So I just finished a 26 page paper that was a midterm for a course I am taking in public administration. And boy it feels... okay. There was an initial sense of accomplishment and pride upon completion of the paper, but then the thoughts started popping into my head. I just did a 26 page dissertation on methods of management  and Max Weber. Why? Don't get me wrong, I don't mind writing papers, but what does this paper prove? What does it show that I have learned? If anything, it shows that I am able to regurgitate information and form it into coherent statements that can be (semi) carefully constructed into what constitutes academic achievement. But strangely, I don't feel like I have achieved anything outside of conquering my crippling procrastination yet another time to trudge towards the finality that is my degree. And what does that thing mean anymore? I find myself in a stage of moratorium, somewhere between figuring out what I want to do with my life and the means which I will employ to that end. Is a college degree the ticket?  
 
We've been taught from an early age that education is the only way out, that it is the clear path to success. Now, college tuition rates have increased drastically in the last two decades and show no signs of slowing down. I have friends graduating from schools with four year degrees and $80,000 of debt. There's no hope of paying off that loan even in the next 35 years. My generation is the supposed future of America, yet we will be up to our necks in debt by the time we turn 25. We have molded ourselves to an age old formula of producing young adults with college educations that is over a century old now. Our current education system arose out of a need to produce workers quickly and efficiently to meet the demands of growing industrialism. Do we still need to keep pumping out what is the manufacturing equivalent of a processed product? The general consensus is that students belong to the workforce before they even enter it. And while I am sitting around trying to figure out what I want to do, I'm racking up bills! It's enough to drive one mad, you know... 
 
So, I want you to share your experience with the American education system (or any education system, my international breddrin).  
 
Also, what's the longest paper you've ever written? 
 

I wrote an 80 page paper before, and had 20 pagers on a regular basis in undergrad.  Grad school was nicer, less reports and more practical work.
 
Good to be out of school, that's for sure.

I pretty much entirely agree with what you said, although I might not be in college (yet) I notice it too. I've said it in the past when the topic's been brought up that I feel that the system of schooling is old and does not fit in with todays society, it's crazy that it's still like this despite the achievements that have been made in ever other field.

Also, college builds discipline.

" Also, college builds discipline. "

" Also, college builds discipline. "

That's why you should get degrees that are worth a damn.

" That's why you should get degrees that are worth a damn. "

" @csl316 said:

" Also, college builds discipline. "

There are other ways to build discipline.   Like having a little self-discipline. "

" @csl316 said:

" Also, college builds discipline. "

College builds tolerance, not discipline. I learned discipline from my dad. I learned how to put up with tediousness in school. "

For me, the longest paper was only a mere 15 pages on Congressional aid for small businesses for participation in the Marshall Plan.  It was a research paper and the end made me feel a lot more satisfied than most other papers.  This wasn't my own analysis of an analysis found in a secondary source, but a paper written to sate my curiosity of a field that did not have a lot of literature written about it.  That fact that it was the sole grade point for a seminar was a mere side bonus.
 
The most I've ever actually written for college though was probably finals week during the fall semester of my junior year.  5 classes each with a finals paper of about 10 pages.  50-60 pages written within 4 days felt like an achievement, albeit of a very different kind.

" @csl316: I could, but then there would be absolutely no chance of getting a job. There has been a grand inflation of education in the past few decades. Where you once needed an associate's degree, you now need a bachelor's. Where you once needed a bachelor's degree, you now require a master's degree. And so on and so forth. And all along we are expected to foot the bill, either through scholarships, loans, or out of our own pockets.   There is no doubt I see the value in education, especially when the opposite of that has such dire consequences. I just feel that the manner in which we choose to educate is fundamentally flawed. That's all. "

26 pages is CRAZY. 
 
@csl316 said:

" I wrote an 80 page paper before, and had 20 pagers on a regular basis in undergrad.  Grad school was nicer, less reports and more practical work.  Good to be out of school, that's for sure. "

" @BigLemon said:

" @csl316: I could, but then there would be absolutely no chance of getting a job. There has been a grand inflation of education in the past few decades. Where you once needed an associate's degree, you now need a bachelor's. Where you once needed a bachelor's degree, you now require a master's degree. And so on and so forth. And all along we are expected to foot the bill, either through scholarships, loans, or out of our own pockets.   There is no doubt I see the value in education, especially when the opposite of that has such dire consequences. I just feel that the manner in which we choose to educate is fundamentally flawed. That's all. "

It really depends.  I find that having connections is more worthwhile.  And if you're adventurous enough, you can do everything yourself.  I got a master's but a few of my friends that skipped college are making plenty more than me.  One guy got a 6 month certification in something and is pushing $75,000 plus commission.  Another guy got into the health care industry without any schooling and is pushing $100k working 4 hours a day (and starting his own business on the side).  Hell, my old boss was a high school drop out and he's making millions.   Sure, college may be the normal thing to do.  But it's not the only path.  Granted, some fields (law, medicine, etc.) will always require school.  If you don't see value in your education, maybe you should look at a different major. "

" 26 pages is CRAZY. 
 
@csl316 said:

" I wrote an 80 page paper before, and had 20 pagers on a regular basis in undergrad.  Grad school was nicer, less reports and more practical work.  Good to be out of school, that's for sure. "

That's even CRAZIER!   "

" @csl316 said:

" @BigLemon said:

" @csl316: I could, but then there would be absolutely no chance of getting a job. There has been a grand inflation of education in the past few decades. Where you once needed an associate's degree, you now need a bachelor's. Where you once needed a bachelor's degree, you now require a master's degree. And so on and so forth. And all along we are expected to foot the bill, either through scholarships, loans, or out of our own pockets.   There is no doubt I see the value in education, especially when the opposite of that has such dire consequences. I just feel that the manner in which we choose to educate is fundamentally flawed. That's all. "

It really depends.  I find that having connections is more worthwhile.  And if you're adventurous enough, you can do everything yourself.  I got a master's but a few of my friends that skipped college are making plenty more than me.  One guy got a 6 month certification in something and is pushing $75,000 plus commission.  Another guy got into the health care industry without any schooling and is pushing $100k working 4 hours a day (and starting his own business on the side).  Hell, my old boss was a high school drop out and he's making millions.   Sure, college may be the normal thing to do.  But it's not the only path.  Granted, some fields (law, medicine, etc.) will always require school.  If you don't see value in your education, maybe you should look at a different major. "

Mhmm, you make a great point. I see those people in my life, too. Yet no high school would ever tell its students, "Hey, don't go to college. Matter of fact, drop out of high school." When I was first considering college, I wanted to go to culinary school. I was surprised at how hard it was to find information on trade schools. On college visit day, it was always four year degree, liberal arts and research colleges that had representatives. It's sending a message that this is the only option out there, when the reality is that there are lots of different options. "

" @csl316: I just wonder what kind of insane teacher/TAs would want to grade papers that were 80 pages long. Even 26 pages seems like it's pushing it, especially given the size of some college classes (I'd guess that a class with 80 page assignments would probably be smaller, but still probably 20-something people, so that'd be 1,600 pages if everyone wrote an 80 page paper).  "

We were recently discussing pedagogy in my Social Inequality class and the meanings of knowledge and education came up. Undoubtedly, an education does not equal knowledge, and vice versa. I do think those who actively participate in school do gain knowledge, but there are courses and teachers who only expect information regurgitation. Students passively going through school without expressing their ideas, engaging different ideas, and applying these ideas to the real world and making connections, gain nothing. All of this is fairly complicated and has been written about in hundreds of books, so I digress.
 
Anyway, longest paper I've written was about 20 pages long, surprisingly in high school. Taught me about researching, formatting, and how to do citations, etc.

damn that is crazy. the longest i wrote was 5 page one. it was about earth quakes, for my natural disasters class.  i don't even know how i made it that long. i find it crazy that you have to write a 26 page. i don't think i could pull that off. 
 
so tell me how do you write so long papers?

I actually really enjoy papers, I see them as a chance to engage in my own critical thought. Maybe you have to write papers that are just regurgitation but mine usually call for a lot of independent analysis/research. 

" We were recently discussing pedagogy in my Social Inequality class and the meanings of knowledge and education came up. Undoubtedly, an education does not equal knowledge, and vice versa. I do think those who actively participate in school do gain knowledge, but there are courses and teachers who only expect information regurgitation. Students passively going through school without expressing their ideas, engaging different ideas, and applying these ideas to the real world and making connections, gain nothing. All of this is fairly complicated and has been written about in hundreds of books, so I'll stop.   Anyway, longest paper I've written was about 20 pages long, surprisingly in high school. Taught me about researching, formatting, and how to do citations, etc. "

" I actually really enjoy papers, I see them as a chance to engage in my own critical thought. Maybe you have to write papers that are just regurgitation but mine usually call for a lot of independent analysis/research.  "  

" We were recently discussing pedagogy in my Social Inequality class and the meanings of knowledge and education came up. Undoubtedly, an education does not equal knowledge, and vice versa. I do think those who actively participate in school do gain knowledge, but there are courses and teachers who only expect information regurgitation. Students passively going through school without expressing their ideas, engaging different ideas, and applying these ideas to the real world and making connections, gain nothing. All of this is fairly complicated and has been written about in hundreds of books, so I digress. Anyway, longest paper I've written was about 20 pages long, surprisingly in high school. Taught me about researching, formatting, and how to do citations, etc. "

Well I dont want to get involved with the great debate on the value of education, I would like to comment about your comment on what you gained from writing that paper. It is clearly meant to be tedious and long, and you completing it shows you can get something tedious and long done. You were able to gather information from different sources about a specific topic and (hopefully) created a piece of work that shows you did just that accurately. It is helping you develop a skill that you might have to use in your future career. The longest paper I have written has been around 10 pages or so for a gen ed writing class, I am finishing up the last of my writing classes this semester and will hopefully not have that many more papers in my college career since the rest of my courses will be programming and math. I really enjoy writing, so I am not dreading any papers I will have to do, they are just a pain because they take up so much time.  

I'm only in high school, but my longest paper so far is 15 pages.

Art History has been the worst for me..

Im in High School still but ive had to write 2 12 pagers

I can say that I recall what my longest paper was.  But this thread makes me laugh because the other day my brother-in-law was telling me how he wants to go back to school but hated writing 1000 word papers.  I tried telling him 1000 words is nothing. 
 
Regarding tuition and loans, I feel your pain.  I was lucky in that I finished my 4 year with only $27k in loans.  But now I'm looking at law school, which is $35k per year.  I'll end up owing nearly as much in schooling as I owe for my mortgage.

" I can say that I recall what my longest paper was.  But this thread makes me laugh because the other day my brother-in-law was telling me how he wants to go back to school but hated writing 1000 word papers.  I tried telling him 1000 words is nothing.  Regarding tuition and loans, I feel your pain.  I was lucky in that I finished my 4 year with only $27k in loans.  But now I'm looking at law school, which is $35k per year.  I'll end up owing nearly as much in schooling as I owe for my mortgage. "

If I remember, my undergrad thesis was around 28, not including appendix and references. And that was concise writing. Grad school papers range way higher count. I just refuse to acknowledge the count now.

I've always found the American education system a bit scary. I can't imagine having to put myself into such absurd amounts of debt just to get a degree. I guess it's just me being spoiled with our public education system. I mean, I get PAID by the Finnish government on a monthly basis to study (through student financial aid). It feels good to know that when I eventually start working for real I'll be completely debt free.
 
Currently, I'm just about done writing my thesis for my business adminstration degree. A total of around 30 pages or so. I can't say that it feels like much of an accomplishment either, but I will be very glad to put it behind me. Writing it has been a total chore.

" I've always found the American education system a bit scary. I can't imagine having to put myself into such absurd amounts of debt just to get a degree. I guess it's just me being spoiled with our public education system. I mean, I get PAID by the Finnish government on a monthly basis to study (through student financial aid). It feels good to know that when I eventually start working for real I'll be completely debt free. Currently, I'm just about done writing my thesis for my business adminstration degree. A total of around 30 pages or so. I can't say that it feels like much of an accomplishment either, but I will be very glad to put it behind me. Writing it has been a total chore. "

I've had a few 15-pagers so far in undergrad, but nothing over 20, for sure. That said, I'm a poli. sci./English lit. double major, and most lit. papers don't go beyond 10 pages or so (depending on if they require research or not, really). I feel your paper pain, man. Sometimes they can be really enjoyable, but I find the research heavy papers to be a bit of a drag. I once wrote a 15 page poli. sci. paper that required 25+ sources - quite a bummer.

 Having just finished this article (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/04/nyregion/04remedial.html?_r=1&ref=education) from the NYT, I will say it is not small accomplishment to have the level of education and expertise you have. 

Thinking back, as other have done here, I think I wrote about six to eight papers per semester for undergraduate school.  Most of those papers/theses were over six pages and usually two each semester over 12-16 pages.   I recall at least a few times writing papers over 15 pages.   I was an English major so maybe my situation was atypical.

For my first graduate school experience for a Master in Education I wrote countless short papers 5-8 pages and three 20+ page projects over 18 months.   However, I only spent that 18 months in what was a 3 year program, leaving  before I had to start my 'research thesis' which would have been a 60-100 page hell-on-earth endeavor.

My second graduate school experience for a Master of Library Science was three years of going to school full time and working nearly full time too. Again nearly, every class I had each semester required one or more big projects. In the case of library school, we generated far more REAL WORLD projects, mock-ups of materials we would be doing in the works place - reports, policy manuals, procedure manuals, etc.   Some of my computer classes were far more like tech school where we would be wiring a network, setting up a database, creating a web site with multiple linked pages, etc.  Thankfully, I didn't have to write a huge research thesis for Library School.

I don't think I've ever done any school work that required more than 5 pages. I suck at writing but I'm a master of copy-pasting and moving the words around so it doesn't look copied. ;)

" "I don't mind writing papers, but what does this paper prove? What does it show that I have learned? If anything, it shows that I am able to regurgitate information and form it into coherent statements that can be (semi) carefully constructed into what constitutes academic achievement." 
 

 Having just finished this article (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/04/nyregion/04remedial.html?_r=1&ref=education) from the NYT, I will say it is not small accomplishment to have the level of education and expertise you have. 

"