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mesoian

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On poor humor...

I've been in a fairly fowl mood ever since last night and find myself in the awkward position of not being able to drown my mind in music, work or games in order to silence it all. It seems that, somewhere over the span of the past who-knows-when, people became unable to discern a joke from a statement. It feels like whenever this happens, the offending joke is rarely "offending", it's more the attitudes of each side that drives me up the wall.
 
What started all this was the current Rape-Joke controversy that penny-arcade is currently embroiled within. To make a dumb story short, last year, Penny arcade made a joke about people being raped to sleep by "dickwolves" a monster that they created that has the body of a wolf, but all of its limbs are each an erect phallus. A particular member of the game development community (I will leave names out since that was part of the problem) took offense, wrote emails, and then put up a lengthy diatribe explaining why Penny Arcade is bad and why we should all feel bad for reading it.  Up until this part of the story, I really didn't care and honestly couldn't be bothered to analyze either side. It's a comic strip, not even that funny of one, where the aspect of rape is used as an adjective to the plot, not a result or a cause. It literally is something that has no merit. 
 
it's the next part of the story that really gets on my nerves. The following day (or interval, whatever), another strip was put up which seem like a sort of snarky response towards said diatribe, dismissing it in a very callous way. Poor form, but not the worst thing that has ever happened. The response from said bloggist was to put a series of blog posts on why rape is bad (which to this day is at 52. FIFTY TWO LENGTHY BLOG POSTS ABOUT WHY RAPE IS BAD, AS IF WE DON'T KNOW), many of which still point fingers at Penny Arcade in being rape apologists. Afterwards, Penny Arcade produces a tee-shirt/hoodie combo with a dickwolves logo on it and sells it, making the shirt a symbol of solidarity for penny arcade. Now this isn't necessarily bad, but without taking care of the previous issues, its easy to see why people could take offense. After all, without nipping this in the bud well and early on, you could make the argument that anyone wearing a dickwolves t-shirt is okay with rape. So that was poorly handled. BUT THEN, one certain bloggist makes DICKWOLF SURVIVOR t-shirts in an effort to combat against penny arcade and raise more awareness that the site and anyone associated with it are rape apologists. 
 
And it was about at this point where I started to wonder when the world had lost it's god damn mind and if we could ever get it back.  Everything in the aforementioned paragraph is fucking childish, petty, BULLSHIT.
 
I understand how this happens. Groups based in comedy are always looking to push the envelop, so they come up with things that aren't in the best taste. Sometimes those things get popular and are emulated by those who subscribe to the source material. it's commonplace; it's the stuff that memes are made of. And there will always be people who fly off the handle and take it too seriously, calling for a stop to it all so more feelings don't get hurt. Hell, Tipper Gore was famous for it during the rap revolution of the late 80's/early 90's. This won't be the last time it ever happens. 
 
I feel though, as a species approximately 5000 years into modern civilization, that we need to cope with our feelings a little better than this. I don't make apologies for either side. I like the penny arcade guys, I think the things they've done for hospitalized children through their child's play charity is wonderful. And I've seen and revere the works of a few of these offended bloggers (hell, I've been to the offices of one in the not too distant past as we live in the same city and we're both in the biz). The point where both sides could come away looking like rational adults who have a disparaging opinion has long since past. What we have now are petty, stupid, he-said, she-did, I'm so smart so you should listen to me, you don't know what you're talking about so you're opinion is invalid, bickering non-sense. And it has to stop. 
 
If the penny arcade guys wanted the dickwolves to be a great logo for the site, they should have provided it with more background regarding the symbol. I know it's similar to a sports logo and it's not that out of the question thinking of it as a sort of "The fighting dickwolves" type deal which is why the whole thing comes off as lazier than it should. It wouldn't have been hard for those two to come up with something. Hell, the dickwolves was the name for the official PA WOW Guild for a while, THAT IS REASON ENOUGH!  Without it, the entire notion of dickwolves comes off as ambiguous and potentially offensive, and can be PR suicide for your COMPANY which is something you need to think about before you start marketing things (I'm often amazed by some of the shirts that come out from enthusiast sites, and more by the people who actually wear them in public).  If the woman who was the most vocal in all this wanted to be taken seriously, she shouldn't have marketed a counter product in order to feast on the sympathies of people in similar situations. It makes you look opportunistic and crass to the actual issue at hand, which submarines your whole point since she claims to be a survivor herself. And generalizing the people who actually read these blog posts as "Ignorant neckbeards who do nothing buy play video games" does not help your cause either. If you're writing these, you're trying to branch out to communities you are not regularly a part of, so leading out with "All you dumb boys just don't get why my feelings are hurt" isn't a great way to express your point or pull people to your side. I found it really sickening to have to watch war veterans explain the effects of PTS Triggers in a god damn comments page because the blog posts did such a poor job of explaining things and served to only sensationalize the entire affair.
 
But in the end, I point the finger the squarest and hardest at those lurking upon the Internet, feasting upon all this drama, getting over involved and succumbing to its overinflated hype. I get upset when I hear about people in games journalism boycotting things like PAX because of silly stupid squabbling like this, and I get VERY PISSED OFF when people ask me to take sides and try to prey on my moral standards. That is not fair to anyone and no one should be vilified for their difference of opinion, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE SUBJECT MATERIAL IS SO DAMN TRIVIAL. To be fair, I learned about this whole ordeal while pursuing /v/ looking for more information on Marvel Vs. Capcom 3. What I found were THOUSANDS of hateful ignorant knee jerk responses from countless people who thought their sensibilities were being attacked and HOW DARE SHE BE SO INSOLENT, LET'S TAKE THIS FUCKER DOWN. And on the other side, we have the death threats against Jerry Holkin's Wife and child. OVER A COMIC STRIP. This is the garbage that is killing the common sense of the planet.
 
So I have made the decision to not care anymore. I'm done following this story. just like with the Orson Scott Card/Chair Interactive issue last year, I will continue to do what I want. I will not make changes to my day, I will not stop doing the things I like because people who's opinion I revered have decided to act in a extreme method based on what they may or may not see. I will continue to read Penny Arcade, I will continue to visit the blogs of game developers who make products I find appealing,  I will be at PAX, I would engage in the festivities, and I will enjoy myself dammit, because life is too short. Now, if anyone wants to have a dialogue with me at PAX over this, I'd be more than welcome to have one, as long as it doesn't keep me from going to anything I want to see. Which is now less than it was yesterday due to this nonsense. 
 
It truly feels like we, as a society, are forgetting how to take a joke. In my twitter feed today, someone linked me to a tweet from Kenneth Cole Inc, saying an approximation of "Now e know why Egypt is in such an uproar, THE NEW KENNETH COLE SPRING LINE IS OUT!" Crass? Idiotic? In poor taste? Absolutely. Am I going to boycott Kenneth Cole products because of it? Fuck no. I groaned, did a head slap, shook my head and kept reading my twitter feed. If we get offended at everything that can be taken out of context or can be told in poor taste, we will never get anywhere. We need to remember how to laugh as a people.  
 
But I, for one, am tired of being upset over this. I am going to go home, watch tonight's fight club feed, work on cosplay, and start living within my own brainspace again. Because this is the last thing I want to have to worry about.

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mesoian

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Edited By mesoian

I've been in a fairly fowl mood ever since last night and find myself in the awkward position of not being able to drown my mind in music, work or games in order to silence it all. It seems that, somewhere over the span of the past who-knows-when, people became unable to discern a joke from a statement. It feels like whenever this happens, the offending joke is rarely "offending", it's more the attitudes of each side that drives me up the wall.
 
What started all this was the current Rape-Joke controversy that penny-arcade is currently embroiled within. To make a dumb story short, last year, Penny arcade made a joke about people being raped to sleep by "dickwolves" a monster that they created that has the body of a wolf, but all of its limbs are each an erect phallus. A particular member of the game development community (I will leave names out since that was part of the problem) took offense, wrote emails, and then put up a lengthy diatribe explaining why Penny Arcade is bad and why we should all feel bad for reading it.  Up until this part of the story, I really didn't care and honestly couldn't be bothered to analyze either side. It's a comic strip, not even that funny of one, where the aspect of rape is used as an adjective to the plot, not a result or a cause. It literally is something that has no merit. 
 
it's the next part of the story that really gets on my nerves. The following day (or interval, whatever), another strip was put up which seem like a sort of snarky response towards said diatribe, dismissing it in a very callous way. Poor form, but not the worst thing that has ever happened. The response from said bloggist was to put a series of blog posts on why rape is bad (which to this day is at 52. FIFTY TWO LENGTHY BLOG POSTS ABOUT WHY RAPE IS BAD, AS IF WE DON'T KNOW), many of which still point fingers at Penny Arcade in being rape apologists. Afterwards, Penny Arcade produces a tee-shirt/hoodie combo with a dickwolves logo on it and sells it, making the shirt a symbol of solidarity for penny arcade. Now this isn't necessarily bad, but without taking care of the previous issues, its easy to see why people could take offense. After all, without nipping this in the bud well and early on, you could make the argument that anyone wearing a dickwolves t-shirt is okay with rape. So that was poorly handled. BUT THEN, one certain bloggist makes DICKWOLF SURVIVOR t-shirts in an effort to combat against penny arcade and raise more awareness that the site and anyone associated with it are rape apologists. 
 
And it was about at this point where I started to wonder when the world had lost it's god damn mind and if we could ever get it back.  Everything in the aforementioned paragraph is fucking childish, petty, BULLSHIT.
 
I understand how this happens. Groups based in comedy are always looking to push the envelop, so they come up with things that aren't in the best taste. Sometimes those things get popular and are emulated by those who subscribe to the source material. it's commonplace; it's the stuff that memes are made of. And there will always be people who fly off the handle and take it too seriously, calling for a stop to it all so more feelings don't get hurt. Hell, Tipper Gore was famous for it during the rap revolution of the late 80's/early 90's. This won't be the last time it ever happens. 
 
I feel though, as a species approximately 5000 years into modern civilization, that we need to cope with our feelings a little better than this. I don't make apologies for either side. I like the penny arcade guys, I think the things they've done for hospitalized children through their child's play charity is wonderful. And I've seen and revere the works of a few of these offended bloggers (hell, I've been to the offices of one in the not too distant past as we live in the same city and we're both in the biz). The point where both sides could come away looking like rational adults who have a disparaging opinion has long since past. What we have now are petty, stupid, he-said, she-did, I'm so smart so you should listen to me, you don't know what you're talking about so you're opinion is invalid, bickering non-sense. And it has to stop. 
 
If the penny arcade guys wanted the dickwolves to be a great logo for the site, they should have provided it with more background regarding the symbol. I know it's similar to a sports logo and it's not that out of the question thinking of it as a sort of "The fighting dickwolves" type deal which is why the whole thing comes off as lazier than it should. It wouldn't have been hard for those two to come up with something. Hell, the dickwolves was the name for the official PA WOW Guild for a while, THAT IS REASON ENOUGH!  Without it, the entire notion of dickwolves comes off as ambiguous and potentially offensive, and can be PR suicide for your COMPANY which is something you need to think about before you start marketing things (I'm often amazed by some of the shirts that come out from enthusiast sites, and more by the people who actually wear them in public).  If the woman who was the most vocal in all this wanted to be taken seriously, she shouldn't have marketed a counter product in order to feast on the sympathies of people in similar situations. It makes you look opportunistic and crass to the actual issue at hand, which submarines your whole point since she claims to be a survivor herself. And generalizing the people who actually read these blog posts as "Ignorant neckbeards who do nothing buy play video games" does not help your cause either. If you're writing these, you're trying to branch out to communities you are not regularly a part of, so leading out with "All you dumb boys just don't get why my feelings are hurt" isn't a great way to express your point or pull people to your side. I found it really sickening to have to watch war veterans explain the effects of PTS Triggers in a god damn comments page because the blog posts did such a poor job of explaining things and served to only sensationalize the entire affair.
 
But in the end, I point the finger the squarest and hardest at those lurking upon the Internet, feasting upon all this drama, getting over involved and succumbing to its overinflated hype. I get upset when I hear about people in games journalism boycotting things like PAX because of silly stupid squabbling like this, and I get VERY PISSED OFF when people ask me to take sides and try to prey on my moral standards. That is not fair to anyone and no one should be vilified for their difference of opinion, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE SUBJECT MATERIAL IS SO DAMN TRIVIAL. To be fair, I learned about this whole ordeal while pursuing /v/ looking for more information on Marvel Vs. Capcom 3. What I found were THOUSANDS of hateful ignorant knee jerk responses from countless people who thought their sensibilities were being attacked and HOW DARE SHE BE SO INSOLENT, LET'S TAKE THIS FUCKER DOWN. And on the other side, we have the death threats against Jerry Holkin's Wife and child. OVER A COMIC STRIP. This is the garbage that is killing the common sense of the planet.
 
So I have made the decision to not care anymore. I'm done following this story. just like with the Orson Scott Card/Chair Interactive issue last year, I will continue to do what I want. I will not make changes to my day, I will not stop doing the things I like because people who's opinion I revered have decided to act in a extreme method based on what they may or may not see. I will continue to read Penny Arcade, I will continue to visit the blogs of game developers who make products I find appealing,  I will be at PAX, I would engage in the festivities, and I will enjoy myself dammit, because life is too short. Now, if anyone wants to have a dialogue with me at PAX over this, I'd be more than welcome to have one, as long as it doesn't keep me from going to anything I want to see. Which is now less than it was yesterday due to this nonsense. 
 
It truly feels like we, as a society, are forgetting how to take a joke. In my twitter feed today, someone linked me to a tweet from Kenneth Cole Inc, saying an approximation of "Now e know why Egypt is in such an uproar, THE NEW KENNETH COLE SPRING LINE IS OUT!" Crass? Idiotic? In poor taste? Absolutely. Am I going to boycott Kenneth Cole products because of it? Fuck no. I groaned, did a head slap, shook my head and kept reading my twitter feed. If we get offended at everything that can be taken out of context or can be told in poor taste, we will never get anywhere. We need to remember how to laugh as a people.  
 
But I, for one, am tired of being upset over this. I am going to go home, watch tonight's fight club feed, work on cosplay, and start living within my own brainspace again. Because this is the last thing I want to have to worry about.

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JJWeatherman

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Edited By JJWeatherman

This is actually a pretty good rant. I haven't been following this stuff, but after reading this: 

  "dickwolves" a monster that they created that has the body of a wolf, but all it's limbs are erect phalluses.    

...all I can say is: ell oh ell.
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W0lfbl1tzers

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Edited By W0lfbl1tzers

Exactly.

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dungbootle

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Edited By dungbootle

haha dickwolves

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animateria

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Edited By animateria

Didn't someone get killed for putting Muhammad on a comic strip? 
 
I mean sure the Penny Arcade thing didn't go to that length, but a death threat is close enough. 
 
I don't even know how that small comic about the problems in MMO quest design came to this. 

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Hailinel

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Edited By Hailinel
@animateria said:
" Didn't someone get killed for putting Muhammad on a comic strip?  I mean sure the Penny Arcade thing didn't go to that length, but a death threat is close enough.  I don't even know how that small comic about the problems in MMO quest design came to this.  "
As far as I know, no one has been killed, but some comic artists have actually gone into hiding due to threats against their lives.
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napalm

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Edited By napalm

You should've done a tl;dr, because that's really long.

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penguindust

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Edited By penguindust

Wow, that was long but I read it.  Pretty good stuff.  I just heard about the whole dickwolves controversy this afternoon from the CheapAssGamer podcast.  From your points and their outline, I think the original controversy was overblown and much to do about nothing.  However, the t-shirt thing was a mistake.  From what the CAGcast said there was also a woman in the games industry who was going to speak at the PAX expo but cancelled in light of the mess.  I understand that wearing the t-shirt might say I support Penny Arcade but it could also send a message that I think rape is not serious.  Can a comedian make a joke about rape?  Sure, comedy is sometimes uncomfortable.  The problem arises when the audience accepts the satire as truth.  Was former US President Ford really a huge klutz or is that the perception because of Chevy Chase's portrayal of the President on Saturday Night Live?  People are morons.  If left unchecked they can and will take something funny and push it until it becomes something creepy as was the case with the t-shirts.  The boys at Penny Arcade forgot this truism and they should be chastised for it. Of course, these opinions are based off my very limited understanding of the situation.
 
The Orson Scott Card thing was another case of unnecessary hysteria.  Now, if groups want to protest that's in their right but a good cause needs to pick their battles carefully.  In this case it seems silly to me to rally against a company because you don't agree with the political stance of one of their numerous employees.   I don't know, is anyone planning on boycotting the Superbowl on FOX because they disapprove of Glen Beck's politics?  

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EuanDewar

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Edited By EuanDewar

Something about "Dickwolves" seems like the best thing ever to me.

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Edited By luce

 
 
 
All I think of when I hear "Dick Wolf"

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Origina1Penguin

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Edited By Origina1Penguin

They should have just ignored the feminist from the start. The comic was not offensive. Some person with hate in her heart started trouble where it didn't exist and all they did was give her the attention she needed to blow it out of proportion.

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dbz1995

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Edited By dbz1995

A good read that summarises how I feel about this matter also.

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Edited By Bennyishere

I don't want to live in a world where people can't laugh at serious matters. This reminds me of the segment on the Onion News Network with an autistic reporter. I thought it was clever and put autistic people in a good light, since the actor did a charming performance and you instantly sympathized with him. Yet when they shared it on their Facebook page they became bombarded with people talking about how it was not a laughing matter, how it was offensive and so on. First of all, we live in a free world where we can "offend" whoever we want. If Penny Arcade wants to make jokes about rape, nobody should stop them. Secondly, you are only offended if you choose to be. Turning the other cheek is extremely easy when it comes to technology. When I was bullied in school, it was not the things they said that was the problem, it was the fact that they said it to my face and I couldn't do anything about it (until I ratted them out of course, ha!). The word "offensive" doesn't really have any gravitas anymore because it is childish to be offended in the first place...

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ryanwho

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Edited By ryanwho

If having good humor means having bad taste, I'll take my poor humor and let the inbreds enjoy their dickwolves and top gear.

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TaliciaDragonsong

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Silly people.
 
If a comic about dickwolves 'triggers' you, then you're a sorry pile anyway.

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velucyraptor

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Edited By velucyraptor
@luce said:
"  
 
 All I think of when I hear "Dick Wolf" "
Dear god I thought I was the only one
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soldierg654342

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Edited By soldierg654342

Honestly, if everything is as you said it was (which it very well may not be for all I know, I've not been keeping abreast with the issue becasue it seemed extremely silly), then the level of interplay between the two parties strikes me as coordinated. It's almost like a publicity stunt on both the side of Penny Arcade and the bloggers. Seriously, if you an actual rape survivor, then I don't think making a shirt about surviving a rape joke is even within the stratosphere of things you would do.
 
Raising awareness is one thing, profiteering is another.

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ryanwho

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Edited By ryanwho
@TaliciaDragonsong said:
" Silly people.  If a comic about dickwolves 'triggers' you, then you're a sorry pile anyway. "
A sorry pile of being a rape victim. 
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Edited By gamer_152  Moderator
@Mesoian: I've posted at length about my thoughts on this before but I'd like to start by saying that the crucial misconception that most of the people on the pro-PA side of the argument seem to hold is that the anti-PA people wanted PA to censor themselves purely on the grounds that the comic was offensive. While I know some were calling for this, there were also people on the pro-PA side saying and doing stupid things, and the more intelligent members of the anti-PA side of this argument actually held what they believed were valid moral objections towards the comic, so while I'm by no means anti-PA for the most part here, saying that the anti-PA people just wanted censorship because their feelings were hurt is ignorant and misrepresentative. The reasons behind the proposed censorship of the comic had to do with triggering rape-related PTSD victims and desensitising people to rape within western society.
 
Anyway, I think you're placing too much worth on the opinions and actions of a few people in this situation, while there were imbeciles on both sides of the argument there were many different people writing about this "moral outrage" from the anti-PA side and I don't think the guy who made the Dickwolves Survivor shirt really had a massive impact from the pro-PA side. Secondly, PA are by no means rape apologists, many anti-PA blogs have referred the "non-apology" of PA, but PA were never really trying to apologise for anything, they were doing what they'd always done in their comic which was make jokes. Additionally, while I think the t-shirt was a poor move on PA's part I don't think it would have been a fair judgement for people to conclude that those wearing the shirt were okay with rape, that's just not a rational or logical assumption to make. Lastly, I don't think it's a fair argument that people shouldn't be offended by these kinds of things, once you start telling people how they should feel in reaction to a certain situation you start hitting 1984 territory. It's not about what people feel, it's about the actions people take.
 
@TaliciaDragonsong said:
" Silly people.  If a comic about dickwolves 'triggers' you, then you're a sorry pile anyway. "
Talicia, I respect you and I think for the most part the anti-PA people do not have a valid point in their arguments, but you appear to just be insulting all rape victims with post-traumatic stress disorder and that is not okay.
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floodiastus

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Edited By floodiastus

Who get's upset about sexuality?  
 
I can only think of two: 
 
Americans and Arabs

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 http://www.lolhome.com/img_big/funny-picture-1183601370.jpg

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@ryanwho:@Gamer_152: 
I'm sorry guys, I have had some first hand experience with these kind of things but I just fail to see how a drawn comic, involving only text and a suggestion can trigger someone.
I'll admit its a bit harshly said of me but if those people can spend so much time 'fighting' this controversy I fail to see why they can't use that time to well...get better I suppose.
 
I meant no harm, but I might have been to blunt, sorry.
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Edited By GunslingerPanda

Not this shit again...

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Edited By actionTACO

reminder: shakesville and other blogger endured death threats and harassment for six months while Gabe and Tycho did nothing to stop it and egged it on (until they received ONE death threat).

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@Mesoian said:
" I've been in a fairly fowl mood  
Someone turned you into a duck?!
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Edited By ch3burashka

fowl =/= foul

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Edited By DrPockets000
@TaliciaDragonsong: It's amazing how the tiniest things can act as a trigger for PTSD, even something seemingly innocuous or irrelevant.  However, I agree that said people are causing way too much of an uproar and likely making the memories even more vivid for themselves as a result.
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Edited By FancySoapsMan

dong llama

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Edited By BaneFireLord

I would be more sympathetic to the anti-PA people if this was the first time they had done a strip involving offensive content. However, considering their multiple strips regarding bestiality, pedophilia, extreme violence, masturbation, and other strips about rape that never drew any sort of controversy, I'm somewhat less than obliged to feel incensed.

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prestonhedges

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Edited By prestonhedges
@Bennyishere said:
"First of all, we live in a free world where we can "offend" whoever we want. "
apparently not
 
apparently nowadays if you take a risk and make an offensive joke, the proper thing to do is to flip the fuck out the moment you get any feedback and decry all these people who dare get offended
 
hey, i'm sorry the joke didn't work out, but most people would think it's their own fault if they got booed off the stage, not the audience's
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TaliciaDragonsong

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@DrPockets000: 
I know, been there. But if I learned one thing its that you don't give bad stuff more attention, that way you'll never let it go and it will haunt you.
Same goes for this, the more people cry about it the bigger the news is gonna be and thus...the more people who could see it and be offended, it keeps going on and on :/
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DrPockets000

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Edited By DrPockets000
@TaliciaDragonsong: I couldn't agree more.  There are places and ways to discuss traumatic events.  Creating a massive media uproar about them because of a stupid joke is not one of them.