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Posted by Do_The_Manta_Ray

I feel like Blizzard went out of their way to make this expansion solely for me, or at least folks like me. There's exactly one aspect of Warcraft I remain obsessed with to this day, and that's Grom Hellscream. (To the point where my favourite hero in DOTA is Juggernaut, and will forever more be.)

With him back in the picture, I just.. Won't be able to resist picking this damn thing up. As lame as time-travel is as a concept, and as desperate as Blizzard seem, a combination of outworld, orcs, the burning legion and Hellscream is the best thing imaginable for me.

So yes, I did like Burning Crusade quite a bit.

Posted by carg0

like Final Fantasy, WarCraft (as well as Diablo & Starcraft, because let's be honest) will be relevant again. some day...

Posted by heatDrive88

@zirilius said:

He's quite possibly the biggest dickhead in all of WoW. I'm glad that we got the chance to crush him in Pandaria.

I'll be interested in Thrall's role in Draenor. I know its stupid to preorder this but I'd like that free level 90 boost to get a shaman ready.

I tried to read a wiki to understand what Thrall has been doing since Burning Crusade, and I couldn't really make out what the deal was other than he was trying to fix the Cataclysm, or something with the Earthen.

But from what I did read to get up to date on the lore, I'm actually more interested in what Baine Bloodhoof and Vol'jin are going to be up to. That shit that went down with Cairne was a raw deal.

Posted by Boboblaw

Taht was a pretty great cinematic. Still not as good as the WotlK cinematic but nonetheless pretty great.

Posted by Tennmuerti

@heatdrive88 said:

Orcs are still the coolest race, jussayin'.

Anyways, I'm a little confused by this lore - assuming that is indeed Grom Hellscream, Gul'Dan, and Mannoroth - wasn't the whole basis of WC3 based on Grom accepting and drinking the Blood of Mannoroth? Is this looking at like a canonical revision if Grom turned it down instead or something for the expansion?

I'm confused... but goddamn do I still love the lore.

From what I understand, it's time travel. At the end of the current Pandaria storyline Garrosh Hellscream is defeated by the players and imprisoned. A Bronze Dragon however frees him and using the dark portal transports him through time to the Draenor of 35(ish) years ago, before his father and the other orc leaders accept Mannoroths Blood (as depicted in the cinematic). Instead of the demonic blood, they use Garrosh's knowledge of tactics and advanced military technology to form the Iron Horde, imprison both Gul'Dan and Mannoroth under the Dark Portal to power it.

But uh, wouldn't this then completely screw up and alter all the following events?

Posted by Efesell

@carg0 said:

like Final Fantasy, WarCraft (as well as Diablo & Starcraft, because let's be honest) will be relevant again. some day...

I feel like this is not well thought out.

Posted by RedRoach

@giefcookie said:

@heatdrive88 said:

Orcs are still the coolest race, jussayin'.

Anyways, I'm a little confused by this lore - assuming that is indeed Grom Hellscream, Gul'Dan, and Mannoroth - wasn't the whole basis of WC3 based on Grom accepting and drinking the Blood of Mannoroth? Is this looking at like a canonical revision if Grom turned it down instead or something for the expansion?

I'm confused... but goddamn do I still love the lore.

From what I understand, it's time travel. At the end of the current Pandaria storyline Garrosh Hellscream is defeated by the players and imprisoned. A Bronze Dragon however frees him and using the dark portal transports him through time to the Draenor of 35(ish) years ago, before his father and the other orc leaders accept Mannoroths Blood (as depicted in the cinematic). Instead of the demonic blood, they use Garrosh's knowledge of tactics and advanced military technology to form the Iron Horde, imprison both Gul'Dan and Mannoroth under the Dark Portal to power it.

But uh, wouldn't this then completely screw up and alter all the following events?

nope! It's basically alternate timeline stuff, separate universe. Everything that happened in the main timeline stays the same.

Posted by PresidentOfJellybeans

That was pretty badass.

Edited by maxB

Wow that got me really pumped up for the new expansion! I think imma start leveling an orc shaman. Kinda forgot how much I enjoy the lore, hopefully they try to do more with that rather than a bunch more pop culture references every other quest.

Posted by Stimpack

So I heard that the Warcraft movie would be live action, and I have to ask... why? Seriously... why?

Edited by heatDrive88

@redroach said:

@tennmuerti said:

@giefcookie said:

@heatdrive88 said:

Orcs are still the coolest race, jussayin'.

Anyways, I'm a little confused by this lore - assuming that is indeed Grom Hellscream, Gul'Dan, and Mannoroth - wasn't the whole basis of WC3 based on Grom accepting and drinking the Blood of Mannoroth? Is this looking at like a canonical revision if Grom turned it down instead or something for the expansion?

I'm confused... but goddamn do I still love the lore.

From what I understand, it's time travel. At the end of the current Pandaria storyline Garrosh Hellscream is defeated by the players and imprisoned. A Bronze Dragon however frees him and using the dark portal transports him through time to the Draenor of 35(ish) years ago, before his father and the other orc leaders accept Mannoroths Blood (as depicted in the cinematic). Instead of the demonic blood, they use Garrosh's knowledge of tactics and advanced military technology to form the Iron Horde, imprison both Gul'Dan and Mannoroth under the Dark Portal to power it.

But uh, wouldn't this then completely screw up and alter all the following events?

nope! It's basically alternate timeline stuff, separate universe. Everything that happened in the main timeline stays the same.

Probably the best way to look at it is the same way the newer Star Trek movies 'canonically rebooted' the series, except instead of Spock being all cool and shit, it was Garrosh being a huge asshole to everyone.

Posted by Efesell

@stimpack said:

So I heard that the Warcraft movie would be live action, and I have to ask... why? Seriously... why?

It's probably way cheaper.

Posted by Zirilius

@zirilius said:

He's quite possibly the biggest dickhead in all of WoW. I'm glad that we got the chance to crush him in Pandaria.

I'll be interested in Thrall's role in Draenor. I know its stupid to preorder this but I'd like that free level 90 boost to get a shaman ready.

I tried to read a wiki to understand what Thrall has been doing since Burning Crusade, and I couldn't really make out what the deal was other than he was trying to fix the Cataclysm, or something with the Earthen.

But from what I did read to get up to date on the lore, I'm actually more interested in what Baine Bloodhoof and Vol'jin are going to be up to. That shit that went down with Cairne was a raw deal.

The horde lore is in a weird place with Thrall stepping down and Vol'jin stepping up as Warchief. The Thrall stuff should be interesting since we might see some interaction with him, Durotan, and Grom. I'm more interested in what Sylvannas and Lor'themar Theron are going to be doing in new Outlands.

Posted by NathanXplosion

I started playing WoW over the weekend because Dan's feature on the site got me curious and now I'm hooked.

Posted by Bjorn

I wish Blizzard would stop mutilating their own lore. They are entering Lucas territory right now. The story of Durotan, fall of the Orcs and continuously the sacking of Stormwind was pretty freaking good. Not to mention that the whole freaking Warcraft lore is hinged on this one pivotal point, the creation of the green orcs, then the opening of the dark portal after they drunk the blood. How did Hellscream go trough the dark portal to a time when it wasn't even open? How will they open it now that the Burning Legion's influence is broken? Is necromancy even a class anymore? Where the fuck is Doomhammer?

But what I really don't get is that the orcs were mostly hunter's and shamans. Living peacefully with nature. The point was that they wouldn't have done what they did if not for the demon blood. That's their whole story, they where corrupted, fell from grace, murdered and plundered their way through Azeroth and sacking Stormwind. Marching on Lordaeron, killing Lothar, winning back their honor after killing Mannoroth in WarCraft 3.

My brain hurts, I cant think about this anymore. Guess it was inevitable that as with all good video-game lore, it will get mutilated sooner or later.

Posted by AMyggen

@bjorn said:

I wish Blizzard would stop mutilating their own lore. They are entering Lucas territory right now. The story of Durotan, fall of the Orcs and continuously the sacking of Stormwind was pretty freaking good. Not to mention that the whole freaking Warcraft lore is hinged on this one pivotal point, the creation of the green orcs, then the opening of the dark portal after they drunk the blood. How did Hellscream go trough the dark portal to a time when it wasn't even open? How will they open it now that the Burning Legion's influence is broken? Is necromancy even a class anymore? Where the fuck is Doomhammer?

But what I really don't get is that the orcs were mostly hunter's and shamans. Living peacefully with nature. The point was that they wouldn't have done what they did if not for the demon blood. That's their whole story, they where corrupted, fell from grace, murdered and plundered their way through Azeroth and sacking Stormwind. Marching on Lordaeron, killing Lothar, winning back their honor after killing Mannoroth in WarCraft 3.

My brain hurts, I cant think about this anymore. Guess it was inevitable that as with all good video-game lore, it will get mutilated sooner or later.

Are the events of WoW considered canon?

Posted by Relkin

@bjorn: Yeah I've got a lot of issues with this as well. I haven't played WoW in five years but I like(d) the Warcraft lore. So...are the events of everything up to this point now null and void? They still have a couple of storylines that could be made into expansions (the emerald dream comes to mind), but is any of that possible now? Did Malfurion live to see Archimonde die? Was Archimonde even a major player? Did Arthas and Ner'zhul(think that's right) ever become the Lich King? Mutilation might be too strong of a word, but it feels appropriate. This is disappointing.

Edited by Wastrel

@bjorn said:

But what I really don't get is that the orcs were mostly hunter's and shamans. Living peacefully with nature. The point was that they wouldn't have done what they did if not for the demon blood.

They were already attempting mass murder on the draenei because of Ner'zhul convincing them to do so. They were not living peacefully before drinking the blood.

And don't think that the Burning Legion's influence is broken. I bet Kil'jaeden won't stand idly by as his plan fails.

@relkin said:

So...are the events of everything up to this point now null and void?

Nope, time travel into an alternate timeline.

Posted by BoneChompski

You are not PREPARED!

Posted by Stimpack

@efesell: I thought about that, and I imagine you're entirely correct. That said, I'm sure it wouldn't be hard for them to make their money back and more. I mean, I imagine a full CGI WoW movie would shatter box office records with ease.

Posted by project343

It's hilarious how much trouble people are having with the idea of alternate timelines.

Edited by Wastrel

@project343: The main problem is that they've done time travel multiple times before and up until now it's been Back to the Future style where you're in the same timeline and changes can become permanent.

Posted by Efesell
Posted by AMyggen

@efesell: But people are mentioning alternative timelines and stuff like that here, which makes at least part of it not sound like canon.

Edited by Wastrel

@amyggen: This expansion takes place in an alternate timeline Draenor. Not anything else.

Posted by mlarrabee

That's technically (in the literal sense) really well done, but Blizzard's attempts at story and graphical design still make me purse my lower lip and raise my eyebrows.

Posted by AMyggen
Posted by petrolhead

It's hilarious how much trouble people are having with the idea of alternate timelines.

Personally, my problem with it, is that time has no dimension. All this time travelling doesn't hold to science to begin with and every argument is pure fiction. "Alternate timelines" implies one Universe split into two, that contradicts every laws of conservation.

Posted by Lazyaza

@vulshock said:

I would rather have a Warcraft movie like this instead of one with real actors.

Likewise but sadly that'd be so expensive they wouldn't be able to make games for a number of years. But that said the WoW movie is going to have more cgi than even Avatar did and that movie was 99% cgi for most of its run time.

Posted by maxB

@petrolhead: But this game isnt set in our universe, so any of our laws of pyhsics dont apply. Also magic.

Edited by petrolhead

@maxb said:

@petrolhead: But this game isnt set in our universe, so any of our laws of pyhsics dont apply. Also magic.

That's true, but then everyone is wrong and right, because we can't know. : (

Posted by Bipa

Damnit everything I've read about this expansion has made me want to avoid it like the plague, but damn that cinematic just made me go pre-order. Well done Blizzard you assholes!

Posted by mefipulate

oh god damn it i'm going to stick the needle back in arent i

Posted by ShadowSwordmaster

That is one good looking trailer.

Edited by Pr1mus

I assume this will take place in some capacity in Draenor before it was destroyed and became Outland.

Are they simply redesigning Outland like they did the old world in Cataclysm or does Outland continues to exist as it currently is and this becomes a separate world since they're talking about time travel?

Posted by moondogg

The disconnect between the action in this (and previous trailers for wow) and the gameplay is just so steep for me. So much that this feels like false advertising. I felt exactly the same about the old republic.

But mang. Someone just give them a script and let them make cg movies cause, yeah, this is real good looking.

Edited by wh00kie

Wait so the orcs aren't green? Boy oh boy what is even

Edited by makari

@petrolhead said:

@project343 said:

It's hilarious how much trouble people are having with the idea of alternate timelines.

Personally, my problem with it, is that time has no dimension. All this time travelling doesn't hold to science to begin with and every argument is pure fiction. "Alternate timelines" implies one Universe split into two, that contradicts every laws of conservation.

You have to think of it in terms of every decision ever made in history birthing a splinter future. They aren't dimensions, they are possibilities, and in the Warcraft universe it is possible to see, enter and manipulate the possibilities via time magic. The setup to WoD is a bit more complicated than that given it stretches over a few expansions of buildup but that's the basic gist: It's a possibility that has been linked magically to the real world, and thus has become real itself.

Posted by NoK
Posted by NoK

@efesell: Dying laughing over here not sure if you were trying to be funny but that just hit the right button

Posted by Graylend
Posted by Glottery

@pr1mus: Outland (sadly) continues to exist with it's dated questing, but maybe they'll shape it up in the next expansion.

Posted by SharkEthic
@bipa said:

Damnit everything I've read about this expansion has made me want to avoid it like the plague, but damn that cinematic just made me go pre-order. Well done Blizzard you assholes!

This is about the least sensical thing I've read in the past week...

Edited by Nymbel

These cinematics still gives me the chills.

Posted by reelife

They should've named it, World of Warcraft: Secret of the Ooze

Posted by selbie

If only the game was as fun as the trailer. They could do a lot more with the warcraft IP than just feeding the cash cow.

Posted by Huxleyy

@wh00kie: Orcs became green after drinking mannoroths' blood (which you see here is cancelled by Garrosh Hellscream via his father Grommash Hellscream)

Posted by 90sVibe

Imagine the WoW movie thats coming out next year was made with computer graphic tech than with real actors. so much better :)

OMG!! I can't wait for this expansion! comes out four days after my birthday. hint:

Posted by Lemonhead

To the people getting themselves riled up about lore-mutilation, alternate timelines and continuity reboots:

Watch the Blizzcon 2013 WoW lore panel. The developers explain how this time travel thing is going to work. Basically the current timeline is fine, and will remain untouched.

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