Your favourite builds and other tips and tricks

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#101 Posted by OmegaDef (18 posts) -

@valjean9430: Sorry if I made it sound like that was the only optimal build. I just wanted to point out the hidden scaling to anyone who didn't already know. 8/7/13 is the point right before diminishing returns starts. After that is when you'll need to make give/take decisions, which you are never informed of. Even then, it's definitely more nuanced than, hidden scaling=bad.

In the end, the ideal I came to for myself is pictured above. And while I could be killed in a couple hits, the trade off was being able to drop turrets that melted everything literally every other second. If I had that build on my first couple of runs on the game, I would've died early on. It took knowing the game well enough to avoid most damage before that became a viable strategy for me.

At this point I would never go 8/7/13, but it took going that route first for me to finally survive long enough against HotK to learn how to not get hit.

And I couldn't agree more. Promenade, Prison Depths, Ossuary, Black Bridge is the way to go. After getting "acceptance" I don't ever want to see the Forgotten Sepulcher again. It's like "Drowning in Sonic 2: The Level".

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#102 Edited by Sweetz (1167 posts) -

I can't claim origination of this, but for anyone looking for a way to completely cheese HotK, I tried this out and it totally works:

Double up on the Wings of Crow (aka Crow Feather) item, get the Tranquility mutation (lower skill cooldown), and then level up Tactics (purple) to 12+.

If you're not familiar with Wings of the Crow, it makes you hover above the ground and shoot lightning down for 4 seconds. With Tranquility and high levels of Tactics, the cooldown will be well under 8 seconds, meaning that with two of them, you can basically always have one active.

It doesn't do a ton of damage, but a lot of the enemy AI, including HotK, can be easily "confused" by a flying playing character. Basically, you can hover directly on top of HotK's face and he'll just flip back and forth trying to face you and won't attack. So apart from the few times he spawns in other enemies, you can attack him with pretty much zero chance of getting hit.

Even though the DPS is relatively low, it doesn't even take that long to beat him, since you're basically doing damage the entire time. Makes the fight trivially easy. What's funny is that does, however, make the High Castle level a bit harder. A lot of the enemies there are better equipped to deal with a flying player (especially the guys that shoot the energy projectiles) and giving up your grenade/trap slots to hold two Wings of the Crow does hurt a little. Ice bow helps a ton for dealing with that level.

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#103 Edited by ValJean9430 (189 posts) -

@omegadef: No sorrys needed. I found your post very informative. I am curious about the math to back up the 8/7/13 and other potential factors. Would "dead inside" allow you to get in a few more levels of any scroll but still have the same damage % as an 8/7/13? How do the bonuses from weapons, both damage output increase and damage resistance affect this? At what scroll point would the enemy dps be the same with a damage reduction of 75% to a 8/7/13 with no damage reduction?

I searched some of the wiki's and steam message boards looking into some of these factors, and curiously I found that while most of the character scaling was "math'd out" there was still some confusion on the formula used to determine enemy dps per character level. One factor hadn't really been sussed out that had to do with enemy base factor or something. I wonder if enemies intrinsically gain health/dps just by being on a higher level biome? Seems like that would be easy to test....

BRB

------------

Ok Im back. I tested against a zombie using assault shield in both starting level and promenade, never picking up scroll or buff (1/1/1) in either. Assault shield let me measure both the magnitude of the enemies attack and their total health as I would add up the damage the shield did to them until they died. The total health numbers will be a bit higher than their actual health as the last attack they take doesn't display what the actual amount of health they have left is (for example if they are at 5 health but the attack that kills them is 24, it will still display 24). As a result I got a range of numbers, and even after averaging them they will still be high. I'm stuck with this cause I'm doing my testing on the switch version. ANYWHO....

Health of zombie in first level is around 135, regular damage dealt is around 10, crit is around 20

Health of zombie in promenade is around 180, regular damage dealt is around 20, crit is around 40.

So this is a bit more complicated than simple enemy leveling based on played level.

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#104 Posted by moondogg (361 posts) -

Hmm, cheers peeps some good tips. I shall continue to smash my head against that wall!

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#105 Posted by moondogg (361 posts) -

@sweetz said:

I can't claim origination of this, but for anyone looking for a way to completely cheese HotK, I tried this out and it totally works:

Double up on the Wings of Crow (aka Crow Feather) item, get the Tranquility mutation (lower skill cooldown), and then level up Tactics (purple) to 12+.

If you're not familiar with Wings of the Crow, it makes you hover above the ground and shoot lightning down for 4 seconds. With Tranquility and high levels of Tactics, the cooldown will be well under 8 seconds, meaning that with two of them, you can basically always have one active.

It doesn't do a ton of damage, but a lot of the enemy AI, including HotK, can be easily "confused" by a flying playing character. Basically, you can hover directly on top of HotK's face and he'll just flip back and forth trying to face you and won't attack. So apart from the few times he spawns in other enemies, you can attack him with pretty much zero chance of getting hit.

Even though the DPS is relatively low, it doesn't even take that long to beat him, since you're basically doing damage the entire time. Makes the fight trivially easy. What's funny is that does, however, make the High Castle level a bit harder. A lot of the enemies there are better equipped to deal with a flying player (especially the guys that shoot the energy projectiles) and giving up your grenade/trap slots to hold two Wings of the Crow does hurt a little. Ice bow helps a ton for dealing with that level.

Can confirm this works, and is cheap as hell.

Went good portion of that run with one wing and a toxic cloud, then got a second wing in the castle, thought I'd give this a crack. Quite a cheesey way to beat HOTK for the first time. Oh well. Weapons were the hokuto's bow, and pyrotechnic.

Avatar image for omegadef
#106 Posted by OmegaDef (18 posts) -

@valjean9430:

Good questions. I had been thinking about all that too. Especially how say, a 4++ starting weapon would change things. I’m still not even sure about how boss cells affect things. And to complicate it further, I had read somewhere there may be more than one version of an enemy type (HP and DPS) on the same biome. That could be from early access information though, it’s hard to tell sometimes. I can’t say I’ve ever noticed that, but it’s not the kind of thing I really would notice. I didn’t start playing until the PS4 version.

I went back and did a 4 boss cell run. This is going to sound weird, but it was the easiest run I did. It’s still really hard, but I was extra careful, and I had what felt like a once in a lifetime build. I beat the Concierge and the Time Keeper flawlessly in seconds. I don’t care about trophies, but that was cool. I got to HotK, and he took his mandatory opening swing at me, and never even attacked me again. I had him down to less than half health, he sent out elites, and they got vaporized. He immediately sent out second wave elites, they got vaporized, then he died a few seconds later. The fight lasted about 20 seconds. I would never have attempted to beat him flawlessly on purpose, but it happened effortlessly.

Like I said, I don’t care about trophies, but after that, I went ahead and spent yesterday cleaning up and getting the platinum.

I had my ups and downs with this game. If I had stopped playing after the first HotK victory, I would have walked away not liking the hidden scaling. It took doing everything to really appreciate that this must have been a very difficult game to balance. It felt like a bell curve, and I was frustrated with being in the middle. Once I got to the other side, it was a cake walk.

Here’s the dream build I used to beat 4 boss cells. And funny enough, it was the run I finally got the invisibility amulet. 300 or so games, and I only saw it twice.

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#107 Posted by OmegaDef (18 posts) -
No Caption Provided

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#108 Posted by inevpatoria (7436 posts) -

I find myself not wanting to dual-bow but really only finding reliable success via dual-bowing. That Ice Bow and its damage reduction perk are just too good.

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#109 Posted by terminallychill (100 posts) -

@omegadef: How did you find so many scrolls? I usually only finish with 20 or so, were you just really meticulous in searching all the areas? Or do the optional zones have more scrolls?

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#110 Posted by OmegaDef (18 posts) -

@terminallychill: I prefer to go Prisoners' Quarters, Promenade, Prison Depths, Ossuary, Black Bridge, Stilt Village, Clock Tower... That way you hit the most areas. I take my time, so I never hit timed doors. I always kill every enemy/elite and pick up every cursed chest and challenge ruin. I'll buy a scroll if I see one and it's cheap, but late game I may take the curse over paying for one.

Nine of those scrolls above came from weapons/amulet, which is above the average of what I'd normally get.

I also think it may have something to do with that specific run being on 4 boss cells.

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#111 Posted by terminallychill (100 posts) -

@omegadef: Sweet, thanks for the tips! I'm still on the first boss run but I'm going to try out your path. I have all the movement runes already, I just keep choking after getting the Hand down to 1/4 health. I'm sure some extra DPS would go a long way.

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#112 Posted by Ben_H (4187 posts) -

Just about beat the boss yesterday. I got legendary throwing knives that spread bleeding when an enemy died, a legendary hakuto bow that created a poison cloud when it hit a target and created a flame trail, and two turrets, one in which did damage to fire and another that did bonus damage to bleeding targets. In densely populated areas, I could clear most of the screen by killing one enemy since everything would spread. It was pretty funny. The entire build was damage over time, never actually attacking. I got both keys in the castle without taking any damage. It was my first attempt against the final boss so I had no idea what I was doing, but I still almost beat it. I'll get it soon I'm sure.

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#113 Posted by tunaburn (2074 posts) -

jeez man I have been playing for a while now and I see these builds with weapons doing tens of thousands of DPS while the most I have ever had does like 700.... wtf am i doing wrong?

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#114 Edited by JonDo (194 posts) -

i am both bad with the shield when it gets intense (when you need it) but get murdered without one every single time

not that that means NOONE can pull off dual weapon / ranged / etc builds but, it was funny to listen to the bombcast iirc sounding like "well i never take shields..." and "then i get mobbed later on" XD

I am really fond of the impaler and the wrenching whip with the bastion or cudgel shields.

Avatar image for moondogg
#115 Posted by moondogg (361 posts) -

@tunaburn: I think they're second/third/etc playthrough weapons?

I'm still only on second.

I can get to HOTK on the reg, not sure I could ever beat him without the cheeze method of the dual crow feathers though.

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#116 Posted by moondogg (361 posts) -

Got there again, two feathers, one boss cell, third health bar and one drink left, he gives me two overheads and I'm toast. Unlocked the death orb though, so... cool.

I really like Deadcells and want to keep playing, but man, HOTK is just so much harder than everything else. I might have reached my end point.

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#117 Edited by moondogg (361 posts) -

Did it, 2nd run done. Managed to get a good stack of damage reductions, then got a yellow electric whip (edit. it was a charge beam thing, not a whip) with a stat bonus of 100% damage, without the taking bonus damage. Tanked him out only using one health charge.

Oh, and in case anyone forgets. L3+R3, in the throne room. I wonder just how many people have quit out of successful runs because they think something has gone wrong.

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