Mo' LittleBigProblems

As anyone who has presided over an internet community can tell you, the key to success lies in moderation. Allowing people to express themselves is essentially what it's all about, but it needs to be within a reasonable limit, a precarious balance that can be difficult to strike. This has been a hard-learned lesson for Sony, which has been having a hell of a time in LittleBigPlanet with the copyright-infringing nature of Mario's Law--the rule which dictates that, whenever a game allows for user-created content, it will be used to recreate some portion of World 1-1 from Super Mario Bros.

I can't really fault Sony for being nervous about potential for litigation that's inherent to LittleBigPlanet's level editor, though it seems that someone has gotten a little overzealous with what's getting pulled. Kotaku most recently reported that Sony has put the kibosh on the user-made level Azure Palace, a move that has stoked the fires of frustration within the LittleBigPlanet community. Here's a quick run-through of the level, which seems like one of the better showcases for LittleBigPlanet that I've seen. See if you can spot the problem, something I'm having a hard time doing.

Jesus Ryan, too much news too late in the night. Go take a well deserved nap :P

Someone over at the Little Big Planet forums said that the Azure Palace level is actually back up now. No word on the World of Colour level that got pulled around the same time though.

That level's awesome looking , whats the point of me hanging onto my copy of the game after beating story mode if i cant play super awesome levels like this one. Cause boy does this level look awesome.

All of this is really sapping the wonder out of LittleBigPlanet. The only reason I picked it up is to see all the crazy stuff the community throws out there but if a considerable portion of that stuff is being destroyed for no clear reason I may just stop playing it entirely.

I noticed World of Colour was pulled as well. This really frustrates me. How can I trust Sony with my creations if they have a chance of being deleted for no reason? Sony hasn't given us clear guidelines on what is right and what is not. World of Colour?! Come on, that was a magnificent creation and I couldn't possibly find anything offensive or copyright infringing in that masterpiece. What's worse is that I have spent over 30 hours creating video game music levels for the community to enjoy. It's not a matter of IF my levels will get pulled, but WHEN. In the meantime, I'll ditch the creation aspect of the game (which is half the fun) until the rules are clearly defined. 

I'm pretty sure Sony pulls content to analyze it and then puts them back up because there are a lot of levels that have been pulled but were put back up.

I actually couldn't spot the problem, but that level was awesome :D

I'm baffled at how Sony have the right to remove content from the level creators and get away with it. I can understand (to a certain extent) protection rights for others' intellectual property, but don't these user generated levels have a ceratin degree of their creator's own intellectual property in them?

I guess I'm just whining since this is an opportunity Sony missed for me to buy into the PS3. I'd be quite hacked off after spending hours (or days in the case of the level footage) on a level to get it deleted from my own console.

Plagueseason, if the online is so shitty and unplayable, then how in the hell do I have the trophy where you have to COMPLETE 150 user made levels, and I got it 2 weeks ago.  Pretty hard to accomplish that on unplayable servers....

again this game shoulda been released for PC instead.

The over the top moderation from Sony has me suspending my purchase of Little Big Planet, as well as the purchases of just about everyone I've spoken too regarding these newest crop of issues. I remember Cliffy "Dude Huge" B, talking in an interview a while back about the pros and cons with the current line of consoles. While he was mostly happy for having mod support in Unreal Tournament 3 for Ps3, I did agree with his statement that the Ps3 for being "open" and more flexible versus the rigid nature of Xbox Live.

The recent Sony moderation over Little Big Planet is an amazing step, *ahem* leap backward in regarding to user generated content. While the PC has had it's run-ins with copyright issues regarding mods of popular properties, let's face it. LBP is ridiculously tame. I'm not seeing any highly produced, lavish, over the top remake of Fallout 3 in LBP. I'm sorry, it's not going to happen.

It's also worth mentioning that you can't eat your cake and have it too (mmm. cake.). Your giving a product that revolves around users generating their own content. Now your going to suppress all forms of what you deem is inappropriate from a copyright point of view. After watching the video for Azure Palace, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're not ready to do that. Instead it seems you've unnecessarily frustrated your customers, (and future ones, which is double bad.) and I'm sure you have ticked off your rare supply of exclusive developers. This is just bad all the way around.

that was the greatest thing ive ever seen!!!!!

that was amazing

That level is amazing...

Azure Palace is back up Mr. Davis. Turns out it was just being "moderated" i.e checking to see if it was infringing on anything etc. So NOT pulled completely.

Although, World of Colour has been moderated...though probably will be back up soon like Azure Palace did.

One things for sure, Sony needs a better way of going about moderating levels.

Its back on. Good for Giant Bomb to make Sony looks bad.

Late story. But I hope this article gives Sony even more trouble for that moderation process. They're beng too strict.

World of color, Azure Palace, both gone?

Seriously WTF.

How Sony or MM handles this is gonna be an example of how we should think about either Sony or MM on these type of matters from now on.

Being optimistic, the case may just be that there is a code in play that if enough people report a level for whatever reason it just gets pulled for no reason. This would be the most cost effective way to have a moderating service in play without having people actually do much work(hence its cheap). If that is the case then they should obviously abandon this code by having another update of some kind.

BUT, that would only be true, if a new patch was released and shit like this stops happening. Or Sony/MM comes out with a statement saying my bad we wrote bad code.


However, if we start seeing levels similar to world of colors and azure palace offered as a DLC, then Fuckin Bullshit.
If the actual reason was some fake blood around or something, Fuckin Bullshit.


Seriously, Sony, why do you keep insisting on shooting yourself in the foot?

I don't think litigation against Sony or MM is likely for content resembling copyright material. It would be a PR nightmare for the plaintiff, which could be viewed as stomping all over the game community for no real reason. There is a certain, albeit fucking huge, amount flexibility the core market will support before a backlash. Remember, enough angry people means the potential loss of a lot of money.

yeah this really pisses me off....the entire spark to LBP is effectively monitored in and out with Gestapo efficiency.  It's not just copyright content, it looks like anything decent gets scrubbed.  Hey, well at least they didn't take the '11161$% Trophies here!' levels.

I haven't touched the game since this has started happening.  I know Sony/MM are thinking they already bagged the sale so why not just lean towards the (overzealous) safe side with these things, but come on.  This just breeds ill will with what could have been one of the most dedicated fan bases ever.

Does anyone think that maybe sony is being devious enough to pull great levels down in order to put them into an level expansion pack and maybe some extra $$$ with no effort on their part? Could this be why they changed the terms and conditions not too long ago???

If this happens I might trade in all my sony products for X-box and windows enabled game products.

I've been having great fun on LBP - it's a great game. Any problems with the content moderation or online reliability are surely only temporary at worst, so I don't see the need to worry unduly.

This killed my urge to buy this game, had fun with the beta too....

Davis.. it is the feel good game of the year.

Please fix this article since Azure palace is back up.. If I want propaganda ill go to FOX

Good to hear this being up again since it looks really nice and must have taken tons of time to make. If many levels like this get pulled without any obvious reason it will decrease the sales of the game for sure.

What about music?  Where does the music for these levels come from?  The game probably has some songs but can you import your own?  THat might be a problem too.

If Azure Palace was back up, what caused them to bring it down in the first place?

Azure Palace looks huge.  With all the growing pains this game is going through, I am still excited about the prospect of obtaining a PS3 just for this game.

If I honestly had to guess a reason as to why this level got pulled for possible review, I would have to guess that it might have been for either the music, the fact that it uses a sound effect from Super Mario World (a ding that is heard several times in the level), or the fact that the sword is glowing like a lightsaber... And everyone knows how litigious George Lucas is. :)

Someone on youtube mentioned that there was a pac-man shaped rock at 2:20. That would be the most stupid reason to pull a level, haha.

I think they wanted to check the music and maybe sound effects and the level was offline for that time. Or they actually pulled it for real and put back after the people started to complain.

So, the music was imported from some other source, maybe?  I can see that being a problem, although I think the music was excellent and seemed to fit the mood of the level perfectly.

That is some genuinely amazing user created content.  I cant believe Sony insists on shooting itself in the foot like this.

I said this about the other article and I'll say it about this one: These seem liked crossed wires. I haven't ever been unable to play The Azure Palace. I played it when it was still new a few weeks ago and I played it after it was "pulled". I'm almost certain these are just server errors. I haven't tried all those PS3 vs. 360 levels that people say have been pulled, but the major ones like this and the Gradius level are there and have always been playable for me and my friends. LBP has had horrible server errors and the servers are still going down like three times a week so that might be what's preventing people from loading up some of these levels.

A large company like Sony, with all its wisdom (attorneys) should have seen this coming. I mean you can't put something as ambitious as LittleBigPlanet and expect everyone to just play nice. Of course people are going to express themselves with what they hold dear inside of them, and Sony is punishing you for it? Personally, I would have liked if Sony would email the creators of the levels being taken down and explain why. I'm sure that there are other inspirations out there that don't infringe on any intellectual property but it's going to be pretty tough. Mostly everything we will see in the future may have something from another intellectual property. It's not stealing, it's just because there are so much out there that it's a tease not to draw comparisons. Unfortunatly Sony doesn't realise that. And unfortunately LittleBigPlanet will be flooded with a lot of pissed off users. Bad move from Sony because they need more quality titles on the PS3 and this is just going to decrease sales.

Maybe Sony / MM should moderate levels before they go online. I'm pretty sure Youtube uses the same method for it's videos. Though there will be a wait before it goes up, it would ensure that nothing is wrong with the level. If so, then they could suggest changes to the level design.

OR

Completely remove aspects of the level creator that prevent a direct representation of a level from a game. Take that mario level for example. The Azure Palace level clearly doesn't have anything that directly resemble anything taken from a game it has similar combat elements to say SOTC or Zelda but it doesn't look like it at all.

They should employ a "moderation-before-publish" format, there are downsides, but at least we wont have a situation where a level goes up, everyone loves it and it goes down because Sony/MM forgets to take a look at it.

i'll check later if both of those levels (World of Colour / Azure Palace) are back on the network. clearly that these two very popular levels should be pulled for good. Going by what other giantbombers have said, that the levels are back up purely because of medration...


-EDIT-

Azure Palace is now online (UK) nothing yet from World Of Colour. Though sifting through the pages, they're a lot of levels with direct references to films and games outside, and they haven't been touched since the game's release...

This shit is why I always suggest people buy themselves a nice used copy of LittleBigPlanet, these fucks don't deserve our money. I loved that level.

Maybe it's the red fumes from the Jetpack, underwater they kinda look like blood?

Both World of Color and Azure's Palace are back online. They were back up before this article went up.
The problem is not Sony/MM, the problem are griefers flagging these excellent levels for no other reason than to be dicks.
So the levels come down for a day or two for review, and then they go back up. What Sony/MM need to do is punish the dick heads.
Even the Ghostbuster level was brought down, but has been restored. I just played it last night.

Too bad :/

Censorship and griefers ruining everything for everyone?  Not very shocking, this has been going on for centuries.

I'm also quite saddened and frustrated by the LittleBigPlanet moderation. They are really gong OTT with it all, pulling almost everything for no real reason. It's going to have an adverse effect on the community too, with many less people choosing to create levels for the game in the first place, just in case all their hard work goes down to nothing

It's back now.

that level is amazing. I cant believe those fuckers deleted a work of genius like that for no reason. jeff is right, i would buy the game on the evidence of levels like that

I was just able to play this level no problem. I don't know where people are seeing all of these deleted levels? I played this level, the gradius level, and the Sweet Child of Mine level with no problem. The only one's I couldn't find were the Mario 1-1 level and the Mortal Kombat theme level

Wow, that level was amazing. I couldn't think of one reason why this would possibility be taken down.

Too slow Ryan, I know you like to slam on Little Big Planet and all, but you missed your window.

I guess this is how they do it. Take the level down for review and if they find nothing wrong they put it back up.

The problem now isn't the moderation but the idiots flagging levels they are envious over or just to be dicks.

I wonder if my IRAQ War themed level will be pulled down.

(does anyone know how to make score bubbles hang in mid-air? Is it a special bubble you have to collect in the SP?)

This is one great level, too bad they took it done.

Snipes,