Capcom Forgot How to Count to Five

I hope the 5th character is Gouken's and Gouki's master. Capcom went already wild with Evil Ryu and Oni, imagine what they can unleash with a character like that.

I really hope Hugo isn't ass this time.

Well, obviously I'm excited about the inclusion of Rolento...

@griffinmills: It's all good. I probably needn't have said anything at all, as your post was more well-reasoned than something I could've produced myself... but there I was, inclined to nitpick anyway, haha.

Again, I appreciate your thoughts.

@zevvion: The only thing that has cost over $15 dollars is Super, and that was because of the amount of stuff they added. Arcade edition you could buy as a $15 add on, ver.2012 was free, and Ultra will be another $15 add on available digitally.

The beating to death of the word hype is why I can't watch anything fighting game related anymore.

Hey I tried, thanks for noticing. =) The crazy part is, I'm not a naysayer myself! I'm just trying to help explain, from the impression I've been given, one of the reasons why there are folks that post reactionary negative comments and how they may have gotten there. Heck, there are other reasons that are just as valid if not logical, like, "I just don't like it and I hate seeing iterations of something I hate year after year." Not to rope yet another debate into our ongoing one but I suppose we have to allow for beauty to be in the eye of the beholder if we are to allow for games to be art thus validating the "I just don't like it" crowd just as much as the, "I just plain love it!" crowd.

I think part of my problem was the lack of brevity in my post. As long as my comment was, I actually did quite a bit of pruning to get it down to what we saw, including a paragraph or more on the topic of why the 'nay' crowd had responsibilities on their end that aren't always being held up. It seems I may have over done that pruning a bit! Also, I can see where the consideration part might look a bit proselytizing when I just meant it as it was written, a thing I've found on my own and try to practice. Like anyone I'll do better or worse on any given day, but I try!

@y2ken: its a her...don't you even go there. she looks like a woman, acts like a woman, identifies as a woman, she is a woman. period.

.

Do I... do I dare jump back in?

It's ok, it took capcom years to learn to count to 3 in the 90s.

I feel like if they were to to to street fighter 5 then that'd require a complete reworking of the game. 3 was a much different game than 2 and 4 is a much different game than 3.

It's not like adding 5 new characters (even if they're returning from other games) is an 'easy' thing to do. Remember all of the uproar over how much it cost to add a new character to Skullgirls?

@alexrudz: the fighting genre have had a shot in the arm the last years, and I really loved mk 9. But it seems easy to fall into old habits. I hope that capcom doesn't ruin a good thing.

@mr_grimm: in one sense I'm appreciative that Capcom are continuing to support SF4, but I'm not totally sold on how they're doing it. You're right it does feel like a rehash of the old Capcom re-release methods.

I'm also really interested to see how the community reacts to the 'fan-requested' alterations to balancing.

@alexrudz: I thought capcom said when sf 4 came that they wouldn't milk the genre dry like last time, but its almost like it's worse this time.

I sold my stick, and only SF5 would convince me to buy a new one for this gen. I will be a bit sad not to be playing this though.

@zevvion: The game does have a 15 dollar option if you already own Super SF4.

I think people would just really like to see one game. Street Fighter IV. Then, in a 6 or 12 months time, Capcom would release a 'Super Street Fighter IV' update that you can purchase digitally for 15-20 bucks and it adds onto your existing copy of Street Fighter IV. Then another a year from that and so on.

I don't know if it's the same where you live, but here, all the updated games still cost 40-60 bucks each time.

Of course Capcom is putting in the work to make it happen, but that's far... far from a full game's effort. It's called an update for a reason. Most of the game and resources used are exactly the same.

People don't think it's shameless just because they release another update. They think it's shameless because they know this update will once again cost a full priced game to get, instead of a more appropriate price for what it is. Also, because you don't need the original to begin with, you are sort of being punished if you are into Street Fighter, because you really want the updated version, but there is no option to get it added on to your existing game. You need to buy a new full fledged game for it.

@griffinmills: The one catch of your post is that you seem to place all of the responsibility of discussion on the 'defenders', while anyone criticizing Capcom ought simply be understood. You're exactly right that one should stop and consider the other's opinion. Everyone should.

Anyway, I thank you for being the first person to make a thoughtful 'nay' post. If only you weren't an outlier...

GET HYPE FOR A HADOUKEN!

*insert joke about how I will wait for the version with an overly convoluted title*

A steam powered logo!

NO more GFWL

The actual people cut into this video should tell you who this is aimed at. They've been begging for another update. If you haven't been playing the game, why all the outrage? I'm excited for it.

I'd love to spend more time with Street Fighter, but my time with Super was enough for me to know I don't have the absurd dedication for a decent fighting game.

Whatever at them lying once again. You lost me before Arcade Edition anyway, Capcom.

Thank you to @raidenmitsuru for echoing some of my thoughts as I finished reading through the comments. While I too respect the position of those trying to defend this latest Capcom kerfuffle I think some effort could be expended to understanding, on a cursory level, why people point and lol at Capcom. I also go into this as long time Street Fighter fan, including the various SFIV iterations and a fan of watching high level play, usually on Wednesday Night Fights specifically but not solely on WNF.

My take on why people get snarky is actually well outlined in an earlier comment that attempted to break down the various updates to SFIV. It's sort of a, "can't see the forest for the trees" style of thing but the post contained a new version of SFIV every year since 2009, that's five versions including this new release here in 2013. From the more casual or outsider perspective this is just seen as Capcom, "Milking it." I can also tell you, as a person around for the SF2 version creep, of which there was also five iterations, people felt the same way on both sides of that fence too. Again, I'm a fan and back then I loved every version, including Champion Edition and SSF2 no Turbo.

When trying to understand why we see the negative reactions that we do consider that there are people not limiting their examination to SFIV but to Capcom as a whole. Capcom pulled a very similar thing with (Ultimate)Marvel Versus Capcom 3 and the "gold edition" of Resident Evil 5. They more recently started a whole new strain of foofarah with on-disc DLC in SFxT and Resident Evil 6. This long running tendency across their titles means that people tend to take a more critical eye when looking at any Capcom release. Factor in the historical long running aspect of their tendencies in regards to Capcom fighting games means and extra helping of critical-eye for Capcom fighting titles and their updates.

Now consider that folks hate being suckers and every customer that bought SFIV for $60 at launch probably had, on some level, a bit of negative reaction when SSFIV hit and was $40 for everything they already paid $60 for and a whole lot more. Then the Arcade Edition patch hit but Seth Killian told everyone it was the last patch so just chill out and don't rage at Capcom. Those same folks that were already $100 in went ahead and got themselves in another $15 deep. Yet, despite the earlier promise that Capcom had hit the final version of SFIV, here we are, another update* and another $15. Those same folks from earlier, already $115 deep, have got to be shaking their heads a bit in the face of $130 vs. jumping in now at $40**.

All of this means a meta game has developed where folks want to weigh the pros and cons and pick their time to jump in. The later they jump in the better. Some folks win out and some folks get burned but either way the Capcom update style has fostered this meta behavior. The behavior itself is based in a sort of competition, almost a Mexican Standoff, between the customer and Capcom meaning it engenders competitive and negative feelings, thus what you end up seeing in the comments is borne of these attitudes.

Sorry, I went a bit long here and I still feel like I had to cut a lot of nuance out to keep it this short but I hope it helps. I personally find it helps when, any time you find yourself wanting to say, "I can't possibly understand how someone could X..." that you actually pause for a moment and honestly try to come up with reasons. Remember that, generally, nobody is going to be impressed when you are unable to do something.

*Ignoring that there was yet another free update in between which nobody can rightly complain about from a value proposition stand point since it was free but still violated the "final version" statement but we should let it slide.

**To be fair, jumping in now also means you missed out on 5 years of playing before and that whole early adopter discussion. Not to mention the whole thing about what kind of responsibility these $100+ folks have on their end to getting their moneys worth by actually playing!

Thought about this not being on next gen when they announced it. And honestly, I get why they don't try to be on there right away. Fighting games need critical audience mass, and not enough people will necessarily invest in the new consoles till one of them proves viable. Fighting games are highly dependent on network stability for their online play to stay populated. Fighting gamers are resistant to new versions unless they're crafted carefully and faithfully; notice that they played Melee at Evo rather than Brawl despite it being on a 2-gen old system.

RPGs have a different, but equally logical set of reasons why they don't come out in a launch window.

Sometimes conservative decisions have a reasonable basis, much as we as gamers would like the big projects to commit and hit new consoles faster.

@sooty: You are the one getting your panties in a bunch about this dude. I have no problem with them making as many versions of this game as they need to, if the demand is there, god bless. But I would have hoped for at least some new characters (at least one) that we haven't seen yet. ( I know they have yet to reveal the last one.)

I feel Capcom is in a unique position right now, because they do have the number 1 fighting game, to kinda lead the way with how they distribute content for fighting games. But this just seems like filler as we wait for the next real fighting game from them.

And they are just adding the stages from SXT, right? Basically saying, yeah we know none of you want to play that game, so here is that content in a game that people actually play. So if this is a good "value proposition" to you, again, have fun. But I'd like to hold the SF series to a little bit of a higher standard than this.

On face value I was really to lol this (Crapcom, Scamcom, I'll wait for the Uber Remix edition etc...) but changed my mind after reading a comment (On gamefaqs of all places). Basically this is the best case scenario for DLC from a gamer's perspective. This adds content to a wildly popular game thats been out for several years which keeps it fresh and adds value to people who already own it. Like others have said, rather than a new full retail release, you get this and can keep on playing the game you want. MMOs have done this for a while and its refreshing to see it creeping its way into consoles.

I'll wait for Hyper Ultra Super Street Fighter IV.5: Limited Ultimate Day One Release Edition (with Digital Soundtrack) Thanks. Looks good though. Are there Dive Kicks?

GET HYPE! GET HYPE FOR SPARKLES!

@sooty: Same, I don't normally get bugged by internet reactions but the sheer ignorance is really bothering me. I don't know maybe it's because we're just coming off of Evo but I'm really excited for a new breath of freshness in the game.

No it's not. Read my post for why.

I don't understand people's angst over this, it actually annoys me and I'm not sure why.

edit: It'd be nice if these were truly new characters, as opposed to data mined from SFxT, but still, they will add more flavour to the game, in addition to the balance changes, it sort of gives the game an entirely fresh lifespan.

Again, how dare Capcom update the most popular fighting game on the planet. BASTARDS. Even if data mined from SFxT, this update is still great value, if you're not into SFIV to begin with maybe you should just shut up, because anybody with any interest in playing the game won't have issues with it.

SSFIV from 2010 represented one of the best value propositions in gaming. $40 for so much more content. I think I'll just stop trying to get people to think rationally, because haters are going to hate.

I'm gonna ask you again: Do you people think Capcom have released $60 updates to the game every year with little content added? Because that's the only reason you guys should be reacting so negatively, I broke down everything they added and how much it cost below, if people know all the facts maybe they would stop acting like Capcom killed their grandpa.

Well damn, you had me at Rolento and "doesn't require Arcade Edition"! Day 1 purchase, just might get me to shake off the dust and get back into SSIV!

This is pretty shameless!

Maybe if more people bought Darkstalkers: Resurrection and showed genuine interest in the franchise instead of complaining on the internet, Capcom might have had a reason to develop a new one.

Tekken vs. SF is still in the works, it's rumoured to be revealed at Comic-Con.

Exactly, I really do not understand why people get their panties in a bunch about Capcom. It's like they think all these updates have been $60 or something.

If it's anything like the wait from Third Strike to IV, a long fucking time! I think we'll see Darkstalkers first and maybe a Capcom vs. SNK game.

Place your bets... how many years will it take them to get to Street Fighter V?

@sooty: On top of all that it seems people already forgot about the article Patrick recently wrote that talked about how expensive it is to actually develop characters in fighting games.

Answer: ONCE, because only one of them was a retail only release, there was DLC and one free update.

People getting mad are fucking idiots.

So let's see:

SFIV, 2009 - $60, 25 or so characters, somewhat limited stages, weak online modes, only one ultra per character, few 'rushdown' characters, heavily turtle based game, god-tier version of Sagat.

SSFIV, 2010 - $40, 10 new characters: Cody, Guy, Ibuki, Makoto, Hakan, Juri, Dudley, Adon, Dee Jay, T.Hawk, 5 new stages , total re-balance update for entire cast, brand new ultras for every character, new trials, better online modes, new arcade endings. Yes, that's 1/3 of the original amount of characters in SFIV you're getting, along with 5 new stages, new ultras and better online play for 2/3 of the cost of SFIV.

SSFIV AE, 2011 - $15, 4 new characters (Yun, Evil Ryu, Yang, Oni), total re-balance

SSFIV AE v2012 - $0, total re-balance

Ultra SSFIV - $15, 6 new stages, 5 new characters, total re-balance

So why are you mad again? Yeah it'd be nice if it was free, but DLC rarely is free now. Capcom are not milking anything. Go back to buying Call of Duty or Madden annually please. Even the map packs on Call of Duty alone represent far less value than any of what Capcom have released for SFIV, re-balancing alone equals a new game competitively.

As the Skullgirls Kickstarter revealed, new characters cost a fucking lot to implement, the only reason this is even happening is probably because they're able to use assets from SFxT, I'm pretty sure Seth Killian straight up came out and said it's $1 million per character in their games. (how accurate that is who knows, but they cost a lot to make certainly)

How fucking dare Capcom freshen up the most popular fighting game in the world. HOW DARE THEY. At reasonable prices too. THOSE ANIMALS!

The levels of idiot on display in these comments is truly amazing.

@fanboy_hunter: I think your comment on that comment is the stupidest thing I've seen all day.

Calling this an expansion pack is quiet apt and one I like. I bought the AE update and will be getting this one two since SSFIV is still one of my most played games.

I think Capcom is begining to handle DLC much better and I like how they do BIG balance changes instead of a consistant little ones like NRS. I love Injustice but with the constant updates and changes there isn't really a solid meta to work with. And that will only come when there is a lul in patching. Let people try and find new technology.

I don't see how $15 for new characters which do take actual work to transfer over is such a bad deal. If you do well you can not buy it.

You seem angry. :)

Edit: also good job making a new account just to respond to me, I'm honoured!

I haven't played SFIV in a long time and I wasn't exactly on a professional level of play anyhow but like...

They're doing what really turned me off to SF when I came of an age to notice it in the first place. All the Alphas and Supers and Turbos and Ultras and it just dilutes the brand so hard. Like, you know what a person who casually plays games notices? A new goddamn number.

Some of the first podcasts on Giant Bomb were SFIV centric, so it just seems crazy that we're still iterating on the same game instead of going 'Yo. SFV: and we brought back Indestructible as the title track.'

At least you can buy it as DLC.

I don't get why so many people are angry about this update. A lot of you clearly don't even play it anyways so how does it affect you anyways? It's an expansion, getting mad at it would be like getting mad at Blizzard for releasing Mists of Pandaria. Be happy they aren't releasing full $70 games like CoD everytime they do minimal upgrades.