Giant Bombcast 557: Piranha Plant Did Nothing Wrong

Feels like I'm in the minority, but I haven't had a problem with RDR2's controls, never done anything by accident except for my own finger fumbling.

The Tetris/Tetromino talk made me remember this sketch:

I don't mind the controls as much as everybody else does in RDR2, but I understand why people do. I stumbled into people in towns and it says wanted, but as long as you don't run away but just wait until the cops come, they'll just ask you to walk away and you won't get a bounty.

As for the shooting, I constantly used dead eye at the start, but once I realized how generous the lock-on was, all I did was inch up a bit as soon as I locked and was just getting a bunch of headshots.

RDR2 is a good enough cowboy sim, but an awful video game.

Yeah, doesn't help that I'm also bored to death by Westerns AND Rockstar games, either. :(

I understand that a game can be more than the sum of its parts, but the thing I don't get is the game's universal perfect or near-perfect scores, despite the fact that so many people who really like it ALSO agree that the controls--the actual playing of the game--are not good. Also the bounty system sounds pretty bad, like in Skyrim.

This is neither a criticism of the criticism, nor a claim that the game is bad. It's just something I'm noticing with this game.

Did I hear something that they were planning some type of Bomberman content or was I misremembering from that email question?

@bsmittel: It seems that the game was only partially developed by Human Head. It was a Square Enix project that Human Head assisted with. Here's only thing on the Human Head website on The Quiet Man: https://www.humanhead.com/human-head-announces-partnership-square-enix/ They don't even list the game under the games heading on their website.

Human Head's involvement feel's a lot like Iron Galaxy's credit for the Batman Knight PC port, where no one outside the companies knows who was really responsible for the work.

jeff doesn't like red dead? im shocked!

@bladeofcreation: I liken it to a tedious task that nets overwhelming results. I imagine someone cooking a steak. Choosing the right cut. Making sure its trimmed well. Buying it from a place that ages the beef. Letting sit in room temp prior to seasoning. Searing it in a caste iron pan and finishing it in an oven for a few minutes till its just south of rare. Then pairing it with a good wine. Some people will look at that process and say that it is worth it and some people will say fuck that then get a burger.

This wasn't a great analogy(I have another that involves eating a luxury feast while wearing ovenmitts and while holding chopsticks) but I think simply put, there are critics willing to get a handle of the controls whether by learning them or just accepting it as is and enjoying the game. Alex gave it the highest score he could, despite having issues with it and it's evident that he likes it a lot.

@vicious17: I have that bug where camp members are missing. It’s a HUGE bummer.

I kept wondering what people were talking about when they were saying that just hanging out in camp was fun, because I was getting almost no interactions from anyone. Turns out it was probably because 1/4 of the gang wasn’t spawning.

It was also pretty weird when I rescued that woman 30 minutes into the game and then she seemingly disappeared. I actually was wondering if I missed a cutscene where she ditched us or something. Turns out it was just a bug and she was supposed to be there the whole time.

Not to mention how odd it was when people were talking about the Arthur/John feud when John wasn’t even in my camp.

Now that I’m halfway through chapter 3 and roughly 25 hours in, it makes sense why I’m not as attached the gang as everyone else seems to be.

I'm not as down on Red Dead as Jeff is, but I will admit, it's just not putting its hooks in me like Redemption 1 did. I really doubt I will even finish it before the end of the year, there are just other games that I would like to play before 2018 is done with, a big one being Hitman 2. That being said, I'll be damned if RDR 2 doesn't have some of the most impressive production value (if not THE best) of any video game I've ever seen.

@merxworx01: While it's not a perfect analogy, I'll work with you to understand it in this context (JUST LIKE THE CONTROLS IN RDR 2, GET IT?!). In the case of that analogy, I think you'd have to include the caveat that you were then served that delicious steak and had to eat it with no utensils. Everything else about the dining experience was amazing, but no utensils might sounds significant. Maybe you don't care about eating steak with your hands, though, so it doesn't factor into your Yelp review.

Just don't criticize other people for saying they don't like it, when they've made it clear for many years that the way the utensils are used is a big part of how much they like a meal. Not saying you in particular. Jeff often prioritizes gameplay, and REALLY likes fast gameplay.

I just find it hilarious that people are jumping on the oft-ridden, "Jeff hates popular games," train when he was the biggest voice in favor of last year's biggest (non-free) gaming trend.

@bladeofcreation: Well scores are universally dumb as everyone agrees but for me it's different depending on the scale. I really like RDR2 and I also agree the controls can be awkward at times - those criticisms are valid but not to the point where, as some have done, I would call them complete garbage or "unplayable." The entire package is amazing in my opinion, even though every missions is basically going somewhere and shooting doods, but the atmosphere and everything around that make that mundane task somehow special. Anyway, if I were to score it out of a 5 point scale then this is a solid 5/5 from me. IF I were to score it on a 100 scale then I would say it's a 90/100, as in really great but not perfect.

As for the internets grand praise from the publication side? I dunno, sometimes games sweep across the horizon at the same time sweeping reviewers off their feet in remarkable ways. I've said this before, but when you review games on a daily basis and get access to them ahead of time without financial consequences, like it or not your expectations and tolerances will change from that of the public. When I worked in movies and watched everything that came out, weeks ahead of time, for free, in a perfectly empty auditorium, at my own leisure - my view of films became very skewed from the viewing public that cherry picked what they would see and come away disappointing when the one free night of the week they had was spent on just a "good" movie as opposed to an amazing one. So it's possible that Red Dead 2 offers something that pulled a lot of reviewers entrenched in the daily grind of the biz out of some slump, or struck a nerve that other super well made games simply don't.

But as stated before, scores are super arbitrary so whatever.

Brad lived through this century without knowing about The Master of Disguise until now? They say ignorance is bliss but holy shit that statement has never rung truer.

Hmm, first to last comment view seems to be weird.

Jeff not liking this game was pretty predictable.

New feature: your favorite game is worse than you remember

@bladeofcreation: Sure I think your analogy still occupies the same meaning as mine did. My response to you regarding your post about the discrepancy within well rated reviews that are also critical of the game's controls was just an attempt to answer it. Apologies if it was a rhetorical.

People who are discussing other people's opinions are ok to a degree as long as it isn't an attack, that the critique of the critique actually has something meaningful to say with the full knowledge that irregardless of whether they agree with the reviewer that they must also accept that it is the reviewer's perspective of the subject. Period. And that the review is absolutely valid with no obligation to justify. I don't agree with everything in Alex's review but it is 100% his review. To be upset or angry that there was something in there that I didn't like makes zero sense since it was not my review. If there was something factually erroneous then there might be a case to call something out but as far as I know most of the reviews of this game I've read were fair and gave it it's due diligence.

This is also an important thing for some within the community to realize when GB GOTY comes around. That what ever ends up as GB top ten, it is the staff list. Not the public's, the internet's or the community. It's the list of the people in the room.

Ohhh man, I really can't believe Big Jeffrey doesn't like RDR 2! He was like the first one's biggest fan! Who could've possibly seen this coming?! Well, in any case, kudos to him for trying it out.

I can understand not liking RD2. It forces you to play it a very specific way.

Does anyone know if they are planning on archiving the West's Extralife stream. I know that they might not be able to do archive all the streams but just wanted to check.

Pirhanna Plant is one of my favorite new additions, it’s a great idea for a fighter and I don’t care what anyone says! Glad to hear Jeff and Ben are on the same page

I don't have a problem with Jeff criticizing RDR2, but it is hard to swallow when contrasted with his seemingly blissful ignorance of all the issues with BLOPS4. Also, the "game feels old" is not objective criticism (I only bring this up because several comments have pointed out that his criticism was objective). How does it feel old? Because it feels like GTAV? In that vein, BLOPS4 feels old.

I appreciate that it is part of the philosophy behind Giant Bomb but the way in which games can be so easily dismissed early on in the experience is really problematic when it comes to giving a more wholistic idea of what the game offers. Many people who have played RDR2 had similar experiences to Jeff early on but as they got further into the game these became less of an issue and have ended up with overwhelmingly positive experiences with the game. Jeff is justified in his decision to stop playing but I think this should limit the extent to which he is be able to influence discussion of RDR2 come GOTY time.

Side note but I wish they'd separate the actual podcast into chapters the way they label the video version with what game or topic they're talking about. Even if they don't do full-fledged chapters, it'd be nice to put timestamps in the show notes or something.

8-4 Play does this I believe and I really appreciate that.

Hey guys. Not sure why this podcast is now premium? I downloaded it yesterday and it was free? What's changed? I've been listening to your podcasts every single week since discovering them about two years ago now, so I really hope you haven't moved them behind a paywall. ?

Red Dead 2 might be the best thing that's ever happened to me in my life. I'm completely ok with people having different opinions. I just don't understand you at all.

Really love getting a fresh opinion on RDR2 that's not just universal praise and glazing over it's glaring faults or excusing them by saying things like "you'll get used to it".

What's bad is bad and should just be fixed, like CDPR fixed Witcher 3's shit movement with the alternative option thanks to people like Jeff who voice a strong opinion about how bad putting gameplay in 2nd place to overdone mo-cap animations can feel and why that's the wrong decision.

Fight the good fight for us Jeff.

Mr. Bean would also be a great elusive target!

I out loud went 'dude..' and started nodding in agreement/disgust when they got to the gin and juice email

I quit playing the original RDR after the horse threw me off of it during that race near the beginning of the game. XD

The whole thing with Blizzard and Diablo Immortal has just been really eye opening. I bet Blizzard's customer base is primarily an older PC-based audience at this point. I bet this is particularly true with the Diablo IP. So, the whole mobile announcement just goes to show you how out of touch Blizzard is with their customer base. This is something their PR and Marketing people should have known and should have done a better job communicating to the rest of the organization.

Minimally, Blizzard should have followed the mobile announcement with a teaser for some either Diablo 3 content or Diablo 4. If they had done that no one would have cared about the mobile announcement.

I have a feeling we're going to hear Jeff say the exact same things about RDR2 in the GOTY discussions.

Is anybody on the podcast playing RDR2 in first-person? The movement is so drastically different that I feel like it should be brought up.

It's funny, I had some small issues with the very same mission in RDR 2 that Ben mentioned. I won't give more story-related details but I'll spoiler it out since Ben gave a warning.

Because I've been semi-role playing in this game, when I got to the part of that mission where you roll up to the saloon, I stowed my rifles in my horse cargo. I was thinking, oh a saloon scene, I don't want my rifles poking off my back and this is probably just an end-of-mission cutscene anyways. And then that massive firefight comes out of nowhere. And guess what? Your horse is nowhere to be found. I tried to run off and find it so I could get my rifles to help me kill all those people, but the gang members were screaming at me to get back and I figured I would fail if I kept trying. So I had to do that whole shootout with only a revolver. Which isn't the end of the world, but less than ideal. It's just a dumb thing. That mission is rather poorly designed. Something I've been having a slight issue with RDR 2 that wasn't such a big problem in previous Rockstar games is how some missions thrust large changes on you (chapter endings and whatnot) with very little to no forewarning/signs that it's coming.

How the heck do I find the Premium video now? This new sight is super confusing to see versions of things.

Dunno if you're watching in a desktop web browser like me, but on the top right of the video window before you hit play there are some options, including a toggle switch for Premium/Non-premium which is a star and a star with a line through it.

I'm going to say that at least part of Jeff's problem with RDR2 is that he's playing it at the same time as Black Ops 4, because I feel like I'm having the same problems. In BO4, when you click in the left stick you are instantly at full sprint, and when you aim down sights it's very snappy as you'd expect. From a control standpoint, it's almost the very antithesis of RDR2 and I've had a hard time going back and forth between the two.

@redhotchilimist: When talking about Smash, I think it should be compared to other Smash titles and not to fighting games. While all the content you listed is impressive, the comparison to SFV is meaningless. As recent as this year's E3, no one was even sure if it was an actual new game or just getting the MK 8 Deluxe treatment. And it very clearly is a product with Smash 4 as its base, and then added on to it to make Smash Ultimate, so it's disingenuous to treat it like a brand new game. SFV on the other hand was made from the ground up with all new mechanics, graphics, stages, moves and frame data.

"Orange juice is very sour."

Rwby isn't anime.

Thanks.

Jeff's comments on Rick and Morty fans really rubbed me the wrong way. Maybe don't make such rash assumptions about millions of people, including a lot of your fans?