THQ 2011 sale figures - what's next?

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#51 Posted by Superfriend (1564 posts) -

I feel sorry for the guys who bought Red Faction Armageddon thinking it is a good game that follows in Guerilla´s footsteps.

That series deserved so much better. Shame on THQ and Volition for letting that happen. Hope the same doesn´t happen to Saint´s Row.. but with THQ anything seems to be possible. The people making the decisions in that company obviously have no idea about what makes a game great.

#52 Posted by Creamypies (4075 posts) -

Well I guess this means the THQ pack will be on sale on Steam soon :D

#53 Posted by Ravenlight (8040 posts) -

@NightOnyx said:

Homefront was another THQ game that came out last year. According to Vgchartz it sold over 2 million, so that's another relatively successful game for THQ.

Homefront was also offensively bad. I'm pretty sure I got a kidney stone from playing it. I'd like to see a related chart about how much they spent on marketing each game.

#54 Posted by Seedofpower (3937 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

@Winternet: VGChartz pulls their sales figures out of thin air. They're not reliable in the least.

Yup. I can at least vouch for one of those games. It has already been stated that Space Marine has broken 1 million mark in sales. Retribution is only an expansion for a game that game out 3 years ago and if that number was right I say that is pretty good.

#55 Posted by SlasherMan (1725 posts) -
#56 Edited by Mnemoidian (955 posts) -

@Superfriend: Come on, Armageddon wasn't offensively bad, it was just extremely average. Also, that Descent section was pretty interesting..

Also, Mr. Toots is in Armaggeddon, can you really hate a game where you can fire a magical unicorn?

Just in case you weren't really sure it was the same guys behind Saints Row: The Third.

#57 Posted by Cloudenvy (5891 posts) -

Never trust VGChartz...Ever.

#58 Posted by Rolyatkcinmai (2695 posts) -

It's already been stated, but VGChartz is historically one of the least reputable sites on the entire internet.

#59 Edited by TMThomsen (2078 posts) -

@ajamafalous said:

Retribution only sold 60K? Surely that's just retail and doesn't include Steam, right?

Yup. None of those numbers include Steam.

#60 Posted by SammydesinasNL (840 posts) -

@KingWilly said:

So THQ shuttered Kaos and moved Homefront 2 to the Timesplitters guys.

I agree with the rest of your post but didn't they become part of Crytek?

#61 Posted by Cloudenvy (5891 posts) -

@SammydesinasNL said:

@KingWilly said:

So THQ shuttered Kaos and moved Homefront 2 to the Timesplitters guys.

I agree with the rest of your post but didn't they become part of Crytek?

The Timesplitters guys became Crytek UK, I think.

#62 Posted by biospank (660 posts) -
@Winternet: its actually 500k and over that.
#63 Edited by Winternet (8025 posts) -

@Seedofpower: I hate to be the guy that points out the difference between sold and shipped.

@SlasherMan: Do you expect me to go through 100 page pdf files to find out how much a game sold? And after going through the pdf find out that no where it says how many copies were sold?

If anyone knows a website where I can put a name on a search bar and sale figures come out on the other end please tell me.

@biospank said:

@Winternet: its actually 500k and over that.

Context?

#64 Edited by Cloudenvy (5891 posts) -

@Winternet: Unless a developer or publisher actually releases the numbers, there's no way to really know.

#65 Posted by Superfriend (1564 posts) -

@Mnemoidian said:

@Superfriend: Come on, Armageddon wasn't offensively bad, it was just extremely average. Also, that Descent section was pretty interesting..

Also, Mr. Toots is in Armaggeddon, can you really hate a game where you can fire a magical unicorn?

Just in case you weren't really sure it was the same guys behind Saints Row: The Third.

I don´t care for your unicorns!!! Nah, all kidding aside, it could have been a great game. Imagine a follow up to Guerilla with better open world and better tech.. just more care put into it. I would have loved that game- and I´m sure a lot of other people would have too. I just feel that whoever makes the decisions over at Volition/THQ doesn´t really get why these games are good.. If they keep this up, the next Saints Row game will be a hyper stupid, really humorous game. But also a fucking linear average third person shooter. And nobody will buy it. And Volition will die. And I will be sad.

#66 Posted by JasonR86 (9742 posts) -

How could Red Faction sell better than De Blob 2? Well...I guess I know how but it still bums me out.

#67 Posted by ll_Exile_ll (1803 posts) -
@Winternet said:

@ll_Exile_ll said:

@Winternet said:

@AhmadMetallic: I believe the average number of sales for a game to turn profit is around the 1M mark.

Maybe it takes 1M to turn a profit on games like Homefront and Saints Row, but I'm pretty sure things like Spongebob SquigglePants and Kung Fu Panda 2 cost far less to develop and can in fact turn a profit with far fewer sales.

Again, that's why I used the word average. Jeez.

And if Homefront needed 1M copies to turn a profit, why were they closed even though they sold more than 2M?

That was about critical success, not financial success. This was actually one of the most sickening studio closures in recent memory because the game was a success, yet THQ still closed Kaos because it wasn't the 90 metacritic game they were looking for, despite it's financial success.
#68 Posted by Winternet (8025 posts) -

@Cloudenvy said:

@Winternet: Unless a developer or publisher actually releases the numbers, there's no way to really know.

For the sake of discussion, we'll have to do with these numbers.

@ll_Exile_ll: I don't know about that. I believe Homefront sunk many resources both on development and marketing. Over 2M copies just wasn't enough to turn profit. At least, that's what I think.

#69 Posted by Cloudenvy (5891 posts) -

@Winternet: Isn't it kind of pointless to have a discussion whether or not THQ is doing well based on a bunch of made up numbers?

#70 Edited by Winternet (8025 posts) -

@Cloudenvy: Just because the numbers aren't accurate doesn't mean they're inaccurate by a million or something. Besides, the numbers are just a complimentary to the fact that studios are being closed and the bad reception of some of their games.

#71 Edited by Cloudenvy (5891 posts) -

@Winternet: But they're practically still made up out of thin air...You might as well have gone "I estimate that they sold something like this *random list of numbers*".

Bad reception? none of those games received bad scores, and with no real numbers to back anything up the only argument you have left is basically "two studios got closed this year, future is looking grim at THQ!" even though we don't know why those studios got shut down in the first place.

#72 Posted by Tennmuerti (8135 posts) -

Numbers are way off.
Vgcharts is known to be a bad source for sales numbers.
Especially when it comes to digital sales.

Glaringly obviously bad entry here is Dawn of War 2: Retribution.
DoW is a PC only gamefranchise whose sales are primarily digital.
The game sold way way more then 60k copies by the MP numbers alone that can be seen in game.
Also to quote from the THQ annual report for 2011:

In core games, we continued to build on
the Warhammer 40,000 brand with the
launch of Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War
2 Retribution, bringing THQ to 6.5 million
units shipped for this PC franchise.

#73 Posted by Winternet (8025 posts) -

@Cloudenvy: Bad scores in relative terms. Both Homefront and Red Faction were supposed to go for the high 80s and they stood in the low 70s. And why were the studios closed? Well, making tons of money wasn't the reason, I'm sure.

@Tennmuerti said:

Numbers are way off.
Vgcharts is known to be a bad source for sales numbers.
Especially when it comes to digital sales.

Glaringly obviously bad entry here is Dawn of War 2: Retribution.
DoW is a PC only gamefranchise whose sales are primarily digital.
The game sold way way more then 60k copies by the MP numbers alone that can be seen in game.
Also to quote from the THQ annual report for 2011:

In core games, we continued to build on
the Warhammer 40,000 brand with the
launch of Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War
2 Retribution, bringing THQ to 6.5 million
units shipped for this PC franchise.

Again, the word used is shipped, not sold. Even so, if we take the 6.5M and divide by 22, which is the number of games of the franchise, it equals roughly 300K. I say retribution is on the lower side of the average, so let's make it 100/150K which isn't far off the 60K number.

#74 Edited by Cloudenvy (5891 posts) -

@Winternet: But what's there left to discuss in this thread then? A few games might have underperformed but we don't really know since we don't know any hard numbers and suddenly THQ has had a bad year and or the future is grim for them?

This whole thing just seems like guesswork to me.

#75 Edited by Tennmuerti (8135 posts) -
@Winternet said:

@Cloudenvy: Bad scores in relative terms. Both Homefront and Red Faction were supposed to go for the high 80s and they stood in the low 70s. And why were the studios closed? Well, making tons of money wasn't the reason, I'm sure.

@Tennmuerti said:

Numbers are way off.
Vgcharts is known to be a bad source for sales numbers.
Especially when it comes to digital sales.

Glaringly obviously bad entry here is Dawn of War 2: Retribution.
DoW is a PC only gamefranchise whose sales are primarily digital.
The game sold way way more then 60k copies by the MP numbers alone that can be seen in game.
Also to quote from the THQ annual report for 2011:

In core games, we continued to build on
the Warhammer 40,000 brand with the
launch of Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War
2 Retribution, bringing THQ to 6.5 million
units shipped for this PC franchise.

Again, the word used is shipped, not sold. Even so, if we take the 6.5M and divide by 22, which is the number of games of the franchise, it equals roughly 300K. I say retribution is on the lower side of the average, so let's make it 100/150K which isn't far off the 60K number.

  • Where are you getting the 22 figure from? The PC Dawn of War franchice which is what the number is for is just 2 games with 6 expansions, fort a total of 8 products
  • Shipped is sold to the publisher. They don't care about store numbers sold. They make money on what they ship.
  • Even if we go by your number of 22, 100/150 is double as much as what vgcharts has posted, double. That is a HUGE difference in real numbers. Which again is why vgcharts is not trusted for actual numbers.
  • Considering there are only 8 games of the PC franchise, the actual sales are anywhere from  x4 to x10 that vgcharts number.
#76 Posted by SlasherMan (1725 posts) -

@Winternet said:

@SlasherMan: Do you expect me to go through 100 page pdf files to find out how much a game sold? And after going through the pdf find out that no where it says how many copies were sold?

Well, if you want to be thorough and factual, then yes. Ultimately, it is revenue and profits that dictate whether they're going to stay afloat or not, and while sales numbers are obviously a big factor, they're not what you should be looking at if your goal here is to see whether this year was profitable for THQ or not.

Whatever the case, VGChartz is a very unreliable source and its data will likely mislead you. Like Jimbo said, the best source is the publisher itself.

#77 Posted by Winternet (8025 posts) -

@Cloudenvy: Add below-expectation quality games, poor sale figures, studios being closed and consecutive losses in the last financial reports and we can discuss THQ not-so-good situation.

@Tennmuerti: a) I think they're talking about the Warhammer 40,000 franchise. b) they don't count digital sales, because no one announces those numbers

@SlasherMan: No, I did go through your 100 page pdf file. Does not mention sale figures. I'm not arguing vgchartz is a good source. All I'm saying it is the only one.

#78 Posted by Cloudenvy (5891 posts) -

@Winternet: “Additionally, we are thrilled with the great performance of Saints Row: The Third, which on a like for like period in North America has tripled in sell-through from Saints Row 2. In addition, WWE ’12’s worldwide sell-through sales are up almost 40% year-over-year for the same sales period with fewer platforms. According to NPD, for the month of December and the 2011 year, THQ was the #5 publisher overall, #4 third party, with reported sell through growing over 18% in a market that was down almost 6%."

Seems like THQ is doing just fine to me.

"As we have previously announced, we have dramatically reduced our commitment to the kids’ boxed games sector"

And that would explain why De Blob's studio got closed.

#79 Edited by august (3853 posts) -
@spilledmilkfactory: The response they made in a conference call to investors was that they've decided to shelve the Red Faction IP.
 
EDITL They've also said that the WH 40k MMO doesn't leave any room for a Space Marine sequel so they're not making it.
Online
#80 Posted by buzz_killington (3532 posts) -

I dont know what's going on with their shares, because these numbers are passable, if not stellar. They probably broke even on most games...

#81 Posted by Tennmuerti (8135 posts) -
@Winternet said:

@Tennmuerti: a) I think they're talking about the Warhammer 40,000 franchise. b) they don't count digital sales, because no one announces those numbers

a) No it's specifically the Dawn of War PC franchise. The 40k franchice is spread far beyond PC or THQ.
b) Obviously. That still leaves their numbers wrong. Hugely so for a PC only franchise.
#82 Posted by Seedofpower (3937 posts) -

I think everyone on this thread has come to a conclusion that Winternet's numbers are unreliable and we should just wait for what this next year brings. They got some pretty interesting core titles coming out this year and we should wait for E3.

#83 Edited by Winternet (8025 posts) -

@Cloudenvy: The numbers don't lie. 4th consecutive fiscal year reporting losses. 35% decrease in their net sales in the last 4 years.

#84 Edited by Cloudenvy (5891 posts) -

@Winternet: I didn't say they didn't have losses, did I?

I said they seem to be just fine, you make it sound like impending doom is awaiting them if Metro or Darksiders doesn't sell and considering your unreliable numbers you can't make that call.

#85 Posted by Winternet (8025 posts) -

@Cloudenvy: Well, having losses and being fine looks to me as two different concepts. And impending doom is a bit strong. All I said is if both Metro and Darksiders turn out to be failures then we'll have legitimate worries about the future of THQ and its projects.

#86 Posted by Cloudenvy (5891 posts) -

@Winternet: Not to me in this day and age, Sony is 32 millions down the drain but they still seem totally fine even if they have lost a ton.

Just because you're having losses doesn't mean that you're in an imminent crisis.

#87 Posted by Winternet (8025 posts) -

@Cloudenvy: I don't expect Sony to be on 5 years with losses and with 35% decrease on net sales. You can't compare the two.

#88 Edited by Cloudenvy (5891 posts) -

@Winternet said:

@Cloudenvy: I don't expect Sony to be on 5 years with losses and with 35% decrease on net sales. You can't compare the two.

Sony pretty much has been on a 5 year losing streak.....

#89 Posted by Winternet (8025 posts) -

@Cloudenvy: Don't know. Don't have the data. Again, I find it hard to be comparable. Besides, what Sony are you talking about?

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