Battlefield 3 is DICE's third numerical installment in the Battlefield franchise. It features a single player and co-operative campaign, as well as an extensive multiplayer component.
@Donos: I am arguing about the quick knife. Quick knife is more or less an automatic action for veterans of FPSes. Adding another step makes it harder for the brain to make it automatic. It also poses a certain risk for the one wanting to use the knife as you wont be able to run around ready to shoot and at the same time be ready for stabbing. Quick Knife dont have this dilemma.
Maybe its just me, but knife kills should be rare and hard to pull off to reflect that you are going up against guns using a knife.
@Pumpe: Would you stop and think for a second? No competent player would equip a knife to be "ready to stab". They would wait until the last possible moment before needing it, then equip the knife and use it, exactly like quick knife. The only possible scenario where you would want to equip a knife is if, in a direct fight at point blank range, the knife is more powerful than a gun. However, you just said knives should be less powerful than guns (plus there is a melee counter system if someone tries to knife you from the front), so this scenario is out the window.
With quick knife, you don't have the option to be "ready for stabbing," rather you're never ready to stab, so we solve this balance problem. The only remaining argument you have for equippable knife is that a single mouseclick makes the decision-making harder. If it makes a difference, that difference is so small as to be worthless. When someone runs out of ammo, switches to pistol, and continues shooting that's a weapon switch, sighting, aiming, and clicking a dozen times. And yet everyone does it, and I certainly find the first key and right-click automatic. Are you saying key and left click would be different?
@big_jon: pfffft. No, if I was going to use an M1 Abrams, I would've said it. I'm going to be using an Abrahms instead. Its a real indie tank, not in the mainstream yet ... I'm not surprised you haven't heard of it. e.e
Why do people feel they need to add music to their videos? For BETA's I just want to see the gameplay and maybe even the sounds, the music ruins everything.
Fuckkkkkkkk. I am getting that urge to drop money on a new rig. I must be patient and wait until next summer. I really should avoid this game to keep that goal alive.
Why do people feel they need to add music to their videos? For BETA's I just want to see the gameplay and maybe even the sounds, the music ruins everything.
Why do people feel the need to do lip-sync videos and upload it to youtube for all to see? The answers to both these questions will be really similar.
Yay 5 hours of coding complete! Now I can go get breakfast!
Random thing about the alpha footage, has anyone else noticed some occasionally buggy reload animations? On one of the AK reloads, it seems to work fine usually, but occasionally the magazine magically teleports into the gun a second before the person's hand gets there. I'm not really complaining (I know, it's an alpha, blah blah) but it makes me wonder exactly how these animations work. I would've thought a reload was a single canned sequence, not seperate animations that can fall out of sync. On the other hand, I guess that makes more sense if reloading already has to generate a new magazine object to leave on the ground. maybe it's just generating the new magazine in the gun a bit early?
Come to think of it, a lot of EA shooters seem to have buggy reloads. I know Crysis and Bad Company 2 have a lot of issues with disappearing magazines and such.... SO INTERESTING!
@Pumpe: Would you stop and think for a second? No competent player would equip a knife to be "ready to stab". They would wait until the last possible moment before needing it, then equip the knife and use it, exactly like quick knife. The only possible scenario where you would want to equip a knife is if, in a direct fight at point blank range, the knife is more powerful than a gun. However, you just said knives should be less powerful than guns (plus there is a melee counter system if someone tries to knife you from the front), so this scenario is out the window.
With quick knife, you don't have the option to be "ready for stabbing," rather you're never ready to stab, so we solve this balance problem. The only remaining argument you have for equippable knife is that a single mouseclick makes the decision-making harder. If it makes a difference, that difference is so small as to be worthless. When someone runs out of ammo, switches to pistol, and continues shooting that's a weapon switch, sighting, aiming, and clicking a dozen times. And yet everyone does it, and I certainly find the first key and right-click automatic. Are you saying key and left click would be different?
Plenty of competent players frequently held the knife "ready to stab" in BF2 and 2142 (that is, they didn't just switch to it only at the exact half-second instant that they needed it, as you describe), and they were damn good at it. But yes, it would take more competence to successfully take the knife out and use it in an instant exactly as effectively as if you had quick knife functionality every single time, and I think the degree to which you're downplaying the extra psychological energy that that requires, regardless of how some well better players would learn to adjust to it, is unrealistic.
Switching to the pistol isn't a comparable situation in most cases specifically because it's a gun. There's more security in it, it's easier to use, and it's all you've got if you've run out of ammo in your other gun, so you're not making as much of a decision there. And even then, the less competent players usually panic and don't use their pistols effectively.
On the other hand, quick knife has little punishment for or restrictions on panicking or not thinking quickly enough (though the counter system in BF3 is certainly a start), and the barrier of entry to acquiring melee OHK's is lowered for the incompetent players, while the more competent players don't have to put in as much effort to set themselves apart. My own experience with BC2 has confirmed this for me. I've been knifed by players that obviously had only used the knife as a reactionary "I win" button, and I've knifed players and felt entirely disatisfied that I didn't even have to try. And it sucks in either case.
That's just my own stance on the situation from my own experience with various Battlefield games over the years. While I would personally prefer if BF3 had only an equippable knife, what they're doing seems like a good middleground - now I can have some measure of defense against spasmodic or overconfident knifers, while also having the option to switch to the knife when I find it to be more optimal than the quick knife.
@roughneck117: Yea i know MOH had stuff l like that, but that was medal of honor. Which is basicly cod + alittle of bf. Now battlefield is supposed to be battlefield, if you know what i mean. Also i was referring to the challenges in cod. Not hating on bf3! i love it and it loosk great.
@big_jon: pfffft. No, if I was going to use an M1 Abrams, I would've said it. I'm going to be using an Abrahms instead. Its a real indie tank, not in the mainstream yet ... I'm not surprised you haven't heard of it. e.e
@big_jon: pfffft. No, if I was going to use an M1 Abrams, I would've said it. I'm going to be using an Abrahms instead. Its a real indie tank, not in the mainstream yet ... I'm not surprised you haven't heard of it. e.e
@JP_Russell: First off, I generally argue under the assumption that I am not some sort of terminator who can react perfectly to every situation. That said, I know I find switching to pistol pretty damn easy, and you cannot say an aimed weapon is easier to use than a lockon knife. I think we might have to just disagree at this point, because I can tell you I have never seen nor scored a knife kill in BC2 from panicked slapping of the keyboard, and I cannot imagine one would happen in Battlefield 3 with even longer windup on quick-knife. I've seen them get kills when used in the correct situations, and get the users killed in the wrong ones.
What I never want to see is the knife ever be a better choice than a loaded, currently equipped weapon (ie, you should never enter combat holding a knife). It's unrealistic and, in my opinion, adds nothing to the game. However, if guns aren't going to carry realistic stopping power, a zero-windup equipped knife plus the sprint key will sometimes be better. I know I'm sick and tired of people running at me, eating bullets like candy and getting the kill anyway, but that's what happens when you put in an equippable knife without windup. I guess you could put a proper windup on the knife even when it's equipped, but now we're getting into the territory of the knife always being the wrong choice for a weapon switch, even when you're in melee range, your primary runs out of ammo, and you have to choose between your pistol and knife. That's what I like about a quick-knife, it offers balance between the overpowered zero-windup equipped knife and the underpowered switching-time + windup-time switch to knife by giving one constant time.
Edit: Ok, did a google search and apparently Battlefield 3 has both quick and selectable knife, and I think from the youtube videos it has quick-grenade as well. Don't really care about this argument anymore.
Maybe the best solution is the Counter Strike knife: Two attacks. One is a quick slash that does about 15-20% damage, the other is a stab with a brief cooldown that does 60-80% damage. I don't like that knife attacks have become instant death dealers. You should have to work for those knife kills.
Maybe that's just my nostalgia-laden CS mindset on the matter.
Oh, PS: equipping a knife should make you run faster. Seriously.
@Donos: Regarding pistols, what I mean is that it's easier to be shooting someone with your primary, run out of ammo, switch to the pistol, and continue shooting them at range with that instead, than it is to round a corner or go through a doorway into an enemy and have to make the split-second decision to switch to the knife and swipe at them without missing (the kind of equippable knife I'm referring to would have no lock-on, same as in older Battlefields, as that would be just as BS to me as the quick knife, unless you put a countering system in like BF3 is doing). You typically have zero room for error in that situation, and the difference between quick knife and equippable knife is astounding, especially once you take less competent players into account. Those kinds of situations in BC2 typically boil down to "whoever pushes the knife button first wins."
It's interesting that you mention the issue of players dashing through a hail of fire to knife a guy in front of them, because that's more of a problem in BC2 for me than it ever was in BF2 or 2142. Guns deal notably less damage per shot in BC2 than in previous Battlefields, and wind-up or no, the combination of the knife being immediately accessible at the push of a button and the lock-on (And is there still a forward dash? Haven't played in a while.) make it much easier to successfully run up to a guy shooting at you and knife him than it ever was before, in my experience.
Anyway, I don't know what games with equippable knives you have experience with; all I know is that I have witnessed lots of easy, cheap knife kills in BC2 that never would have happened in previous Battlefields. I'm not really worried about that in BF3, though. I knew quick knife was in as well as equippable, but with counters in place, the knife will hopefully be relegated pretty strictly to stealth ambush tactics regardless. @mikeeegeee: Non-OHK melee in MP shooters is my least favorite kind, for sure. 2142's knife, aside from hit detection problems, was more or less perfect to me. OHK and much better range than the dinky BF2 knife, but even so, acquiring knife kills against guys with guns took skill, nerve, and smart analysis of the situation and your options in the blink of an eye. Random knife rushers typically got curbstomped before even getting in range.
All equippable knife and grenade does is attach an extra click to the same action, and that's bad design.
I disagree. Instant knife traditionally allows players to get instant, reactionary melee kills without even thinking. I personally feel that that is bad design and didn't find it very fun in BC2 on either side of the knife. An equippable knife typically requires more consideration, wherewithall, and quick thinking in the midst of combat that instant knifing is specifically designed to mitigate.
PC will get both quick and equipable knife (at least thus far both's still in the game), consoles will likely get quick knife and grenades only...
As for reactive knife kills. You'll only get a one-hit kill attacking from the back (as well as the enemy soldier's dog tags). From the front the attacked has a split-second to counter the attack with a button prompt. Also - apparently attacking from the front doesn't deal 100% damage.
Why do people feel they need to add music to their videos? For BETA's I just want to see the gameplay and maybe even the sounds, the music ruins everything.
There's tons of leak videos with in-game sound from the same source. Embedded vids can be found in this thread or at that dudes youtube channel.
@Seppli: Just curious, is the counter an instant kill, or just some sort of block/knockback? I feel like instant kill would be kinda OP, but a knockback might be more difficult to implement. If the knife isn't 100% damage from the front regardless, that also pretty much assuages my fears about equipped knives beating a chest full of bullets.
@Seppli: Just curious, is the counter an instant kill, or just some sort of block/knockback? I feel like instant kill would be kinda OP, but a knockback might be more difficult to implement. If the knife isn't 100% damage from the front regardless, that also pretty much assuages my fears about equipped knives beating a chest full of bullets.
Dunno. Just read as much. Wish I was in Alpha, then I'd know.
how did you get access? lent acoun't or new round of invites? about to go rent all the BF console games to lift my vet rank from 4-8.. have every BF non console game + exp reg already :(
how did you get access? lent acoun't or new round of invites? about to go rent all the BF console games to lift my vet rank from 4-8.. have every BF non console game + exp reg already :(
A friend of a friend got invited a while back (I had no such luck) but his PC couldn't run it. So he sent me the 20 digit key and I entered it under my account in Origin, and whaddya know I now have access to the Alpha :P My vet rank was 4 as well (1942 + all the console games, and Heroes) but apparently I don't get an invite for that haha. No idea what my friends was though.
It's rather good, even if I do suck atm. Everyone else has had waaaay more time with it than me haha, I'm still trying to remain with a positive K/D though. Also, noone has ever managed to get to the second stage of the Rush map so far. The second MCOM in the first outdoor area is so stupidly hard - it's literally in the Defenders spawn >.>
Equipable knife and granades? Is this really what excites BF fans? Why not hope for a great game, and not just a game that isn't COD?
I loved BF2 (one of my fav. pc games of all time) and I'm def. gonna get BF3 (for PC), but this infatuation with something being different, for the sole purpose of it being different comes of as a bit pathetic :-/
You must not have played very much since you obviously don't realize the quite huge impact these two things have on the actual gameplay mechanics.
In my view, the knife should almost never be used... ONLY if you sneak up on someone and they can't notice you, should you get rewarded with a knife kill. Anything that discourages it in a gunfight gets a plus from me.
Firearms are supposed to be way more lethal, being close enough to knife for an instant kill is silly... you can stab someone with maybe 150lb of force, if you're strong and charging at them.
A 5.56mm bullet at point blank range hits with over 600lb of force. A single shot should be like knifing someone four times - at once.
@xobballox: here : <object width="640" height="390"><param name="movie" value="https://www.youtube.com/v/4bGDNwsYXoM?version=3&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="https://www.youtube.com/v/4bGDNwsYXoM?version=3&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="640" height="390" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object> replace your video with that (insert it in the insert -> video window). Oh and, great new video by Usama, thanks for the headsup !
In my view, the knife should almost never be used... ONLY if you sneak up on someone and they can't notice you, should you get rewarded with a knife kill. Anything that discourages it in a gunfight gets a plus from me.
Firearms are supposed to be way more lethal, being close enough to knife for an instant kill is silly... you can stab someone with maybe 150lb of force, if you're strong and charging at them.
A 5.56mm bullet at point blank range hits with over 600lb of force. A single shot should be like knifing someone four times - at once.
Frontal knifing does pretty much nothing, if you come from behind you get the stealth kill animation.
This edit will also create new pages on Giant Bomb for:
Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along
with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely
increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.
Comment and Save
Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other
Giant Bomb users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll
send you an email once approved.
Log in to comment