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How Pathfinding Works In Supreme Commander 2

Chris Taylor returns to tell you about this newfangled "flowfield" technology.

Mar. 3 2010

Posted by: Brad

In This Episode:

Supreme Commander 2

65 Comments

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eggbuerto

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Edited By eggbuerto

Pretty impressive.

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Scarabus

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Edited By Scarabus

Oh that A-star.

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MadeinFinland

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Edited By MadeinFinland

Not bad. I tried making a small RTS-style game in my InfoTech class and without knowing how to pathfind, it's a hell of a thing to program nicely.
 
Well done guys!

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Jeffsekai

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Edited By Jeffsekai

Thats amazing. I want to play this now.

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wfolse1

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Edited By wfolse1

Very cool.  I was part of a team that designed a simple, fast RTS for a large touchscreen device and designing good pathfinding solutions was an immense challenge.  We didn't come up with anything as good as this haha.

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MordeaniisChaos

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Edited By MordeaniisChaos

Woo, UW
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popies100

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Edited By popies100

I feel like I am watching in infomercial
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outerabiz

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Edited By outerabiz

sounds like he's calling it "spring commander 2"

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Obsidian

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Edited By Obsidian

Funny that the pathfinding sucked so bad in the demo.  My bombers got stuck in the mountains repeatedly, very annoying.

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shirogane

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Edited By shirogane

From a programmers perspective, that's really freakin awesome.
 
However, i don't think anybody else really cares all that much.. 
Kinda sad, cause this really is some really awesome stuff happening here.
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Milkman

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Edited By Milkman

This feels like something that should have been in RTSes for a long time.

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project343

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Edited By project343

Was "shit" really necessary? "Changes the shit out of RTS gaming!" ... like, really? :|

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Majkiboy

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Edited By Majkiboy
@Shirogane said:
" From a programmers perspective, that's really freakin awesome. However, i don't think anybody else really cares all that much.. Kinda sad, cause this really is some really awesome stuff happening here. "
I do, this is freakin awesome. And I won't be buying the game, just happy to see good improvement :D
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Jabronie

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Edited By Jabronie

  It's impressive and pleasing to see how far we've come just seeing these seemingly small changes but it does make an impression on those who play these games. Though this type of flow path finding I think we first saw in starcraft II. Not to say "SC2 DID IT FIRST" but the first time I noticed this path finding technique at least.     

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fripplebubby

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Edited By fripplebubby

That is something that should have existed a while ago, but still nice that we're finally seeing it. Still won't buy your damn game, though. 

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MatthewRorie

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Edited By MatthewRorie
@project343:  Pretty sure he says "changing the shape".
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emkeighcameron

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Edited By emkeighcameron
@project343 said:
" Was "shit" really necessary? "Changes the shit out of RTS gaming!" ... like, really? :| "
Wasn't it "shape"?
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paulunga

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Edited By paulunga
@project343 said:

" Was "shit" really necessary? "Changes the shit out of RTS gaming!" ... like, really? :| "

He said "...changes the shape of RTS gaming." SHAPE.
 
Edit: Yeah, what the other two guys said. ;)
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Luke

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Edited By Luke
@project343 said:

" Was "shit" really necessary? "Changes the shit out of RTS gaming!" ... like, really? :| "

Lol, I think he said "shape" not shit.  "Changes the shape of RTS gaming."
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minorinya

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Edited By minorinya

Curious to see how this compares to the Starcraft 2 pathfinding algorithm.

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nasher27

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Edited By nasher27

Yo dawg, this game is already out

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drwhat

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Edited By drwhat

Having worked on pathfinding before, this stuff is very cool.
 
If anyone's interested, the technology he mentioned is detailed in a paper titled "Continuum Crowds". The research project website is here.

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Stargate174

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Edited By Stargate174

YAWN

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lhaymehr

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Edited By lhaymehr

News flash!!! A game developer knows how to use multi-dimensional arrays! 
Unprecedented! An actual working algorithm! 

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Olivaw

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Edited By Olivaw

What's funny is that there are reports out there that the pathfinding sucks hard.
 
Amusing!

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ShadowSkill11

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Edited By ShadowSkill11

Who the fuck cares? Ask why he turned Supreme Commander into Command & Conquer 3.25.

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Sneakybadger

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Edited By Sneakybadger

Im actually impressed

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Crocio

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Edited By Crocio

Bah, no details on  the algorithm.

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fallen_elite

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Edited By fallen_elite
@Olivaw said:
" What's funny is that there are reports out there that the pathfinding sucks hard.  Amusing! "
From reviews? My guess is early review code.
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Cybexx

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Edited By Cybexx

So A* with flocking then? I would like to see this example mixed with Terrain and Buildings.

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AddyMac

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Edited By AddyMac

Hope Blizzard sees this.

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kwyee

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Edited By kwyee

Wow awesome! I was so impressed that i dropped my sandwich! (on to the plate, fortunately no sandwich was harmed).   Makes me interested in RTSes again

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mankvill

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Edited By mankvill

That's.......actually pretty cool.

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FunExplosions

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Edited By FunExplosions
@Fripplebubby said:
" That is something that should have existed a while ago, but still nice that we're finally seeing it. Still won't buy your damn game, though.  "
Lol. Exactly how I feel. Hope everyone takes advantage of this.
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Zelnox

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Edited By Zelnox

Quite impressive.

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Crono

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Edited By Crono

I think it is really awesome new way of handling such an old facet of the RTS genre.  That said - I am so familiar with how the old system works in nearly every game that I wonder if it is going to be confusing at first.  Anyway, looks awesome is my point.

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deactivated-607210540bdde

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@Shirogane:  Yah, pathfinding is very interesting, from pure math pov, optimal path requires you to maximize every single unit's current outcome, which is essentially solving the  Hamilton-Jacobi-Bellman equation backwardly and the Fokker-Planck equation forwardly. However this method is implicit and too slow to be used in realtime pathfinding, but traditional algorithm ended up a chaos for a large amount of units. I am really curious of how those ppl in UW managed to get such good results, since I am also a researcher on physics simulation of large scale lol
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TheIneffableBob

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Edited By TheIneffableBob
@Shirogane said:
" From a programmers perspective, that's really freakin awesome. However, i don't think anybody else really cares all that much.. Kinda sad, cause this really is some really awesome stuff happening here. "
People definitely care.
The first SupCom's pathfinding was atrocious.
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Bgrngod

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Edited By Bgrngod

Wouldn't it be easier to allow them to just walk through each other?  Bamn.  Problem solved.
 
Do they still get hung up walking around corners?

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rox360

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Edited By rox360

That's fantastic. The pathfinding was one of my biggest gripes about the first game, glad to see something done to it. The first Supreme Commander's pathfinding was almost enough to ruin the game for me, even.
 
@Bgrngod said:

" Wouldn't it be easier to allow them to just walk through each other?  Bamn.  Problem solved.  Do they still get hung up walking around corners? "
Not only would that look immensely stupid, you could abuse it a lot, too, especially in a SupCom kind of game. First of all, there'd be no reason for units to keep a formation of any kind, so a huge army would probably move in a single, thin line. It'd be hard to distinguish your units, and even worse for your opponent. Second, I'm not sure how well blockades can play out in this kind of game, but I imagine there would be some tactical value in having your own units block your opponent's path to the degree that they can't physically move through without wasting time destroying your smaller guys. And lastly, you could potentially stack units to hide how many you have and of what kind. Especially considering SupCom's experimental units that would easily be big enough to hide an entire platoon of low-tier units inside them.
 
Besides, good pathfinding will do wonders for navigating the environment efficiently, too. Even making it through a haphazardly built base can be trickier than it should be for units in this kind of game.
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Zanthox

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Edited By Zanthox

dag yo, dat looks goooood!

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Marz

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Edited By Marz

This sounds nice and all but it still doesn't solve problems of units getting caughtt up on terrain and going off on their own, since it's still happening in this game.

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singular

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Edited By singular

The "typical RTS" example seemed a bit exaggerated ^^
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Aeterna

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Edited By Aeterna

That's really impressive if it actually works like that normally.

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Zeninnnnnnnn

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Edited By Zeninnnnnnnn

My jaw fucking dropped when I saw that.  Please be real.

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Edited By RIDEBIRD

In the demo the pathfinding was absolutely terrible. I played it for less then an hour, but I had at least 30% of my units getting stuck some time or just not figuring out what to do.

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RagingLion

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Edited By RagingLion

As sciencey person that stuff seems pretty cool regardless of the game.

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Moogy

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Edited By Moogy

First trailer that actually makes me want to play the game.

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borodin

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Edited By borodin

I hated the demo but I might buy it anyway just because Chris Taylor is so damn nice!

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Edited By phrosnite

Strangely in the reviews people say that there were a lot problems with path-finding... Pity, I like GPG and Chris in particular and I'm sad to see them fail... The games is already 81% on metacritic *sad*
 
I really hope sh*t like that doesn't happen with Chaos Rising which is the RTS I'm most looking forward to.