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TaliciaDragonsong

Back to red, because fuck it.

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Gaming, developers and communities. A rant.

Warning: This is a very long rant concerning gaming, developers and communities.
Satisfaction is not promised!

 
 
Here I am.
Sighing and moaning behind my desk and before you trip on your tongue my hands are not in my panties.
I'm just terribly sick and tired of the game industry, the developers, the media and the forums. 
You guys all disgust me, everyday again.
 
If it isn't a 'discussion' about how much someone sucks for not liking a game or something a developer said to another that now warrants a fucking essay from his side as a way of saying sorry its probably another franchise being gutted or destroyed because someone found something faulty with it.
 
Seriously, can you all just shut the fuck up for a moment?
I bought Borderlands, blind, because I trusted in the developers and the experience they wanted to sell me, hell I even bought all their DLC when it came out which I never do (and I only regret Moxi's arena, the Knox DLC is the best piece of DLC ever), and I loved the shit out of it.
But oh no, whines aplenty! The controls were off, the loot was crap, lack of story, Diablo did it better, it was a rip off from "insert whatever".
Now I'm perfectly able to nod and agree with some of those things but for fuck's sake people, it did what it had too and after a while a lot of people said: "Hey this game is pretty good and fun" and it popped up on more and more lists.
Darksiders 1 is yet another example of how hated it was at launch but how loved it later became.
People, you are making fools of yourself and the industry, all we gamers ever do is complain and complain.
We put faith in reviewers to bring us honest and interesting reviews but fuck it...I haven't read a review in months, years probably, because I can never agree with what is being told.
All I hear is "I think that..." or "This game derives from..." or even "This game is only 16 hours long."
 
First off, fuck what YOU think.
By all means please have your own style as a reviewer, a preference and a favorite genre, but come on be a bit more interesting about it.
I'm fine with their side of the story but just because YOU think the story is bad, doesn't mean it is a fact.
Just because you spend more time on the PC  than a console it's not automatically a fact that the controls are demanding.
 
Second off, fuck that deriving nonsense.
I'm way too pissed about Darksiders 2, how everyone is calling it stolen, ripped off or 'cleverly borrowed'.
Sure, it has a formula, but it's doing something good with it, no?
How come we attack and spit on a GOOD game for being similar to another game within its GENRE while every 2 and a half days a new FPS shooters comes out and we're all just like "Meh, shooter.".
Go destroy cheap cash ins, movie tie ins that suck (most of em) or crack down on that freaking indie nonsense that gets praised to heaven.
But oh no, call the rage police, a good game is actually good!
Seriously, stop bashing a game like Darksiders 2 for its genre and stop being dicks about The Darkness 2's length.
Because no matter how the fuck you put it, the action adventure genre is kind of empty and The Darkness 2 still beats out most FPS games in terms of story if not in length.
 
I kind of addressed the third issue in the previous bit as well but I feel like I need to say a bit more.
Its not about length (I know, I know) but it how you spend that length with the game.
Sure, I'll say it first: There's a difference in price/time when it comes to these things.
Indie games are often cheap, offer cheap thrills as well and aren't that long.
Very fucking short, more often than not.
But that's fine, spending a fiver and having some good easy fun is wonderful. 
What isn't wonderful is seeing franchises going down the drain while shameless yearly installments keep popping up.
Now note, and freaking note you shall, this is my opinion on the matter so THIS IS NOT A FACT.
I hate having to post that but come on, half the readers on the internet are pretty fucking dumb (please, by all means, attack me for that statement, it's pretty funny how everyone tells you the internet is full of morons but you're not really allowed to say it.) so I have to spell it out, no?
 
Ok so.
I loved Assassin's Creed 1, I liked Assassin's Creed 2 but everything that came after....please stop kidding yourselves it was pretty lackluster.
Sure, the game worked, the gameplay was wonderful, there was lots to do and the story has a lot of cool moments but I couldn't help but see the franchise being milked.
Ezio is a asshole, I don't like him, and my understanding was we'd be playing one character per installment which is pretty cool because you'd see a new personality every game and you'd have vast improvements or changes to the setting and combat.
Remember finding those statues? All those different assassin's? Don't tell me you didn't look at the girl assassin and got your hopes up, or some of the other pretty inspiring characters.
I loved the whole going back in time due to DNA and the overarching story but soon enough it became little more than the Ezio chronicle, taking over the entire series purpose.
Now granted, Ezio was alright as a character and probably the perfect lead character for the franchise to get some facetime but I really want to see more on their promise.
Looking at footage from AC3 I was pretty impressed, it looked great, the locale fresh and Connor seems to be pretty bad ass with his own set of weapons/moves.
But then I spotted it.
The same animations, the same attack patterns and the ever classic "You're surrounded by 10 dudes but they'll all patiently wait until you feel like stabbing or countering them".
Aaaaaaand my enthusiasm was gone.
Sure, I'll pick it up for 20 out of the bargain bin but despite the 'fresh' aspects it looks to be little more than a setting change.
I hope I'm wrong, but I hope the game also flops hard (it won't, of course it won't) just to show that "hey, effort please?".
 
I know, I'm sounding quite angry, unfair even, but it's a rant for a reason.
Feel free to discuss or nitpick in the comments.
But, moving on.
 
I've had this feeling a long time, ever since I saw my favorite games disappear and pure fun being shoved aside for multiplayer in every game, DLC and the removal of other 'old' things like local co op.
Don't tell me its unneeded, that it had its time because hey, SSX.
People tripped (and still are) the fuck out when that didn't have a free ride mode or local co op.
Its still a thing that lives with players and it's just terrible consumer <> developer contact.
Its also sad that there's a fangroup out there, praying and fighting for the return of a game and are pretty vocal about it (and what they want/aim for) or even that there's so many stories telling what aspects made the game for them (Yo, remember SSX3 going down the mountain? Awesome!) and the developer just cuts it.
 
Sorry, but, that's not good business, that's being downright silly and unrespectful to your customers.
In SSX's case the free riding, the stress free playing and insane tricks, made the game so loved and good.
Sure you can change a few things for a new formula, take the game to a new level but you can't just say "lets cut this loved aspect!".
Same goes for taking a singleplayer game and adding multiplayer.
In Mass Effect 3's case I'm willing to say it paid off, sure it's not perfect and the unlock system is pure bullshit but once you got the chance to play as your favorite race (Krogan!) you walk away pretty satisfied at the mode.
Often, however, this isn't the case and you're left wondering why they wanted to spend extra time and resources on it.
 
Now, let's leave games for a bit and go to forums/communities.
I'm burned out on all of them.
Sick, disgusted, mentally washed up and just downright done.
I'm not expecting every forum or community to be great but more and more there are people bending the rules, thriving on grieving others or in some games its even considered to be cool to disrupt other's fun.
PVP for that matter is awesome, if you're playing on a pvp realm or entered a pvp zone, beat it or eat it!
But ganking of lower levels combined with power fluxes from expansions or the 'trolling' of a group because you have nothing better to do is the worst for me.
I'm sick of that, sick of people.
I used to be a fan of online playing but after being harassed and stalked in online games I threw out my microphone and I rarely play together with people I don't know from real life.
I have retreated to playing solo a lot of the times and my opponents are usually bots.
Sure, that's a choice I made myself but it's disgusting how these communities are.
Even people who have never touched a game like League of Legends or World of Warcraft know the reputation of their random matches.
Blizzard and Riot and other companies are working on the rules and actively preventing cheaters/grievers to hurt players too much but it still happens because the simple fact is people are fucking idiots.
They cannot be trusted to play nice so the developer puts all sorts of crazy things into place to prevent issues.
 
But that fails as well, not being able to vote kick people from your group because of some bug (This player can't be kicked for another 6 hours! What? Why? Wtf!) or in some cases the system flips the fuck out and somehow blames you when a tank spawns on top of three of your teammates and you find yourself booted.
Think of it as DRM issues, the honest p(l)ayer is being blamed and punished by the bad behavior of others.
 
Last point, forums.
Come on!
Go read the 'blue responses' on Blizzard's forums, especially the Q and A's.
What do you see? You see hostile questions all the fucking time and developers/GM's trying their best to make their intentions known.
But that usually gets followed up with "Ah, so you don't want this or this to happen! Is that what you're saying?" which drags the discussion on and on and on.
Sure, Blizzard's not perfect and some decisions have been shaky and pretty major for people who barely even participate in the higher levels of the game but there's a sick influx of questions regarding "I WANT TO BE SPECIAL" or "OTHER PLAYERS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DO SOMETHING I ONCE DID BUT NOW EASIER".
Its all 100% whining, its grieving and its immensely condescending for other players to read.
To each their own and really, if you worked hard for something you should be able to show it off but eventually a lot more people are going to get where you are and have that same reward, especially when the difficulty drops or changes are made.
There is no consistency in a online world, deal with it!
Also, it's unfair call out to be praised or rewarded in a game that largely doesn't rely on skill but several other factors such as gear or a good guild that helps you get it and works together well enough to actually clear the higher tiers in a game.
You can't tell me you're a bad ass because you have the best gear available in the game, that only tells me you spend lots of time with a group of others fighting and sweating for that.
You deserved it, no doubt, but it doesn't make you better than anyone else (at least, besides the stats of course!) and it most certainly does not give you the privilege to be a asshole or expect people to respect you.
I've met people in online games that were considered amazing, their gear was great and since they had the gear they probably had the skill to raid that high right?
Sure, but they showed a total disregard for group or boss battle mechanics, were dicks to new or learning players or ended up going batshit and wiping a group just because something didn't go the way they like and that tells me their gear is worth nothing.
But that said, I've also met people who were insanely geared and skilled, that made running dungeons or such a cakewalk because they played with dedication and group spirit, offering advice or filling holes left by new/learning players.
 
So, very long rant!
If you read all of it I hope it was at least a little insightful or even entertaining because I wrote this with no real purpose.
Was pretty fucking mad at the state of gaming, the inability to enjoy videogames but except the constant bickering over miniscule things that mayhaps be very deciding on a personal level but have no place at all in reviews or discussions regarding a game's worth.
 
Go enjoy indie games if you want, play another Call of Duty and I'll be right here enjoying my often odd one out games.
To each their own! Accept and love that! Everyone is different and everyone has their own opinion on EVERYTHING!
 
But please, everyone, support your developers and fight for your games! Do not let big companies ruin your beloved franchises and stop accepting all the crap being shoveled into your mouths.
Stop buying map packs that consist of 2 older remade ones and one new, stop buying character skins that should have been in the game at launch and for god's sake...
Stop being so fucking hostile.
 
Thanks!
 
TLDR

 

 

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dgSean

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Edited By dgSean

It seems to me a lot of people take the wrong approach to reviews in general, they think that every review on every site should be the same every time (ie they get upset when the scores don't match up every review the read). For me it has always been about the reviewer not the site they represent. I go out of my way to find reviews by people who have demonstrated over time similar tastes to mine. I'll always read reviews by (or listen to opinions of) Mr. Davis, because you can tell he wants to like video games and comes in with an optimistic approach, I feel I'm the same way. On the other hand, I read Mr. Gerstmann's work but I take it with a grain of salt knowing that we've disagreed on some things. This is certainly not supposed to be a knock or disrespectful in anyway we're just different people looking for different things in games. The sooner people start to get that (this day will never come), we might stop seeing people blowing up over review scores (for the record, I hate scores, read the words).

It's hard in video games because in a lot of cases we're not talking about sitting down for a couple hours to do the leg work for a review like they do in the movie industry, so you can't always get someone who's opinion you trust writing a review for a game that you're interested in. I like using the movies as a comparison because there is a wide range of people who do the reviews. Consider this, I have so little in common with a geriatric reviewer who has spent nearly his entirely life watching movies for a living, how could I possibly believe that my opinion of a film will be anywhere near his. And while the differences in video game reviewers isn't as drastic as in movie industry the concept is the same.

To the Darksiders points; my thing with the whole 'stealing' of mechanics from other games is that if you want me to take it seriously, you need to be as good or better as the game you're 'stealing' from otherwise I find it feels cheap. I think Darksiders was successful in that, and I loved it for it. An example of a game that didn't do that in my humble opinion, was Sleeping Dogs, you could tell what they were trying to do, but they didn't quite get there. I was floored by how much hate it got for 'stealing' from Zelda, especially when people had been crying for a mature Zelda title forever. And while Darksiders 2 didn't really feel like another Darksiders game, it did continue the tradition of taking mechanics and making it their own, ie Death's traversals look like they were lifted entirely from Prince of Persia, and executed well enough in my eyes as a PoP fan, to make it one of my favorite aspects of the game.

I don't necessarily agree with all of your opinions

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wrighteous86

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Edited By wrighteous86

@dgSean said:

I was floored by how much hate it got for 'stealing' from Zelda, especially when people had been crying for a mature Zelda title forever.

I didn't hate it for "stealing" Zelda, I was underwhelmed by it because I've played every Zelda game and it didn't feel very new or refreshing to me. Also, Darksiders does some interesting things with tone and story, but calling it "mature" is ridiculous, and I don't think THAT is what anyone wants from Zelda. Self-serious Zelda maybe, but not bloody, brooding, hulking Zelda.

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dgSean

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Edited By dgSean

@Wrighteous86 said:

Darksiders does some interesting things with tone and story, but calling it "mature" is ridiculous, and I don't think THAT is what anyone wants from Zelda. Self-serious Zelda maybe, but not bloody, brooding, hulking Zelda.

Fair, maybe "mature", would have been more appropriate to use than simply mature. Of course no one wants to see Link as a hulking ball of hate, you couldn't just throw a Link skin on War and call it a day, that is not what I'm suggesting. It certainly scratched the mature Zelda game itch for me though, I can't imagine I'm completely alone on that.

My comments were don't directed at you specifically, I apologize if you somehow felt called out on the hate thing (I consider hate and underwhelmed very different things), I didn't see your previous post on the subject (still haven't) if there was one. I however will refer to my previous comment, and infer that you and I are simply looking for different things in games, and that's ok.

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wrighteous86

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Edited By wrighteous86

@dgSean: I didn't post before and I'm not upset. Sorry if it came off that way. Just giving my thoughts on Darksiders. It was okay, but nothing special. I was surprised that so many people seemed to love it, while actively hating Zelda. I guess it's just Zelda-fatigue, and any difference, no matter how cosmetic, made people fall back in love with that gameplay.

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TaliciaDragonsong

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@dgSean: I think its great if you spend time on a site like this and 'kind of' know the personalities behind it, that also makes it easier to read their reviews and see what they mean like how you would take things from a friend you know.
I'm subscribed to this game mag here in Holland and what I like is that they have a pretty big cast of writers, each with their own interest and often they are paired with the games that suit them so you will really read things that matter.
Their Nintendo guy is very awesome at telling you what the game is about or whatever, instead of other reviewers that usually resort to "Its still kiddy! Blaaaa".
Reviews are way too tricky, I agree, but if you make a comparison I feel its only fair you make sure the image behind it fits with what you're conveying.

That's the thing there though, I don't mind if somethings borrowed and improved upon but in a genre that is already a bit wide and underpopulated I'm only glad I get to do some more climbing and wallrunning because the last time I did that without regretting my purchase has been Assassin's Creed 1 or even Prince of Persia Sands of Time.
Look at how Skyward Sword took a few new systems to heart, like the weapon crafting/upgrading/etc, I have not heard a single word about how that's lifted off another game, no matter how unique or different is was in Zelda.
And seriously, how many ways are there to run over walls?
"Well sorry Death, you can't run across this wall to save the universe because that's ripping off, find a original idea! No no put that death grip down, that's just a reskinned boomerang. No, you can't run and jump either because Mario 64 did that..." etc etc.
 
Thank you for reading even if you didn't agree with some of it, it would be a boring world if we all agreed anyway!
 
@Wrighteous86
Yeah, no offense, but the way you're putting it is kind of black and white.
Perhaps you thought it was nothing special, while its one of my favorite games ever! 
Some people also never ever tire from certain genre's, I know people who have been playing JRPG's nonstop, or MOBA or MMO.
Mental!
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dgSean

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Edited By dgSean

@TaliciaDragonsong said:

I'm subscribed to this game mag here in Holland and what I like is that they have a pretty big cast of writers, each with their own interest and often they are paired with the games that suit them so you will really read things that matter.

A reviewer plays Darksiders, they draw the comparison to Zelda, This particular reviewer doesn't care for Zelda games, and therefore now has a bad overall opinion of the game. Sure, it's a bad fit, ideally you don't want this guy reviewing this game because he doesn't really like this style of game and may struggle to be objective about certain points. There are people like this reviewer who were interested in the game from the flashy marketing and have the same opinion of Zelda games. The reviewer's opinion is still valid, I feel it would be up to the reviewer to qualify why he doesn't like this game based on it's similarities to another game that he didn't like, but there is still a reason for the review to exist. Similarly mentioned, he's a big Zelda fan, and as a result was underwhelmed. Again, a perfectly reasonable opinion, and he even qualified it to the point that other people who have similar extensive zelda background may appreciate hearing if they're on the fence about the game.

I'm with you though Talicia, Darksiders is one of my favorite games this generation. I often compared it to comfort food, in that it takes a lot of good parts from a lot of games that I've enjoyed (and even some I didn't), it all comes together in very familiar and satisfying way, just like a good comfort food should.

I guess it comes back to knowing the reviewer, and not taking anyone's opinion at face value if you haven't seen a body of work. If a reviewer takes the time to write the piece, you can be sure that the things they wrote matter to them (I agree with you that the 'it's kiddy' gripe is uninformative, but as long as it's not the only thing they said about the game then it's probably ok to mention it in passing), now whether or not that reviewers opinion matters to you is a different story all together. There are lots of reviewers that I completely skip because they write things like you've mentioned.

I agree with you entirely on the 'stealing' thing, rereading my comment I don't think it comes off as I intended it to. I don't think it should ever be held against them for simply implementing a mechanic similar to another game as long as it fits what they're trying to do (I'm looking at you AC:Revelations tower defense); it's true in any industry not just gaming, that if you're not learning from advances of your competitors, then you're missing opportunities to make your own product better (not that I want every game to be exactly the same either). Of course if it is done poorly they're going to get called out on it, but it doesn't have to be the end of the conversation. I'll use Sleeping Dogs again as example because it's fresh in my mind, the combat resembled the Arkham games, with the counter focused, rock paper scissors enemy types. It simply wasn't as deep, and it wasn't as fluid. The same can be said about the traversal mechanics. Never-the-less I had a decent time playing through the game; I'd caution people interested in it if they were specifically looking forward to the h2h combat, or the foot chase sequences that were prevalent in its marketing, they're not as tight as they might be expecting, but it's still a good enough time, I don't feel like I wasted my money on the game. 'Stealing' is a harsh word for it, but it can be very effective way to give a reader a frame of reference for things that can be difficult to explain when you're already dealing with some arbitrary word limit for a review targetting a gamer audience with the reputation of short attention spans (myself included). You're absolutely right in that it shouldn't automatically be held against the game as a fault.

Afterthought - geez I'm sorry, I didn't intend to be throwing novels at you, I always find this to be an interesting topic and I'm naturally long winded.

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TaliciaDragonsong

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@dgSean:  I just liked Darksiders for what it is, as I do with a lot of games (OMG DOTA 2 HAS BEEN COPIED INTO THE SOURCE ENGINE BLABLA) and as long as its not stealing (as happens on the app market or facebook) I'm fine with it, really.
But people need to learn to adress things right because even words as Zelda or Prince of Persia can mean different things to different people.
Really want to see the Darksiders franchise continued, I just wish they had a decent logo so I could get that next to my Triforce tattoo. 
I'm asking for a utopia, I know, but some common sense and honesty will go a long way.
I hate seeing people cry foul at games only to later love them, just because of being misinformed.
 
As long as games give it their own identity I'm fine with whatever they do and there's also just a moment of "you didn't go for it, so I will" when it comes to features.
Similar to how MMO's often end up 'borrowing' each other's features as expansions (or new mmo's) come and go.
Its not always good but it shouldn't be held accountable.
Especially not if things are pretty unique in setting (Darksiders vs Prince of Persia?).
You don't see WoW putting out a expansion centered around the Lich King followed by Rift/Lotro/whatever  mmo doing the exact same right?
They watch, they learn, they adapt and so do console games.
They should, because otherwise genre's will become too stale too quick.
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Example1013

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Edited By Example1013

@TaliciaDragonsong: You sound like you need a break from forums. Online communities almost always devolve into giant circlejerks of confirmation bias and vocal minorities, and the GB forums are no exception.

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Slag

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Edited By Slag

@TaliciaDragonsong said:

@Slag: Well a big ass comment like yours is amazing to receive, especially on a rant formed "in the moment", so thank you very much!
I've learned as well, and this holds true as much in real life as the online one, its costs nothing to be nice (or a cunt, actually but that's not my point) and the most simple comment can be inspiring enough to keep someone going!
I always think of Rembrandt in these sort of cases, one of the greatest (if not the!) painters ever and he lived a live full of tragedy only to disappear in a unmarked grave. How terrible!

Yeah exactly, that's my thinking too. It's taken some years of mental gymnastics but I've tried to make myself into a can-do person. Since I can't expect people to fix the world for me, I might as try to make it better for somebody else even if in just a small way.

The cost/benefit of letting someone you appreciate them or something they did is really a fantastic investment. Costs me very little and can mean quite a lot to somebody else. So why not?

Glad my comment made you feel good, figured you earned a long comment with what you produced.

did not know that bout Rembrandt, but that really sucks. Didn't Mozart end up the same way?

You know what gets to me the most? People telling me I should just back off completelty!

I get their point but how is walking away going to make it better? I don't want to drown myself in their nonsense everyday but walking away and surrendering the place to the 'assholes' hardly seems like a valid option to me.
But then again I've always been a firm believer of fighting for your right and such, especially if its random assholes ruining a fun hobby!
The amount of hate and plain hurtful talk is through the roof though, its not even trash talking anymore, and there's been DOTA matches that were already decide for me in the 30 secs before the battle because of it.

Yeah I feel ya on that. I dislike that defeatist attitutide too many people have. That attitude they have is why injustice persists in my opinion. Same holds true with more minor annoyances like BM in games. If society is apathetic to injustice it will abound unchecked, same goes for BM.

Videochat would just detract from the gaming experience however, focusing on the game is going to be hard when some asshole starts screaming and also bouncing in his chair for example...that's ignoring the elephant I'd say.
Or hell, it sounds like being in direct contact with a playlist of Youtube rage videos! I'll pass, but thanks for the idea! xD
Thank you and play on!

Dunno if you are familiar the famous Milgram experiment conducting back in 1950's, but it did seem to suggest quite convincingly that proximity to another person increases empathy substantially. There's a cliche of sorts that basically is "Say it to my face", which has the implied menaing that the recipient of the comment would not have the courage to act badly in person. I think (or rather hope) that might be somewhat true here.

You're probably right Videochat wouldn't be enough on its' own, but I don't have a better idea atm.

and hey no problem! Anytime you want readers, I'm happy to comment. I enjoy your writing.

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rollingzeppelin

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Edited By rollingzeppelin

My main problem with forums at the moment is that it is basically impossible to have a serious conversation online due to the mere existence of trolls. How do you know if the person you're arguing with isn't just doing it to wind you up? This severely limits conversation potential and is one of the many things holding back internet communities in my opinion.

Decent rant though, I found some of your points to be conflicting but whatever, I'm to apathetic with forums at the moment to write them up.

Good job though, you put way more effort into these forums than I'm willing to.

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TaliciaDragonsong

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@Slag: No clue, don't like Mozart :P
I won't say I have the answers though, which is often what people seem to demand if you 'complain' about something, but I'd like to keep it under the people and be vocal about it so that more people take chances and stand up for themselves/the things they love!
 
Thank you and I hope I can keep entertaining you!
 
@Example1013: Yeah but GB is one of the best actually, other forums are just too big and populated that there's no sense of community and that devolves into madness.
 
@RollingZeppelin: It wasn't easy, but thanks!
I always try to assume people are being normal in the first place but often enough their style of text will be enough to differ them from trolls.
The main thing I guess is seeing how they formulate their opinions and if they abide by basic logic.
Long as they're screaming about their game being better, or plain ignoring a fact like a salesnumber or whatever, then I won't usually bother further!
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FunExplosions

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Edited By FunExplosions

You care too much about what stupid people think

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Erk_Forever

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Edited By Erk_Forever

I say we get all the stupid people and put them in camps. Make them do manual labor. Maybe even use their bodies to further science.