Giant Bombcast 08/19/2014

MonsterDunk....more like HorrorTroll!!!!!

Horror in video games has not been good for a while. True atmosphere and not relying on cheap jump scares. But I bet if Jeff honestly gave some time to classic horror games he wouldn't talk down as harshly.

nothing on the SOE event sad

That actually makes a lot of sense. Jeff really doesn't enjoy anything that has emotional subject content. Jeff is in fact, a robot.

I need to resubscribe to Eve Online so I can get some reading done. Nothing passes the time of multiple jumps, trading and mining better than a good novel.

Jeff has mentioned his dislike for horror a number of times on the Bombcast.

Heh, same here. I watched wrestling as a kid, it was fun, but at 30 something age, it's just sad IMHO.

I know it's not really his fault but Jeff's attitude towards horror really annoys me.

@metalliccookies: Hah! I was just about to post the same thing. Although it's kind of perfect that Jeff's favourite Indian food is basically chicken and ketchup.

Jeff's thing with horror games makes it sound like he is unable, or perhaps unwilling, to separate himself from reality enough when playing, which seems like a bummer to me. Thinking "this is a video game" when playing a game is probably a great way to make them way more lame. Also, asking how someone could be scared by playing a game is like asking how someone could be excited or sad by playing a game. I don't usually take anything said on the bombcast too seriously, but as someone who literally can't play horror games because I am so easily paralyzed with fear, the whole thing felt a little condescending.

Re jeff and horror: He has strong opinions and plays it up for comedic effect. At least he admits to his feelings on it and discusses it and tries to understand why he doesnt react to it. I may not be the same way at all (Blair Witch gets to me like nothing else), but he has his opinion that he explained thoroughly and i can respect that.

Tons of people on these forums have similar extreme black and white views on shit.

@jonny_anonymous: I'd say it's definitely his fault that he hates 90% of games.

@ripelivejam said:

this

@ripelivejam: except it wasn't funny

I love Brad as host of the show - great job!

SOOOO much lip smacking in this episode. So all you misophonia suffers out there maybe turn the volume down or not wear headphones if you want to listen to this one.

In no way was this played up for comedy effect, it was just him being annoyed at people for reacting differently to things than he does.

Yeah I never noticed it before but maybe Jeff only plays games purely from a technical/academic point of view? Maybe he's just not in to the atmosphere/world/story of a game and only really cares about how it looks and plays. That's something I'm going look out for with his videos now.

It's finally happening! The bomb crew is becoming addicted to mobile games. Jeff says he spent 5 dollars on that WWE game, how long before it's 50$ and then 500$!

Very confused on how they don't know about Heroes of Order and Chaos which is exactly like DOTA, with the three lanes and everything. Playable on the iPhone over LTE. Dota everywhere!

Jef does not get immersed? Is that maybe why he doesn't feel that a video game or movie can be scary? Because forgetting that it is a game and that you are not a part of that game, that is what makes it work. You let your mind pretend that it is real. Has Jef ever tried letting his mind pretend?

Is it something he actively rejects? I wonder, does he ever get lost in thoughts when using public transit? Did he ever play pretend as a kid? Maybe he has become too analytical to immerse himself?

I have seen that happen to a musician. One day he couldn't listen to music any longer. He couldn't just let his mind and body be carried by the music, couldn't let the music in. Instead all he could do was analyze it because that is what he normally has to do. He lost the ability to enjoy the music as a listener. He could appreciate it for what it is, and respect the amount of effort that goes into making music, and the music could surprise him, but he couldn't just listen to music and enjoy it just for that. Nothing tragic, but it just reminded me of that.

Jeff is such a badass I wish I was like him but apparently I'm just a child. Jeff should stream himself playing Silent Hills P.T. to show how badass he is.

@jimminibob said:

Can we get a premium video of this with a jar, @jeff!

Jeff saying he can't possibly get scared while playing videogames is the same thing as people saying they've guessed the ending of the Sixth Sense halfway through - it's just bragging and it makes you look stupid. I'm not saying Jeff would scream his lungs out playing P.T. but I'm pretty sure no one simply walks through P.T. without your heart rate elevating.

In Brad's defense, $245 is still less than the cost of 10 years of WoW. (I'm gonna put that in the ballpark of $900 or so, and another $200 in expansion packs, since I have been off and on with it)

Either way, if you enjoy a game for that many hours, it's probably worth the money.

To be fair people only spend 9.99 a month on wrestling now

Matt Rorie was great on this episode & unless there is any reason that I'm not aware of (scheduling etc), I hope he will be on much more frequently, like maybe every week....

I agree with Jeff completely about feeling compelled to multitask while playing games. I'm almost always listening to podcasts or watching GB videos while I play my games. My free time is limited, so I need to get the most out of it.

"Why would you have MGS5 on Steam if it's already 1080p 60?"..how about this Brad: it's for those people, like myself, that don't own consoles..maybe it's because of that.

But no, everyone assumes everybody has all the consoles. -_-

Rorie not being able to come up with any big Vita titles coming up just goes to show just how much the Vita has been abandoned by Sony's marketing department. Freedom Wars is one of the biggest titles the Vita had in ages and nobody in the West has apparently even heard of it outside of the hardcore Vita audience.

I know what you mean Somejerk as I have both a PC and a PS4.

Personally I'm enjoying my PC way more, as I have over a thousand games on Steam and 3 on PS4. I really need the system to age so I have more titles to choose for - eg Playstation Now arriving.

Hmm that being said I need to get my HD remake of The Last of Us :)

P.S. The XBone is a joke of a console. thanks for all your exclusives coming to PC Phil Spencer :)

Yeah I kinda call BS on that too. That sort of thing makes me roll my eyes a bit, and reminds me that Jeff sometimes a bit trollish... He often says silly shit, but it's mostly somewhat self deprecating and knowingly dumb, and that's funny as... But sometimes he rants on, getting more and more serious, and it just seems a bit lame and immature.

I mean, sure, playing Silent hill or Dead Space or Resident Evil nowadays, I find it possible that other than basic jumpscares, you wouldn't really be affected in any major way. Possibly if you aren't paying attention while playing P.T. it may not have any major effect either. And yes, even as effective as Outlast was initially, constant repetition do hamper the effect.

But in games such as Amnesia or Outlast, there is in fact a more physiological response too. Your physical response may vary, some people might be less shaken by it, but it does happen. And the actual jump scare is just the release, very different from expectation, that's where the fear lies, not knowing when something will happen but dreading that it will eventually come.

And there is actually very little intellectual processing in that.

So, yeah sure, there's a matter of focus and of sustained intensity that clearly defines the effect the media has on you. It's likely that if you mute the game, pump Taylor Swift's latest album, and watch wrestling while you play, it might not scare you in any way.

That I understand, and Jeff clearly seems to be dismissive of any form of "emotional engagement", so I imagine that he actively detaches himself from the experience, but then his assessment seems to end up only considering the basest appreciation of games. If you don't commune with the game's universe then what's there? more efficient programming? tighter physics? prettier pictures? In the abstraction of the technology lies its significance...

It shocks me that he looks down on the potential of video games as a vehicle for emotive communication... "it's just a fucking videogame?" Sort of what like my grandparents would say.

In fact between Ingress and this, it makes me wonder about his decision to dedicate himself to video-games. Really, what ARE you doing with your life Jeff? haha.

But honestly I don't mean to be offensive though, just seems a bit odd to get stuck on that. Games are effectively scary (or capable of inspiring all sorts of emotion) because they manage to suspend your disbelief, just like a movie or a book, the audience feels like it is part of the fiction, so what happens in it becomes actually real. Even if we obviously understand that it isn't real.Questioning the ability to suspend your disbelief as a whole is a much bigger (and more controversial) discussion.

Jeff is, damn I like the guy but hearing him talk about the horror stuff was agonizing. I was almost shouting at my monitor, "ITS CALLED IMMERSION!"... and suspension of disbelief!

I feel sorry for anybody who is lacking this from their gaming/entertainment experience. I'm not even sure he`s actually like that tho. I think it might of just been a little bit of bravado, you know... "Im clever enough I just reason my way around the fear, im not a kid." actually a bit immature in itself tho as I believe most are capable of this just they choose to willfully immerse themselves for the experience.

In relation to the horror thing,

I recall Jeff talking about hohokum and that he didn't really get it at first, but then he chose to kind of go into it with a different mindset other than the usual, "What are the mechanics of this thing? HOW DO I SHOOT?" and then he started getting that game.

Its kind of similar with horror. Its easy to dismiss it if you willingly detach yourself from the proper contexts needed to immerse yourself within it. Its very much an immersion sort of thing.

I'm not that into horror, (particularly horror movies) but its not hard to understand why it can scare people. Talking down to them like Jeff did was a bit eyeroll inducing.

Jeff, play P.T. with the lights off, headphones on, and record it.

Oh please, save the macho bullshit. This isn't me beating my chest and saying I'm tough. This is me legitimately wondering what it is that people (in this case adults with opinions I really respect) see in that genre. And the answers I get back seem so half-hearted that I just can't understand how people get legitimately scared by this stuff. Startled and jumpy, sure. But legitimately scared? Why? How?

Man I usually don't mind when the guys get stuff wrong, but they are super uninformed about what PT is in relation to Silent Hill. Kinda annoying given it was the biggest news in gaming last week.

EDIT: Holy shit Jeff's scare conversation goes south fast. I don't mind him not being scared, but calling people who do get scared by horror movies and games "fucking children?" What's up with that?

The Giant Bomb Unarchived mention made me go check out the YouTube channel, and there's so much shit I never realized was streamed. Whoever's behind that effort, you are crazy and awesome. I'm scared of how big that channel will be when it's all been uploaded.

Because like Brad said, it's all about the tension. The build up. At least it is for me. The actual "scare" itself is usually a jump scare.

Check out this movie called "The Descent". The build up is fantastic. I almost felt the characters' claustrophobia and isolation during the first half. However, I lost all interest after they fully revealed the monsters in the movie because all sense of mystery was lost. My mind was making up all sorts of stories and trying to explain every noise here and there, and no matter how good the writing is, the "reveal" simply will not measure up. Nothing will beat the sense of tension you feel when you don't know what exactly is behind the curtain.

Look at any let's play of a horror game. People are usually on the edge of their seats until the reveal, and once something does pop up, they scream - yeah - but they usually start laughing afterwards, because all tension is lost.

And when you add interactivity to the mix, you have a far more potent experience. Mainly because you're the one directly responsible for what's going to happen next. You don't know which path to take, which object to interact with, whether or not you should look behind you (that last one is a bit cliche, but you know what I mean). You're entirely responsible for the build-up and sometimes you just want to get the scare over with because the tension is too much to bear. It's fantastic what games can do for horror.

Of course, I'd also like them to explore the psychological aspects of horror (depression, suicidal tendencies, for example - a good movie for that is The Last Will and Testament of Rosalind Leigh), but we've got a long way to go in that respect.

Yeah maybe "fucking children" struck a nerve, though i personally don't give a shit. But i thought you guys wanted jeff and co. to be honest about their opinions, to not pull punches. Can't really have it both ways. Anyway besides that very debatebly unfortunate turn of phrase (and maybe you shouldnt let such an insignificant thing get to you so much?) I maintain that jeff expressed himself just fine.

So good podcast as usual? Have rorie on more often? Keep it up as an awesome host brad?

Not really my point, to be honest. I meant that I'll never understand how someone likes wrestling, and I'm okay with that. I don't find it "sad" or anything else of the sort.

I only wish that people would give that same level of respect to other people's opinions. I don't care what you do for entertainment (of course, as long as it doesn't harm anyone else). And I may not always know why - but that's a-ok with me.

No one is obliged to explain their interests to me. It would be nice if they could, but insulting them when they can't convince you makes no sense.

@jeff: A lot are basically giving you the answer that its about immersion. If you consider that a half-hearted answer, then they can't help you. That's your weird problem.

You should give P.T. a shot to see if its any different than the other horror you've seen. While recording it of course.

Now I'm only 21 and wouldn't really consider myself an adult, but as someone who has a legit fear of the dark, that genre just messes with my head. At least, certain things does. Alien abduction and home invasion movies very rarely does anything for me (other than Black Christmas, fuck that shit), but the more ghoulish and creepy monster movies, especially the Italian and Japanese just sparks my imagination. I know creepy ghost girls and possessive demons aren't real (at least I don't believe in them), but I can still imagine them, lurking in the darkness, at the end of a hallway or the other side of a mirror.

I think the reason you mostly get half-hearted answers is because terror is such a subjective feeling. So it can be hard to describe to other people other than "well that monster jumped at me and was all gross and shit. That really startled me." I didn't find Dead Space remotely scary, but I know there's tons of people out there that did. I mostly enoy horror movies, not because I find them scary, but because I find them entertaining. The characters and themes are often more interesting than your standard action or romance flicks, at least to me. The movies I watch to be scared, I watch to challenge myself more than anything.

Next time Jeff is down in the San Fernando Valley he should check out California Tikka Chicken. I love that place though I don't make enough money to feast there as often as I'd like. I love their tender chicken skewers a la carte but they make some good rice, nan bread, and even seasoned steak fries if you are so inclined. I'm glad to hear Jeff sounding cold on Summerslam as well. Looking forward to the next Powerbombcast to get his full thoughts.

I can kind of see where Jeff is coming from with his thoughts on the horror genre. I've been known to enjoy a good horror movie or game in my time but they're not really the kinds of entertainment I gravitate towards anymore. Not because of me being too scared or squeamish but because I just can't take them seriously. Most of the time I watch horror movies nowadays is with women since they tend to like that stuff. I think an oppressive atmosphere can help enhance a game or movie but it's not a guaranteed selling point to me personally unless it offers a cool experience. Having said that, Patrick's quick look of P.T. kind of legitimately freaked me out in a way I wasn't expecting. Granted having Patrick's reaction dubbed over it kind of made it hilarious anyway.

Great podcast this week minus the continuation of Brad's Dota 2 talk. You're doing great as a host Brad but how much longer are you going to keep talking about that game?

Even as someone who doesn't really play horror games, I can definitely see how P.T. can be pretty damn scary, even to an 'adult', if you're playing in the dark, with head phones on, without you or someone sitting beside you cracking jokes, without a chat window open beside you, without the tv on, etc. Basically, fully immersing yourself. Drinking helps too.

Also a good horror game is completely different from a movie since you're the one in control and not just watching events happen without input.

-Then

-Now

-Forever

also, what an amazing breath of fresh air dan ryckert has been to the podcast. fantastic stuff. he is just the right kind of weird for this group.

Does Matt know that dinosaur means 'terrible lizard'?

You probably already know this but the 'Fight or Flight' response generated by fear gives an adrenaline rush. The anticipation of a jump scare or the hanging fear of an unknown, horrible entity in a game/movie is where the body builds up adrenaline (fun for some, silliness for others).

Now the amount of emotional pleasure one gets from extended periods of fear is more subjective. I distinctly remember a good BBC piece on this subject where they said only about 10% of the population actually derive pleasure from being legitimately scared, and are far more likely to enjoy horror movies and such. I was looking around the internet for some papers to back up my argument, like they did but alas, all I could find were articles from About(dot)com and other similar places so all this might as well be gibberish.

Point being: there is an actual physiological correlation between fear and excitement. I can not do this justice so I hope a bombcast listener with a psychology degree can send in an email or something to explain the phenomena better.

I used to enjoy horror games but after playing a few, you start to recognize the patterns and how the developers are trying to create/construct tension. And once that happened, it became hard to immerse myself and actually get scared. It doesn't help when games like Amnesia or Outland have supernatural elements in them. The more fantastical a game gets, the harder it becomes for me to get scared.

These days the things that usually scare me are more about how horrible one person can be to another. Like the character of Sander Cohen in Bioshock, or every person ever in the STALKER series. Sometimes even those things go beyond reason to a degree of silliness though.

Oh, most definitely. I think it was Yahtzee Croshaw talking about Dead Space where he said the game was less "scary" and more "startle-y". A thingy jumps out at you, and you get spooked, and then what? It's just a game, and ESPECIALLY if you end up dying, the tension is usually lost forever. I mean, I get why people like it, but it's not like video games put you in any real danger: if anything, that's the point. It's why people like slasher flicks: you wanna see a bunch of sexy teens get killed, I guess, in a fairly safe environment.

I'm more confused about the multi tasking while gaming talk this week. So you play a game you don't care enough about to pay 100% attention to, and watch a movie or show that you likewise don't really care about - so in the end you're doing two things you don't care about at the same time?

It just seems like you could be doing one thing that really interested you instead.

Listening to a podcast while grinding away experience in an MMO I can understand - but playing an MMO and half watching a TV show seems like you're missing out on both things equally.