Giant Bombcast 534: Forklift Academy

@drachmalius: I burnt out as well but I got a lot further than Jeff. I just could slowly sneak under another small tunnel or do anymore Uncharted platforming and ghost fetch quests. It's a well made game with enough annoying quirks to get me to quit.

go dubs nice filename

i smell a rocky film and 40's series

@lumpofdeformity:

Well put. It's unfortunate that he threw in his lot with GamerGate at an early stage and I don't think anyone who's had his fanbase sicced on them will be expected to forgive or forget. He was a complicated guy with a lot of influence and power and he didn't always use that power responsibly. But it did feel like he distanced himself from that garbage and his death was still desperately sad.

People are complicated and some of us make shitty decisions that we regret later on. I did see though that Vinny tweeted his condolences to his wife though.

There wasn't anything on TB over at waypoint and it seems like they locked the thread for his passing, for what that's worth

@mindkiller: The Gamergate stuff is obviously a huge black mark on his legacy and I wish he never tried to moderate this "movement". It was neither the place nor the time to have a rational discussion about gaming journalism and I still can't fathom how he thought he was going to steer this Titanic of a phenomenon.

Having said all that, he has still done some really positive things for a lot of gamers and he deserves to be remembered. I love Giant Bomb and their content but this decision is just so disrespectful and bad. Man... I'm just very ,very sad :( :( :(

Honestly, are some of y'all actually asking them to put out some eulogy or statement that they didn't really feel in their hearts?

I feel like not saying anything at all is better than saying something that felt forced or insincere.

@muttersometaxicab: Yeah, some of this seems like a pretty severe overreaction and is more off-putting than the issue itself.

Why is there an "obligation" for GB to mention TB's passing? It's a tragedy, for sure (FUCK cancer), but GB never interacted with TotalBiscuit, never had him on as a guest and hardly (if ever) mentioned his YouTube videos at all (just as they don't mention most other YouTube "influencers".)

Irrational conspiracy theories are a pet peeve of mine, and this "blaaaaargh GB snubbed TotalBiscuit because POLITICS" is a textbook case of irrational-conspiracy-theory.

@dasakamov: wasn't TB on their couch one year at E3?

Jeff kinda really down on God of War. To not even bother finishing it, thats some mighty indifference. I wouldn't say it's the greatest game I played in years but I was driven enough by the story to see it to the end.

Re: TB there is too much bad blood between the site's staff and Bain for there to be room for a memorial news story. It'd be either fake or in bad taste.

Jeff often talks about how the games journalism field is no longer cutthroat but he doesn't factor in esports and YouTube. This highlights just how big the gap is and how hostile things are. It's sad to see people with blue checkmarks going to war over TB's death and saying very ugly things in public.

There is a major political divide between games media and esports/YT which houses more conservative and libertarian types. The gap is pushed in both directions. Like, a major announcer screamed the n-word as an insult against a black viewer on stream two months ago -- which for those keeping count is 100x worse than Roseanne and 10x worse than PewDiePie -- and is working a major gig this week. Point being this divide between the two has pushed both sides to extremes and is why something like TB highlights so much wrong with the climate of the industry when viewed as a whole.

EDIT: I have mixed feelings on TB. He was a complicated person. One minute he's providing a safe space for autistic fans, the next he's literally using autism as an insult and saying it's okay because he worked with autistic kids (WTF?) And he was the catalyst for GamerGate. I couldn't believe it myself but I went back and documented the movement years ago. It was a small thing until he started public beef with Zoe Quinn which combined his massive audience with the 4chan trolls, snowballing into a movement. I don't think he wanted or planned it, but he never apologized. I can understand he can't be responsible for his fans, but he should have taken that beef offline especially knowing she was getting it from all ends at the time. He did a lot of good for the community but also a lot of bad. A complicated person who many have complicated feelings toward.

I think folks make-believing it was an oversight their not mentioning TB’s passing are pleased they (purposely) didn’t say anything. PDP’s dropping the n-word was addressed in the first available Bombcast, but point me in the direction of a video or audio clip produced within the last 3-5(?) years in which anyone on staff ever talked about him at length.

@dasakamov: Guess you never watched Bombin' the AM eh? Or the episode of Jar Time when Jeff said they once considered offering to employ him?

I'll echo a lot of the other people in here who think it's pretty shitty of them to not at least mention it. They'll spend entire segments talking about dumb shit someone mildly relevant said on Twitter (as long as it's not one of their friends) but when one of the most influential figures in the games press (and yes, YouTube is part of that now, whether you like it or not) passes away after continuing to work, despite having terminal cancer? Silence. Just like when they refused to cover Kingdom Come: Deliverance, a game they "weren't interested in", despite it being right up several of their alleys. Anyone with half a brain knows that wasn't why. Developers all over the industry who never knew him were posting about him and how sorry they were to hear of his passing. Hell, even Patrick Klepek, who distanced himself from TB because of political disagreements retweeted the news of his passing. They don't really have an excuse, beyond editorial cowardice.

I've been a viewer of Giant Bomb since day one and until recently, had been a Premium member since the day memberships started. But this place and the personalities on it feel more and more like they're just going through the motions, going out of their way to not say anything controversial or offend any of their "friends" in the wider games press, who are always on the prowl for the next target to tear apart for being "problematic." Compared to even a couple of years ago and especially, the time when Ryan was still with us, this place is a shadow of what made it amazing.

I really hoped their silence on TB wouldn't happen. I frankly thought it would but I was so hoping they'd prove me wrong. I'm probably going to write a post on my blog at some point going into greater detail but honestly, after this, I think I'm done here. I've barely watched any videos in months (hence why I cancelled my Premium) and the podcasts have just become boring and clearly with things like this, the passion is gone and this is just a job to them.

It's their site, they can run it how they want and I'll never say otherwise. But yeah, I'm thinking this place isn't for me any more and judging from how the amount of comments on everything is a fraction of what it used to be, I have a feeling I'm not the only one.

@dasakamov: Yea that is the weirdest thing people are upset about. There have been plenty of tributes to TB already. Why does the GB have to do so to a person they never followed or even chatted with.

@wasabicurry: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW_DhrStuwA

@lamneth: Got one with Jeff, Brad, or any of the west coast people?

@pxabstraction: Sorry, I don't recall every Giant Bomb video ever produced - especially when it was *five years ago*.

I'm still not seeing why people think they're *entitled* to a eulogy from Giant Bomb as a whole. Is it because both GB and TotalBiscuit happened to both talk about video games? By that same logic, are the same people upset ANY time someone in one journalistic field neglects to mention the passing of someone else in that same field? I have my doubts. Rather, it seems like people are taking this opportunity to vent about their own perceptions of GB's "political bias".

EDIT:

And all this seems ESPECIALLY unnecessary given that, as someone else pointed out, individual GB staff have already offered condolences to Mr Bain's family.

@lumpofdeformity: Nope. Death doesn't make a shitty person not shitty. You want Giant Bomb to close their eyes and eulogize a garbage human? For what? He is a moderately large internet personality, he did nothing positive for gaming other than be one voice of many, and the list of shit he did to make women, and others, feel less safe, including leading gamergate assholes is plenty long.

People that want a eulogy from GB for anyone like him clearly don't fucking pay attention to the people that run this site.

@ericsmith: He was an arrogant asshole that thought he could redirect that toxic anger into something positive. That was obviously a huge mistake and we both know he instead helped the entire "rational gamer" thing to form and thrive. But putting him in the same basket as Sargon and other fuckers is crazy. He never used any of the hateful rhetoric and he distanced himself from GG as soon as it became clear it's just an excuse for "rational gamers" to punish women for not being attracted to them.

Should he have been involved in all of it in the first place? Fuck no. But you know what? he made a huge mistake and he paid for it. You seem to be painting him as some woman-hating monster and that's just wrong. There are so many that deserve your attention much more than John. I detest the festering cancer on the ass of the gaming community that is anti-feminism. John Bain separated himself from all of that as soon as it became clear what it really is.

Dammit, I haven't even watched his channel in like two years. I just believe the guy deserves a small obituary for promoting PC gaming. Is that so crazy?.

@lumpofdeformity: Yes. It's crazy. And he was clearly anti-feminist considering he used MRA talking points more than once, and never fucking apologized for any of the shit that he said or did. It's crazy to think that GB owes a shithead a eulogy, especially when they had no real ties to the dumb fuck.

Instead of writing multiple paragraphs to multiple people in here about how you think he is owed a eulogy, you should go on Twitter and read some of the things women have said regarding his asshole mob of followers that he directed at them. Discount all of that, numerous times he would direct his followers to a game dev knowing full well that his fans are ravenous children that do nothing but attack. He never once tried to say, "hey, guys, I know this game sucks, but don't be an asshole about it. Making bad games is tough, making good games is very difficult. Attacking someone over this isn't going to make anything better. In fact, they read and see the criticism, they know their game is poor, attacking them personally will only make things worse for them going forward."

He knew the hammer that he wielded, and he swung it at nails, and heads alike with zero regard for the actual thing on the receiving end. He aimed to hurt, and he took glee in it.

You want a eulogy from GB that might be a slightly nicer version than that? What does that get you. They aren't going to play some identity politics bullshit game. If they get attacked for not saying anything, they clearly don't care. And good for them on it.

I find that the combat in God of War didn't get better for me until Kratos was more upgraded which happened to be a little bit after where Jeff left off (That last fight in Alfheim took me over 10 attempts). I also found that the fights were frustrating until I stopped being cheap with my exp and dumped it into Artreus, then the game was a lot more enjoyable. I also played the game on hard because normal felt a little too easy.

Death doesn’t guarantee acknowledgement and/or praise from others. I’d rather ppl say nothing as opposed to forced/phoned in heartfelts. Doesn’t necessarily make it disrespectful.

Here's something you duders are missing. Ted Dabney was a games industry figure, TB was not. He was a games coverage figure. They rarely discuss news about games coverage or the people who work in it on the Bombcast. It's not that they never mention those stories (since they've talked about PewDiePie), but it's very rare.

I imagine if any decently well known developer dropped dead today, they'd talk about it on the next Bombcast, but I doubt they'd mention it if, say, Jim Sterling died. That isn't political, it's simply what they want to cover on the podcast; they focus on the people who make games, not the people who review/play them. Probably the only games coverage people they'd eulogize (outside of one of their own dying again) is former members or people who appeared on a lot of GB shows (like Danny O'Dwyer or Mary Kish). TB was on a couple GB things years ago, but that's true of a lot of people.

I'd perhaps go a step further and call them a bad person. Their lack of empathy is startling.

@fixerofdeath: I'm empathetic to the people whose lives he made worse. I'm empathetic to the people that had to deal with such a raging asshole. I'm not empathetic to people who deliberately, maliciously used their position to attack those with a lower social standing for no other reason than that was what they *wanted* to do.

If that makes me a bad person in the eyes of some internet people that clearly have no one in their lives that has been at the bottom end of the boot of his, or even someone like his, then so be it. I've made my choice to throw in my lot with the victims, not the abusers.

@ericsmith:

First of all, I'm not a fan of him. He had a nasty habit of prolonging his videos by incessantly repeating 3 or 4 valid points he had. I didn't enjoy any of his editorial content and I was only watching his podcast until 2016. Not hating the guy is hardly being a fan...

I'm defending him only because I am myself not necessarily long for this world (it's complicated, basically i may die tomorrow or in 10 years, there's a lot of argument in the medical community :P). It's OK, you didn't know and no one here should blame you for it (seriously, guys). I just know this: I fucked up a lot and I often hurt my loved ones. But I also know that I brought a bit of joy to quite a few people. Basically, I would wanna wish that despite my shortcomings I will be remembered fondly. Because fuck-ups are rarely caused by the corruption of one's heart and 1 or 2 acts rarely define a person.

The Totalbiscuit I knew from the podcast was a gigantic arrogant asshole that sometimes acted like he's the ultimate authority on gaming. But he was also respectful to all his guests, no matter what gender or sexuality they were. I'm not an avid follower of Twitter but I really did make an effort to find all his tweets from that time and everything I could find comes back to what I previously said. He thought that he's so fuckin awesome that he can use his star power to steer the discourse away from the abuse and shittiness that was going on by being "objective".

It was a huge miscalculation of a man that clearly loved himself too much. It was stupid and it certainly contributed to the nonsensical abuse of women and other minorities. Hell is paved with good intentions and this entire debacle should and can not be forgotten. But he was no Cosby or Spacey and he should never be treated like he was.

He was a terribly flawed person but he meant a lot to many good people and he became a significant figure in the Youtube revolution by creating the site's largest game critique channel. No one should take that away from him.

No one on the internet likes me now :P Oh well... :P

exceptionally shitty TB didn't even get a mention. they did know him as his name has cropped up many a time over the years.

The BBC had him as front page news and the site I look up to for a reasoned approach to everything game related doesn't as so much as blink to it.

he did alot for the gaming community, no shit he had his bad points but who the hell doesnt.

feels like politically motivated bs, pretty gross guys.

Some people here saying they didn't mention TotalBiscuit out of politics -- c'mon, no, that's a childish reason to outright assume. The others weirdly defending not mentioning a his death as if they actively decided against it because of his politics as if he's not worthy or something, ew. may be more disgusting to assume. Having never watched any of the content aside from seeing him as a guest on Alex and Patrick's show, I felt like they should have mentioned it for five seconds even, just because if anything it's a thing that happened and he is a prominent figure in YouTube, which time and time again they've said has some prominent influence in video games, he's not just a nobody, whether you agreed with whatever movement he was in or not. I think they even brought up when he was diagnosed with brain cancer, so might as well follow up with it. Doesn't really matter, isn't gonna take away from his fanbase or legacy that he's had in the let's play scene, and for all I know it really did just slip their minds, beats me, not gonna make some melodramatic argument about it.

@lumpofdeformity: Cosby and Spacey are really bad ppl. No one here is comparing this guy to them.

@shorap: I apologize, you're tight. That was a dumb comparison. I used them as a shorthand for a disgraced celebrity, sorry.

To be honest, I think Rocky 2-4 had just the right amount of dumb for Jeff to get into. Thunderlips, Clubber Lang and Ivan Drago are basically Punch out characters.

I recall reading that Valve offered to disable in-app purchases through the Steam Link app, but I'm struggling to find a source to confirm that. Either way, if that were the only issue, it's weird that Valve wouldn't make that concession (and it's a little ridiculous that Apple want a cut for things they aren't selling and primarily aren't intended for their platform anyway).

Nah, they're kinda bullshit. Well the ones with the AoE that cover almost the entire arena, anyway. That crosses the line from difficult but fair into cheap. They're still totally doable though.

@dude559: They don’t owe him anything; it’s not disrespectful or in bad taste to just not talk about something.

And like Vinny alluded to, he’s hurt people they know. So I doubt you’d hear what you want to hear even if they did say anything.

Bump

Glad we won't see a PS5 for awhile. Gives the PRO a bit of room to float in the pool and let them hash out VR. I'm stoked to finally give RE7 VR a shot!

@ericsmith: Why be sanctimonious if you're just going to engage in nasty, overly-simplified vitriol yourself?

For whatever ills John Bain has done in his life, he left a lot of positive marks for a not-small number of people also. To dismiss that is not the truth.

I would also venture that sincerely calling someone "human garbage" backfires more on you than it reflects poorly on them.

I was also surprised that they didn't mention TB's passing especially when they had a segment on the death of another figure in the industry (extending that term to both production and coverage). I can't buy that they wouldn't have encountered some of the press coverage and just been unawares. But whether it slipped their minds temporarily (iffy), or they just had too many mixed feelings to want to discuss it, I'm not going to crucify them either way. It's their prerogative. In the end it's a very discretionary website, for better or worse. (Still kind of wish they had given it a quick mention, just as personal preference.)

For what it's worth: it was mentioned in the subsequent Beastcast, in which Vinny respectfully qualified the eulogizing by acknowledging the mixed feelings he had about Biscuit's role in GamerGate and the effect that had had on people they knew, but also expressing sympathy for the wife and child he had left behind. That seemed about the right tone to take to me.

All things good-and-bad coexist, even after death.