nitpicks the most stupid things that don't affect user experience at all, or are, as Archaeon points out, hypocritical regarding his own games.

Posted by GioVANNI

@Marokai: I completely agree.

Also, I had way more bugs and technical problems with SR3 in 30 hours than I did with Skyrim in 150. That's not to say that Skyrim isn't buggy, but SR3 is no exception to brokenness.

Posted by buckybit

I am like totally #teamjacob - donno what you guys argue about.

Posted by redrum_redrum

Well.. thank you GB for all the podcast, review, and quick looks.

Posted by Draxyle

@Mystic_11 said:

They make both Saints Row and Skyrim sould like shit. hahaha

That's probably the best and worst part of these deliberations. I've played maybe.. 2 of the games in their top ten. The rest sound terrible after how much they had to trash talk each and every one of them to bring consensus.

I honestly think they should gut the top ten out of next years awards. Despite the amusement of it, I think it brings a bit too much anger out in an award for, basically, the most marketable games. That's what happens when you have to tear apart games with even the slightest flaws, even if they are your true favorites.

Posted by TinyGrasshopper

I have to admit, this has turned me in favor of Patrick and his contributions to the team. Ryan didn't get a chance to play Skyrim this year, which is a shame, but considering how he approached Fallout 3, I never expected him to play it this year, and I'm glad he took the approach he did in the discussion serving as a juror of sorts. I suspect he'll start Skyrim next year and be playing it for months and months.

SRTT is tailored a little too closely to Jeff's sense of humor that I knew he would champion its cause a little too much, excuse its missed opportunities and be down on Skyrim.

Vinny's slant has surprised me considering he was into Witcher 2 and Dark Souls, but again from following the site's content, you knew his obvious bias was to Saints Row.

Brad is Brad. His biases were also obvious, and I'm glad he was intransigent and served to counterpoint Jeff and Vinny who would've bulldozed the conversation on this, but again he had to ignore the other game for the sake of the debate. That's my personal bias though since I've spent 100 hours in Skyrim and only finished 1 and a half major questlines. I never want to leave Skyrim, and apparently I won't be leaving anytime soon.

Patrick was the only one who didn't take a side and brought up important points about both games on both sides. Even though I like Skyrim better, that end sequence with the Bonnie Tyler song was so amazing and memorable that I was glad to have it win, but when he mentioned the Radiant Quest System, that was a really important valid point in favor of Skyrim and you could tell that's when the tone of the conversation changed and Jeff conceded, and rightfully so.

The Radiant Quest System is basically redesigning itself as you're playing it in order to make sure that the pacing stays the same no matter what so that you're always flooded with quests. This is why Skyrim feels like a world more than just a sandbox and I love that. I wish more open-world games did this.

Posted by Brendan

@Draxyle said:

@Mystic_11 said:

They make both Saints Row and Skyrim sould like shit. hahaha

That's probably the best and worst part of these deliberations. I've played maybe.. 2 of the games in their top ten. The rest sound terrible after how much they had to trash talk each and every one of them to bring consensus.

I honestly think they should gut the top ten out of next years awards. Despite the amusement of it, I think it brings a bit too much anger out in an award for, basically, the most marketable games. That's what happens when you have to tear apart games with even the slightest flaws, even if they are your true favorites.

Or you can just develop a sense of perspective that allows you to see the entirety of these games, which are larger than their minute flaws.

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Posted by ImmortalSaiyan

This was a great podcast and I enjoys hearing the debates within. I just wish Vinny fought harder for Dark Souls.

Edited by DystopiaX

My problem with Brad in the final argument is that some of his arguments are hypocritical (SR builds on previous entries, but so does Skyrim, combat in SR is standard/boring, etc.), and there's tons of hyperbole and inaccuracies (bosses are tailored to your character is true, SR3 turns into an average game), etc. Pretty much the same as the best DLC argument from last year but for a bigger award.

Posted by OneManX

Guys... pour one out for Mortal Kombat... the REAL victim of the GotY Podcast

Posted by charlie_victor_bravo

Once again Brad comes of as pretentious and naive. Also nobody has a problem with the Bastion being "better" than Portal 2?

Posted by DystopiaX

I don't think Brad won the discussion as much as he was just the most stubborn one there.

Posted by DystopiaX

@Bassman2112 said:

I really loved listening to this GOTY deliberation. It reminded me a lot of the argument about Minerva's Den - where I totally agreed with Brad, even if my choice was the other contender. Every point he made was completely valid and he backed it up really well. His stubborn nature makes him absolutely perfect for these debates, especially when he has really good points.

I really did want Saints Row 3 to win; but I think 2nd only to Skyrim is a huge honour =)

Also, I agree with some other posters... I loved LittleBigPlanet 2 - it was at the top of my personal GOTY Top 10 =)

Only half his points were hypocritical, his response to all of Jeff and Vinny's arguments about Skyrim was "I didn't have that experience"- even when something PROVEN like the boss being tailored to your character is brought up- I could sense Jeff's frustration when he said that Brad didn't play the same Skyrim as the rest of the world- cause having varied bosses just isn't possible, he argued that SR3's gameplay is average and ignored the criticisms about Skyrim's combat, which, having played 70 hours of skyrim and 40 of SR3, is completely legitimate.

Brad didn't come off as the best debater to me, just the most stubborn.

Posted by MoseSSesoM

Saints Row: The Third didn't glitch in a way that made is so I couldn't finish multiple parts of the games pre and post patch....I just can't understand how Skyrim can be GotY when for some it is unplayable broken.

Posted by spiceninja

Yeah, ok. I get why people hate him now. He cut Uncharted 3, fuck him.

Posted by eisenhorn2k7

So I hate Brad now...

Posted by HowDire

4 HOURS?!

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