Playdate: Until Dawn - Part 03

It's a shame that a majority of the dumb horror movie decisions get made in the last third of this game. Thing is still terrific overall.

Also, "Understand the palm of my hand, bitch *slap*" should earn Emily, at the very least, an honorable mention for best new character at GOTY.

Ahhhhh, Alex would completely miss Hannah's diary.

@clagnaught: Plenty changes in the story. Just not certain pivotal moments. At some point though, they're obligated to ensure that all of the story beats play out so that even if someone is terrible at the game, they still get to see the story. And if all the branches are of a guaranteed length, especially for a game that looks like this, it's the only way to handle it other than reducing the number of paths altogether and shortening the overall length of the game.

I mean, you're not wrong. It's a valid criticism, but I disagree with it, because at the end of the day it's all just perception. If someone hasn't already seen the game or is scumming decisions as they play through the game for the first time, then as long as they think the characters can die, even if it were literally impossible, I wouldn't think it's a worse game for that. So much dialogue changes, the way the characters behave, when and where they split off. Why is that cheapened simply because certain pivotal moments are inescapable? Would you enjoy the game more if there were only, let's say 4 actual choices, but they altered the story far more dramatically? Does finding out the superfluous nature of the majority of decisions after the effect actually affect an experience that's already taken place, or just change sentiments towards it? The phrasing of the questions is unfair, but the questions themselves aren't. There are tons of these questions and there aren't any definitive answers unfortunately, but if at the end of the day you enjoyed the game, maybe they did make the right decision. I don't even particularly like this style of game, I just don't know if what people say they're looking for from it will ever happen. Those already exist as text adventures and visual novels where that's actually achievable, but yet people don't care about them. Maybe they don't see them as games? I don't see them AS games, but I'll defend their right to BE games god damn it!

Do you like Telltale's games too?

Since Vinny seemed annoyed, I apologise for mentioning to Austin about the collectible they missed. I'm very sensitive to spoilers and I get that someone wouldn't want to know that there was something to miss, but I was just thinking about seeing more story on the stream.

I will say you should explore more to new players though. The game wants you to use totems to figure out some of the decisions so that it doesn't just seem like random chance.

"BRING OUT YER DEAD!"

So...these Wendigo(s) are just the creatures from The Descent? I hope that's where they got inspiration from, because man, The Descent is awesome.

Go watch The Descent.

terrifying game

Expert trolling from one Dan Ryckert

This story went places.

"Kissing is hard enough already

[...]

Kissing is not that hard, actually. I believe in your ability to kiss!"

Man, what an awesome fucking edition to the team Austin is.

As for the game it seems really good. I especially like the end where Sam clearly kinda lost her mind.

I think Josh has to live.

@wonderva:

The game constantly railroads the player. Like the decision with Em to ride the conveyor belt or jump off. You jump off and then immediately go to the path atop of the conveyor belt.

Likewise, Mike and Sam have ridiculous plot armour and will always make it to the end no matter what you do.

It's all an illusion again. Just like Telltale or ME.

I always get giddy when I see these in my video feed. I really enjoy watching the GBeast content lately.

@itssexytime: While both paths end up the same place, I've seen a few playthroughs where if you don't jump off you have to deal with extra QTE's that if failed, end up with Emily being crushed by a grinder. The goal is always to reach the exit, certain paths are just a little harder depending on your path.

Funny that, in either ep. 1 or 2 Alex mentions the director and the movie "Wendigo". I was not aware of the cross-promotional nature; I wonder if this is technically canon or just an homage.

Man, this game.

I was running an almost perfect play through. The only teenager that had gotten killed was Jessica, because I was too slow running through the woods with Mike. I made it to the ending with Josh not getting killed by his sister (he turns Wendigo at the end in an after credits scene) Matt made it through the mine, and then Sam, Mike, Chris, Ashley and Emily were all in the lodge. I torched them. I thought that was the right thing to do, because I didn't realize it was going to be that bad. I saw Chris run out and I thought everyone else would be smart and do the same, but they just stood there. So Mike, Ashley and Emily all died in the lodge. Poop. Oh, and I didn't save the dog, that really hurt. :(

I loved the game. I thought the choices were super fun and there were enough variances in what could happen to make it interesting to me, especially when reading other people's experiences and watching videos. Looking at the butterfly effect stuff is really interesting. There was one butterfly I didn't even unlock at all, so I have no idea what I missed with that one. I want to replay my ending to see if I can make it better. It won't be my "canon ending" much like my first try through the Suicide Mission in Mass Effect 2 (I'm sorry Garrus!), but I kind of want to see it end on a bit of a higher note.

Also, I was super impressed by the acting. Sure, it was scenery chewing gloriousness, but that was just what the game needed. And the characters that were more realistic, more grounded, like Chris, Sam and Mike, were really believable to me. Yeah, sometimes the plot had them do stupid things, but it's a horror movie, so it made sense to have an occasional stupid plot moment happen. I really dug it.

My husband asked me if they could/should make an Until Dawn 2, or at least a spiritual successor, and I am all for it. I want to see it playing with different scary tropes, like alien abductions or something. Heck, even a thriller would work, something like Taken where you have to play different roles in an overarching story that isn't horror themed. I'm not saying that it could or should be a franchise, I just really enjoyed the experience I had and could see playing something similar in the future, if of the same quality.

GBE Playdates should get a link under videos like Vinny Vania and Breaking Bad have. Especially if this becomes a consistent thing.

@oueddy: have a timestamp for his "trolling"? I missed it

@virtualtitan:

So I actually like visual novels. I haven't played that many, but the ones I have played (mainly Danganronpa 1 and 2 and Zero Escape: Virtue's Last Reward) I think are awesome experiences.

To me, I think the important thing is player agency. People need to feel like their choices matter or have impact. Like there are a few times when I stressed or thought about a situation in Until Dawn, Heavy Rain, and games like The Walking Dead. It's important people feel like the decisions they made are theirs, and they hope they did the "right" thing for what they wanted to happen. From that aspect, Until Dawn definitely delivers (at least in my opinion).

I just wish there was a game where you could kill everyone, even if it means you have a short game. Like failure should mean failure. As an example, with Mass Effect 2, I think you should be able to fail the suicide mission. Not just have a remote possibility where Shepard completes the mission but is killed before he escapes. I think if the player isn't that well prepared or made numerous poor choices, Shepard and everyone else should just die before he even has a chance to complete the mission.

I think the key to that is if you were to do it, the game would still need to be interesting. Like let's say in Until Dawn, everyone splits up and you could kill every character halfway through the game. What if all of them died individually and there was no context for the other characters? Like <spoilers for this episode> Matt died, but nobody really knew that he died. If Emily liked Matt by the end of the game, she is remorseful during her interview, but they don't really accept that he's dead necessarily in the same was Jessica is dead. So what if you saw 8 separate death animations, and the game just ended with? I don't think that would be particularly great, besides the fact that you could do it. If there wasn't a reason to see that content, it probably wouldn't really be that worthwhile.

So hypothetically, what if all of the other characters die and there's one last person left alive? That person knows everyone else is dead and the last person gets a new event or an entirely different ending. Or saw a piece of the overall plot that can only be achieved in that way? Like the events in Path A wouldn't apply anymore, so the player gets a more unique Path B, or a more individualized ending. I like the idea of two people talking about the same game, but they reference important or game changing events that the other person had no idea could happen or one person references a plot thread while the other has no idea what he/she is talking about.

To me I think these very specific games offer a sense that anything can happen. I think the experience is still enjoyable and definitely worthwhile, but it is disappointing when you find the limitations, especially when you do see how there isn't a lot of variety. Then again, you would only really know that if you start to poke around or try to break a game, like I did with Heavy Rain. You wouldn't think about that after your first playthrough.

And it's worth pointing out this is my ideal, perfect world. I enjoy games like Until Dawn and Heavy Rain even when I know what the game's limitations are. I just wish they weren't there. Would I rather have game with a lot of subtle choices versus a game where you make 4 really important ones? I would probably take the game with the subtle choices, just because it has more interaction and it's less theoretically, I guess.. Like that's why The Walking Dead is great. Your story feels like it belongs to you and it doesn't really matter the game still goes from Point A to Z in more or less the same way. I still think it would be cooler if a game had those subtle changes but had a few more drastic changes too.

4 seconds of dong.

That was definitely an interesting direction for the last third of this game. Loved it!

I was coming around on Emily until she was an ass to Matt at the end. What the fuck that dude died trying to save her and she saw him trying. Was that just a glitch or something?

I doubt they will but I'd love to see a second playthrough by them in late October

It definitely feels like the game was reading a different variable there. At the same though not exactly out of character either so maybe it works.

@jadegl: Yeah, the acting was pretty much perfect for what the game was trying to do. Teens acting like teens in horror movies, and Stormare being the most Stormare possible. Love it.

@amyggen: Stormare was so great. I loved going back to scenes with him, especially the early ones where you're choosing things and answering his questions. It was really intense.

And even though I hated Emily with the heat of a thousand burning suns, I loved her too. She was so... easy to dislike, I think that character was pretty great too. Plus she had some super funny lines that helped break some tension. :)

GBE Playdates are the best thing on this site, right now.

That was awesome to watch, as I would never have played it because I don't have a PS4.... and I'm a scurdie cat.

This was a great series guys, was a really really fun watch.

If you guys decide to do extra life this year replaying this would be really cool. Especially if Austin or Vinny where at the controls.

lol that ending!

In light of recent media happenings...

"Where did she get that bag?"

Didn't the flamethrower guy LITERALLY JUST GIVE HER IT?

Flamethrower guy is an awesome character!

@efesell: It's based on their relationship values. If you have poor social links, even if they both survive until the end, she'll lie to the police and tell them Matt left her to die purely out of spite. On the other hand, if they're good, she'll realize what a total bitch she was to him even if he died.

Understand the palm of my hand.

Fuckin A

Aaah that makes more sense. I'd forgotten about those.

(Hid quote in spoiler block since it is sorta spoilery):

If that is truly the case, I think Until Dawn is a great game for the first experience, but it isn't really a game that you play multiple times (as some have chimed in to say), because in the end, the plot is actually quite a set path with two of the main characters. I can see it being more enjoyable if you have friends over and you want to see them experience the plot for the first time, but that is all.

So, I need to see some Wendi-Joe fan art from some of the awesome artists in this community. Please!

If you don't buy the game after having watched this then you are an asshole.

If you have already bought the game then you are an a-okay duder.

Simple as that.

Until Dawn is a great game it's just a shame that nobody is buying it because of let's plays.

One thing that I don't quite get: Flamethrower Guy implied that killing Wendigos was a very bad idea. But even when a bunch of Wendighosts are flying around, nothing comes of it. Sequel hook, or plot hole?

@castiel: The hell are you on about? The game is selling better than expected.

If you were to capture them then you have then contained forever. If you kill them then they are released and can possess the next person who meets the criteria. You'll see this happen in one version of the ending.

Ahhh, gotcha. That's the problem with the little buggers... whether they Wendi-stay or Wendigo, there's no getting rid of them for good. There will always be Wendi-mo'.

@geekmarty: Hey this is one instance where I'm happy to be wrong. But I do suspect all the let's plays are hurting this game more than helping it saleIs wise. But I also feel like Sony didn't do a bunch to promote it.

I would be fucking stoked if this game sells enough to warrant a sequel but I'm willing to bet that most people watching these playthroughs will never buy the game.

Actually that was okay.

What a fucked up ending!

You're absolutely kidding yourself if you think that watching this game being played is hurting sales. A $60 asking price for this game is an awfully hard sell for pretty much everybody but the most diehard of horror fans, especially when you compare it to other adventure-type games (you could, for example, get both seasons of The Walking Dead—and fuck it, throw Life is Strange on there too because that's a really good game—for $60). It's not until people actually see for themselves how well put together this game is—not to mention how much a playthrough can vary—that it doesn't seem all that outrageous and that's it's totally worth playing for yourself despite already having seen it. Obviously I can't make a value judgment for anybody but myself, but I can say for sure that I'm more likely to buy it at some point than ever before (still don't think $60 is worth it, but maybe some day).

Anyway, what will it take to get Alex to do more bad Žižek impersonations? I need that in my life.

This is not something I would have normally paid any attention to whatsoever. What a cool game! Thanks for the Playdates Beasts!

Hey, at least they didn't all die... Poor Mike and Ash!

And things were going so well!!