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w1n5t0n

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w1n5t0n

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@johnham said:

@w1n5t0n: Nobody has said that the new hires are incapable of having different opinions from the OG crew because they all happen to have the same skin color, or be the same gender.

Women and ethnic minorities have a necessarily unique opinion that arises from an entirely different life experience. The point of view from someone who's had that experience would be qualitatively different in several meaningful ways; a distinction that can't be replicated by just "having different opinions".

There's also the matter of representation. When GB has an all-male, all-white editorial staff it sends a signal (unintentionally, obviously) that these are the sorts of people that are authorities when it comes to games - these are the people whose opinions matter and are worth listening to. Put yourself in the shoes of a young female gamer, or a young black gamer. How does it make you feel when you see that every person in a position of editorial power is unlike you in an important way (again not saying it SHOULD BE important, but that it IS, regardless of whatever post-racial utopia we'd all like to live in).

What you say about having unique experiences based on your cultural back ground is true. But What Giant Bomb needed for this particular job opening were a combination of criteria the most important of which is chemistry with the crew. Giant Bomb isn't just personalities first, it's completely predicated upon personalities. That's it's shtick. Based on that, Jeff picked the guys he thinks are the best fit for the Job. And honestly nobody knows better than Jeff who fits the job best since A.) He saw all the applications and B.) He sort of drives the vision of Giant Bomb.

It really isn't Giant Bombs job to make sure every single different voice out there is represented. There are tons of sites on the internet! They don't all have to be all things to all people. Also, the internet is pretty damn open, its very easy to start your own site if you feel like there is a need that isn't being catered too. It's actually a really great opportunity. I love Giant Bomb, I really do. But if it doesn't fit in your world view for one reason or another, or the tone isn't up your alley there are other great communities too. I really don't want the chemistry fucked up because some people with a bone to pick think something that isn't theirs needs to be run differently than it's creators envision.

I also don't think GB has ever shied away from having guest with unique opinions. I've never met anyone like Dave Lang or Karen Snider, those people be crazy unique.

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@w1n5t0n said:

@johnham: I can't see what the vast different opinions would be. Unless your talking specifically about social issues, which Giant Bomb has never really been about. As for representation I don't know how they would feel, I don't think you can know how every minority feels either, but saying Giant Bomb has some moral responsibility to fight in your own warped crusade is kinda shitty.

interesting that you view this criticism as a "warped crusade." could you maybe explain that? hiring women and people of color for positions of influence isn't a "social issue", it's kind of just... other people's lives?

I was talking specifically about his claim "There's also the matter of representation. When GB has an all-male, all-white editorial staff it sends a signal (unintentionally, obviously) that these are the sorts of people that are authorities when it comes to games - these are the people whose opinions matter and are worth listening to. Put yourself in the shoes of a young female gamer, or a young black gamer. How does it make you feel when you see that every person in a position of editorial power is unlike you in an important way (again not saying it SHOULD BE important, but that it IS, regardless of whatever post-racial utopia we'd all like to live in)." Not people fightinf for diversity in general.

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@johnham: I can't see what the vast different opinions would be. Unless your talking specifically about social issues, which Giant Bomb has never really been about. As for representation I don't know how they would feel, I don't think you can know how every minority feels either, but saying Giant Bomb has some moral responsibility to fight in your own warped crusade is kinda shitty.

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@zevvion said:

@w1n5t0n said:

@zevvion said:

@w1n5t0n said:

@zevvion said:

@rorie: I was referring to the Twitter 'incident'; I should have been more clear on that. It was rather easy to see that people were arguing on two completely different fronts. What you say supports my point. Indeed, nobody said the hires were not appropriate, yet countless stated that they were appropriate as an argument.

Two sides just talking passed each other. What I meant was that as long as they discuss on different plains, they won't be able to do so effectively.

I think they were plenty of people who said the hires weren't appropriate. They just coded it first. They would say "I'm sure these guys will be fine" then go on to say "I just wish they didn't hire two more boring, samey, white dudes". I think it was kinda implied they didn't like the hires.

Right, but they didn't like the hires becausethey wanted to see different appearances. They wanted to see a woman or black man for instance. They didn't dislike the hires specifically for who they are.

I think saying these guy don't have different opinions based on their skin color and gender is kind of insulting.

That's not what they were saying though. They wanted to see different appearances, not different opinions. I don't recall that being the criticism.

I don't think that makes it any better, probably worse if your criteria is mainly based on the appearance of the new hires.

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@zevvion said:

@w1n5t0n said:

@zevvion said:

@rorie: I was referring to the Twitter 'incident'; I should have been more clear on that. It was rather easy to see that people were arguing on two completely different fronts. What you say supports my point. Indeed, nobody said the hires were not appropriate, yet countless stated that they were appropriate as an argument.

Two sides just talking passed each other. What I meant was that as long as they discuss on different plains, they won't be able to do so effectively.

I think they were plenty of people who said the hires weren't appropriate. They just coded it first. They would say "I'm sure these guys will be fine" then go on to say "I just wish they didn't hire two more boring, samey, white dudes". I think it was kinda implied they didn't like the hires.

Right, but they didn't like the hires becausethey wanted to see different appearances. They wanted to see a woman or black man for instance. They didn't dislike the hires specifically for who they are.

I think saying these guy don't have different opinions based on their skin color and gender is kind of insulting.

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#6  Edited By w1n5t0n

@zevvion said:

@rorie: I was referring to the Twitter 'incident'; I should have been more clear on that. It was rather easy to see that people were arguing on two completely different fronts. What you say supports my point. Indeed, nobody said the hires were not appropriate, yet countless stated that they were appropriate as an argument.

Two sides just talking passed each other. What I meant was that as long as they discuss on different plains, they won't be able to do so effectively.

I think they were plenty of people who said the hires weren't appropriate. They just coded it first. They would say "I'm sure these guys will be fine" then go on to say "I just wish they didn't hire two more boring, samey, white dudes". I think it was kinda implied they didn't like the hires.

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I posted this in another thread, but though I'd post it here. I think Giant Bomb does embrace diversity, that's what I love about them. They may not have hired a women, but they always bring in unique personalities. Me personally think I think Dave Lang, Johnny V, John Drake, Karen, Carrie, Raimi and all the other awesome friends of Giant Bomb are pretty fucking diverse. Carolyn Petit was a guest on Proffesional Wednsdays, I dont think she had been on many GameSpot shows at that time

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#8  Edited By w1n5t0n

@boatorious said:

There are people who dislike diversity and tolerance. Those people are assholes.

Then among people who say they like diversity and tolerance, there are two camps.

The first camp sees tolerance as a reason to embrace people, accept others, and treat everyone with respect.

The second camp sees tolerance as justification to be constantly offended, to constantly boycott and exclude, and to only being kind to those seen as "allies", while reserving contempt for a perpetually growing list of "enemies".

I like Giant Bomb and the community because it embraces the warm happy middle, or at least does a better job of it than most places. Embrace diversity and tolerance because it gives you a reason to embrace people, accept others, and treat everyone with respect. Stay away from the extremes that are both just excuses to exclude and complain and hate.

I think Giant Bomb does embrace diversity, that's what I love about them. They may not have hired a women, but they always bring in unique personalities. Me personally think I think Dave Lang, Johnny V, John Drake, Karen, Carrie and all the other awesome friends of Giant Bomb are pretty fucking diverse. They even had Carolyn Petit on, I dont think she had been on many GameSpot shows at that time.

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w1n5t0n

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GB is pretty awesome, most of the time.

But the internet fucking sucks. Seriously. And I'm not just talking about the people who started the shitstorm yesterday. When Rorie told someone on Twitter that they're really really busy right now and don't have time to write an official response because all of the shit that is happening, he got shit for that. Like, motherfucker give them some slack, will you.

I understand where you coming from, but the internet's pretty great. I mean they all have jobs because of it.

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Wasn't the harassment on twitter and other sites, Giant Bomb seemed fine, or atleast it was moderated before I saw it.