FINAL FANTASY XVI | Prologue DEMO

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pauljeremiah

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tartyron

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I'll not be able to try until after work tonight. Anyone have impressions so far? I have played every FF except 11 and typically am hot on new mainline releases but I've no been able to muster up enthusiasm on this one, especially with the seeming shift to becomine more of a character action game (which I also enjoy things like GoW and DMC, but it's not what I go to FF for typically.) Are folks enjoying the gameplay?

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chaser324

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#3  Edited By chaser324  Moderator

I just played through the demo and thought it was great. It starts out a bit slow, but it's a solid intro to the combat and the overall tone of the game and its world/characters. By the time it was over, I was left really wanting to play more.

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Nodima

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Sadly...I'm pretty mixed on what they've shown here. The Eikon fight is basically just a rail shooter, the only color in this game appears to be grey (not even brown!) and as great an idea as casting Ralph Ineson in a prominant voice role is, his voice doesn't match the character model of Cid at all. Maybe people who don't know what he looks like will have less of an issue with that, I wonder.

The combat seems like it could be a lot of fun, although so much is happening on screen that I could also see it being kind of impossible to tell what you're supposed to be doing and just sort of brute forcing a lot of encounters. It didn't take long for me to remember which specials were for stagger and which were for damage, but between the Eikon flipping, the attack modifiers, dodge being on R1 and the fire aspect having a dash assigned to circle that sure feels like a dodge but isn't at all makes for a confusing time.

Kinda reminded me of the combat in the Forspoken, honestly.

And while I'm willing to give the story a lot of runway, especially because Koji Fox has such a reputation at this point, the climax of the prologue is laughably melodramatic and there's a surprising level of Dragon Ball Z style bullshit in the extended combat demo (the spoiler averse should probably be aware there's a decent little chunk of story in there as well) that all bundled together just seems like a bit of a garbled hodgepodge of various Very Japanese Things. Set in medieval Europe.

Mostly now I just want FFVIIR2 a lot a lot. I'll be keeping my eyes on the reviews for this one.

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pauljeremiah

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@chaser324: Did you get a massive George RR Martin vibe from the story?

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spacemanspiff00

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#6  Edited By spacemanspiff00

Every time they showed more of this game I became less interested. It just looked so generic and flashy. I reserved hope that maybe Square just didn't pick the right stuff to show.

I'm glad I was (mostly) wrong on the former.

The story and characters are absolutely enticing enough to keep you interested, while the combat is way more involved than the trailers would have you believe. Most of the fights, save for one very on rails encounter, offer a solid challenge and foundation for getting a grip on the mechanics of the battle system. I only played through the main demo so I still have the Eikon challenge to complete, but I'm optimistic about it. I really don't have much more to say about my experience. If you were mostly put off by FFXV and are hoping for a resurgence, this might be it, even if its not the traditional formula you're used to.

I have too much to play right now for this to be day one(Still only 15 hours into TOTK) but I am very much looking forward to this holding up because this demo has me on the hook. Did not expect that.

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chaser324

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#7 chaser324  Moderator

@pauljeremiah: They're definitely leaning into the M rating and this being dark fantasy - profanity, brutal violence, blood, sex. The story also does seem built around political intrigue and betrayal. We'll have to wait and see if those elements work over the course of the full game though.

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AV_Gamer

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I just finished the demo and I'm completely convinced that this might be the best Final Fantasy since FFX in terms of it being a full featured game with engaging characters, a world that is interesting, great music, and good gameplay. Speaking of gameplay, it seems like an improved version of the FFXV gameplay, but its clear there is a lot more depth to unlock in the full game. The story is right up my alley, with political intrigue, backstabbing, and emotional moments. One of the things I loved about Final Fantasy Tactics was the political story filled with shocking twist, and this was way before Game of Thrones happened. Its also what disappointed me about FFXII despite liking it overall. The war torn political story wasn't as hard hitting and vague in a lot of ways. Its clear FFXVI won't be the case.

If the full game is a good as this demo, then 2023 is shaping up to be a special year for video games. So many great games have already come out and there is still a lot more months to go.

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brian_

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I was into the demo right up until the end where things take a turn for the brutal. Maybe I've just grown soft in my old age, but that stuff really isn't what I'm looking for in my entertainment nowadays.

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Nodima

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#10  Edited By Nodima

@brian_: For me, someone who still very much is fighting against my old age by doing deep dives into Playboi Carti or whatever, it felt like it needed an editor with a strong hand. The scene gets its point across pretty quickly, only to sheepishly offer the victim an out before it emphatically pummels that out of the narrative. Meanwhile, the disembodied voices feel truly disembodied, forcing the player/audience to infer who they’re calling out to or why.

I’ve seen the prologue receive pretty universal praise so maybe I’m just being a nag but if I didn’t say it exactly this way before I found it exceptionally incoherent, a barrage of events devoid of reasons.

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tartyron

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#11  Edited By tartyron

So, I finally got around to trying the demo and....I'm surprisingly on board. This one I had no hype for at all but this fighting system is decent, if a tad simplistic, and the biggest fear I had what that the action would be too busy to parse but I was able to keep up alright. I totally see the GoT influence, which I'm still not sure about, but the story as it starts was intriguing enough. I did not like the rail shooter sections, and I really hope those are kept to a minimum.

Final Fantasy has now officially said the fuck word, which I'm not a fan of. Maybe it already had and I just didn't know. I am fine with profanity 99% of the time and certainly use it plenty but there are certain institutions I don't like to hear it from, like Star Trek and now FF, but such is life. They'll say fuck on Sesame Street soon. As to the brutality, it's no more than a rather tame episode of GoT. The end of the demo showed some monster on monster violence that was representative of something darker, but it wasn't stomach turning or anything.

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chaser324

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#12 chaser324  Moderator

@tartyron said:

I did not like the rail shooter sections, and I really hope those are kept to a minimum.

Yoshi-P has said that each of the eikon battles is unique, so I'd assume they're not all going to be like this first one.

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GabrielCantor

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@tartyron: It's funny, Stranger of Paradise was the like "comically over-the-top edgy" FF game and that had way more restraint (and effectiveness) to it's use of "fuck". I think counting the DLC it's used 3 times the entire game? And it works! 16 just feels like "well, we're adult, so that means we curse a lot right?"

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AV_Gamer

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#14  Edited By AV_Gamer

As someone who liked arcade rail shooters back in the day and the Panzer Dragoon series by Sega for the Saturn, I don't mind rail shooter segments at all. Of course it could be over done, but I doubt this will be the case in this game. I also don't have an issue with the game having a mature storyline with foul language and potential sex scenes. The fact its a Final Fantasy game doesn't matter since the name of the series was based on a desperate attempt to save a development company called Squaresoft with a hail Mary that worked, which is why the name is still used today. There was never any moral or mythical meaning behind it that made it PG friendly.

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spacemanspiff00

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#15  Edited By spacemanspiff00

At this point, Final Fantasy has been a lot of things. The more serious tone, to me, is a reaction and simply the latest evolution in a era where we get lines like "Fuck Batman." I quit GOT after season 4 because I was not convinced it was really going anywhere interesting. The jury may still be out on that one. Final Fantasy has changed enough through its iterations that ditching the more light hearted tone is kind of a breath of fresh air for me. If for no other reason than most modern Japanese RPG's I've checked out are largely the same anime, tropey, teenage nonsense again and again. Maybe it doesn't stick the further in it gets and I quit it like GOT. Maybe its the best Final Fantasy in a decade.

Sidenote: That FFVII Rebirth trailer has me more excited, however, its still an iconic game from 1997, and all Square had to do was not fuck it up. Though I guess the jury is definitely still out on whether or not this time ghost malarkey is gonna play.

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tartyron

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@gabrielcantor: I did not know Stranger of Paradice said fuck. I figured it said shit, hell, OG FF7 said shit. I only recall hearing fuck once in the FF16 demo, right at the end in a clear main story cut scene, which is why I commented on it because it was framed in a “hey, look at this” sort of way.

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Efesell

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@tartyron: Just wait til the remake gets to Cid and can unleash his true form.

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theonewhoplays

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There's quite a lot of incidental "fucks" getting throw around by and some are missable. The second part of the demo, further into the game, has quite a few. I personally found it hilarious to see Clive getting thrown around by a boss while just yelling 'Fuck". I do think some of the dialogue edges too far into cursing for cursing's sake, but I'm just happy S-E decided on a tone and seem to be sticking to it. With some nitpicks (the second demo is so darkly lit it's sometimes hard to see anything) I loved the demo and have pre-ordered. After unlocking some abilities I had a blast with the fighting, it looks great, has better-than-usual dialogue and lore, and the music is great as always.

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Dareitus

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@tartyron: A character running away from falling rubble yells "Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck!" as he runs with a subtitle to match. Hardly "adult" content but certainly more than your typical FF would allow

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Junkerman

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I really liked the demo. Standard semi-cheesy plot but I really appreciated how cinematic and robust the story telling was. Im in the camp that would rather my games be interactive movies then system based with no narrative so it was right up my alley!

It sold me on checking out the game when it releases anyway.

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styx971

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as a person who hasn't loved the more recent mainline ff games and as a person who wasn't sold on the idea of it being an action game instead of some type of turnbased thing i have to say ...that demo felt fluid as fuck and really sold me on the game. i was gonna wait on a price drop cause i really am against having a 70usd price point, but i don't want to wait and target had a you get a $10 giftcard after purchase if you preorder so ...i'm justifying it to go towards what will eventually help pay less for something else ..... needless so say i'm really looking forward to it now ... also i'm not gonna lie ben starr on the gb couch last week really helped get me hyped about it too better than any of the actual pr of the game did. ... heres to the dualsense causing semi crippling hand pain ( tho Somehow it didn't when i played ishin earlier this yr? so fingers crossed i'm ok now??) i woul still rather play this on my pc onestly but at least it gives my launch ps5 a rare purpose.

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slax

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@av_gamer:I think A Game of Thrones came out in '96 while Final Fantasy Tactics came out in '97, but I get what you are saying.

I played the demo and at the beginning was not feeling it. Between the eikon fight right off the jump that was visually dark, felt like an homage to Gandalf fighting the Balrog a little tooooo much, and was pulling a bit too much from the Sony prestige playbook of big set-piece that you have control over but you largely watch rather than play, it doesn't start strong. And then you get a bunch of people saying Proper Nouns in some admittedly beautiful cut scenes, with some more holding forward to walk before it feels like the game even starts. I know this all doesn't take long, and there is some table-setting here, but part of me wonders if they thought this was the exciting stuff to get people into the game before they go back for the tutorial and it had the opposite effect on me, because once you go back to the tutorial I found myself enjoying it much more.

I think the combat works well (the controls take some getting used to, I tried switching to the other scheme and it helped with some things, but the quickly hit fire after every physical hit thing is hard to do with most button combinations, wondering if that gets easier, or if that's just damage that will be missed on my play through unless I get some controller for my PS5 with back buttons) the early story is good enough that I am curious to see more. It certainly isn't hiding it's influences, which makes it a bit predictable (at least in the political intrigue part, maybe less the magical boy part), but it still seems to be done well enough. I dropped off FFVII Remake though over half-way through, so maybe I'll just get burnt again. Who knows!

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TheRealTurk

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I have to admit, I did not feel the demo. It was really intent on grinding my gears in very specific ways. That whole opening is paced extremely poorly. It's generally one of my pet-peeves that gameplay sequences where all you are doing is just pressing forward on the stick should either be a cutscene or just cut entitley. It's the video game equivalent of "this could have been in an email." The problem with that is that there are already an inordinate amount of cutscenes going on so you might not actually play for the first 20-30 minutes if they did that. It's not quite Zenosaga bad, but it was definitely getting there.

Also, not digging the combat a whole lot. It definitely different, but it seemed really, really basic and I felt like most of the attacks lacked a satisfying sense of impact. Plus, the camera was absolutely atrocious. It was so slow and didn't focus on what you were trying to attack most of the time. I didn't play around with the settings much, so maybe there are some options in there, but I could definitely see it being a problem if fights get chaotic at all.

It made me wish Square would get off this "we must make an action RPG" train they've been on the last several years. Someone needs to tell them there's nothing wrong with a good old-fashioned turn-based system. It's what the series came up on and it still works damn well for Dragon Quest. Outside of the FFVII Remake, Square has shown no inclination they're very good at action combat design anyway.

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AtheistPreacher

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I've still been so involved with Diablo 4 that I hadn't tried this demo yet. Downloading it now, will be interested to see how I feel about it. I don't see myself buying it right away, not before I'm Diablo'ed out, but if I like it enough then I'll buy it down the road sometime, maybe with the first price drop.

The thing I'm most interested in is how the combat feels. On the one hand, I have been known to enjoy the Tales games quite a bit (especially Vesperia), and their combat is more skewed toward action. I also still enjoy a good turn-based system like, say, Persona. But the combat systems for FF12, FF13, and FF15 (I was never interested in the online entries at all) have all been this weird, sort of half-assed action that felt like an unsatisfactory fusion of the two styles. I'm hoping I like this better. If not, it'll be another FF I skip entirely. I really haven't fully engaged with any of them since FFX, which is more than two decades old now.

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TheRealTurk

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@atheistpreacher: On the basis of the demo, it's very far away from Tales combat. Particularly Arise, which I actually like quite a bit. They're just too stuck in between the old and new. They want to ditch turn-based combat, but they don't really want to commit to making a good action game.

In fairness to the demo, it was an early slice of the game, so maybe things get more complex, but I just don't see this being very satisfying. It really does feel like they were going for "baby's first action game." The problem is, I don't think that's going to really make anyone happy. The hard-core RPG folk will probably still feel overwhelmed. If you're an action person, it will lack the depth of something like a Nioh or DMC.

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AtheistPreacher

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OK, well I've played just a bit of it, and have now been called by friends to do more D4 co-op, so I will get back to it later. Right now have only made it through the Marlboro fight.

Unfortunately the cutscenes still seem to have that stilted quality that so often infects video games. Some of it is probably due to localization issues, but some isn't. E.g., that early scene in the castle with people talking around a table was painful to watch because there was so much unnatural dead silence between lines. And some of the VA itself--perhaps due to bad direction--seems only middling at best.

Gameplay-wise, I was immediately annoyed at not being able to fully customize my buttons. They only allow three preset configs, and all of them seem unintuitive to me. I think the worst thing is that all three have "lock-on" on either L1 or L2, which seems mad. Most games over the best decade or more have trained me to go for R3 for lock-on. I guess I'll get over it eventually, but c'mon guys, just let people customize their buttons, this should not be a hard thing to do.

Overall, combat so far seems... fine? Not amazing, but not bad. I expect it will get slightly more complex as I unlock more abilities, but we'll see. I actually don't think it's super far off something like a Tales--at least the older entries like Vesperia, which mostly consisted of mashing the attack button and ending with some sort of TP-using finisher. The system here of having perfect dodges and the little phoenix-dash-to-enemy thing actually makes it a bit more involved than that, though I do hanker for more satisfying Tales-like combo-enders that aren't on long cooldowns.

I did find it weird that they encouraged you to intersperse your melee combo with magic attacks, and yet half the time the magic attack just didn't seem to work. But if there's some sort of replenishing MP meter, I don't see it? Which makes it just feel really unresponsive a lot of the time. Possibly I'm missing something very basic here.

Anyway, I'll get back to it later on tonight. Based purely on the small bit I've played so far, it's a game I'd consider picking up on sale, but would not pay full price for. We'll see if the rest of the demo shifts my opinion.

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AV_Gamer

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#27  Edited By AV_Gamer

The reviews are out and they are mostly positive, even from Gamespot. That is all I need to know based on the me liking the demo a lot. I probably won't get this at 70 dollars, but I will definitely get it the moment it goes on sale later this year around the Fall.

This and Final Fantasy VII: Rebirth which is 2 disc coming next

FF is back it seems.

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AtheistPreacher

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#28  Edited By AtheistPreacher

OK, I've finished both the demo and the "Eikonic Challenge."

Interesting that the latter starts with two of the assist items equipped. I took off the one that made dodging way easier, but left on the auto-dog one, since there seemed to be enough going on that I didn't feel the desire to manage my companion's attacks as well. Admittedly, keeping that easy-dodge thing on seems like a really fun way to put the game on easy mode. I can see myself putting that thing on when I want to really coast and feel like a badass.

Anyway, that on-rails fire Eikon fight was... really boring. Pretty to look at, but half the time I couldn't see enough to aim well past all the debris etc., and it really gives you so little to do--just move a cursor and shoot, really, which made it really unengaging, gameplay-wise--that I'd rather the entire thing was just a cutscene. I don't think there's necessarily any problem with a game having, as @therealturk puts it, Xenosaga levels of cutscenes, but if you're going to do that, at least let me eat a snack while I'm watching it instead of making me do "gameplay" so boring that it amounts to "tap X to win."

On that note, the whole "cinematic attack" and "cinematic dodge" thing... man, that's a little on the nose to call them that, don't you think? And I have basically the same criticism of the mechanic that I had for the fire Eikon fight. If you're going to do these elaborate pre-canned animations during boss fights, then fine, I really don't mind it at all. But why give the player something like five full seconds to hit a button rather than just let the characters seamlessly do the thing, without cluttering the screen with a circular meter and the words "Cinematic Attack!"? I mean, last year's God of War Ragnarök had these same sorts of pre-canned animations in the middle of boss fights--e.g., the first fight against Thor--but it didn't feel the need to make you press a button to make you do it or clutter the screen with UI.

In its favor, I'll say that the "Eikonic Challenge" part of the demo did show off the combat to better advantage. I'd complained about the fact that Clive early on only has one special attack on a long cooldown, which didn't feel very good. But this part of the demo gave him three Eikons at once with two attacks each, or six cooldowns to cycle between. Easier to get into a good-feeling flow when you have more cooldown attacks to play with. In general I prefer to not have to cycle between move sets; part of me wishes they just had a Tales-like MP system for this stuff and that you could just pick four attacks to equip onto the face buttons rather than needing to constantly switch, but... eh. It's fine. I'll live.

I'll echo @therealturk's sentiment that the camera is bad. I did do a few things to it: I increased the horizontal sensitivity a notch, and toggled on an option that supposedly kept new lock-on targets on-screen. But the problem is that the game only keeps the target minimally on-screen, up to the very edge, rather than centered on your screen, so that even if you're locked on to something, you still have to adjust it more than you should need to. I also couldn't find a way to cycle targets reliably, I was just tapping L1 and hoping it picked the ones I wanted, e.g. the healers that need to be killed first. Have these devs really not played any of the Souls or Nioh games? Because whatever else you might say about those games, their lock-on cameras mostly get the job done.

I did feel that the story and performances got a little better in the later portions than my initial impression suggested. Some of the early bits seem inexplicably bad. Or maybe it's more that they seem to struggle with making conversations involving larger groups of characters seem natural. When a scene involves only two or three characters, they do better. I guess that's simply easier to do, for obvious reasons.

Overall, eh, it seems fine. I remain uninterested in buying it at full price. Maybe when it drops to half, but even then, I'm not actually sure. I got the FF7 remake as a Christmas present and still haven't felt moved to try it. I'd say I'm slightly more interested in this one, but it's still a fairly tepid interest.

EDIT: I think part of my problem is that I can't help but compare this thing to God of War Ragnarök, especially since I recently finished the latter's NG+ (added to the game in a patch 2.5 months ago), and FFXVI does not do well in that comparison. GoW has better combat, better writing, better performances. There's actually some pretty deep irony in that for me, since I never liked the original GoW (2005) largely because I thought it suffered in comparison to the gameplay of DMC3 (also 2005). And here we are, eighteen years after GoW1, with some devs who had worked on DMC games making FFXVI, and this time it's the new GoW titles that are making it look bad. Whoda thunk it? But yeah, pretty sure that if the newer GoW games didn't exist, I would've been more into this FFXVI demo than I am.

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Efesell

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I didn't bother with the demo because I knew I was going to playing it minute 1 anyway so... yeah I'm enjoying it a great deal.

But I'm already a long supporter of Creative Business Unit III.

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Junkerman

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Really liking the game so far, especially the sound track!

Its giving me really good Guardians of the Galaxy vibes in that its a mostly linear single player with a narrative like a lot of the gems from the 360 era.

Just show me spectacles! No more open worlds where Ive spent 12 hours wandering around before the next story beat appears.

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TheRealTurk

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Now that I'm some ways into the game, I'm struck by just how dated this game feels. Everything about it feels like it might have been good 5-7 years ago, but now it just feels old. I can rattle off several games (God of War, Elden Ring, BotW/TotK just to name a few) that absolutely eat FFXVIs lunch when it comes to things like story, gameplay, quest-design, or world-building.

It's kinda depressing actually. FF used to be the series that was way at the forefront of gaming. It was the thing you point to and say "this is what gaming can be." Now it feels a bit like Disney-era Star Wars - reduced to trying to mine a bunch of fan-service moments in lieu of coming up with anything new or exciting.

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Efesell

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I think this games great, the combats a ton of fun I'm enjoying the story quite a bit. All of my major complaints with the game could be easily addressed with patches.

Needs a motion blur toggle patched in cause it's kickin' my ass.

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theonewhoplays

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#34  Edited By theonewhoplays

The motion blur was so bad I actually got headaches, but turning VRR off in the system settings helped. With it off quality mode seems the best option for now even if I enjoy the 60 fps battles more.

I got past the chapter with the boss fight from the demo, and unfortunately my biggest issue with the game is its story, characters and dialogue. None of the emotional beats hit after the demo, they made some really weird decisions wrt the pacing, and I just don't like how they handle most of the characters (especially the female ones who seem to be written by Japanese men in their 40s trying to write a 'serious' story while still keeping all the overdone anime tropes) and feel it's really hard to care about anything that's happening. Most of the time it's just dumb, and not endearingly so. The voice acting doesn't help - I laugh during pretty heavy moments because Clive sounds so ridiculous. The facial animation seems stiffer than FF7R, possibly because of the less cartoony art style? And the game looks so damn dark I can hardly tell what's happening half the time.

Anyway, the fighting is still fun, and has some semi-hidden depth I really enjoy, so I'm having pretty fun so far. I just wish the game were slightly harder since you could probably do fine while just mashing square. I will check out the arcade mode later where you will get extra points for actually making use of your abilities.

Oh and I just can't get over that they thought having other than white people would be unrealistic, while I just took part in a kaiju battle and have a 13-year old giant dog as a party member. I have them the benefit of a doubt that there would be some kind of justification or theme, but so far there isn't a trace. I guess that's part of what makes the game so, so dumb.

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Efesell

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@theonewhoplays: I'm really struggling to think of a moment where the lighting is noticeably dark, though I didn't fiddle with any of those settings at all.

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theonewhoplays

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@efesell: Yes, could be my setup I suppose. The worst has been the castle, the second part of the demo.

The section after the first big boss fight has been a lot more enjoyable to me so far. Nice outdoor areas in full sunlight, and the plot has just focused on the main cast.

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Nodima

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I’m starting to feel like I need to buy this game tonight just to find out why some people have such strong opinions about it. Especially as a guy who left the demo with some strong opinions about it.

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AV_Gamer

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#40  Edited By AV_Gamer

I haven't played the full game yet, but as I've mentioned, I enjoyed the demo and believe I will enjoy the full game after I get it. And while some of the complaints people have about the game could be legit, the Yoshi P BS about past European culture definitely is, I also think there are anti-Final Fantasy people who are just looking for reasons to hate on the game because they were never fans of the series to begin with and was hoping the game would get negative reviews and feedback instead of most of the mainstream critics and players saying its a great game, one of the best in the series in a long time. I'll find out myself later this year, but that's what I'm seeing so far in terms of the response to this game's release.

What I find interesting is how a lot of people are comparing it to FFXII and are now saying its the best game in the series, when it faced huge backlash when it came out, with most people calling it a bootleg MMO clone. So we'll see how this game's legacy hold up years from now.

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theonewhoplays

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The game does feel very old in its design, but as someone who loves the Yakuza games I don't mind. I also like that each city usually only has 1-3 sidequests that, while uninspired in their designs, at least are used to flesh out the world and various concepts. So they don't just feel like filler.

About 8 hours in I have a complaint. The game is extremely one-track in its combat focus. The open areas give you no reason to explore. You can find a chest or two but they don't contain anything excititing. The weapon/armor upgrades are pure stat boosts with no status effects. The dungeons have zero puzzle elements. There are no minigames. So you better LOVE the combat system because there is literally nothing else to break up the constant fighting except the occasional village. It's pretty long between new abilities and you can only equip two for each Eikon, so your options for varying your approach is pretty limited at this stage.

You could say Devil May Cry is the same, but after 8 hours I would almost be at the end. FFXVI is a different beast so the lack of variation so far is a bit of a bummer. The latest dungeon would have been PERFECT for some light puzzle solving but was just a series of battle arenas. One of the great things about GoW 2018 is that the world is littered with small puzzles to break up the constant fighting.

That said, the combat is fun and responsive, and I look forward to any new ability I will get.

@av_gamer: There are a lot of similarities to both FFXII and FFXV. One of them being that you barely check in on the villains at all and that 90% of the political intrigue is far removed from the main characters. It's much more of a personal story focusing on Clyde.

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natzal

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#43  Edited By natzal

After 8 hours or so I am still lukewarm on this game but want to like it more than I am currently.

Yes, the combat is action-focused and not a bother to me, but it feels very stilted. Attacks don't chain like I thought they would coming from DMC devs. 8 hours in and no launch attack yet (notwithstanding Torgal help that doesn't work all the time)!

It almost feels like Guijan 3 or other Chinese games that have come to the west. And If not for the cinematic flair of the Eikons and the pedigree of the series as a whole, I would even say it feels almost "b game-ish" in its execution.

My biggest gripe however is no overworld and lore that is dependent on text dumps (good lore dumps mind you). Meaningful side quests in an overworld would have helped flesh out the world in a much more interesting way. I didn't expect this from Yoshi-P who won me over in FF14 (even played just before "when it gets good" Heavensward but ran out of free time) and crafted an overworld that was beautiful to explore.

I hope things change but as it stands right now it's a fine entry (a 7 or 7.5 to quantify)

FF6, 9, 10, 12, and 7 remake are my favorites for reference.

P.S I love to swear, no fucks given here

Edit: FF 12 not 13. Big oops

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Efesell

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#44  Edited By Efesell

@natzal: It's not a traditional Launch attack but charging up your magic is one of the starter abilities and if enemies are small enough to be launched they will be and you can follow up with the Phoenix dash to do some midair. It's limited until some more Eikons come in though.

You do bring up my actual one complaint with the combat though and that's... man what is even up with Torgal who came up with this really undercooked Dog Micro alongside what is otherwise really well tuned combat.

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natzal

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@efesell:

Thanks for the info! I swear I've used this before but maybe strictly on boss fights. Perhaps because magic is for the most part ineffectual and a spam for cooldowns to replenish.

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TheRealTurk

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@natzal: The launches (and combat in general) are weird in this game. There's a lot of it that feels inconsistent in a way that makes me think they left out some pretty fundamental tutorial messages. Or the game's just broken. For example, Torgal does *way* more stamina damage if you use him after a perfect dodge. I suspect his launch might work in the same way - it will either only work, or at least be more reliable, after a perfect dodge. Then again, some of the Eikon abilities that are very specifically described *as launchers* work maybe 50% of the time. So, who knows?

Having said that, I will admit that I very rarely use the launches because it sort of feels like there's no point. It's not like your attacks are any more powerful in the air and there doesn't seem to be any increased damage benefit from juggling enemies. For example, I haven't been able to bounce enemies into additional attack strings, and cooldowns don't recharge any faster because you rack up large combo numbers.

Like I said, it's weird. Maybe I've played too much Nioh and God of War, but I keep getting to points in fights where I would expect a thing to happen that then just . . . doesn't happen.

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Efesell

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Every new Eikon I've gotten has made me appreciate the combat more which is why I do think it's kind of a shame how long you go in between getting them. I think it would have probably been better for each of your core moves to have one more upgrade tier where it expands the move instead of just have one upgrade and then the Master, as it is I find that I just end up sitting on a ton of ability points waiting for the next Eikon to unlock.

Also the Eikon's "Ultimate" moves should all have been tied to Limit Break or some other method of use beyond your normal equippable move slots because as nice as some of them are I've yet to find a situation where I'd sacrifice any of my faster cooldowns for the One Big Hit.

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noboners

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@efesell: I totally agree about the ultimates, and really expected them to be more akin to a limit break. As for saving ability points, at least it's free to respec!

I'm still pretty early as I still only have two eikons, but this game is scratching the itch that Bayonetta 3 unfortunately left behind.

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Nodima

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After much introspection, some very profitable shifts and and a suitable amount of after hours indulgence, I bit the bullet. I also decided to replay the prologue featured in the demo, both to see how much my lessons from the extended bonus bit applied as well as earn the trophies I'd heard rumor I'd miss if I just jumped in from my demo save.

The nicest thing they could've possibly done, they did - when it came to the first combat tutorial, they asked me if I wanted to skip it because I'd done it already. Neat!

And yes, the not-Marlboro turned out to be far less of a slog when I could remember Eikon abilities (or, that I had the one, anyway), tried to dial in the timing on the magic combo and generally treated it less like I thing I was simply supposed to Mash Attack On® as in my "favorite" childhood Final Fantasy memories.

I'll save my thoughts on the story until I see what I haven't seen, though I'm expecting to laugh my way through most of it given my time with the demo (and, perhaps unfairly, due to the high praise everyone but journalists and Giant Bomb lifers seem eager to shower this game with) but I do want to point out that, as somebody with Caravella Syndrome...this Active Time Lore thing is a real bother. I all but ignored it during the demo, and I'm not sure I personally care (or am even supposed to experientially care) about what happens during this prologue, but the amount of times I've paused these cutscenes only to notice there's a new bit of lore I can read in the ATL menu has immediately brought to mind Final Fantasy IX's Active Time Events...

Which are, or were, an exponentially more interesting way of delivering esoteric exposition than what this is. I'm never going to stop pausing these cutscenes to read codex entries, and unless the format of this system changes substantially as the game opens up...I can't see how anyone thought this was a good idea. Other than, of course, remembering that most people who play games skip all the dialogue anyway.

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Efesell

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@nodima: There is a proper sit-down codex that is basically an in-game wiki if you ever wanted to actually read lore. The ATL is there purely as a "who are you again?" or if some specific thing catches interest in the context of that scene only.

The name is very silly but as a feature I like it quite a bit. The action games version of highlighting important terms that come up in dialogue trees.

Although I can't really see the comparison to FFIX. Those were mostly just "What's everyone else doing?" as opposed to a tool for exposition.