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ArbitraryWater

Internet man with questionable sense of priorities

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I'll have a triple Fire Emblem with extra waifu (and other great uses of time and money)

It should come as no surprise to anyone who knows my tastes that I have an opinion on Intelligent Systems’ newest entry in the Fire Emblem series. It’s one of my favorite long-running video game series of all time, which likely explains why I spent somewhere in the neighborhood of 130 hours playing this one over the last month between the game’s three separate campaigns. Did I just say three? Yes. A vital factor for understanding Fire Emblem Fates is to understand that it’s split into three complete and separate campaigns: Birthright, Conquest, and Revelation. I’m crazy, so I bought the $80 special edition with all three of them on the same cartridge, otherwise Birthright and Conquest are sold separately and Revelation is DLC. The closest analogue I can think of is The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages/Seasons, which are two games with identical general gameplay mechanics but different goals when implementing them. Anyone who wants a lot of Fire Emblem can rest assured that the three campaigns are stylistically distinct from one another, but I can assure you that might be too much Fire Emblem and not all of it is great Fire Emblem. I personally found a pretty clear gradation of quality between the three campaigns: Conquest is fantastic, Birthright is decent, and Revelation is... less than decent.

The way Fates is split between the three campaigns makes talking about it as a whole a little difficult, but it’s worth mentioning that I think all of the changes to the nuts and bolts mechanics are smart. They're mostly aimed at tackling some of the more OP tactics in Awakening, but they also address and tweak some longstanding Fire Emblem mechanics. The removal of weapon durability in favor of giving weapons different effects, the changes to pair-up, updating the weapon triangle, and the introduction of shuriken and debuffs are all great additions. On this basic level, Fates is a far more interesting game than Awakening was, though it’s stuff that is probably only super noticeable if you’ve been a long-ish fan of the series. I guess the castle building stuff is another part of the new features and that’s a bit more of a “whatever” kind of thing for me. The only truly important buildings you need to buy are the armory and staff shop, the rest seem to give minor buffs or exist mostly for flavor or if you get way into the castle invasion stuff. I guess you can hang out with people and not rub their faces or something? That sounds like a dumb feature. I’m sure glad that’s optional. It’s no base menu from Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn, I’ll tell you that much.

Fire Emblem for people who hate themselves and love Fire Emblem
Fire Emblem for people who hate themselves and love Fire Emblem

I started with Conquest, which ended up being my favorite by a significant margin. I don’t think that should be much a surprise, since I’m someone who isn’t afraid of a little sadism in his strategy games. If you haven’t heard the pitch, Conquest is essentially the campaign aimed at longtime fans of the series who thought Awakening was too simple and easy. In that aim, the developers succeeded, maybe a little too well. The biggest difference is that there’s no option to grind, outside of DLC maps (you can grind supports in online castle invasions if you want a roundabout way of getting all the child paralouges). The scenarios in Conquest are often tactically demanding by design, with a lot of maps whose win conditions are something other than "Rout Enemy" or "Defeat Boss". Freed from the shackles of needing to be for everyone who likes Fire Emblem, Conquest doesn’t mess around. Enemies aren’t necessarily that much stronger than they are in the other two campaigns, but they do tend to have nasty skills on top of some really devious map design. I was really into that, and I found Conquest to be one of the most satisfying tactics games I've played in a long time (not that I've played a lot of great tactics games in the last year. Steamworld Heist is alright.) How hard is it? I played all three campaigns on Hard/Classic, and Conquest is the most difficult by a fair margin. Even I, as someone who has finished most of the games in the series, had serious trouble with a handful of maps (Chapters 10, 17 and 25 are especially rough. Ninjas man, ninjas.) It’s not quite Thracia 776 hard (it’s more fair and lacks that game’s gleeful propensity for bullshit), but it’s up there. I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a segment of the audience who doesn’t care for Conquest at all, even on the likes of Normal/Casual. For me, this might as well be a Fire Emblem game with my name on it, and you’ll probably see it rather high up on my Game of the Year list come December.

Fire Emblem for the rest of you
Fire Emblem for the rest of you

By comparison, Birthright is the campaign aimed at newer fans of the series. Map design is more open and simple, while resources are more plentiful even without grinding. In short… if you liked Awakening, this is more of that. That’s not a bad thing. Listen, I probably like Awakening more than it deserved, fully as a time/place sort of thing. It was the first Fire Emblem game to come out in the US for 4 years after the lackluster Shadow Dragon (the far superior New Mystery of the Emblem staying a Japan exclusive) and I was desperate for anything from this series. Does it have problems? Yes, absolutely. But the marked increase in production values and “best of Fire Emblem” slate of features were enough for me at that time. Birthright doesn’t get away with quite as much. It was a nice change of pace from Conquest, being able to finish maps on my first try and all that, but coming off of the much harder campaign, I found it fairly easy and I kinda wish I had played it on Lunatic instead of hard. Keep in mind that this comes from the perspective of someone way into tactical turn-based whatever. I’ll be the old man who yells at you for playing on Casual mode (please don’t), doesn't much care for the Fire Emblem series’ increased focus on visual novel-esque anime pairing funtimes, thinks Massive Chalice is mediocre, and will probably make a snarky remark whenever a game journalist compares anything with turn-based combat on a grid to the XCOM reboot (because apparently no other turn-based games existed before 2012). That’s my perspective, but if you aren’t insane like me, Birthright will probably do you just fine. The new Hoshidan classes are a lot of fun, and just because I gripe about the difficulty doesn’t mean I didn’t have to reset every now and again. It’s only a cakewalk in comparison to Conquest and I still enjoyed it just fine.

That leaves me with Revelation, the “Golden Route” DLC campaign for either version meant to explain everything about the story and act as a compromise between the other two campaigns (It has grinding and complex level design), set in a version of the world where your character doesn’t side with either nation. It’s also the worst of the three. Revelation feels like a half-assed compromise, where the maps are still complex like Conquest’s without being difficult. Instead, they’re usually gimmicky and take forever to complete, like a map that requires you to clear out snow to uncover a path (and enemies) or a late-game one with a lot of waiting around for elevators. Regular enemies usually don’t have any skills (something that even Birthright can boast of) and a lot of your own units come under-leveled to the point where you’d have to grind if you wanted to use them (not that you would use most of them, given that you can’t deploy as many characters in most of Revelation’s maps and you have access to both sets of royal siblings. Are you really going to tell me that you’re not going to deploy Ryoma and Xander?) The flipside is that you do get almost everyone aside from Yukimura and Izana and Scarlet, sort of. That means all of the regular units, all of the children units, and even a single Revelation-exclusive character who isn’t half-bad himself. Oh, and access to both armories and staff stores. If you’re interested in whatever crazy post-game DLC that will inevitably be released, or one of those people who wants to ship all of the pairings and doesn’t care about the nuances of the strategy (you are not me), this is the route to play. But I cannot emphasize enough that if Revelation was its own Fire Emblem game, it’s kind of middling and would be near the bottom of my personal tier list. It doesn’t feel like it was as balanced or playtested to the same extent as the other two, but the most critical thing I can say about it is that it’s honestly dull in a way the other two campaigns aren’t. Oh, it’s still Fire Emblem, so I still played the entire thing and got every kid, but if you weren’t crazy and didn’t get the special edition, I might recommend against getting Revelation unless you really want closure to the story, or really like these mechanics (they’re good, don’t get me wrong). Otherwise, I’d recommend the campaign you didn’t buy (be it Birthright or Conquest) and then a long laundry list of almost every other game in the series.

I see what you did there localization team. Suuuuure, she's totally 18 man. I believe you.
I see what you did there localization team. Suuuuure, she's totally 18 man. I believe you.

You’ll notice a deliberate omission from my overview of all three campaigns; the story. Yes, believe it or not, Fire Emblem is more to some people than just a turn-based tactical RPG. If I had to judge based off of the three separate stories for Fates, I wouldn’t quite know why. Listen, Fire Emblem has never had the greatest stories. I think those games have their moments (and some have more moments than others), but even when the quality of the writing is good the plots are usually stock and standard JRPG fare (I couldn’t tell you if I have high or low standards for JRPG stories, given that I liked Final Fantasy XIII’s story well enough and am both genuinely and ironically enjoying going through Kingdom Hearts now). Fates is sub-standard JRPG fare, but with the advantage of being bad in three different ways. Conquest bungles its morally grey premise by, among other things, feeling the need to tell your player created avatar that they’re still definitely the good guy despite siding with the obviously evil invading kingdom, though it does have the advantage of a very unorthodox final boss for a Fire Emblem game. Birthright’s story goes the opposite direction and is so straightforward and boring to the point of being forgettable. The main hook of Revelation’s story (namely that the avatar character can’t explain who the true enemy is because of a curse) is exceptionally sloppy writing, and once that gets resolved it sort of muddles its way to the obvious “Best End” conclusion where everyone tells your avatar character how great they are. The presence of the avatar character as the main protagonist (instead of a secondary protagonist like Robin was in Awakening) leads to some really dumb hero worship stuff on the part of everyone else; it doesn’t help that Corrin is kind of a naive dupe with a bland good-guy personality and Azura is a mysterious waif whose main job is to be mysterious and deliver exposition (while praising the avatar character, naturally). Remember how I said I don’t much care for the waifu stuff? I’ll be honest, it’s fine, it’s whatever, it’s not totally the death of Fire Emblem as we know it even if it's also clearly pandering towards an audience that I'm not part of. But the thing about that that really puts the nail in the coffin for me in regards to Fates’ stories is the ability to marry your siblings. Yeah, it pulls the “We’re not actually blood related!” thing with both families, which is cowardly, but I can’t help but feel it subverts one of the game’s main themes? Like, the whole thing with the game is that your character has to choose between his blood family and the family who raised him, so then making the blood family turn out to just be step-siblings and making all of your siblings fair game on the bone train (Westermarck effect be damned, I guess) gives me a pretty good idea of where the developers priorities were. Awakening’s main plot was kind of a mess, but at least it never tripped over its own themes. The grand irony of all of this is that it’s revealed that Azura is your cousin in Revelations and you can marry and have children with her no problem. Well, with real incest I guess it’s a real Fire Emblem game after all.

As for the rest of the writing, it’s usually good, though I think the general quality of supports is a little more inconsistent than Awakening. I dunno if that’s a script thing, or if it’s because 8-4 handled that game and Nintendo Treehouse handled this one, but there are a couple of character interactions that don’t fly at all, especially when you add in the part where everyone can marry everyone else (As a result, I tended to like the kid and platonic supports more, because they don’t need to end in “Hey, let’s get married!” every single time.) I imagine you’ll have your favorites, perhaps a waifu or three (I’m not gonna pretend I married Odin, Hana, and Shiro for their sweet, sweet pair-up bonuses but also I sorta did) but I think it would be cool if Nintendo didn’t feel pressured to have as much marriage or kids in the next Fire Emblem game. I guess there’s a group that’s totally into that now or something, but if that’s what they’re after there are far more consistent options out there that don’t have that pesky strategy game to slog through.

But hey, as a whole I like Fire Emblem Fates a lot. Revelation might’ve taken some of the wind out of my sails, and some of my internet friends can attest to the angry rants I’ve written in regards to the story, but as a complete package it’s a super neat thing that I appreciate exists in multiple forms for multiple types of fans. Obviously, my grognard sensibilities will always prefer Conquest the most, but Birthright is the Fire Emblem game for the rest of you and Revelation is the Fire Emblem game for people who really, really want more Fire Emblem. Now I feel kind of Fire Emblem’d out, to be honest. I might have to take a bit of a break from the series for a while. You know what that means… you don’t? Okay, fine. I’m going to finish that Kingdom Hearts blog I was writing before this madness even started. Expect it. Cherish it.

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Slag

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130 hours is a lot of Fire Emblem. Man that's a bummer revelations doesn't deliver

That being said I need to get this and probably finally admit to myself there's no way I'm finding a special edition anywhere at a semi-reasonable price. There's virtually zero chance of that version getting a reprint right @arbitrarywater ?

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deactivated-60dda8699e35a

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One of my biggest pet peeves regarding Awakening was when people would tell people they're not playing it right by playing it on casual. Come on man, just let people play how they want to.

Also, the fact that you can marry your sibling in this game is really damn weird, especially for a Nintendo game.

I'm also kind of disappointed to hear that the supposed 'golden path' kind of really sucks. I was against splitting the game into two at all in the first place, but I figured they would give it their all and make it really damn awesome since they went ahead and made three separate campaigns. I guess they had to make a compromise on the gameplay, since it's combining both games, but from the bits you described, the story just sounds really dumb. A curse that makes it so you can't tell the true enemy? That's what they came up with? Blah, whatever.

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jacksukeru

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I tried to get the collector's-special-whatever edition and thought I did, but then got an E-mail that said "NOPE, you weren't fast enough and we're not going to let you know until it's too late to get it from anywhere else either".

If it doesn't get restocked I think I'm just gonna throw my hands up and not play the game at all.

Awakening was, aside from trying that 3DS Ambassador one for a few hours, my first Fire Emblem. I play a lot of rpgs, but often burn out on them, so for Awakening to keep my interest (possibly by way of drip feeding its interesting character moments throughout the entire thing) all the way to the end was quite rare. It's also possible that the localization also helped, since I guess they rewrote it to the point where I didn't recognize all the typical callsigns of a typical Japanese translated dialogue (something that has become a pretty major pet peeve of mine lately) , so it felt more fresh, in a way.

Still, I totally did some grinding in that game, which eventually made the strategy part pretty inconsequential. While I ended up liking the character side stuff a lot, I somewhat regret not getting a more serious dose of the gameplay. Maybe if I do pick one up, it will be Conquest, for that reason.

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ArbitraryWater

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@loamlife: I think it's inarguable that Pokemon remains Nintendo's third wheel, though Fire Emblem clearly seems to be climbing up their totem pole with how well this one and Awakening did (In other words, there will still not be a new Metroid game anytime soon). I don't have a problem with Fire Emblem becoming a little more mainstream (I'd still struggle to call Fire Emblem "mainstream") as long as the actual strategy part isn't watered down. Conquest seems like proof that Intelligent Systems still has it, so I'm not too worried, though I think I've made my thoughts on the face rubbing and whatnot pretty clear.

@jesna:I played New Mystery before the translation patch was finished, so I didn't get much of the weird hero worship that surrounds Kris in that game.

@slag: My uncle works at Nintendo, and he told me there would be a reprint of the special edition and also the NX is going to have Halo 6 on it. In all seriousness, I pre-ordered my special edition in November and it was sold out a few hours later. I wouldn't count on it.

@random45: By all means, people can play on casual if they want. However, I reserve the right to say that Fire Emblem is a game designed around perma-death and playing it on casual mode makes it significantly less interesting from a strategic perspective. The story isn't good enough to be someone's driving reason to play this game.

@jacksukeru: I totally know what you mean when you say "typical Japanese translated dialogue" and Fates has some of that (whenever a character says "Big Brother!" I can't help but hear "Oniisan!" in my head), though the most obvious example might be Azura's songs. While the lady who does her voice does her best, there's an awkward cadence to them that reminds you they weren't originally written in English. Of course, 8-4 tweaking Awakening's script is one of the things the "Localization is censorship" camp likes to rail against, but I think it's generally better.

I've heard a few people say they won't get the game if they can't get the special edition, but honestly if you aren't super into Fire Emblem you're totally good just getting Birthright or Conquest. They're both full-size games and Conquest took me somewhere around 50 hours to beat.

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Rejizzle

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Your review echoes my sentiments exactly. In terms of actually gameplay this is some of the best in the series, but the story can't even execute on basic tropes. It's awful.

Also, it's great that there is more mission variety than just "rout the enemy," but there were a couple of times that I had no idea what my objective was. Like with Nina's (Nile's daughter) paralogue, the objective was don't let Nina escape, but doesn't tell me how to do that. Turns out you're just supposed to kill her (something every other FE game has trained me not to do with potential party members). This lead to 15 turns of me fumbling around. Am I dense, or are there a couple times when this game just doesn't explain itself properly?

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TheBlue

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@arbitrarywater: 130 hours is impressive. I'm clocking around 110 myself right now. I finished all three paths though I haven't gotten all of the kids yet as I'm distracted by other games. I look back on Conquest as the best of the three just from a strategy and map design standpoint. Oddly enough I thought Birthright had the most cohesive story of the bunch. Conquest literally explained and elaborated on nothing, Azura's powers came and went (literally) without regard, and no one's motivation or reason for being anywhere seemed justified. Revelation was fine I guess, the whole Valla curse is a bit hokey and certain events came out of nowhere just to serve as a plot event. Regardless, who plays Fire Emblem for the story, right?

I liked a lot of mechanical changes they made. They took Awakening's skill grind and made it much less absurd by not resetting levels. Though I'm not a fan of practically everyone having access to nearly every skill, enemies having their own skills and being able to pair up added a welcome new layer of strategy to the game.

But let's be honest. IS has used up their time travelling children mechanic. Their hyperbolic time dimension is a poor way to throw kids and inheritance in the game. If they're gonna keep putting kids into these games, then they gotta come up with something better. I'm currently playing FE4 and goddamn did that game do it right. Forget making a new game, just give me an FE4 remake with a proper english translation. Seriously, if anyone hasn't played that one I highly recommend it. I might write something about it when I've finished it. It's interesting to play that after Fates and see where a lot of what are becoming series staples get their start, and what later entries oddly omitted.

Anyway, good write up. Finding fans of the entire series is hard to come by these days.

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Nice write-up... that's a lot of Fire Emblem! I appreciate having a side-by-side-by-side comparison of the 3. I just finished Conquest (also on hard/classic) this past weekend, and while I need a FE break right now, I'm pretty sure I'll be up for at least one of the other 2 down the road. I was originally leaning Revelation, as on paper it sounds like the more interesting melding of gameplay styles, and also story (Birthright comes across as super straight-forward there). But from what you say that one may be kind of a mess, and Birthright may actually be the more solid game in general.

Anyway, I also liked Conquest a whole lot, pretty much for the same reasons you did. The story/characters were mostly a lot of nonsense, but the map design and other gameplay tweaks put it up there with the best FEs I've played (that's all the NA released ones and nothing else). I really like not having weapons degrade, and the new attack and guard stance mechanics are super slick- it's interesting how the enemies use them too. I also appreciated the challenge quite a bit, and tend to prefer not grinding in FE games, so that omission from Conquest sat just fine with me. All in all I'd say Conquest has become one of my favs in the series, and it's a series I like a lot. Good stuff!

(Also, as an aside, I've seen numerous people say Conquest chapters 17 and 25 are among the toughest. Maybe I'm just weird, but those didn't give me hardly any trouble, while others gave me a ton. Chapters 20 and 23 were among the toughest ones for me off the top of my head (damn that wind), along with chapter 10, which WAS tough. Anyway, kind of interesting how different chapters are harder for different people. /aside)

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redyoshi

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I just started Revelation and I can't disagree about your story gripes so far, Conquest especially was a big disappointment for me on that end. I was looking forward to a darker tone after going through Birthright but all of it was undone with that precious snowflake Corrin having a crisis of conscience every chapter. I really don't like that the game's story centers around the MU, and vastly preferred all of my older sibling characters on each side to my own stand-in. I think it could have been better if maybe Ryoma and Xander were the main character Lord types for their respective storylines kind of like Chrom was, with my Avatar playing the Robin instead of the way they went about it. Also with as many playable characters as it had, it was too easy for me to completely forget about a whole bunch of them and I felt like for every Orochi who really surprised me with how much I ended up liking them through their support conversations, there was a Setsuna who was very uninteresting.

Next time around I would prefer they go back to one focused story instead of having stuff spread out across three paths. I do appreciate that they took a crack at it, but the bad outweighed the good for me on the story end.

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mems1224

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I am someone completely new to Fire Emblem. Awakening was my first and I absolutely loved it. While the overall story was pretty generic I really liked a lot of the characters and the gameplay was really fun. Birthright has just been a big wet fart for me. Don't care about any characters and the story is just awful. The game feels really short and easy(I am playing on normal) even though I'm like 20 hours in.

I hope Conquest is better.

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ArbitraryWater

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@rejizzle: Yeah, if I hadn't watched some videos of people who had played the Japanese version, I wouldn't have known about Nina's (and Percy's) paralogue. I also know someone who complained about the volcano map in Birthright, where it doesn't really make it all that obvious which of the dragon veins you're supposed to activate to cross the lava (It's the side the statue orb is on)

@loamlife: I guess I haven't been paying enough attention outside of the already rabid (and I mean rabid) Fire Emblem fanbase to notice how excited the rest of the gaming population at large is about Fates. The series having a future after it was in doubt for a bit is a good sign for me, though I think it would be alright if Intelligent Systems made a legitimate Paper Mario or Advance Wars sequel instead of Sticker Star again and Code Name S.T.E.A.M.

@theblue: The Invisible Truths DLC came out today, and boy does that thing throw its own incredibly stupid monkey wrench into Fates' plot. (Oh hey, Owain, Inigo, and Severa all came to this world to help Corrin, which sure isn't reflected in the actual game's plot. Also Lilith, that dragon who you feed and then dies randomly in Birthright and Conquest as a cheap attempt at melodrama? She's your sister. Your pet sister.) While I don't mind the presence of the top 3 most popular kid and adult characters in Awakening (making Selena marry Subaki leads to a very Freudian mother-daughter support) did we really need an explanation? No, no we didn't. As for the kids, yeah, hyperbolic time babies is a really shoddy explanation for kids and if they're gonna keep putting them in these games they should at least bother to give a decent plot explanation instead of multiverse garbage.

Genealogy of the Holy War is a lot of fun though. I wouldn't mind a remake of that which aimed towards actually being somewhat balanced, but then again I'm not sure if I could deal with a game where Holsety doesn't give +20 Speed and Skill.

@majormitch:If you didn't like that wind map in Conquest, it's also in Revelation but you encounter it way earlier in the game, like Chapter 9 or something. Oh, and half of your units are slightly under-leveled if you don't grind. It's not as difficult as it is in Conquest, but it's far more tedious.

@redyoshi: Setsuna has a decent support with Niles, though on the whole I think her perpetually stoned/trap magnet shtick is dull (also her non-speed stats are bad and she only gets as far as she does in Birthright because Yumi are incredibly powerful). Arthur, on the other hand, is pretty much just as great as his voice acting implies despite having a similar reliance on a character trope (his constant misfortune).

@mems1224 If you want a harder Fire Emblem game, I think Conquest will fit that bill just fine. Don't expect the plot to be much better, though I do like the Nohr characters on balance more than their Hoshidan counterparts.

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Taesoawful

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I'm about 170 in FE myself (twice on conquest, twice on birthright, once on revelation), and Revelation feeling like an unbalanced romhack definitely made it my least favorite route. Especially the parts where they hand you severely underleveled units and revolve entire maps around having royals.

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veektarius

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I play this game off and on in short bursts and have generally enjoyed it. It's basically my second Fire Emblem game; I played an earlier one when I was much younger but didn't have the right mindset for it. While I beat awakenings on normal/classic, I've tried hard/casual for this one and on Birthright, at least, I can confirm that it doesn't present much of a tactical challenge except where I purposefully send underleveled or ineffective characters in order to get kids. On the other hand, I don't mind not having that experience of playing a level for an hour only to have a mental lapse and not realize the boss is carrying a bow he can kill my flying unit with in one hit. I probably should have taken on birthright on classic, but based on what people say, I'm not sure I'd have the patience to do so in conquest.

I actually kind of liked Awakenings' story, and this one has been kind of a drag by comparison. There are also an awful lot of really bland characters who are just obsessed with being strong and or perfect, and ones with actual personalities like Orochi, Azama, or Scarlet seem rare.

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Slag

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@slag:.. In all seriousness, I pre-ordered my special edition in November and it was sold out a few hours later. I wouldn't count on it.

Yeah I thought as much, but I figured I'd ask GB's biggest FE fan if I had any hope before giving up.

can't blame a guy for trying right? I didn't see the announcement until the next day on the November launch and I just missed finding one at a couple big box retailers by minutes.Very frustrating.

Gotta admit this sort of thing is what I hate most about Nintendo. They are still a toy company at heart in some respects and are not above going the Amiibo- Bullsh!t collectible scarcity route.

Glad Fates is good enough to get your stamp of approval though, that's all I need to hea I think my tastes more closely mirror yours than new ppl latching onto the system after Awakening.

Incidentally dunno if you have seen this as well but Birthright looks to me to be ancedotally selling 2-3 times as fast at conquest at least locally where I love. Conquest carts are easy to find. Difficulty issues aside I guess makes sense that Autobots would out sell Decepticons if you get my drift.