Has Sony gone a bit too far?

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#1 Edited by ch13696 (4582 posts) -

I always end up reading up on anything I can find as far as technology goes. Especially with the big 3 platforms. One of the companies, Sony, has been falling into some major legal battles lately. Especially the one with Geohot.

When it comes to technology freedom, I always side with hackers. This isn’t the kind of hacking where I like to ruin everyone’s experience, this is more of I want to see how far this technology can go under my own personal use. It’s not a “stick it to the man” situation, it’s more of “damn, I have to try that”. I also understand the companies ToS (Terms of Service) and I totally agree with them. That’s why I’m not putting my equipment online.

Anyways, the reason why I’m posting this is that I want to talk to you guys about a new situation that popped up with the Geohot case. If you click on the link below, there is a news article that states that Sony managed to get the OK to obtain every IP address that visited Geohots website between January of 2009 to Present. They also won subpoenas for data from YouTube and Google, as well as Twitter account data that is linked to Geohots. What does worry me is what they will do with this data. Will they use this to link everyone that visited Geohots anywhere on the internet to Geohots himself or will this just be basic data to gather and see how many visitors he does get?

I may be a little paranoid, but I’m just looking out for everyone that either accidentally stumbled upon his site through a crappy search engine and the people that just like to follow hacking news.

What do you guys think? Let’s discuss this matter. 

 
http://psgroove.com/content.php?837-Sony-Obtains-IP-Addresses-of-Geohot-Site-Vistors
#2 Posted by Terry_Bogard (302 posts) -

Yeah, Sony's taken this too far. Anyone who supports their behavior is retarded.. seriously.  

#3 Posted by Cameron (595 posts) -

I imagine this will just be a number that Sony can throw around in court. They can cite how many unique IPs visited his site and then claim (probably misleadingly) that this resulted in X amount of PS3's being compromised.

#4 Posted by kingzetta (4307 posts) -
@Terry_Bogard said:
" Yeah, Sony's taken this too far. Anyone who supports their behavior is retarded.. seriously.   "
Well would you like it, someone made a thing could collapse your business?
#5 Posted by Animasta (14643 posts) -
@Cameron said:
" I imagine this will just be a number that Sony can throw around in court. They can cite how many unique IPs visited his site and then claim (probably misleadingly) that this resulted in X amount of PS3's being compromised. "
yeah this sounds likely
#6 Posted by StaticFalconar (4849 posts) -

Thing is, the whole big corporations versus hackers thing, really is a case of programmers that made it big and have a steady income versus programmers that doesn't and lives off infamy. On both sides they are human beings trying on up each other fueled by different intents. So if I was a hacker and I want to know as much as possible about the company I hacking into, I would probably find some way to see the IP addresses and such that they were conspiring/connected to. Does it ever lead to anything? Maybe, who knows, its just data mining, but since these programmers are on the side of big corp, they can use the legal ways like file lawsuits and subpoenas instead of hack into the other hackers and see the list of IP addresses that way.  
 
So honestly, I don't see it as any different other then the big corp uses different tools to achieve the same means. 

#7 Posted by the_OFFICIAL_jAPanese_teaBAG (4307 posts) -
@kingzetta said:
" @Terry_Bogard said:
" Yeah, Sony's taken this too far. Anyone who supports their behavior is retarded.. seriously.   "
Well would you like it, someone made a thing could collapse your business? "
totally agree with you.  i personally dont think its right to download something for free like music and games.  but i guess im a hypocrite cause i have a shitload of music i downloaded for free
#8 Posted by Zaft (122 posts) -
@kingzetta said:
" @Terry_Bogard said:
" Yeah, Sony's taken this too far. Anyone who supports their behavior is retarded.. seriously.   "
Well would you like it, someone made a thing could collapse your business? "
But this can't collapse their business.
First off, let's look at Microsoft and Nintendo. Both the Xbox and the Wii have been hackable for years now, the Wii hackable the day it came out, and the Xbox within about two years. Has Nintendo "collapsed"? What about Microsoft?
Second, since this is a Geohot case we're talking about, Mr. Hotz never did anything to actually harm PlayStation. He simply found the root code and released it to the public. This is the same as finding how to make nuclear energy and releasing it to the public. Can somebody ELSE take it and turn it into something bad? Of course (see: nuclear weapons). But Mr. Hotz didn't, and you can't attempt to blame by that sort of association, at least not in the United States. It simply won't fly.
 
I don't pirate games. I don't have a hacked system. But I do support people who wish to hack their own consoles. It's theirs, after all. If they were renting it from Blockbuster (I did that when I was young with the N64...can you even do it anymore now? heh), then obviously, it would be a problem. But their console is theirs to do with as they like.
#9 Posted by Pinworm45 (4088 posts) -
@kingzetta said:

" @Terry_Bogard said:

" Yeah, Sony's taken this too far. Anyone who supports their behavior is retarded.. seriously.   "
Well would you like it, someone made a thing could collapse your business? "
http://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSE:SNE
#10 Posted by Terry_Bogard (302 posts) -
@kingzetta: I kind of understand their thinking.. kind of. They don't want the PS3 turning into the PSP, so they're gonna try and make an example out of Geohot... this won't make a difference though because the hack is out there and it's not going away. This whole trial is making them look dumb. The people who support them I really don't get though. Sony's trying to say that the console you bought isn't really yours and  (some) people are still rooting for them. Anyway, the way they're choosing to tackle this problem is horrible and it's just making them look bad.
#11 Posted by xyzygy (9871 posts) -

This won't ruin any sort of business because gaming has always come with people who mess with the system. As far back as floppy discs, we've been copying files so we can get the game/program/content for free. It's just part of human nature. Sony can't change that.

#12 Edited by clapperdude (192 posts) -

I feel like this is just drawing more attention to it. Like I don't even own a ps3 and I'm commenting on a subject about hacking one. I'd imagine the number of owners gaining interest in hacking is much larger then the number of owers becoming afraid to do the hackins anymore.

#13 Posted by kingzetta (4307 posts) -
@Terry_Bogard said:
" @kingzetta: I kind of understand their thinking.. kind of. They don't want the PS3 turning into the PSP, so they're gonna try and make an example out of Geohot... this won't make a difference though because the hack is out there and it's not going away. This whole trial is making them look dumb. The people who support them I really don't get though. Sony's trying to say that the console you bought isn't really yours and  (some) people are still rooting for them. Anyway, the way they're choosing to tackle this problem is horrible and it's just making them look bad. "
This may be a bit over dramatic or an exaggeration, but it's like buying a gun and then robing the gun store with that gun.
It's like "I payed you for the PS3, but now I'm going to steal games." like I said this is probably a bit of an exaggeration, but it's probably what Sony feels like.
#14 Edited by AhmadMetallic (18955 posts) -
@Pinworm45 said:

" @kingzetta said:

" @Terry_Bogard said:

" Yeah, Sony's taken this too far. Anyone who supports their behavior is retarded.. seriously.   "
Well would you like it, someone made a thing could collapse your business? "
http://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSE:SNE "
i have no idea what im looking at. just business words, numbers and a graph 
#15 Posted by imsh_pl (3295 posts) -
@Laketown said:
" @Cameron said:
" I imagine this will just be a number that Sony can throw around in court. They can cite how many unique IPs visited his site and then claim (probably misleadingly) that this resulted in X amount of PS3's being compromised. "
yeah this sounds likely "

 @the_OFFICIAL_jAPanese_teaBAG said:
" @kingzetta said:
" @Terry_Bogard said:
" Yeah, Sony's taken this too far. Anyone who supports their behavior is retarded.. seriously.   "
Well would you like it, someone made a thing could collapse your business? "
totally agree with you.  i personally dont think its right to download something for free like music and games.  but i guess im a hypocrite cause i have a shitload of music i downloaded for free "
Ditto.
#16 Posted by GDGD (19 posts) -
@imsh_pl said:
" @Laketown said:
" @Cameron said:
" I imagine this will just be a number that Sony can throw around in court. They can cite how many unique IPs visited his site and then claim (probably misleadingly) that this resulted in X amount of PS3's being compromised. "
yeah this sounds likely "

 @the_OFFICIAL_jAPanese_teaBAG said:
" @kingzetta said:
" @Terry_Bogard said:
" Yeah, Sony's taken this too far. Anyone who supports their behavior is retarded.. seriously.   "
Well would you like it, someone made a thing could collapse your business? "
totally agree with you.  i personally dont think its right to download something for free like music and games.  but i guess im a hypocrite cause i have a shitload of music i downloaded for free "
Ditto. "
Buying used games is just as bad as pirating games. 
#17 Posted by buft (3300 posts) -
@kingzetta said:
" @Terry_Bogard said:
" Yeah, Sony's taken this too far. Anyone who supports their behavior is retarded.. seriously.   "
Well would you like it, someone made a thing could collapse your business? "
when Geohot mentioned he wanted to buy a windows 7 phone, microsoft sent him one and it had a note that pretty much said "do what you want with me". 
there are other ways to respond to this kind of stuff
#18 Posted by ninjakiller (3405 posts) -
@kingzetta said:
" @Terry_Bogard said:
" Yeah, Sony's taken this too far. Anyone who supports their behavior is retarded.. seriously.   "
Well would you like it, someone made a thing could collapse your business? "
Yeah, because using the jailbreak and having to install custom patches after every Sony update all the while staying offline is something the average user will put up with in order to run pirated software.    /sarcasm off 
 
 
If Sony actually cared about something cutting into their profits they'd go after account sharing to steal downloadable games.
#19 Posted by Cubic (171 posts) -
@kingzetta said:
" @Terry_Bogard said:
" Yeah, Sony's taken this too far. Anyone who supports their behavior is retarded.. seriously.   "
Well would you like it, someone made a thing could collapse your business? "
If a person can collapse your business by exercising their basic property rights, the problem isn't with the person, it's with the business. Not to mention, Sony executives are hardly starving on the street because of this. 
 
Honestly I think the horrible thing is that the American legal system is so tilted in favour of the rich and powerful that Sony can do this kind of thing. Sony is just another amoral faceless corporation, I find it difficult to really feel surprised or betrayed by their actions.
#20 Posted by MikkaQ (10264 posts) -
@Terry_Bogard said:
" Yeah, Sony's taken this too far. Anyone who supports their behavior is retarded.. seriously.   "
I guess I'm retarded for thinking a company should protect it's assets? 
 
Sony's not a charity, they have money to make. And when they just broke even on the PS3... to have it hacked at a time like this would suck if I worked for them. 
 
I'm all for hacking, but downloading GeoHot's hacks and running them doesn't make you a hacker, it makes you someone a punk. If people want to hack the PS3 so damn much, crack it yourselves. But spreading it is pretty irresponsible. I don't think GeoHot should be charged with anything, but he definitely needs a legal slap on the wrist. This is probably a good enough scare anyway. 
#21 Posted by august (3825 posts) -
@XII_Sniper said:
" @Terry_Bogard said:
" Yeah, Sony's taken this too far. Anyone who supports their behavior is retarded.. seriously.   "
I guess I'm retarded for thinking a company should protect it's assets?  Sony's not a charity, they have money to make. And when they just broke even on the PS3... to have it hacked at a time like this would suck if I worked for them.  I'm all for hacking, but downloading GeoHot's hacks and running them doesn't make you a hacker, it makes you someone a punk. If people want to hack the PS3 so damn much, crack it yourselves. But spreading it is pretty irresponsible. I don't think GeoHot should be charged with anything, but he definitely needs a legal slap on the wrist. This is probably a good enough scare anyway.  "
Suing a private individual for millions of dollars is a slap on the wrist?
#22 Posted by Hailinel (23698 posts) -
@august said:
" @XII_Sniper said:
" @Terry_Bogard said:
" Yeah, Sony's taken this too far. Anyone who supports their behavior is retarded.. seriously.   "
I guess I'm retarded for thinking a company should protect it's assets?  Sony's not a charity, they have money to make. And when they just broke even on the PS3... to have it hacked at a time like this would suck if I worked for them.  I'm all for hacking, but downloading GeoHot's hacks and running them doesn't make you a hacker, it makes you someone a punk. If people want to hack the PS3 so damn much, crack it yourselves. But spreading it is pretty irresponsible. I don't think GeoHot should be charged with anything, but he definitely needs a legal slap on the wrist. This is probably a good enough scare anyway.  "
Suing a private individual for millions of dollars is a slap on the wrist? "
Well, if the individual in question is worth hojillions of dollars, then sure.
#23 Posted by august (3825 posts) -
@Hailinel said:
" @august said:
" @XII_Sniper said:
" @Terry_Bogard said:
" Yeah, Sony's taken this too far. Anyone who supports their behavior is retarded.. seriously.   "
I guess I'm retarded for thinking a company should protect it's assets?  Sony's not a charity, they have money to make. And when they just broke even on the PS3... to have it hacked at a time like this would suck if I worked for them.  I'm all for hacking, but downloading GeoHot's hacks and running them doesn't make you a hacker, it makes you someone a punk. If people want to hack the PS3 so damn much, crack it yourselves. But spreading it is pretty irresponsible. I don't think GeoHot should be charged with anything, but he definitely needs a legal slap on the wrist. This is probably a good enough scare anyway.  "
Suing a private individual for millions of dollars is a slap on the wrist? "
Well, if the individual in question is worth hojillions of dollars, then sure. "
Is he?
#24 Posted by Hailinel (23698 posts) -
@august said:
" @Hailinel said:
" @august said:
" @XII_Sniper said:
" @Terry_Bogard said:
" Yeah, Sony's taken this too far. Anyone who supports their behavior is retarded.. seriously.   "
I guess I'm retarded for thinking a company should protect it's assets?  Sony's not a charity, they have money to make. And when they just broke even on the PS3... to have it hacked at a time like this would suck if I worked for them.  I'm all for hacking, but downloading GeoHot's hacks and running them doesn't make you a hacker, it makes you someone a punk. If people want to hack the PS3 so damn much, crack it yourselves. But spreading it is pretty irresponsible. I don't think GeoHot should be charged with anything, but he definitely needs a legal slap on the wrist. This is probably a good enough scare anyway.  "
Suing a private individual for millions of dollars is a slap on the wrist? "
Well, if the individual in question is worth hojillions of dollars, then sure. "
Is he? "
No, I'm just sayin'.
#25 Posted by BabyChooChoo (4252 posts) -
@buft said:
" @kingzetta said:
" @Terry_Bogard said:
" Yeah, Sony's taken this too far. Anyone who supports their behavior is retarded.. seriously.   "
Well would you like it, someone made a thing could collapse your business? "
when Geohot mentioned he wanted to buy a windows 7 phone, microsoft sent him one and it had a note that pretty much said "do what you want with me". there are other ways to respond to this kind of stuff "
Microsoft did this just to spite Sony and Apple (this is the same guy who hacked the iPhone right?). It's all PR bullshit. If it was just some random hacker, Microsoft wouldn't give a damn about this guy.
 
And I'm all for homebrew and stuff like that, but we all know 1000x more pirates are going to abuse this to all hell. At a certain point, I think you just have say screw homebrew if it means you stop an ungodly number of people from getting your shit for free.
#26 Posted by FesteringNeon (2158 posts) -

Muhahahha you're all criminals! 
Sony will throw the shithammer down on ALLL OFFF YOOOUUU.

#27 Posted by devilzrule27 (1239 posts) -

hackers suck, sony's legal department sucks, everyone sucks. I'm going back to playing games.

#28 Posted by Quacktastic (1066 posts) -

You guys being all, "GRR SONY!" should really stop being upset that a major company is being cut-throat and more upset that a judge approved something so potentially ridiculous.  The news here is that they actually got the OK, not that they asked for it.

#29 Posted by buft (3300 posts) -
@PrimeSynergy said:
" @buft said:
" @kingzetta said:
" @Terry_Bogard said:
" Yeah, Sony's taken this too far. Anyone who supports their behavior is retarded.. seriously.   "
Well would you like it, someone made a thing could collapse your business? "
when Geohot mentioned he wanted to buy a windows 7 phone, microsoft sent him one and it had a note that pretty much said "do what you want with me". there are other ways to respond to this kind of stuff "
Microsoft did this just to spite Sony and Apple (this is the same guy who hacked the iPhone right?). It's all PR bullshit. If it was just some random hacker, Microsoft wouldn't give a damn about this guy.  And I'm all for homebrew and stuff like that, but we all know 1000x more pirates are going to abuse this to all hell. At a certain point, I think you just have say screw homebrew if it means you stop an ungodly number of people from getting your shit for free. "
i know and really what homebrew is worth all the hassle?
#30 Posted by Skytylz (4025 posts) -

If you buy the damn thing, then you should be able to do what you want with it except use it to steal other things.

#31 Posted by RsistncE (4496 posts) -
@kingzetta: No it's more like, "buying a gun, modifying it so that it can used "pirated" shells, and then usin...", oh, wait, never mind this analogy actually doesn't work. Sony can suck a dick. I bought it, I own it, I can do what I want with it. They want to cancel my online? I'm fine with that. But take me to court? Go fuck yourselves Sony. 
 
@GDGD: No use games and piracy are two entirely different concepts. How "bad" one or the other is for the "industry" remains to be seen. 
 
@XII_Sniper said:
" @Terry_Bogard said:
" Yeah, Sony's taken this too far. Anyone who supports their behavior is retarded.. seriously.   "
I guess I'm retarded for thinking a company should protect it's assets?  Sony's not a charity, they have money to make. And when they just broke even on the PS3... to have it hacked at a time like this would suck if I worked for them.  I'm all for hacking, but downloading GeoHot's hacks and running them doesn't make you a hacker, it makes you someone a punk. If people want to hack the PS3 so damn much, crack it yourselves. But spreading it is pretty irresponsible. I don't think GeoHot should be charged with anything, but he definitely needs a legal slap on the wrist. This is probably a good enough scare anyway.  "
Yeah, pretty much. Sony may not be a charity but I'll be fucked seven ways from Sunday before I agree with some shit munching corporation that thinks it can take away my basic legal rights. If we went with what you said, do you realize what the implications are for the ENTIRE modding scene? And I'm not talking about just electronics. Cars are another big category. Do you realize how stupid it is to defend Sony suing someone over hacking their OWN property. Again, Sony can go fuck itself.
#32 Posted by ch13696 (4582 posts) -
@imsh_pl said: 
 @the_OFFICIAL_jAPanese_teaBAG said:
" @kingzetta said:
" @Terry_Bogard said:
" Yeah, Sony's taken this too far. Anyone who supports their behavior is retarded.. seriously.   "
Well would you like it, someone made a thing could collapse your business? "
totally agree with you.  i personally dont think its right to download something for free like music and games.  but i guess im a hypocrite cause i have a shitload of music i downloaded for free "
Ditto. "
Once again, Geohot has nothing to do with piracy.
#33 Posted by ch13696 (4582 posts) -
@Quacktastic said:
" You guys being all, "GRR SONY!" should really stop being upset that a major company is being cut-throat and more upset that a judge approved something so potentially ridiculous.  The news here is that they actually got the OK, not that they asked for it. "
It makes sense. We should be upset at the legal system instead. However, Sony would have to ask for the subpoena before the judge would grant it. So, shouldn't we be upset at both the legal system and Sony?
#34 Posted by louiedog (2333 posts) -
@Skytylz said:
" If you buy the damn thing, then you should be able to do what you want with it except use it to steal other things. "
I agree.
 
This exploit allows you to run any software that you want on your PS3. That may include pirated software, but that doesn't make the exploit morally wrong, it makes the person who pirates the software immoral. My PC can run any software that's written for it, whether I paid for the software or not. I'm not a bad person for owning the PC. It's only bad to pirate and use the software without paying for it. Pirating PS3 games is certainly wrong, but using your hardware to run better media software, or homebrew games, or whatever is not.
 
I've used torrents to get Linux distros and virtual DVD drive software to put it on a USB drive for installation. Both of those tools are often used by pirates, but I used them for completely legal and legitimate purposes. Confusing piracy for the tools that pirates use is a mistake.
#35 Posted by MikkaQ (10264 posts) -
@RsistncE said:
@XII_Sniper said:
" @Terry_Bogard said:
" Yeah, Sony's taken this too far. Anyone who supports their behavior is retarded.. seriously.   "
I guess I'm retarded for thinking a company should protect it's assets?  Sony's not a charity, they have money to make. And when they just broke even on the PS3... to have it hacked at a time like this would suck if I worked for them.  I'm all for hacking, but downloading GeoHot's hacks and running them doesn't make you a hacker, it makes you someone a punk. If people want to hack the PS3 so damn much, crack it yourselves. But spreading it is pretty irresponsible. I don't think GeoHot should be charged with anything, but he definitely needs a legal slap on the wrist. This is probably a good enough scare anyway.  "
Yeah, pretty much. Sony may not be a charity but I'll be fucked seven ways from Sunday before I agree with some shit munching corporation that thinks it can take away my basic legal rights. If we went with what you said, do you realize what the implications are for the ENTIRE modding scene? And I'm not talking about just electronics. Cars are another big category. Do you realize how stupid it is to defend Sony suing someone over hacking their OWN property. Again, Sony can go fuck itself. "
Distributing a code THEY own is not within your legal rights. The box is yours, but they're legally entitled to the code. Just like you don't own the source code of the game discs you buy.  That's why piracy is at all illegal.  
 
You can crack the box all you want, you can hack the machine to pieces. But when you crack the damn signing code to the box and then spread it around so people can just steal games willy-nilly, yeah that's not exactly legal.   @august said:
" @XII_Sniper said:
" @Terry_Bogard said:
" Yeah, Sony's taken this too far. Anyone who supports their behavior is retarded.. seriously.   "
I guess I'm retarded for thinking a company should protect it's assets?  Sony's not a charity, they have money to make. And when they just broke even on the PS3... to have it hacked at a time like this would suck if I worked for them.  I'm all for hacking, but downloading GeoHot's hacks and running them doesn't make you a hacker, it makes you someone a punk. If people want to hack the PS3 so damn much, crack it yourselves. But spreading it is pretty irresponsible. I don't think GeoHot should be charged with anything, but he definitely needs a legal slap on the wrist. This is probably a good enough scare anyway.  "
Suing a private individual for millions of dollars is a slap on the wrist? "
I said he shouldn't be made to pay in full, I think Sony's probably got him to wet his pants enough, that's enough of a slap on the wrist. 
 
Also.. I mean if you can't afford to pay, don't do the crime. He could have hacked the PS3 and kept it to himself. He shouldn't have spread it around. I think it's wrong for Sony to pursue this so aggressively, but at the same time, this was a shitty time for them to have the doors blown open on the PS3. I can understand why they're doing what they're doing. It's not to get back at GeoHot, it's to discourage others from doing that kind of shit. 
#36 Posted by RsistncE (4496 posts) -
@XII_Sniper: Reverse engineering (which is exactly what he did) is not against the law. He didn't steal Sony's code in other words. Additionally he didn't sell it either, in fact he showed how people could discover it on their own. Again, reverse engineering, something that has been the right of most people on this planet for a long time. Either way, there's legal counsel is that siding against Sony on this one. On the other hand what Sony did by removing OtherOS (which is why hotz and overflow started to hack the PS3 in the first place) also has Sony now in deep because it's illegal to remove a feature from hardware that was advertised with that feature and sold as such.
#37 Edited by MikkaQ (10264 posts) -
@RsistncE said:

" @XII_Sniper: Reverse engineering (which is exactly what he did) is not against the law. He didn't steal Sony's code in other words. Additionally he didn't sell it either, in fact he showed how people could discover it on their own. Again, reverse engineering, something that has been the right of most people on this planet for a long time. Either way, there's legal counsel is that siding against Sony on this one. On the other hand what Sony did by removing OtherOS (which is why hotz and overflow started to hack the PS3 in the first place) also has Sony now in deep because it's illegal to remove a feature from hardware that was advertised with that feature and sold as such. "

Reverse engineering software isn't legal. Hardware yeah, software no. 
Also the other OS option was never part of their advertising for the PS3. And the EULA for the PSN gives them the legal right to take away whatever features they want. It's not a hardware feature, it was a software feature.  Also that was a poor excuse for GeoHot to hack it, because no one used the other OS option. The most you could do was run a SNES emulator on it.  
 
Like I'm not saying what Sony is doing is cool, it'S way aggressive, they are legal bullies. They bullied Lik Sang out of business. But in this case, they're protecting some of their most important assets. Imagine spending years making hardware, and you finally cut even, and some kid makes piracy as easy as using a torrent. I wouldn't just sit there and take it from the hackers, that's for sure. 
#38 Posted by Bones8677 (3208 posts) -
@GDGD said:
" @imsh_pl said:
" @Laketown said:
" @Cameron said:
" I imagine this will just be a number that Sony can throw around in court. They can cite how many unique IPs visited his site and then claim (probably misleadingly) that this resulted in X amount of PS3's being compromised. "
yeah this sounds likely "

 @the_OFFICIAL_jAPanese_teaBAG said:
" @kingzetta said:
" @Terry_Bogard said:
" Yeah, Sony's taken this too far. Anyone who supports their behavior is retarded.. seriously.   "
Well would you like it, someone made a thing could collapse your business? "
totally agree with you.  i personally dont think its right to download something for free like music and games.  but i guess im a hypocrite cause i have a shitload of music i downloaded for free "
Ditto. "
Buying used games is just as bad as pirating games.  "
No it isn't.
#39 Posted by Quacktastic (1066 posts) -
@ch13696 said:
" @Quacktastic said:
" You guys being all, "GRR SONY!" should really stop being upset that a major company is being cut-throat and more upset that a judge approved something so potentially ridiculous.  The news here is that they actually got the OK, not that they asked for it. "
It makes sense. We should be upset at the legal system instead. However, Sony would have to ask for the subpoena before the judge would grant it. So, shouldn't we be upset at both the legal system and Sony? "
Sure.  Upset wasn't the right word, I guess.  Surprised maybe.
#40 Posted by animateria (3252 posts) -
@GDGD said:
" @imsh_pl said:
" @Laketown said:
" @Cameron said:
" I imagine this will just be a number that Sony can throw around in court. They can cite how many unique IPs visited his site and then claim (probably misleadingly) that this resulted in X amount of PS3's being compromised. "
yeah this sounds likely "

 @the_OFFICIAL_jAPanese_teaBAG said:
" @kingzetta said:
" @Terry_Bogard said:
" Yeah, Sony's taken this too far. Anyone who supports their behavior is retarded.. seriously.   "
Well would you like it, someone made a thing could collapse your business? "
totally agree with you.  i personally dont think its right to download something for free like music and games.  but i guess im a hypocrite cause i have a shitload of music i downloaded for free "
Ditto. "
Buying used games is just as bad as pirating games.  "
I have to disagree there... While used games themselves don't give publishers any benefit, the trade-in bonus for new games/pre-order games increases the purchase of new games.  
#41 Posted by Skald (4366 posts) -
@XII_Sniper said:
" @Terry_Bogard said:
" Yeah, Sony's taken this too far. Anyone who supports their behavior is retarded.. seriously.   "
I guess I'm retarded for thinking a company should protect it's assets?  Sony's not a charity, they have money to make. And when they just broke even on the PS3... to have it hacked at a time like this would suck if I worked for them.  I'm all for hacking, but downloading GeoHot's hacks and running them doesn't make you a hacker, it makes you someone a punk. If people want to hack the PS3 so damn much, crack it yourselves. But spreading it is pretty irresponsible. I don't think GeoHot should be charged with anything, but he definitely needs a legal slap on the wrist. This is probably a good enough scare anyway.  "
Makes sense to me. Cracking one PS3 isn't too big a deal, cracking thousands (indirectly, of course) is a whole separate issue.
#42 Posted by Sogeman (862 posts) -

Since they are getting taken up the ass over here in Europe right now, they need to fight a battle they can win.

#43 Posted by JasonR86 (9587 posts) -

Well, if I understand IP addresses correctly, they can figure out where you live based off of that address.  Plus, they can monitor the activity of that address.  So, if they see a person who visits Geohots eventually do illegal activity online then they can contact the appropriate authorities (I assume those local to the hacker in question) to take action against the hacker.  
 
I can understand where Sony is coming from.  They made the PS3 and PSP fairly open systems and people took advantage of it by hacking the hell out of them, using illegal copies of games on them, and so on.  Hackers cause Sony to lose money, lose publisher and developer support, and ultimately negatively affects their reputation as a business.
 
But, what they are doing seems better suited to the authorities not to a business.  I don't mind them using all of their pull to authorities to go after hackers if they break the law (specifically, if they hack their systems so they can play illegally copied games on their systems).  What I have a bigger problem with is these renegade, pseudo-justice they are professing.  It seems inappropriate.

#44 Posted by RsistncE (4496 posts) -
@XII_Sniper: No, reverse engineering of software has only been ruled against by a few cases in the US where the judges found that the EULA overrode copyright law (which is a load of shit to begin with). In most other areas of the world it is legal. 
 
Yeah, Sony is claiming to have the ability to remove features because of the EULA (they've also used some other pathetic excuses, such as, "We didn't know people wanted to use it for the life of the console." EYEROLL) but the fact of the matter is that they're being sued for having possibly violated the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act...the very same act Geohotz has possibly violated and is being for sued for by Sony. 
 
Yeah no one used OtherOS...except for the thousands who used it to run Linux. Go ahead online and look. 
 
Yeah that would suck if I spent years making the hardware and then it got hacked...only I'd make sure I'd put together a decent fucking security system to prevent that from happening. Go ahead and look at what the hackers found: one of the most pathetic forms of security both hardware wise and on the network side through PSN. 
 
Your claims of piracy are massively overblown. Piracy on the PC is probably the highest out of all consoles yet it's still incredibly profitable. The 360 and Wii have also been hacked and encounter a fair amount of piracy...but nothing that has stopped them from raking in billions in profits each year. Additionally you make it sound like you punch a key in and bam you can burn games to blu rays and play them. It is NOT that easy and the vast majority of people won't even bother trying to figure it out.
#45 Posted by Pinworm45 (4088 posts) -
@Ahmad_Metallic said:
" @Pinworm45 said:

" @kingzetta said:

" @Terry_Bogard said:

" Yeah, Sony's taken this too far. Anyone who supports their behavior is retarded.. seriously.   "
Well would you like it, someone made a thing could collapse your business? "
http://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSE:SNE "
i have no idea what im looking at. just business words, numbers and a graph  "
You're looking at fairly conclusive proof that this "thing" has not, in fact, caused anything close to the collapse of sony's business.
#46 Posted by yakov456 (1897 posts) -

I just want to play games. Don't give a shit who hacks the ps3, don't care what Sony does to the hackers.

#47 Posted by ch13696 (4582 posts) -
@Quacktastic said:
" @ch13696 said:
" @Quacktastic said:
" You guys being all, "GRR SONY!" should really stop being upset that a major company is being cut-throat and more upset that a judge approved something so potentially ridiculous.  The news here is that they actually got the OK, not that they asked for it. "
It makes sense. We should be upset at the legal system instead. However, Sony would have to ask for the subpoena before the judge would grant it. So, shouldn't we be upset at both the legal system and Sony? "
Sure.  Upset wasn't the right word, I guess.  Surprised maybe. "
I'm surprised at Sony, but not with the legal system. Hell, look at how many times Lindsay Lohan is getting away with crap.
#48 Posted by ch13696 (4582 posts) -
@RsistncE said:
" @XII_Sniper: No, reverse engineering of software has only been ruled against by a few cases in the US where the judges found that the EULA overrode copyright law (which is a load of shit to begin with). In most other areas of the world it is legal. 
 
Yeah, Sony is claiming to have the ability to remove features because of the EULA (they've also used some other pathetic excuses, such as, "We didn't know people wanted to use it for the life of the console." EYEROLL) but the fact of the matter is that they're being sued for having possibly violated the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act...the very same act Geohotz has possibly violated and is being for sued for by Sony.  Yeah no one used OtherOS...except for the thousands who used it to run Linux. Go ahead online and look.  Yeah that would suck if I spent years making the hardware and then it got hacked...only I'd make sure I'd put together a decent fucking security system to prevent that from happening. Go ahead and look at what the hackers found: one of the most pathetic forms of security both hardware wise and on the network side through PSN.  Your claims of piracy are massively overblown. Piracy on the PC is probably the highest out of all consoles yet it's still incredibly profitable. The 360 and Wii have also been hacked and encounter a fair amount of piracy...but nothing that has stopped them from raking in billions in profits each year. Additionally you make it sound like you punch a key in and bam you can burn games to blu rays and play them. It is NOT that easy and the vast majority of people won't even bother trying to figure it out. "
For some reason, everything you post I just agree with. Well, except for wanting to secure my equipment. I would only want to secure it if I had an online infrastructure like PSN. As long as the hackers don't do anything on PSN, then they can do whatever they want with the console. I mean I've seen people get jealous over other people making their system better through hacks and stuff, but to get to the point where it turns into a lawsuit is just childish. Who cares, someone hacked your console. Just make sure they don't ruin PSN. How hard is that?
#49 Posted by RsistncE (4496 posts) -
@ch13696: "And ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." 
 
Sony is going to learn this the hard way.
#50 Posted by Punk1984 (549 posts) -
@ch13696: One of the first programs engineered after the hack was an 'app' that unlocked all trophies for a game. Now Trophies aren't that big a deal but it does show that hackers don't care if they mess up PSN

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