• A miserable wow clone that adds nothing new
• Terrible optimization on all machines
• Warzones are slidehows
• Flashpoints are boring
• Animations are a joke at best
• The user interface is terrible to use
• Ability cooldowns are tied to the animations
• Gathering has no interaction with the environment at all
• Crafting is unsatisfying and some professions are completely worthless
• Everything is instanced ruining MMO feeling
• Horrible faciton imbalance

• Armor design is uninspired
• Reused Armor with different colors is not new bioware
• Classes are not unique and are hard to tell the difference
• Cutscenes are pointless and add nothing to the gameplay
• No endgame what so ever
• Bugs everywhere that cripple the game
• Horrible customer support (end of line etc.)
• Low populations across all servers as game is slowly dying

http://www.torstatus.net/shards/us/stats as you can see there is a slow downward trend of population across all servers

http://www.mmo-junkies.net/statistics/ even more statistics supporting the slow descent of swtor

• The Hero engine is terrible
• .5 second ability delay built into the engine so it's not fixable
• Companion romances are pointless add nothing to the game
• High res textures are now "Cutscene textures" so now medium is "High"
• Promised new combat system but is the same system
• Auction house is horrible to use and strictly regulated
• Bioware desperate trying to keep players paying for their subpar game aka http://www.swtor.com/info/founders
• Bioware charging players multiple times for no reason just like with WaR trying to siphon as much cash from their dwindling players
• Making people pay monthly for a single player experience
• Gameworld is empty with almost no player barely seen
• World is dreadfully static, plastic even in some places
• Class stories swing wildly from good to terrible
• Bioware removing the un-sub button

Addendum By Neeshka

"1) ZERO addon and macro support: every new mmo seems to have this nowadays; imagine how awful healing is without mouseover macros .....

2) No combat log - basically means I randomly die on a boss fight and there's no way of knowing how I died. Was it a death to a lack of heals ? was it an encounter mechanic ? was it flawed personal play ? There's just no way of knowing for sure.

3) Mainly a consequence of the above : No dps meters. There's no way to tell where your raid needs to improve; which dps is just dragging their weight and which ones are doing well.

Another major issue is the difficulty in finding groups because of the lack of a dungeon or raid finder like WoW or even Rift. Spamming a chat channel for groups is something very archaic and dated. And it simply doesn't work efficiently."

Regarding the community Neeshka nails it again

"Summary of the TOR fanbase (sorry if this offends anyone that isn't my intention):

1) very casual gamers that don't particularly want to raid or participate in any serious multiplayer content. Mainly single player content; levelling multiple alts and the very very occasional group content is totally ok with them. Also there's casual gamers that are just looking for a change of setting from WoW, but are ok with very similar gameplay with lightsabers. This is probably the most reasonable demographic but also the least vocal.

2) washed out WoW raiders that harbor some kind of grudge against WoW = these are the mmo rejects; the people sick of being "treated awfully" in other mmo's; but sadly they are treated awfully because they are utterly awful at such games. They think "it's just a video game" so they don't care to or are too lazy to spend 10-15 minutes to improve themselves. You'll find that such people will be up in arms against combat logs and dps meters, and usually any kind of gearscore type addon. This subset also includes anyone that holds a grudge against WoW; since it's easy to scapegoat a video game for whatever personal problems you have.

3) Fanatically loyal star wars fans, also the leftover community from star wars galaxies - these include the extremely peculiar LARPers, the people almost at the point of practicing a jedi religion and the "lore nerd" types - people that have read EVERYTHING in the extended universe. Such people will naturally like anything with star wars in it.

4) Fanatically loyal bioware fans. I used to like bioware games but this is something else. These people absolutely adore dragon age 2, and have detailed discussions where they obsess over the romance mini-games in ME/DA, and proceed to fantasize about their waifus (sp?).

You can quite easily gauge which response is from which group of fans. Anyhow it's become a hobby of mine to look at the TOR forums on occasion to see these "biodrones" in action and they do quite often say quite amusing things. Here's a blog site on tumblr with some of the highlights : http://biodronesdarndest.tumblr.com/"

Zelyre shares some of his experience with swtor

"Technically, this game is all over the place.

Performance wise, a 4.9ghz core i5 with a 5870 with 2 gigs of ram shouldn't be running at single digits at 1920x1200, let alone 1680x1050. Tilting the camera 5-10 degrees in any direction returns my frame rate to a silky smooth, v-sync cap'ed 60.

Areas just feel... empty. Like a whole zone was created for myself and my friend. Sure, there are 142 instances of Alderaan running right now, but the one I'm in? Its so empty...

The medium quality textures sucks. The game looks really nice during cut scenes with the high quality textures.

The auction house is unusable. Seriously, this is a huge problem. Free to play games have better auction systems and if I weren't playing with someone else, would be the deal breaker for me. I've been looking to upgrade my belt on my sith warrior. I know I use strength and endurance. I know it's a heavy slot of armor. I know it sits in the belt slot. I want to see what's in the level 30-33 range for belts. All I can do is limit my search to heavy armor, range 30-33. Oh boy. I have to look through 12 pages of armor. 9 of which aren't belts. 2 of which are belts for bounty hunters. While I'm looking for a belt, OH SNAP, my companion returns from his/her mission and all the windows go away! Time to start digging through that pile of armor. Again.

The UI is also silly large. Why it wasn't configurable from the get go is beyond me. The chat window gets in the way of combat. If I need to click on a mob/player, I've accidentally clicked the chat window numerous times. Every time I level, I have to redo hot bars because the game auto places new abilities in my side bar overwriting or simply removing the trinkets, med kits, and stims I've put there."

I really wanted swtor to be great but in it's current state, it's just not feasible to give these people your money with so many problems across the board.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o08e_xlXAVc

So get to a lifeboat and may god be with you.

What do you mean "Warzones are slidehows, Horrible faciton imballance, and Classes are not unique and are hard to tell the difference?

Though I don't like the game as much as WoW, warzones are not slides shows (i'm guessing you mean frame rate) I have a mid-range pc and it runs on ultra fine. Faction imbalance...well the classes are mirrors on both sides...maybe better players choose one faction generally but there's nothing that can be done about that, and classes are unique I was able to tell which was which within a day of pvp.

Again I don't really like this game so much but its not a bad/broken game. I'm just falling out of love with mmo's.

I disagree the cutscenes don't add anything. I could never get into any MMOs like WoW before this game and the story is 100% responsible for that. I just feel a lot more attached to my character and the choices I make. Though, I haven't played in a while that's just because I've been busy with school. Spring break is going to be me and TOR all week long!

Well this is sure to be productive.

I actually admire his straight-forwardness.

No Internet passive aggressive bullshit here, no siree! Just pure seething hate!

I just want to know how much money they made (ie. lost).

@Bongos said:

• A half assed shitty wow clone
• Terrible optimization
• Warzones are slidehows
• Flashpoints are boring
• Horrible faciton imballance

• Armor design is uninspired
• Reused Armor with different colors is not new bioware
• Classes are not unique and are hard to tell the difference
• Cutscenes are pointless and add nothing to the gameplay
• No endgame what so ever
• Bugs everywhere that cripple the game
• Horrible customer support (end of line etc.)
• Low populations across all servers as game is slowly dying

http://www.torstatus.net/shards/us/stats as you can see there is a slow downward trend of population across all servers as people see the failure of swtor it is

• The Hero engine is terrible
• .5 second ability delay built into the engine so is not fixable

I really wanted swtor to be great but in it's current state, it's just no feasible to give these people your money with so many problems across the board.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o08e_xlXAVc

So get to a lifeboat and may god be with you.

First of all, get that tortanic shit out of here, it's dumb.

Now. You've got a lot of wrong shit there.

Half assed WoW clone? - Opinion

Terrible optimization? - I'm not having issues running the game maxed out

Warzones are slideshows? - Not for me

Flashpoints are boring? - Opinion

Horrible faction imbalance? - Yes, there is

Armor design is uninspired - Opinion

Reused armor with different colors is not new? - This is something that is in all MMOs, and will continue to be in all MMOs.(It's even in some single player RPGs)

Classes are not unique? - What?

Cutscenes are pointless and add nothing to the gameplay? - Opinion/playstyle choice

No endgame what so ever? - Absolute lie. Multiple raids, PVP planet, multiple warzones, and every flashpoint in hard mode.

Bugs everywhere that cripple the game? - There are definitely bugs, but none that absolutely cripple the game to the point of being unplayable. They are mostly minor.

Horrible customer support? - I wouldn't know, I haven't contacted them before. But if it's anything like other MMOs, it just takes a long time

Low populations across all servers as game is slowly dying? - Wrong. The game consistently has heavy/very heavy/full for most of the servers everyday.(Obviously there are drops, especially after free month.)

Hero Engine is terrible? - Seems fine to me.

.5 second ability delay built into the engine so it's not fixable? - Wrong. Read the patch notes, and the announcment. It's fixed in next patch.

Why I shouldn't buy SWTOR: I'm a poor college student and a monthly fee is far beyond my grasp at this point.

You're free to have whatever opinion you want man, but only a rough average of about 2% drop off on most servers after the free month was over is a pretty good stat to me.

@Encephalon said:

I actually admire his straight-forwardness.

No Internet passive aggressive bullshit here, no siree! Just pure seething hate!

I like it.

Your FACE is pretty horrible and why you shouldn't buy it.

The real reasons for people not buying this game are as follows:

• They're not interested.
• They don't have the money (the game and/or subscription)

That's basically what it boils down to. Fuck you.

Sounds like your PC sucks. Get a new one and stop QQ-ing on the internet.

Sounds like your PC sucks. Get a new one and stop QQ-ing on the internet.

@ArbitraryWater said:

Why I shouldn't buy SWTOR: I'm a poor college student and a monthly fee is far beyond my grasp at this point.

I can't agree more.

If I ever buy this game it will be a year from now when people are talking about how "this and this is so much better now". I'm not so sure I expect that to happen though. If it wasn't Star Wars I would've already moved on for good, but my interest remains tepid.

Sounds like your PC sucks. Get a new one and stop QQ-ing on the internet.

OP you forgot a few really important issues with the game that cripple any kind of serious PvE end-game:

1) ZERO addon and macro support: every new mmo seems to have this nowadays; imagine how awful healing is without mouseover macros .....

2) No combat log - basically means I randomly die on a boss fight and there's no way of knowing how I died. Was it a death to a lack of heals ? was it an encounter mechanic ? was it flawed personal play ? There's just no way of knowing for sure.

3) Mainly a consequence of the above : No dps meters. There's no way to tell where your raid needs to improve; which dps is just dragging their weight and which ones are doing well.

Another major issue is the difficulty in finding groups because of the lack of a dungeon or raid finder like WoW or even Rift. Spamming a chat channel for groups is something very archaic and dated. And it simply doesn't work efficiently.

In the end, if you are looking for a competitive PvP scene or a meaningful PvE end-game centered around balanced and challenging boss encounters that are well designed and complicated; TOR is NOT a good idea. Neither is it good if you are a very casual gamer who just wants to log on, participate in multiplayer groups/raids for a bit, then log off.

If you are looking for a mainly single player experience and like the more recent bioware RPGs, you might like the levelling part of the game. But then why pay a subscription is the first place ? Perhaps if you are a washed out WoW casual raider looking for a "fresh" new setting with mostly WoW-ish gameplay TOR might be ok. Otherwise steer clear of this dung heap. Bioware seems to have attracted a large number of very loyal and sometimes downright bizarre fans; and they along with the SWG crowd will probably keep the game afloat for a few months. Any kind of criticism directed against TOR seems to be met with "go back to WoW", "but those problems don't affect me", "lol opinions", "but I'm having fun", "the game just came out it will be patched" or similar responses; so I wouldn't be worried about those.

Titanic and Hindenburg references are quite amusing; please continue.

So brave.

@Neeshka said:

1) ZERO addon and macro support: every new mmo seems to have this nowadays; imagine how awful healing is without mouseover macros .....

What is this, 2004? Why can't anyone other than Blizzard build in some fucking addon support for their MMOs? So that way it doesn't matter how shitty your out of box UI is because it can all be changed. It blows my mind how other MMO developers haven't caught on to this.

Nah a lot of other mmo devs do it; Rift has addon support for example. I'm pretty sure lord of the rings online and Eve have some addon api support as well. Bioware just completely ignored addons/combat logs almost intentionally. It's strange that this isn't talked about that much.

@Grimluck343 said:

So brave.

@Neeshka said:

1) ZERO addon and macro support: every new mmo seems to have this nowadays; imagine how awful healing is without mouseover macros .....

What is this, 2004? Why can't anyone other than Blizzard build in some fucking addon support for their MMOs? So that way it doesn't matter how shitty your out of box UI is because it can all be changed. It blows my mind how other MMO developers haven't caught on to this.

RIFT has a very good addon support, but nobody plays that game :/

It's really fun with friends and i'm enjoying the story side.
However, the UI is pretty poor and the lack of a combat log is weak.
It is overstated how bad the bugs are or how poorly optimised the game is; it runs fine for me and I've little problem running it on max settings.
I have had multiple problems with the launcher though.
I want to see how the story plays out before I consider spending more money on the game, as so far that has been the only thing keeping me playing.
It is a decent take on the MMO genre, but I can't see it keeping me hooked. The sever population does seem low, but as soon as encounter over 15 or so players it seems to take a dip. I heard this was the reason the 'high' texture option defaults to medium :/

I get the feeling most people that really enjoyed it would have enjoyed it as a single-player bioware game all the same.
Which is fine, but that makes the monthly fee seem even more rotten.

I really enjoy it, but for those hating remember its new its only been open since December the 20! Why are people so impatient?

No combat log strikes me as a major "wtf" thing. It's especially odd considering that Bioware has a long history of rpg's with, you guessed it, combat logs. You aren't going to keep many people around if they don't think you are worth their subscription fee. I hope they fix the problems and fill their own little niche in the market though.

@Liber said:

@Grimluck343 said:

So brave.

@Neeshka said:

1) ZERO addon and macro support: every new mmo seems to have this nowadays; imagine how awful healing is without mouseover macros .....

What is this, 2004? Why can't anyone other than Blizzard build in some fucking addon support for their MMOs? So that way it doesn't matter how shitty your out of box UI is because it can all be changed. It blows my mind how other MMO developers haven't caught on to this.

RIFT has a very good addon support, but nobody plays that game :/

It didn't at launch, when did they add it? I would love to go check that game out again.

Looks like the Bioware Defence Force has assembled.

Why are you guys even responding to this thread ?

@Bongos said:

• Cutscenes are pointless and add nothing to the gameplay

I'm curious which games you play where the cutscenes add something to the gameplay.

Troll.

i was going to buy this today on my way home from work, but based on what you say i think i won't bother now.

thanks for the warning xx

And yet I'm having the time of my life with it!
 
When will people learn that not everyone (should) think the same?

I really enjoyed the first Flashpoint, which is the only time it's felt like they tried something interesting and also the only time it's felt anything like a KOTOR game. Everything I've played single player so far has been terrible, the quests have been terrible, the gameplay is terrible (also hella clunky) and nothing that's happening makes any sense in the context of the universe or for my character/s.

You sure do hate this game a lot for someone who quite obviously hasn't played it.

@GunslingerPanda said:

Looks like the Bioware Defence Force has assembled.

I suppose the fact that we actually speak in cogent points rather than scream in seething indignation may make it seem like we're better organized.

And I suppose that's true. You didn't even get the memo that you people are supposed to be calling us "Biodrones" now.

I like a video game so I guess I'm a bad person.
 
I guess I should ask /v what video games it's okay for me to enjoy.

So many things wrong with the things listed that is mostly user error. I really glad these bitches aren't playing a great game.

@JustKamToo said:

I really enjoy it, but for those hating remember its new its only been open since December the 20! Why are people so impatient?

Because it's been in development for about 3 years, and still plays like it's a beta. Off-topic, but if Blizzard pulls this shit with Diablo 3, which has been in the works even longer, I think I'll be done with them as well.

The OP never stated any of these as facts, yet Biodrones (thanks Starving, that does have a nice ring to it) are quick to rush in and aggressively defend their opinion (again, not fact). Anecdotal testimony to your rig running fine doesn't diminish that other people are having trouble running this game properly.

It's funny that anyone who's harshly defending the game fails to counter-argue the lack of macros and combat logs, which is a pretty big deal. Would I be correct to assume this is most of those peoples' first MMO, or just really didn't very far in wow/rift/etc?

What I take out of this is it's not a game for whiny people or elitists. I'm glad to not see both while I play it. 
Game is fun as hell for me- I'm sorry you hate it more then a bag of acid dropped on your head though. There's probably another MMO out there better suited to your tastes.

Neeshka has some good points. yikes.

well at least a yike from me as a once hardcore WoW player. maybe with a more casual play style those omissions are fine.

without numbers it seems impossible to get an optimal rotation or know if you are truly doing well. all guess work.

not against casual play at all, in fact its what i would prefer nowadays but with how much of a clone this is, it seems odd to leave it out.

maybe its for the best though as i haven't played SWOTR, not sure how simple they want the game to be. if no one is having trouble with raids, i can't claim this to be totally bad.

I'm going to pretend that this was just an attempt to troll CL60, and I think the OP succeeded.

I haven't played the game yet and don't really care about MMOs, but your list seems pretty nitpicky at best. Haha.

@GunslingerPanda said:

Looks like the Bioware Defence Force has assembled.

I laughed a little too hard at this because it's true.

@Buzzkill said:

@GunslingerPanda said:

Looks like the Bioware Defence Force has assembled.

I laughed a little too hard at this because it's true.

I don't get it. The OP is allowed to make his criticisms because they are his opinion, but cannot other people come to the defense of the game? If someone likes a game why can't they defend it without being made fun as "biodrones" and the lot. This has really come to annoy me over the past couple of weeks.

Summary of the TOR fanbase (sorry if this offends anyone that isn't my intention):

1) very casual gamers that don't particularly want to raid or participate in any serious multiplayer content. Mainly single player content; levelling multiple alts and the very very occasional group content is totally ok with them. Also there's casual gamers that are just looking for a change of setting from WoW, but are ok with very similar gameplay with lightsabers. This is probably the most reasonable demographic but also the least vocal.

2) washed out WoW raiders that harbor some kind of grudge against WoW = these are the mmo rejects; the people sick of being "treated awfully" in other mmo's; but sadly they are treated awfully because they are utterly awful at such games. They think "it's just a video game" so they don't care to or are too lazy to spend 10-15 minutes to improve themselves. You'll find that such people will be up in arms against combat logs and dps meters, and usually any kind of gearscore type addon. This subset also includes anyone that holds a grudge against WoW; since it's easy to scapegoat a video game for whatever personal problems you have.

3) Fanatically loyal star wars fans, also the leftover community from star wars galaxies - these include the extremely peculiar LARPers, the people almost at the point of practicing a jedi religion and the "lore nerd" types - people that have read EVERYTHING in the extended universe. Such people will naturally like anything with star wars in it.

4) Fanatically loyal bioware fans. I used to like bioware games but this is something else. These people absolutely adore dragon age 2, and have detailed discussions where they obsess over the romance mini-games in ME/DA, and proceed to fantasize about their waifus (sp?).

You can quite easily gauge which response is from which group of fans. Anyhow it's become a hobby of mine to look at the TOR forums on occasion to see these "biodrones" in action and they do quite often say quite amusing things. Here's a blog site on tumblr with some of the highlights : http://biodronesdarndest.tumblr.com/

Alright you sold me. I will never EVER buy bongo's. Happy now?

Having one leveling path per faction is kinda awful. Alts in this game are painful. (This coming from someone who had 9 max level characters in World of Warcraft.) I DO NOT WANT TO DO CORUSCANT AGAIN. (Or Dormund Kass.) Wasn't the whole 'You can have 8 different stories! Uber-replayability!' supposed to be a selling point?

Oh, having no ability to change advanced class is questionable. I played a Vanguard, but if I want to try Commando not only do I have to do the same leveling path I ALSO have to do the same class quests over.

From what I have seen and what really turns me off is that I do not want to pay 15 bucks a month for what looks like a single player game. MMO means I see people constantly. See chat and people looking for groups. I am in groups. I get to interact with people non stop. From all I have gathered this is not what is offered here. They have made a singleplayer game you CAN interact with people with. But still have to pay monthly for.