So streamers have the full Retail English release around the same time as the Japanese release date. Now I don't usually watch streamers or care about spoilers, but Souls is an exception. I like watching how other tackle certain sections differently, and spoilers are more so gameplay related, rather then just pure story.

I now have to gingerly tread around any game related area, and might have already be spoiled on the final boss by a thread title. I haven't watched GBeasts play session either.

It just feels super odd to me to have entire playthroughs available 2-3 weeks before release of the game, especially for a Souls game. In a way Bamco's marketing strategy has me trying to avoid any mention of it's game on the internet. I assume the staggered release is them testing load before the NA market melts the servers, but this streaming situation is just plain odd.

I'm not mad, just feel slightly inconvenienced to have to wear my internet condom.

I don't mind. I've already been looking up whatever information I can on this game already. Even if they didn't provide the early access to streamers, since it's already out in Japan all the information would still have gotten out.

As a spectator whatever, if you're not going to spoil yourself then it doesn't dramatically change anything; the game's functionally out it just exists in a different language. Now as a content creator it probably means I'm going to lose something like $100 just due to them having it so early; but that's more an issue with the split release dates than anything else (why is it split if the English version is already ready?). But ultimately it'll probably still work out okay in the end, also SFV is probably going to carry anyway.

As far as nebulous feelings of streamer loyalty and what not, never feel that way about anyone and you're set; it's a stupid concept to begin with.

I don't really care, just wish I could have been on the list.

Yeah, early access to games is neat. Or even just free copies for review purposes. The biggest annoyance I'll get out of this is how it will effect the community's efforts to figure stuff out. Granted, Bloodborne's mysteries were unraveled almost at birth as well. The idea of streamers finishing it before release, speedrunners already having reliable routes, etc has me slightly irritated.

Why are you irritated? Just don't watch that stuff. I'm interested in Dark Souls 3 as well, but I haven't heard about anything you're talking about nor have I watched any of these YouTube videos, and I'm not going to. Problem solved? It doesn't affect me in any way. In fact I may not have even known about this if it wasn't for people talking about it on GB.

I don't mind it specifically because i am not seeking out this information and don't really visit any other forums at the moment then these ones. So my only exposure has been the GB stream and that was fully voluntary.

As for marketing strategy, releasing games early to streamers is becoming more and more commonplace as a whole. And it's not surprising they are following suit with DS3 seeing as how the internet, videos and streamers were instrumental to the spread of the franchise in the first place.

I don't get it. I avoid spoilers of work in any medium, including shit I may never read/watch/play on the chance that I might some day, but Dark Souls is just not a series I identify as spoilable in any way. Even seeing the title of a thread about the final boss, I just couldn't care. Since when has the name of a boss meant anything at all? Ceaseless Discharge? What the fuck is that? Gwynn? Who the fuck is that? Even if someone said "Gwynn has a sword", I still wouldn't care. DS is just not the kind of game that can be spoiled for me. There are no new mechanics introduced as the game goes on, no obvious story (yes, I know there is a story), just the progressively harder and larger combat. If someone said "The final boss in DSIII is the shopkeeper from Demon's Souls", still...I don't know, I can't quantify why that wouldn't matter at all to me.

I guess ultimately all of the spoilable elements are not intrinsically connected to one another, and can all be swapped out for anything else. The setting, the characters, the weapons, it's all just (extremely cool) dressing for the gameplay, and since that never really varies (not a complaint), there's nothing really to spoil.

I'm not gonna tell anyone how to stop being bothered by this, or how to avoid spoilers, but this is the one spoiler thing that I totally don't understand. A lot of the complaints (not the OP's) around this issue sound to me like, "but I wanna be the guy who adds that to the wiki!!!"

You would actively have to seek out Youtube streamers to have this spoiled for you. So just like, don't do that. How is this different than any media outlet getting pre-release......whatever, and putting it up on their site? Look man, it's just a sign of the times. Where do people go to get impressions on videogames now? It isn't IGN and Gamespot anymore. Also, it's my understanding that they can only stream up until a certain point. This obviously doesn't apply to the JP version.

I think you either have to learn how to avoid spoilers (stop going to video game websites if a big game you're excited about is getting released, and stop checking Twitter), or stop caring/paying attention to it. No amount of discussion or complaint is going to stop spoilers from existing. Besides, my stance is if a thread title can spoil your experience with a game or a movie, maybe it's not that good a game (or movie). I doubt there's even that big a twist. It used to be that spoilers only applied to big plot twists (the Usual Suspects, the Crying Game, and Metal Gear), but now it applies to weapon names and boss patterns. Strange. It can be tough, but I think this is just something we're all going to have to adjust to.

I don't particularly care. The part of the game that I don't want spoiled would require me to go out of my way to see. Boss patterns, weapons, item locations, maps, etc. So other people having the game early isn't a threat to me. I am slightly concerned that some people may try to massacre all of us new players in pvp right away with their extra knowledge, but that's only a minor worry.

As for if I think it's right that some people are getting the game before me just because they have a twitch stream, eh it's alright. I'm used to waiting on blizzard releases, and streamers always get early alpha and beta access to their games. I wish I could play it but I'm not bitter about it. I still have darkest dungeon to play some more.

If it means better advertising for the game then I'm all for it. I love the souls series and want to see the final entry in the series to be as succesfully as possible

I feel nothing.

Well... Clearly the game's done. I kind of wish they'd just go ahead and release it early if they're letting people stream it two weeks in advance.

I think it kind of sucks when you consider the community aspect of what these games have given rise to in the past. That zeitgeist and feeling of discovery is so unique with souls I feel like they're slightly ruining that by giving it to a handful of people early. I mean it probably won't really play a part in the learning process of the community as a whole but I can't help but feel like it's wrong that everyone isn't at the same starting point when they say go! I'm really just bitter that I can't play it yet when it comes down to it though :P

Mainly because I like seeing that process bore out. Watching LobosJr or somebody try and pick apart Salt and Sanctuary has been kind of neat.

But there's been something to undercut that every time. Early copies to a bunch of streamers is more overt but with Japanese versions and exhaustive guides on release day there's been an element of the honor system all along with spoiling content for yourself from the jump.

@shindig: You can still go back and watch your favorite streamers pick apart the game assuming they have a vod service available. Most do in my experience.

I, for some reason, picked up Dark Souls 2 shortly after its release. I started to bang my head against the game and really wasn't sure what I was doing. I'd spot a shortcut, or NPC, or item, and not understand what it did. Then I'd look it up and realize I wasn't the only one in the dark.

Dark Souls games hide a lot of secrets that usually take a community to find and discover. Part of the fun is that group effort to apply each other's knowledge to accomplish something.

So having that effort and spirit taken away from you and only have a walkthrough left to interact with is a big piece of what makes these games special, gone.

It loses something unless its in the moment.

Too many posters are being insultingly dismissive of people who don't like the early stream release.

It could potentialy ruin early pvp and the collective discovery that is part of the wonder of playing a dark souls game is lost as almost everything will be known before anyone normal gets the game.

These things don't bother me too much, but this should help as least explain why some sane people do not like what is happening.

@shindig: *shrugs* I watch non-live content all the time due to being busy during peak streaming hours so I guess it doesn't bother me. But to each their own.

@shindig: You could start a thread here on GB for people who are keeping themselves blind and want to work with other blind runners.

Why would there only be a walkthrough left? A few streamers having access to the game doesn't suddenly mean that all of the community discovery has been eliminated. Look how long it took people to figure out Dark Souls back when it came out and compare that to how many people were streaming that game and writing guides for it.

The only difference here is that some of that community investigative spirit has started a little early. That's all. I'm not even sure how much has been figured out since I'm choosing not to watch this prerelease coverage and go in blind and figure out as much of the the game for myself as I can.

I mean... I feel like this is a moot point. I have Dark Souls 3 on my Xbox one in English right now, and I didn't get it because I'm a youtube streamer - I just downloaded it through the Japanese Xbox store. So even if they hadn't sent out early access copies to streamers, streamers would still have it three weeks early.

Now, I suppose you could take issue with the staggered release, since the localization is clearly already finished, but that's kind of a different conversation. If I had to take a guess, I'm betting we don't get it until April 12th because they want the earnings from the game to count for Q2 instead of Q1. So really, you should be mad at their accounting department.

This morning I tuned in to a Japanese players stream right as he was fighting the final boss, which after what people in the chat claimed to have been "hours" he finally beat and finished the game with one of the endings.

With how obtuse and fragmented the Souls narrative usually is I can honestly say watching this final fight literally spoiled nothing for me. At this point it's more about the journey than the destination I think, at least if you've played one of these before.

I actually kind of like the thought of people getting a good amount of time with the game before me. I'm still mostly avoiding all coverage so that I can experience the game blind but I think it's going to be nice after finishing the game to head over to a wiki and see it completely filled out. No waiting involved when I need to know a particular piece of lore or item location. When I'm done and I'm interested in watching other people play the game, there will already be a plethora of content to indulge on.

Three weeks in advance is a little ridiculous to send out "review" copies to anyone with a modest following on Twitch or Youtube. I get the, "well don't watch anything", but the internet is a very volatile place. It was fun when Dark Souls 2 came out and no one knew a damn thing and everyone could speculate together and share their experiences. But now the importers, streamers, and Xbox cheaters downloaders (not to mention the thousands watching them) will have picked the game apart, created walkthroughs, created metas, and found every little secret and lore bit long before anyone's copy has even shipped. Sure, that might be hyperbole, but three weeks is a long time.

Honestly, I don't care that people have it early. I'm just more annoyed that Bandai Namco doesn't seem to respect their fanbase and is only in it for the big early marketing payoff. It shouldn't annoy me as much as it does, but it does.

Oh wait, the Souls fanbase is awful and deserves zero respect anyway. Yeah, fuck 'em.

Eh, I wasn't into MGS V being streamed ahead of release, either. These days if I watch all the prerelease coverage, by the time I get the game I'm almost tired of it.

Easy solution: avoid these streams.

I don't have an issue with it. I don't get involved in game communities and I can just not watch streams if I don't want things spoiled.

The fan base isn't that bad though they have gotten a whole lot worse their was once a time when the community around these games was really cool but that was a while ago as for Bandai Namco they tend to tap into the worst parts of the perception around the soul games as well as the fan base when it comes to marketing.

As someone who barely participates in the streaming community, and has a lot of willpower, I can hang with this.

I didn't play Dark Souls 1 until late 2012, and waited a month for the PC release of Dark Souls 2. Stayed away from spoilers. When I stream it, only like 2 or 3 people are watching at most, so it's not like I'm getting bombarded with people spoiling the game or telling me what to do.

I mean worse as in there are more people now so there are more assholes and you are more likely to run into them.

But c'mon players of Demon Souls way back when were also more than happy to tell you how wrong and terrible you were playing their game.

Here's the thing.

You probably didn't play Demon Souls on day 1. You probably didn't play Dark Souls on day 1. Maybe Dark Souls 2 and Bloodbourne, but Demons/Dark Souls 1 were still very niche at the time.

Hell, a lot of people only ever got to play Dark Souls 1 when it finally came to PC, years later, well after they assumed it'd never make the jump.

The zeitgeist around Dark Souls 2 was great. And it'll still be great for DS3 on sites like GB, SA, or potentially Reddit/Gaf. Those communities by and large are respectful, and the people who ARE playing now from those communities have mentioned they'll do their best to stay out of early day discussion until everyone catches up. You'll have a few assholes/spoilers up on Reddit I'm sure, but for the most part, that zeitgeist will be maintained.

And even if it isn't, will it really ruin the game? To tie back around to Demon Souls/Dark Souls 1, by the time 90% of Souls players touched them, everything was mapped out. Everything was discovered. Everything was known. It didn't stop people from enjoying the game, it just stopped people from having to wonder what a few of the more obscure/archaic design choices were about.

It's easy to get wound up over this, but the more you think about it, the more it's going to bother you going towards release, and the more it's going to spoil your initial impression of the game.

I don't care about people streaming the game, but as someone who wants to play it it stinks knowing it's already kind of in the public's hands but I can't enjoy it for three more weeks. I know they probably have their reasons and it's effectively the same as review copies, but it just kinda sucks. It streamers got their copies like <1 week from launch this would be a whole different conversation

Whenever there's a game involving community discovery, that hasn't been spoiled, people rave non stop. But in this case in doesn't matter? To me DS is a Action Puzzle game, where I don't want to know enemy placements, or special animation triggers, or the enemies. Falling into a false comfort for just a second, getting ambushed by a heavy archer knocking me off the ledge 20 meters form the next bonfire. Those moments are what DS is to me, and are ingrained in my brain. Think Tomb of Giants with the skeleton bait/kick.

Avoiding streams/videos solves that, but are people watching streams going to be plastering message hints after having spoiled those moments for themselves? There is a big difference in the type of hints from release to post-release window. I think in DS2 I had one mimic hint on release, on second playthrough (1 month after release) and in SotFS every single mimic was marked. All the secret walls were marked, every ambush point was marked. DS online interaction is this delicate balance that really doesn't last past a really short window.

I hope this also doesn't lead to a plethora of min/maxed builds. PVP is a large part of the Souls games especially during release period, when there's large enough numbers of players interacting. So I'd say that release window, where you're fighting all kinds of weird builds, is really fun. More so then the flood of min/max builds later. There will be people min/maxing as soon as they start, but hopefully not many.

I just feel DS is always amazing and at its best, when everyone drops in together and knows jack shit. I think it would of been fine with a week advance, but the almost month long advance release is kinda weird.

@nals: Had a lot of similar thoughts swirling around when reading the topic.

These games don't get fully figured out in just a week or two, plus the number of people playing it is limited, so I'm not worried. I also enjoy the online element, and if I were playing it right now, there would be too few people to enjoy its full potential. So, it's cool. What I am slightly miffed about is the release date. I don't usually get overloaded with work, but it would've still been nice for it to be released on Friday, so I could have a guaranteed uninterrupted weekend of dark soulsing.

I'm on full blackout mode until release date. Gbeast stream of game was awesome, but next time I spend any real time with DS3 I will be playing it.

@nals said:

My thoughts exactly. I couldn't help but wonder how many of the people really upset by this have been able to play on day 1 in the past for every souls game. And to add to what you've said, the PC players of Dark Souls 2 couldn't play day 1 either. They had to wait a month if I remember right. And I'm willing to bet a majority of the player base on PC didn't buy both a console and a PC copy just to be there for when it was completely fresh day 1.

It's a nice idealistic thought for every player to be able to start the game fresh at the same time, but people complaining have to realize it's not something that has happened in the past for a main Souls title and its not happening now. In the long run this difference of a couple weeks is going to feel negligible. Just have to be patient.

It's annoying, but in less than 3 weeks from now it's not going to mean anything. I have no particular drive to watch these streams.

I'm sad I don't get to experience the community discover the game all at once, but otherwise I guess it doesn't affect much. I wouldn't watch a playthrough of a Souls game I haven't beaten anyhow. I just don't understand why there is even a wait if the English text is already done.

I think it is lame for completely selfish reasons. I want the game now and the fact that it is ready yet only select individuals get to play it is shitty.

Don't watch the streamers?

Has there been a single moment in any Souls game that could be accidently spoiled? Are there any memorable single moments in any of the games?

Anyone cares to explain why this wouldn't work? I feel like this should preserve the collective discovery and make sure that those who want to figure out the game at their own pace will be able to do so. I doubt Bandai Namco will agree to release the game early, so this is probably the best next thing.

@hunkulese: I'd say they have plenty of memorable moments. Walking into a boss room for the first time and seeing what it is and it's name, going to Anor Londo for the first time, meeting False King Allant, going under Fire Link Shrine, seeing Sif for the first time. The games have plenty of memorably moments, imo, that would be ruined for me if I knew of them ahead of time.

I love going into the games 100% blind, I've only seen the reveal trailer for DaS3 (and know potentially 2 npcs in the game because of podcasts, sadly). My only complaint about people getting them early is why they don't just release the game already? There's literally no reason to not to, you can dl it from the Japanese XBL and it'll be 100% in English. With it being in peoples hands 100% legitly and not just through some stores breaking street date seems like it'll be more common for people to be talking about them. I just hope I don't accidentally run into anything in the wild.

EDIT: I'm gonna be quite salty if I get invaded by people that have min-max'd their shit quite heavily because they already knew stuff from watching streams.

I would've been upset if it wasn't for the MS screw-up (yes, I'm an asshole). Not because other people were playing it before me or anything like that, but because every time I decided to browse twitch for the next 3 weeks I would have to have garner enough willpower not to check out any of the streams plastered all over the place. While I'm used to the 3+ day wait we usually have here in EU, I'm pretty sure I would've caved eventually after a week or two (yes, I'm an impatient fucker as well) and I'd probably end up watching the majority of the game and spoiling my first playthrough pretty badly.

Spoiling in Souls game is more about learning about secret/item locations and creature behavior. So much of the satisfaction of these games lies within the exploration and discovery mechanics of the game.

Yeah, it's super upsetting. The first few days of a Souls game are amazing, discovering all the weird secrets and stuff. Now all that shit is gonna be known before the game is even released which makes me wonder if I should buy it now or wait till it's 20 bucks.

@crimsonjesus: Salt & Sanctuary is only like $18. Playing that is a great way to avoid DS3 coverage