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    StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty

    Game » consists of 10 releases. Released Jul 27, 2010

    The first chapter in the StarCraft II trilogy focuses on the struggles of the Terran race, as seen through the eyes of Commander Jim Raynor, leader of the rebel group Raynor's Raiders.

    How to effectively apply theory to MP?

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    Fallen189

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    #1  Edited By Fallen189

    So hello. 
     
    I've started playing, and naturally, I'm shit. A guy threw a trillion void rays at me, and then another guy just mass marined me, and so on, all the idiot tactics that I should KNOW how to counter, but I just can't. I know a lot of people say "Oh go and watch a replay", but is there another way of trying to apply the things you know into an online game? I try to keep up with everything at once, but it's just too much to handle. I've tried Protoss, and it's the most high maintenance, and Terran felt pretty good, so I guess I'll stick with them for now. The problem is, I don't know when to stop making SCVs, or how many marines/marauders to make before I transition. I've looked on the teamliquid website, and I don't really understand how the build orders work. I always supply block myself, or get pushed early, then lose to like 5 marauders. 
     
    Help me out! How do I effectively use theory online when everyone seems to be demonicly possessed by Koreans?

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    RelentlessKnight

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    #2  Edited By RelentlessKnight

    I'd suggest the challenge mode, sure replays help alot but this mode will help with the counters to your problems

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    dipstick

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    #3  Edited By dipstick

    Get a practice partner and have them constantly do what you're having trouble with. Like "Hey Dave, mass reaper me for the next 5 games." You'll eventually learn how to deal with it.

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    shirogane

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    #4  Edited By shirogane

    Let's see, terran specifically... 
     
    Barracks sometime before 12 supply, depending on build. Keep building SCVs when you have enough money for one and are not saving up for something like a depot or barracks. Then start building marines, while still building scvs. Cut down on the scvs once you've gotten to the point where you're taking in way more cash than you need for the units you're building.
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    JokerSmilez

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    #5  Edited By JokerSmilez
    @Fallen189:  
    Watching replays is actually a good way to learn build orders. Watch good players in the early game and watch how they time their first units, how often they build SCVs, how they balance their economy and their army, etc. 
     
    Once you have an idea of what you should be doing, it's all about practice. Learning how and what to adjust based on what your opponent throws at you, learning how to do everything faster (the common phrase "First get good, then get fast" is very applicable for Starcraft), learning how to micro, etc. 
     
    If you get good with just reaper micro, you can really wreck someone's day. The other night I was at a friends house and he was in the middle of a game when I got there so I watched him finish the match. It was a 2v2 match and he killed almost all of a Protoss players probes and then fought off about 10 marines with just 2 reapers.  
     
    Unfortunately, there aren't really any short cuts or general things that will make you tons better. The only way to learn to apply "theory" in real-life MP games is to just practice.
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    Chronologist

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    #6  Edited By Chronologist
    @Fallen189 said:

     The problem is, I don't know when to stop making SCVs, or how many marines/marauders to make before I transition. I've looked on the teamliquid website, and I don't really understand how the build orders work. 

    Ok, here's the thing: Never stop making SCV's (as a general idea). If you continue to do that, and throw down one or two barracks in the beginning, it should in the end come naturally as you wil suddenly have more minerals than you're able to use even while producing marine-marauder and SCV's, and then put down a factory, starport, expand, and so on... 
     
    Also watch this  http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/3732340/ and some other of Day 9's stuff that seems useful to you. He gives a really different perspective on how the game works than team liquid does.
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    KaosAngel

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    #7  Edited By KaosAngel

    In Brood War I just learned by getting my ass beat for a few weeks, and then just clicking. 
     
    No real way to apply it, just win and get your body to work out the APMs.

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    loldetaerleo

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    #8  Edited By loldetaerleo
    @Fallen189: 
    Learning build orders other than for openers is a really bad way to learn.
     Following builds blindy will get you nowhere fast, you need to scoat more and react accordingly.
     
     

    @JokerSmilez:

      
    10 Marines always beat 2 reapers, they outrange them no way to kite them.
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    wunder_

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    #9  Edited By wunder_
    @Fallen189:  add me and I'll help you out :3 Wunder.528
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    Fallen189

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    #10  Edited By Fallen189
    @Wunder_ said:
    " @Fallen189:  add me and I'll help you out :3 Wunder.528 "
    Neat! 
     
    I'm at Sombre#203 I believe!
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    JokerSmilez

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    #11  Edited By JokerSmilez
    @loldetaerleo: I could have sworn it was marines he kited. I'll have to check out his replay and double check. I don't doubt that you're right, but he micro'ed the shit out of those 2 players, whatever units it was. My friends and I have been playing SC1 for years but mostly UMS maps (like Storm The Fort) so while our normal MP isn't great, our micro skills are pretty good.
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    Jeffsekai

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    #12  Edited By Jeffsekai
    @Fallen189: By playing and trying what you have learned.
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    StaticFalconar

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    #13  Edited By StaticFalconar
    @Fallen189:
     
    Scout the Eff out. if you get "Taken" by surprise by any type of "idiot tactics" you obisviously didn't scout it out to not have that be a surprize to you. Sometimes it could be unit composition, but other times if the opponent expanded early and you didn't, it doesn't matter you have the perfect counter to whatever, the sheer numbers will just overwhelm you assuming you aren't a master at microing.  
     
    But in general, here's a a guide.  
     
    Always build workers: I don't mean spam them in que, but just make one at a time. When you have past a certain amount of workers mining for you, the income will be faster than what you can spend 50 min for workers on one at a time. With the extra minerals, you build buildings, then an army.   
     
    Around the time you get enough money for buildings (and a little before depending the size of the map), send a worker out to see what your opponent is doing. If you see them have a lot less workers than you they are most likely going for a rush of some kind. See them going for gass already, they are teching up. Also check thier natural expansions since some players expand that early, hoping the idiot tactic will take you by surprize.  
     
    When you start to get mineral saturated, expand and just dump a third or so of your saturated workers on to the new base. ALways keep making workers, but never que them up since the extra money should be used to build buildings and your army.  This also applies to making your army as well, never que them up that much. if you find yourself having more minerals that you can spend without queing them up, then make more buildings. Overall, you will pump out an army faster with more buildings even though you spend more money but its worth it to have a bigger army faster, so you can attack earlier, while your opponent spent all his money queing shit up.  
     
    As far as being supply blocked is concerned, just keep an eye on that number and build supply depots when you start to get near the supply block number. This should be done even eariler if you can build units that take up a lot of supply. Remember, keep scouting, by sending a very fast/cheap unit around the map to make sure you don't get "taken by surprize by the idiot tactic" when your two armies are at each others bases and you inevitability trade bases (since the time it takes to go back to defend your base takes too long), but you lost since your opponet has a secret building away somewhere so he didn't lose.  
     
     
    But that is all theory.  
     
     
    If you cannot keep track of a number on the corner not the get supply blocked, you will still get supply blocked. Multitasking keeping track of those numbers while doing other stuff is a skill, just like multitasking sending in a fake smaller army to bait your opponent while the real army comes in from behind to take a base is also a skill. Its called practice overall.  
     
     
     
    EDIT: Damn, I just realized I went overboard in typing a response. 
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    SuperfluousMoniker

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    I play Terran, and generally I'm pretty much always training a worker and building a supply depot. If you're producing from three barracks, you will be making troops about as fast as you can build the depots, so just chain build them so you never get supply blocked. You can basically never have too many workers because by the time you get enough to fully saturate your main (around 30) you should be thinking about expanding if you haven't already. It takes practice to get used to the rhythm of making troops, workers, and supply depots as soon as they complete while remembering to scout your opponent and tech up to counter whatever he's going to throw at you, but that's why the game is hard to master.

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    KaosAngel

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    #15  Edited By KaosAngel

    ...people are still posting theory.  It's not the way to help, you need a buddy to help with who is at a higher level.  You can read up everything in the world, but it mostly comes down to the hands and focus.   
     
    You could know EVERYTHING about SC, and be a fantastic commentator, but be one of the worst players online.  The real deal is that once you're on the battlefield, it comes down to physical skill and mental knowledge of not the theory but rather what you should be doing 2 mins from now. 
     
    The best way to apply theory is to just play.

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    Turambar

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    #16  Edited By Turambar
    @Fallen189 said:

    " So hello.  I've started playing, and naturally, I'm shit. A guy threw a trillion void rays at me, and then another guy just mass marined me, and so on, all the idiot tactics that I should KNOW how to counter, but I just can't. I know a lot of people say "Oh go and watch a replay", but is there another way of trying to apply the things you know into an online game? I try to keep up with everything at once, but it's just too much to handle. I've tried Protoss, and it's the most high maintenance, and Terran felt pretty good, so I guess I'll stick with them for now. The problem is, I don't know when to stop making SCVs, or how many marines/marauders to make before I transition. I've looked on the teamliquid website, and I don't really understand how the build orders work. I always supply block myself, or get pushed early, then lose to like 5 marauders.  Help me out! How do I effectively use theory online when everyone seems to be demonicly possessed by Koreans? "

    This isn't so much theory as some general ideas to abide by when learning to improve your play.
     
    Rule one: Have a plan.  By that, I don't mean something really complicated like a build order.  What I mean is have an idea of what you want to do in the mid game where most of the action goes down.  Do you want to go Tank/Marines?  MMM balls?  Mass vikings?  Give yourself a goal to work towards for the biggest part of the game.
     
    Rule two: Figure out what will get you to reach that plan.  And by that, I mean what to do in the early game.  This is where it takes pretty much a lot of practice to get it down perfectly.  What has been advised to me is to just go with the same mid game plan over and over again.  If possible, get a training partner so you only have to worry about one race match up as well.  You will undoubtedly lose a lot, but after awhile, you'll notice trends in exactly what you're losing to, and have a general idea of what your mid game plan, and the means you choose to achieve it, is vulnerable to.  You can then make adjustments on your own. 
     
    For me for example, I want my midgame plan to be templars with storm and chargelots in a PvT and PvZ match up.  To achieve that end, my early game revolves around using phoenixes for harrasement and making them invest in marines/hydras which will be vulnerable to my storm.  Now that I have that plan, I need to figure out how to refine this plan and win games with it.
     
    Edit: I guess I did end up talking about a piece of theory at the end there.  The idea behind that is to, by being aggressive, make your opponent react to in the way you want them to.  And if they don't, you can just kill them outright.  
     
    Oh, also, if you feel like keeping up with everything is too much, do this.  Focus on one aspect of the game in match ups until you get it right.  For example, you're supply blocking yourself.  So for the next game, regardless of what, always keep your eye on the supply counter.  Keep playing the rest of the game of course, but all your attention should be making sure your supply is never in the red.  Forget winning or losing, your goal is to get better at that one thing.  Once you have it down, move to another aspect of the game.  You might end up with a lot of goofy losses because your army was just being attack moved and not being microed at all or something like that, but don't let that bother you.  Take everything one step at a time and focus on your play, not the win/loss counter.
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    ekajarmstro

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    #17  Edited By ekajarmstro

    At least when it first came out (people might be better now) you could get into platinum just by making more stuff than the opponent with absolutely zero strategy. Always make SCVs, always make supply depos when you need to, and always make out of your barracks. If your money gets high, make more barracks.

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    wchigo

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    #18  Edited By wchigo
    @EkajArmstro said:
    " At least when it first came out (people might be better now) you could get into platinum just by making more stuff than the opponent with absolutely zero strategy. Always make SCVs, always make supply depos when you need to, and always make out of your barracks. If your money gets high, make more barracks. "
    I think that this is still pretty much the case for the most part.
     
    I mean, you won't win every game, but I'm pretty sure there are people who have gotten into Diamond just based off of 4 Gate or 3 Rax.
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    Cheapoz

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    #19  Edited By Cheapoz

    Never stop building SCVs. Never.

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    tunaburn

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    #20  Edited By tunaburn

    basically if you dont dedicate a ton of time to it you will not get very far. thats why i have pretty much quit. i had fun playing until i lost 6 in a row. now its angering the shit out of me. i hate losing over and over again.i try everything. i just lost last game against 6 carriers. i had tons of anti air. tons of  everything.  i was harassing him like crazy. i was doing all the shit everyone says to do but i just couldnt do it. carriers and chargelots and i got destroyed. 
     
    either play everyday or get used to losing constantly.

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    Spectreman

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    #21  Edited By Spectreman

    Play in the morning, before go to work. The players online are far easier.

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