Having just played BOTW on Switch before playing this game, the performance is for sure improved. It does get a bit chunky when using the ultrahand or when a bunch of stuff is happening at once, but in general the game seems to run much smoother outside of those situations. You can actually run through the grass in Hyrule Field or most forests without the FPS dropping to sub-20 now, which makes a big difference. Kakariko Village is still a bit poor but not nearly as bad as in BOTW where it basically never ran anywhere near 30 most of the time you were there. The texture quality can be rough, but the fact it looks as good as it does on what is basically a console slightly more powerful than the Wii U is impressive enough.

Oh, and the one thing I did notice is that there's a dramatic difference in performance in docked versus handheld mode, much more so than other Switch games. When docked it runs quite smoothly. In handheld it's much more likely to drop to 20 FPS.

Definitely. During the tutorial island I was in the camp of "This seems like BOTW with a few new additions" but then a couple hours later after making it to the mainland my opinion completely changed. There's a whole bunch of new systems, locations, items, vehicle concepts, and other things you don't see or learn exist on the tutorial island (the largest of which one of the tutorial bots vaguely hints at but without context doesn't make sense until you find out for yourself later). The temples (at least the ones I've done so far) in particular drive home just how dramatically different this game is in terms of mechanics. My brain was still in BOTW mode when I played my first temple and I immediately got stuck for about 30 minutes. I had to stop thinking of this game in terms of only BOTW mechanics to make progress.

I think a valid comparison for this game is Saints Row 3 to Saints Row 4. If you do the first bit of Saints Row 4, it just seems like more Saints Row 3 but with a few changes, but after a couple hours it's a completely different game that just happens to have the same map. If you wanted, you could still drive around the map and use basic guns like in SR3, but why would you when you could jump over buildings, fly, and use superpowers in combat.

Pretty sure I just completed an entire Temple without using a single intended puzzle solution and so far as I'm concerned that's a hell of a feature.

Something I've noticed that the Blood Moon is way, way, way more frequent than in BOTW. Like every 3-4 days or so on a fixed schedule rather than at seemingly random intervals (remember that one BOTW shrine that you needed the Blood Moon for? It took over 2 weeks of in-game days for me to finally get one so I could do that shrine).

Gameplay spoilers relating to the Blood Moon and how it affects certain things: This is a massive change and kind of trivializes certain bits of the game. If you combine this with a certain shrine's location and the knowledge that stray weapons found in the world also seem to respawn with the Blood Moon, you can get a guaranteed feed of top tier weapons to use as bases for fusing pretty easily. This basically erases concerns about weapon degradation since every few days you can restock on good weapons that last a long time.

For all of the things I am enjoying it really did not take very long to be absolutely done with Koroks.

@justin258 said:

I do genuinely think it's a great game. Is it an incredible, transcendental game that's miles ahead of what any other video game on the market is doing? Well... no. Not really.

This is more Breath of the Wild. If BOTW was one of the greatest experiences in any video game you've ever touched, Tears of the Kingdom is more of that. If you dropped BOTW after five hours because of the vast expanses of nothing happening or the obnoxious weapon degradation or the poor framerate... well, that's all here, and there are even more vast expanses of nothing than ever before. I was on my way to climb around some stuff to get to the next story objective when it started raining in-game and I had to find a different way around because I would just slide off the side. You cannot batch-cook recipes, though the game does keep a recipe book now. If you have a problem with BOTW, chances are that issue is still here. Perhaps your complaint was alleviated a little bit, and Ascend frankly alleviates the climbing issues a lot, but I seriously doubt this will change your mind if you were disappointed in BOTW.

What swayed me to get this game was the new toolbox. Ultrahand and Fuse are kind of incredible to mess with. In practice I feel like I've made one too many log bridges to cross a gap, but also I've done some other really cool, neat things. For the past few hours I've been away from this game for reasons, but frankly I can't wait to get back to it.

As far as Fuse goes... well...

if you don't find stupid nonsense like this charming and hilarious, I don't think Fuse is going to do much for you.

@mach_go_go_go said:

Sooo... weapon degradation?

As someone who has been unable to go back to BOTW because of weapon degradation - it's still here, it's still obnoxious, and it's still by far the biggest issue with this game. I cannot overstate just how much weapon degradation drags BOTW and this game down for me, it's literally the mechanic that turns the game from "maybe one of my favorite experiences ever" to "merely great".

Fuse helps. In BOTW, I just memorized the combat dungeons that gave you the good swords and teleported back to those frequently. Here, I don't see myself doing that because I can just glue one of the plentiful rocks to one of the plentiful sticks and have something to destroy things with, at the very least. Also, durability for crafting good weapons to other good weapons seems better.

All in all, the situation's improved, but "weapon durability" is the reason I wasn't going to buy this game. But also, I like smashing junk together to make cooler junk, and this game has lots of that. Like, lots and lots and lots of that, and that has made me look past the issue so far.

@av_gamer said:

The performance on the Switch so far?

Meaning does the game run at a smooth 30fps most of the time or does it often dip below 30 frames like Breath of the Wild. I know many critics claim the game runs fine, but I'd like to hear the opinion of a duder playing the game fresh.

If BOTW's framerate bothered you, chances are good that it's going to bother you here as well. It's better, but the game still dips to low 20's whenever you turn on Ultrahand and populated areas seem problematic. I played BOTW on a Wii U and this game certainly runs better than that one, but I've never played a game that's simultaneously this technically impressive and also an excellent showcase for why the Switch maybe needs to be replaced.

Textures are extremely low quality, and noticeably so, in a lot of places. Water just sorta stops instead of lapping against shores. Clouds and fog are very obviously just 2D textures that spin with the camera (this is true of a lot of games, but most hide it better). The game is very "aliased", you see jagged edges all over the place, and houses and staircases that are more than five feet away just look bad. This game is absolutely capable of some incredible vistas and some great artwork and design, but at the same time I thought more than once that I should set it aside and wait for it to become playable on an emulator. I'm finding TOTK to be uglier than BOTW ever was. Maybe that's because it's been six years, but also, maybe that's because TOTK really should have been a launch game on a newer console.

"...transcendental game that's miles ahead of what any other video game on the market..."

I'm curious what you would consider transcendental? It seems you follow more with that notorious 6/10 review and those who thumbed it up. I've seen articles on how it's bad that a single game got so many 10/10 scores since people are buying it and finding an issue they have in particular that annoys them thus it can't be that good. Real loony logic in my opinion but people have their opinions. I just think on paper, if this game set out to make a better BOTW and did, and quickly took out the weird opinion that it's just dlc...(still not sure where this 100 hour long dlc people are all playing with story and new features is coming from, even witcher 3 dlc was more of an expansion pack and wasn't this involved in changes. Keeping the same area really just saved time cause would we want to wait 3 extra years just to get new snow, lava, sand etc regions we already have or more gameplay and story.)

I get that people expect 10/10 to mean mind-blowing, but it really doesn't. Crazy unique and never done before, genre defying, etc. can only happen so often and most of the time say something genre defining like dark souls was can get played out and copied. BOTW wasn't copied much, successfully. Genre defining stuff like the nemesis system which wasn't really done before...well look at where that went. It's not like something we have never seen before = good. More regularly a sequel can be more of the same but more refined and make a game so much better. Arkham asylum vs city. Mario galaxy 1 vs 2. People will just say dlc, but I think reusing assets leaves uptime to do the main point of gaming...making it a better game, gameplay wise. Also, I see online a lot of distrust in the reviews when reviewers had time to play for 100 hours vs the opening 5 or so some play and say it's overrated and go online to explain why they disliked the game. It's like reading the opening premise of a 5/5 star book with 100 chapters that thousands love and is in your genre and say eh ain't catching me after 5 chapters and saying must be nothing special.

That said as others agree, and that 6/10 review, no amount of a game done well will make you like it if you just don't like it. Jeff on stream being bummed about zelda TOTK, isn't a surprise he didn't like BOTW and was a big opponent on giving it any flowers for anything it did due to him not liking the rain when he climbed or breaking weapons etc. (I believe the rain thing was a system mechanic I got sudden rain trying to cheese a boss or cheese past a section so im not sure how people don't notice it's just a gate off, but it could be just random so who knows). I still think people like jeff G will bounce off of it before noticing alot of their initial issues are fixed in this sequel, but again we all have a bias to give certain genre's more time (this being a special sorta genre of zelda, not saying zelda itself since many love zelda games but hated BOTW). It's a long game and I think all the mystery and imaginative ideas are more for some and not others. That said It's not enough to say well I think not everyone in existence will enjoy this, so I can't give it a 10/10 or the fps is low, so it's not perfect, or I found a section not exactly fun etc. I'm sure reviewers see the whole as they did Elden Ring and said, overall it was just a great BOTW zelda like game and the minor hiccups weren't enough to smack a 6-8 or something that many who will be disappointed with the game, will likely prefer they gave it. Elden Ring had many who hated it with a passion and found a list of flaws, but every game has that, with many worst rated games having more. I guess what matters is if you learn all the stuff it has to offer and still think nope not for me, that's fine, but I think people can say that and still recognize a game is good even if they won’t play it past a bit.

What did you mean? I think the person genuinely is explaining the first impressions. Can't tell if they hate it or not though lol. Sometimes any criticism on a popular game can sound like you hate it when you're just picking it apart to have a discussion. Even a perfect game in some illogical perfect world where that could occur, if you got close to one, if ever possible, has someone looking at it with disdain for not including a feature or too many.

I think this might be the most Nintendo game ever. Like, this is a company that comes up with an underpowered potato clock of a console but also does it in such a way that it's charming and smart and has really great games and still sells a bajillionty units.

It's also a company that still hasn't figured out the internet.

In the same way, TotK has a lot of really smart and cool extensions of BotW. They made the most of what they had in terms of console power. The Fuse power is just fucking neat. And yet . . . they didn't tune weapon durability at all, even though tons of people complained about it. They did nothing to the god-awful menu system on top of it. You still can't remap the controls because reasons.

On the one hand, I kind of want them to stay weird and never change. On the other hand, I can't help but think what they'd be able to do if only they had about 5-10% more common sense.

I dunno.. I mean technically yes the weapon durability is still there and still kind of irritating but functionally I have like a pocket full of +20 or better monster parts and that means every single one of them is a weapon of that strength I can use immediately because I've never been to an area that wasn't littered with sticks/swords/spears/whatever.

It just isn't a mechanic I concern myself with anymore whereas in botw I would constantly look at monster camp and think ugh is the Opal or whatever I'm going to get from this worth breaking a couple weapons over?

@therealturk: The menu's kinda piss me off this time around. In BOTW those menu's were clearly designed for the Wii U. I still maintain that the Sheikah slate only exists because of the Gamepad. And I was very chapped when they removed Gamepad functionality on Wii U in favor of parity with the Switch since I intended to play on Wii U cause it was excellent in the HD remasters. Now its just a bit ridiculous that they implemented the same exact nonsense this time around. If there is one thing Nintendo seems bad at, its quality of life features. Ya, not being able to remap buttons just seems archaic at this point.

Edit: Don't even get me started on the cooking, again....

Finally got to sit down and put some time into it. I'm really hating anything to do with the building mechanic and so far it's incredibly disheartening how many shrines revolve around the mechanic. I'd rather ignore it's very existence.

Genuinely upset at a recent interview where they confirmed this is the format for the future of the franchise. I've been pretty much done with open world games 5 years ago and TotK isn't making me feel differently.

@creepingdeath0: Yeah if you actively dislike the building it’s bad news going forward. You CAN circumvent a lot of puzzles that require it with use of individual devices but it’s way more work sometimes.

@therealturk:

As someone who came to genuinely hate the weapon durability of BOTW and who dismissed this game originally simply because I didn't want to deal with that issue ever again... the weapon durability hasn't been much of an issue for me, at least yet. Originally, the issue was that I found a cool weapon I really wanted to keep using but I never actually used it because it would just break and that always felt bad. This time, it feels like most weapons are more durable, I've found/made several "extra durable" weapons that seem to last a while, and the best weapons are made from smashing two things together instead of finding something deep in a cave.

Does that resolve the issue? Not necessarily. It still sucks when a weapon breaks, but attaching a Construct Axe-thing to a sword or whatever takes only a few seconds and you probably have one available. What it really does is make things far more "expendable" in a way that they were probably going for in the first place. "Everything's a finite resource" has been the idea with both games, and I think this one is better balanced about it so far. Except armor, apparently, which is as infinitely durable as in most other video games.

The building mechanics are one of my favorite things about this game, so I'm thrilled that Ultrahand is so often utilized. If you don't like the building mechanics... I don't think you're going to like this game. I'd say that, like, 80% of the content I've come across thus far has been about building something. I'm sure you could engage with the game in some other ways and find some fun here and there without it, but from how I've played the game it seems like so much of it revolves around attaching things to other things to make some kind of structure or simple machine or whatever to accomplish your goal.

I just wish it wasn't all "temporary". You make something, you do what you needed to with it, and then it despawns when you get too far away. I understand this is to save resources for the Switch and to keep save files from becoming enormous, potentially among other things, but man... it would be great to build a vehicle, drive it around for a bit, lose track of it, and find it again fifty hours later or something.

Yeah - weapon durability is a no-go for me.

I really tried with BOTW, but that mechanic just kills it for me. Some weapons lasted 4-5 hits, which is fucking crazy.

Like - even the fans of these games tell you how to make weapons more durable, but no one actually defends the mechanic.

Listening to the Triple Click podcast right now…I have to reiterate I’ve been in this thread a lot, and he’ll, I played this game so damn much from Friday through Monday that my right arm hurts and the thought of a controller terrifies me, a bartender, greatly right now.

But there’s something about the way people express their hagiographies of Breath of the Wild, while describing THIS game…that weirdly makes me focus on all the things I still dislike about the reaction to these two Zelda games? And I do t think it’s fully genuine anymore, not in the way I was so sure everyone was just wrong about Breath of the Wild…

There’s just been something about the discourse surrounding Last of Us #2 and BotW #1 in an extremely flawed to begin with GQ list that has set me off because I just can’t fathom why there seems to be this idea that the only good video games are Zelda and Souls games and everything else is just pretend.

I mean, listening to the latest Insert Credit even Tim Rogers admitted that his 3 hour Last of Us review was making a sarcastic argument for its perpetual placement on lists like that…when I felt like he succinctly and in-depthedly described exactly what makes that game so incredible better than anyone had or would…

I know, I know, none of it actually matters at all and we all get to enjoy what we enjoy…and I’ve been loving Tears in a way I only ever felt like I was doing an archeological survey on Breath…I just don’t get it, this delineation. Like the 2022 Top 10 I never wrote, I could’ve made any choice between Elden Ring, Horizon, God of War, MLB the Show or Gran Turismo and the only thing weird about that list is that all but one are a Sony game. Otherwise they’re all great in their ways, and playing Elden Ring/Horizon side by side never felt particularly strained…

Whatever. Derailing the thread. I keep distracting myself from each temple after the wind temple! I just keep fixing sign posts and stumbling into wells! Woohoo!

So, I kept having life beer me away but yesterday and today I got to play a lot more and I think I finally found a flow. I was having issues with the enemies just absolutely murking me left and right, to the point I was getting really pissed off. T felt like the game was directing me to the northwest and but I wasn’t finding enough shrines to build up my hearts or stamina and the world seemed too hostile. While hyrule field was a scare ass place in BOTW due to all the guardians, I found that it’s the place full of combat tutorial shrines, and that really helped me get back into the flow of open exploration. I also started using the ascend ability a lot more, because I hadn’t realized it doesn’t really matter how thick the roof is, it’ll still let you swim through it.

It’s still weird, everywhere feels smaller than BOTW. I can’t put my finger on it, it just seems like I’m traveling everywhere faster. Everything is also just slightly different to be a touch unnerving. Like the isolated mesa being hard instead of a starting area, and the cave you wake up in BOTW being…changed.

I’m having a better time now. Unfortunately, I’m gonna be pulled away from it for the coming days again. Also I still need to play more Jedi Survivor. And Diablo 4 is almost here. Yikes, too many games.

Then I remembered, I don’t have to follow the route. I can Elden Ring this bastard and fuck off to the south before hitting up Margit/bird village.

@tartyron: Everything hits like a truck and that kinda just stays true. I have almost a full top row of hearts now and the difference is that now I can probably take TWO really good hits from tougher enemies. It encourages either really aggressive play or being hyper cautious with range and arrows and not a whole lot of room in between.

The tools you have pretty quickly become so versatile that it just... stops being a problem but it's still really weird that you so little room for mistakes.

@efesell: Are people upgrading their armor? Yes some of the harder enemies will still hit very very hard, but if you take the time to upgrade your armor a lot of the weaker mobs become trivial and you can play super sloppy around them if you want. But the game has always been intended to feel harsh.

Personally I think this game is incredible. I haven't fallen in love this hard with a game in a long time.

I am absolutely loving it so far. And one of the many reasons is the shift in atmosphere.

In Breath of the Wild Link woke up in a post-apocalypse where the crisis that ended civilization just got muted, not defeated, and has lasted for the past 1000 years or so. There were people and towns, but few and far between. The world was beautiful and often serene, but also very dangerous for ordinary folk, meaning it felt empty of life in a way. And I loved that, it fit and made sense.

Now Link woke up in a post-post-apocalypse, where until recently everything was going well. The land was safe-ish again, and people had finally been able to breathe and spread around. And because the current calamity is fresh, those vibes are still in effect. The world is hostile and dangerous, full of monsters again and falling pieces of an ancient civilization, but people are optimistic. They are doing stuff, moving around the world, living in a way they just didn't in the last game.

Just masterfully done.

@bigsocrates: I bet a lot of people upgrade way later in this one. You are pretty directly encouraged to go NW which is the opposite direction of the first fairy. Unlike before where it was at Kakariko which the story naturally funneled you to.

now that i'm mainlining a bit more and ignoring a lot of the replicated open world distractions, i'm having a better time (backpack koroks can chill, honestly- and shrine variety can be luck of the draw based on your path). it likely says more about my personal psychology than this game's construction- but i think these BotW style games drive me to abandon my completionist tendencies- but not in a 'oh my god i'm freeee!' way, more like a 'oh, i'm so over this particular style of challenge.' which i can't fully account for- because i DID nearly 100% BotW, and there are plenty of open world style games i've hit 100% on. and yet...hmm, much to consider.

i will say it was nice to hear vinny on nextlander's podcast this week reflect a more tempered experience with TotK similar to my own.

this is very much a thing, and i find this line of critique pretty myopic. it will lead us down a rabbit hole that is probably best served by an admittedly navel-gazey thread a few weeks from now when opinions are more fully formed, but i do wish the frequent construction in certain circles of "well this clearly is the platonic ideal of game design" would be abandoned for something a bit more reasonable like "this is why this works in this instance." you only need to look at something like this video (itself a contextless clip from their podcast) which, i don't mean to pick on because i love MinnMax and am a supporter- but the sentiment in comments seems to be "i don't need everything to mimic BotW/TotK's approach" and counter to the video's implied message.

I've been upgrading my armour but still some of the enemies hit pretty hard especially, uhhh, down below. I noticed that the beefier armour sets with much stronger ratings from BOTW haven't been sold anywhere I've found so far, so I've been having to rely on upgrading the much weaker sets.

That plus unlocking the fairies is a much involved process this time around. I didn't find how to unlock them at all until probably 20 hours in. I found the fairies themselves but not the means to go about making them available. I missed the hint for where to start that series of quests for a long time.

@topcyclist:

It was the language used, not the opinion stated. That post and others here read like a chatgpt bot asked to write what a boomer things a zoomer talks like about a given subject.

The Jiukoum Shrine made me really really happy. That is all for today.

@stryill: You sound very much like an AI.

The shrines have been my favourite part of the game. They really make the new mechanics shine and it seems like they tuned many of the shrines to be more fun rather than purely challenging. It's kind of a bummer to see a bunch of people write off the shrines as bad, complain that the shrines are too hard, or say that they use guides for them without trying to figure them out first. I think if people gave shrines a bit more of a chance they'd like them a lot more. The first couple shrines outside of the tutorial ones were a struggle for me too but I found that once I learned how the game communicates what it wants the player to do, they become a lot more straightforward to figure out.

yeah, i'm going back-n-forth on how i feel about shrines. on the one hand- i appreciate the change of pace and (at times) elegant way they're used to communicate concepts you can immediately put into action.

but on the other hand- half the time they come off to me like a diet-version of Portal- with an aesthetic and tone i find contextually off-putting, and solutions that are brute-forcible (which admittedly some people love, but i get frustrated knowing i'm solving a problem outside the intent of designers). with those stark environs and generally a single concept they're intended to convey- i think i prefer puzzles that can only be solved one way.

i think a large part of my tepid take on them is the open nature- i imagine it's nigh impossible to do incremental learning like Portal does due to the open-world nature of the game. if things can be done in any sequence- i'm not sure how you make it cohesive.

tl;dr i like that they're there- but i'm not sure the quantity and quality are just right IMHO.

edit: FWIW the eventide island style challenges where they limit your gear are by far by favorites.

Yeah I'm certainly in the camp of loving the flexibility that a lot of the puzzles have. Just sort of saying look you are here and you need to be There, we built an elaborate way to do this but I won't chide you if you reach into your pocket full of Rocket Shields, or create a weird time traveling elevator system.

I really enjoy the shrines, but they they do very disconnected and tonally different from the rest of the game. It's like the game takes a break from being Zelda to being some indie puzzler mod made from a TotK level editor. I wish there was something to give them more personality. Like if there were occasionally NPCs from the world who stumbled into them and need help, or if completing them could change some element of the world above, or something.

While I am kvetching... am I the only one who kinda misses Divine Beasts? I'm on my third temple, and they're cool, but I really liked being able to manipulate the whole beast like a giant puzzle box. People seem to really dislike them, but the first time I lifted the trunk on Vah Ruto I was floored.

I'm also not a big fan of The Depths. So far there's not really much interesting, aside from some story moments that connect with the overworld.

@wollywoo: I definitely prefer the Temples, despite the fact that they're all kind of the same... find 5 Keys to reach the Boss room.

Now the Depths... I love the Depths. That place actually triggers my urge to Just Explore way more than anything on the overworld does.

@efesell:

I just hit the depths for the first time this afternoon for a quest. Not a place I wanna be right now with my 4 hearts, but I did end up exploring more than I anticipated. You see that next lightroot and you're like "hmm I could probably make that trek." Then I ran into a gloom infused Lynel and said noooope for now..

I don't know exactly how many hours I've been playing, but I feel like I've been fucking around for quite a long time at this point. Twenty to thirty hours I'd guess? I finished the Rito dungeon but haven't done the other three, even though that's the general direction I've been heading.

I made some comments earlier about how weapon durability doesn't seem as bad this time around. I retract that. I spent some time engaging in more combat than I had before and, well, I broke one too many weapons. It's incredibly irritating. I am not going to let it stop me from playing, but it sure does suck to go "hm, I found this awesome weapon fuse combo that does 20 more damage but I'm going to use this Boko Club fused to a rock instead because I don't care if it breaks". This design decision is indefensible. I'm not against the idea that everything is a resource that can be broken or thrown away at a moment's notice, but in this game that begins and ends with the question "is this the encounter where I want to use my special weapon?" And that's not fun or engaging. A simple solution would be if I could use some sort of item to make a weapon I like "repairable" or something, or make a tier of weapons that are repairable, or have some more weapons that work like the Master Sword (breakable, but repairs itself after a certain time).

Otherwise... I think my only real complaint is that you can't batch cook anything. You still need to just resign yourself to the fact that once every few play sessions you should probably spend some time cooking. I don't find this to be a huge deal, but it still sucks to spend fifteen minutes making stuff.

As far as Shrines go, I have enjoyed them for the most part. However, I have found myself using Recall Elevators to skip a lot of stuff in these Shrines. This might be purposeful? Like "here's a puzzle, if you don't like it we included a mechanic that trivializes it so you can get the reward anyway". In case you don't know what I mean, you can use Ultrahand to move a platform or something somewhere, pull it back, stand on it, then use Recall to make the platform make that movement to get yourself somewhere. Or to move an item somewhere.

EDIT: I should mention, I don't think I'm "cooling" on this game. I still think it's fantastic and very much worth your time. I have loved exploring around and adventuring and just being in this world. And combat isn't all bad - I think bows are more useful and interesting than they've ever been and they seem better about durability anyway. There's a lot to love here and I'm looking forward to playing a whole lot more of it.

Ehh, I think this idea of worrying about when to use special weapons or whatever is just the RPG megalixer problem in a different form.

Just break your weapons on whatever is in the way, it's fine, they're going to drop parts that will make something that's probably just as good as what you just broke unless you are really slumming it against weaker foes.

@efesell: This isn't necessarily true for the very best weapons because weapons will break more often than you'll take down a big guy who will drop something really good, though there are side activities you can do to increase your regular access to good fuse stuff without too much work.

What I will say is that I disagree with @justin258 about the mechanic being "indefensible." It has one strong defense, which is that it forces you to use a huge variety of weapons and tactics in the game. Now you can certainly say you would like the game better without it or that it should have been implemented differently or whatever, and I'll probably agree with you, but it makes the game play differently than it would if you could just find one weapon you liked and stick with it, upgrading or swapping every 5 hours or whatever.

@bigsocrates: I guess so, but whether it's a World Level sort of thing or just my path through the game I keep a steady stock of Black Moblin/Lizalfos parts or Construct III parts so like the boss drops I have are better sure but not like... oh no I don't want to break this 30 damage weapon then I'll have to use one of my half dozen 25 damage weapons.

@efesell: I agree. But for some people going from a 30 to a 25 really bothers them.

For me the biggest issues are inventory management because you need more situational weapons in this game than in BOTW in my opinion and I really wish there was a way to fuse from the menu (maybe there is and I didn't see it?) I tend to keep a few naked weapons around in my inventory for unexpected situations but it always feels dumb when during a fight with an enemy who is weak to electricity your shock weapon breaks so you need to find a quiet corner to make a new one. And a few times I've dropped my component only to have it get flung away by a wind attack or whatever. It's never killed me or anything but it feels awkward as heck!

The quick item menu is so confusing to me because it seems like the entire point of it would be to quickly Throw an item or Fuse an item or whatever and it's... just not. You can't even use it to hold ingredients for cooking unless I'm misremembering.

Boy is this ever a take--James Stephanie Sterling's review of TotK:

https://www.thejimquisition.com/post/the-legend-of-zelda-tears-of-the-kingdom-like-tears-in-rain-review

It's a good read. Sterling remains a razor-sharp critic, even when you might disagree with them.

Honestly that's all a collection of really good points that people will see a 7 at the end of and just start screaming.

@efesell: Yuuuuup.

I tried many times to play Breath of the Wild with the recent release I tried once more, I spent an evening accidently throwing my sword away and waiting to climb a mountain.

I appreciate everything Breath of the Wild is doing but I just can't, it's a Ubisoft title with worse QOL features. Steph TotK review is almost my exact experience with Breath of the Wild.

As someone who truly loves this game and BOTW I can't really disagree with JSS's review. I think the rain is the most indefensible returning mechanic (especially because the anti-slip stuff DOESN'T EVEN HELP THAT MUCH) though I think they weirdly don't mention my second least favorite which is how convoluted upgrading your armor is and how annoying the constant armor swapping is as you transition between areas that require different sets and often forget to swap back to your highest defense pieces.

People who get upset about video game review scores (other than developers of those games) are pathetic. Even as a kid who only ever had Nintendo consoles until the PlayStation, I loved going to my Sega Kid friends' houses and playing their games. Being a console or franchise fanboy/warrior as an adult is just sad. Don't like what JSS says? Don't read/watch them. Think they got something wrong? Leave a polite comment telling them so. The game is a huge financial success and a critical darling. Who gets mad at one critic whose critical review is frankly more thoughtful than most of the ones singing its praises (and again I already consider this one of my favorite games of all time.)

I've always really appreciated Sterling even though I fell off regularly following their stuff some time ago--I think because at one point their videos seemed to be getting a bit long and repetitious, and they seemed to be trending toward a younger audience. Nonetheless, they have a unique perspective and voice, and covered some things in detail that most other critics never or barely touched (e.g., a lot of Steam Greenlight games when that was still a thing, and also the Koei Warriors games, which I've been known to have an affinity for).

But I was interested in this review because I fell off that first game hard due largely to the weapon durability, and this one leads with that problem front and center. I can't speak to its accuracy since I'm not playing TotK right now myself, but as @thepanzini already mentioned, it seems to articulate my problems with the first game, which not a lot of other critics seem to be doing so much.

Also, Sterling is a good writer, and this was a compelling read, even not having played the game. I remember enjoying their written reviews for Destructoid/Escapist, but when I stopped following them I think they'd largely also stopped doing any written stuff in favor of only videos. If they're making a return to writing then I should probably start paying attention again.

Anyway, didn't really mean to derail this into a "JSS is great" thread. Carry on!

Completely agree with Sterlings review.

No one ever asks for the weapon degradation (WD) system in other games. And all I’ve seen is WD defenders, not actual people who enjoy the system.

And I wish I could overcome that issue, but it’s so glaring to me that I can’t enjoy the other aspects of the game that it does well. The exploration and open world elements seem really well done, but I’ll never fully know.

I can’t help but think that “nobody asked for…” is such a weird framing though. Because it’s a little like saying “You know what nobody ever asked for? Limitations! Why would we ever have those they’re so unnecessary” and then suddenly half of all game design falls apart.

Not enjoying the system is understandable, I hated it in botw, but it absolutely has a reasonable design intent and function and there’s a lot of pretending that it’s some unnecessary whim they have.

@efesell: Half the game’s design definitely does not fall apart from losing weapon degradation. The strengths of the game are exploration-focused. The fact that a weapon breaks after 3-4 uses is just dumb. Even if you want weapon degradation as a designer, it shouldn’t be this extreme. Plus, their menu system is just terrible at handling this specific problem of having to switch weapons all the time.

If anything, the exploration and combat design aspects are actually worse off because of weapon degradation and the huge impact it has on the pacing of the game.

@efesell: I think the argument here is that it's a thing that maybe can be defended but that nobody would really miss if it weren't there while a lot of people would enjoy the game much more. And I think that's probably fair and true here. The counter argument is that these games are very popular and that people may not actively want the weapon degradation but they're part of the design that makes you play a certain way and feel a certain way (vulnerable and like you always need to scrounge for stuff to fight with.)

I do think there are limitations that people ask for. People complain that some games are too easy, or that NPCs give puzzle solutions too quickly, or things like that. I think part of the evolution of game design has been figuring out what of this stuff works and what doesn't (even platformers have mostly done away with limited lives except for very intentional throwbacks.)

I do think it's weird that everyone talks about Link as this master swordsman and he spends half the game waving around a literal stick with some creature's body part stuck to it.

@sravankb: But it isn’t that extreme, weapons don’t break in 3-4 hits you’re describing the tree branches and like nothing else in the game.

I break like… one weapon every two or three whole fights. Then I slap a horn onto whatever stick was dropped and don’t even miss a beat.

I hated it in the prior game for sure because if I’m breaking a good sword on something using a club or whatever then I’m never really gaining anything from combat.

@efesell: Weapons break pretty regularly until you reach the mid-game and start getting durability buffed weapons and being able to regularly find better stuff, and also have a large enough weapon's stash that you can carry a few spares. At that point it ceases to be a real problem, though if you strongly prefer one type of weapon (like one handed swords or spears) you do have to do some inventory management stuff to make sure you have a steady supply.

It's a minor inconvenience for me but others hate it and I don't think I'd miss it if it were gone.

What I dislike more is how damage spongy many of the later enemies are. You have to whale on them for a really long time even using relatively good weapons.

I've noticed that the Zelda amiibo don't give as good of rewards as they did in BOTW. You used to get level 40-50 weapons and shields and some good bows, while in TOTK you get rather paltry rewards in comparison. I leaned heavily on that stuff in BOTW as it mostly alleviated my annoyances. The fuse system manages to negate most of my gripes, and I can see why Nintendo would scale that stuff back, however, I would still prefer it was the same as in BOTW.